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Topic Title: Addressing Phenom Overheating with a Stock Heatsink/Fan
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Created On: 08/04/2008 09:33 PM
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 08/04/2008 09:33 PM
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Superhal
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Posts: 547
Joined: 08/02/2008

A lot of people are having issues with Phenoms overheating when used with the stock AMD heatsink and fan (HSF). A very common problem is that the CPU voltage has been set incorrectly by your motherboard Bios. This article is a step-by-step guide to adjusting core voltage for the Phenom processor to prevent overheating with the stock HSF.

Step 1: Get the proper measuring tools.
There are three programs that you will need:
Speedfan: www.almico.com/speedfan.php
Core Temp: www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/
Your graphics card's manufacturer's utility to read the graphics card processor's (GPU's) temperature. For Nvidia cards, this is the Nvidia System Monitor utility that comes separately or packaged with Ntune: www.nvidia.com/object/system_monitor.html.

Step 2: Install the 3 programs and figure out what the heck is what.
There is one main temperature that you need to identify: the Core temperature (also known as TCaseMax.) In AMD chips, there is a special diode inside the chip that measures the cpu's temperature with perfect accuracy. However, motherboards come with another thermostat that sits under the chip (also called TjunctionMax). This temperature does not tell you what the chip's temperature really is, and is often confused with Core Temperature. To add to this confusion, your motherboard may have a host of other thermostats that are reading temperatures from all over the place. You may need to get other utilities that read other thermostats just to eliminate them.
(For more information about reading CPU temps, this article is more detailed but technical: www.overclockers.com/articles1378/index02.asp).

On my computer (AMD Phenom X4 9750, Asus M3A motherboard), Speedfan will give a temperature summary like this:

Temp1: 54C
Temp2: 38C
Temp3: 25C
Core: 47C
Core: 54C
Ambient: 0C

After using the other 2 programs (along with utilities that came with my Asus board,) I was able to interpret this chart as:

Temp1: Tjunction
Temp2: Motherboard
Temp3: Ambient
Core: CPU
Core: GPU
Ambient: N/A (although it would be extremely cool if I could make my computer an ice machine.)

Step 3: Figure out if your computer does have a heating problem or not
While this may sound counterintuitive, idle temperature doesn't matter one bit. What you are worried about is maximum operating temperature under a sizeable load. At this point, run the program that is causing your computer to overheat which brought you to this article in the first place. As a general rule, silicon begins to become unstable at 60C, and could become damaged at 70C or higher. Therefore, most Phenom chips are set for emergency shutoff at 61C. If your computer idles at 30C, it won't matter if it shoots up to 75C in 30 seconds. Conversely, if your computer idles at 50C, it won't matter if it maxes out at 55C after 1 hour at 100% load.

If you don't have any suitable program, you can download SisSoftware's Sandra benchmarking tool at: www.sisoftware.net.

Another rule of thumb is that if your voltage is set at 1.25v or higher without overclocking, there's a good chance the voltage is set incorrectly. Out of the box, the stock factory setting for my 9750 on the Asus M3A was 1.33v.

Step 4: Adjust your CPU's voltage
If your computer overheats too quickly, and doesn't level out, it is very likely that the core voltage is set too high. Check Vcore1 voltage in Speedfan. It should be in the bottom of the opening screen. If this number is greater than 1.20v or 1.30v, we need to adjust this to be lower. First, check your CPU's voltage at: products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUFilter.aspx. If you aren't sure which processor you have, download CpuInfo at: www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_871_15259,00.html. CpuInfo is also useful to check if you've lost performance by changing the voltage.

Then, get into your computer's Bios. Hopefully, at this point, you've flashed your Bios with the most updated version of the software. If not, you can find motherboard-specific instructions online. Get into your computer's Bios. As a precaution, we'll turn off Cool n' Quiet at this point. (Cool n' Quiet is special cpu-specific instructions that allow functionality [and thus power consumption] to decrease during idle times.) Find "Cool n' Quiet" in your Bios, and set it to "off" or "disabled." Also, set ACPI 2.0 support to "disabled." This will prevent Cool n' Quiet from messing with our readings.

Then, find the voltage settings. On my motherboard, it's under "Advanced" -> "JumperFree Configuration." Set "Processor Voltage" to "Manual," or just keep playing around with "Auto" and "Manual" settings until you are able to adjust processor voltage.

If you found your recommended processor voltages at amd.com above, you should have an idea of the minimum voltage your CPU requires. However, experimentation has found that the recommendations at amd.com are inaccurate. Some chips require more, other chips require less. This won't matter for us. We can change the voltage without harming the computer even if we set it too low. Also, this technique is not meant for overclocked chips. Keep the clock speeds at default or factory settings.

Now, you have to do these steps repeatedly until you figure out the minimum voltage for your processor:

1. Adjust the voltage.
2. Save and exit Bios.
3. See if Windows will boot.
4. If Windows does not boot, repeat with a higher voltage.

On my computer, a voltage setting of 1.115v will result in an actual core voltage of 1.14v. It may take some experimentation to figure out the difference between the Bios setting and the actual voltage.

Also, note that at amd.com, my chip has 2 versions, a 95W and a 125W. However, my setting of 1.14v fits neither one's minimum recommended voltage. Therefore, I think the recommended voltage is merely a ballpark figure, and varies widely because of binning procedures. Your chip is probably the same.

Step 5: Computer's stable, now what?

Now that you've set your computer to the minimum voltage, let's check to make sure that you are receiving the performance you are supposed to receive.

First, check to make sure that all other voltages are the same in Speedfan. If the non-Vcore1 voltages are different, it's very likely you have Cool n' Quiet activated. Deactivate it for now by going to Display Properties -> Screen Saver -> Power and setting the Power Scheme to "Home/Office Desk."

On my chip, the voltages look like this:
Vcore1: 1.14v
Vcore2: 3.30v (Note: some programs will label this voltage as +3.30v. It doesn't matter. One of your voltage readings should be 3.30v.)
+3.3v: 0.00v (this number must have been labled Vcore2 above.)
+5v: 5.00v
+12v: 11.71v

Here are the same numbers with Cool n' Quiet activated:
Vcore1: 1.06v
Vcore2/+3.30v: 3.30v
+5v: 4.97v
+12v: 11.78v

Then, check CpuInfo and make sure all cores are working at the right mhz. They should all be the same. On my computer, all cores are working at 2400 mhz. However, with Cool n' Quiet activated, three of the cores will switch to 50% speed.

Then, start up Sandra, and run one of the CPU processor benchmarks. You can leave Speedfan open at this time, and it may be a good idea to also open Speedfan's temperature charts to monitor your Core and Tjunction temps during the test.

During the test, the behavior you should see is a slow, steady temperature rise that peaks at around 55-56C core temperature. Tjunction temperature may rise past 60C, but this will not harm the chip. Also, you may notice that idle temperature is the same or even higher. This is normal too.

Here are the results for my chip after voltage adjustment:
Temp.......Safe Range*........Max*........Full Load, Sandra.....Idle
Tjunct........<75C.............115C.............63C.......................53C
Core..........<60C.............61-65C..........53C.......................46C
*from amd.com.

And that's it!

If your processor is still overheating after these steps, it is possible that there is something else wrong with the computer, HSF, ventilation, or thermostats. However, this should fix the issue of a computer that overheats too quickly under minimal loads with a properly installed HSF.

-------------------------

9750 X4 // 8600 GT // PC-6400 DDR2 800 mhz 1gig X 2 // WD 500 GB SATA HD // 580w PSU // Core Contact Freezer w/ IC Diamond 7 // DVD-RW // Win XP 32 bit // CPU-Z Validation #420180

Edited: 08/10/2008 at 04:46 PM by Superhal
 08/04/2008 10:08 PM
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Superhal
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Posts: 547
Joined: 08/02/2008



Here's a screenshot of Speedfan's temperature chart for the core temperature. The three peaks represent Sandra's Processor Arithmetic, Processor Muti-Media, and Multi-Core Efficiency benchmarks run back-to-back-to-back. The beginning part of the chart shows idle temperature.

-------------------------

9750 X4 // 8600 GT // PC-6400 DDR2 800 mhz 1gig X 2 // WD 500 GB SATA HD // 580w PSU // Core Contact Freezer w/ IC Diamond 7 // DVD-RW // Win XP 32 bit // CPU-Z Validation #420180
 08/05/2008 08:19 AM
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rpgguy
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Posts: 7
Joined: 08/03/2008

Ill just confirm this works for those of you that might be skeptic, it lowered my cpu idle temp by 3-5c and it doesnt go past 55c in stress anymore (I had a overheating phenom 9500 that would cause the computer to power down when it reached 61c).
Someone should give this guy a medal and hire him at AMD.

-------------------------
Overheating problems with your AMD Phenom on the Stock HeatSink??

Then read this; http://forums.amd.com/forum/me...8342&enterthread=y

And dont forget to say thank you to Superhal after :-)
 08/21/2008 04:01 PM
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sparky90210
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Joined: 08/21/2008

phenoms typically work at 45-48 with stock HSF on full load if your case is well ventilated. 50+ is way too high imho.
 08/30/2008 03:47 PM
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Ahmad Rady
Junior Member

Posts: 3
Joined: 08/30/2008

Thanks very much I am sorry its old word but this what I know


Then Mr sparky90210

Not All AMD Phenoms runs at this temp there is an issue in Phenom Structure So there is diffrent temps for it on every mother board and AMD Should Fix this issue soonly or it will be down be the temp of Intel Quad Core 2.4 at 1066 on 8 Mb cash I own its temp 34 on normal fan and Q965, Q35 Mother Board

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Phenom 9500 X4 On ASUS M3A32-MVP Deluxe WiFi // Kingston 1 GB 800 PC 6400 (x2) // WD 250 SATA2 7200 RPM 8 Mb Cash // A open case with HEC 480 watt // 7800 GT Extreme //Windows XP Professional SP3 32 BIT
 10/13/2008 11:09 AM
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bamflpn18
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Joined: 10/12/2008

Superhal, that was fantastic, thanks. The board set to stock was running the vcore @ 1.34ish. Tried setting it down to 1.1's, but either OS wouldn't even boot, or running prime95 would freeze system after the first couple of minutes. Right now have it set at 1.2, idles around 43-45, at load around 58-59ish....10 degree difference on both ends....not exactly super cool, but I'll take it for now, as long as it stays stable for the wife.....
 10/17/2008 03:20 AM
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Camor
Junior Member

Posts: 4
Joined: 10/17/2008

Hi thanks for the write up, but I'm having some problems.
This is my first time building a computer from scratch so please bare w/ me some newbie questions .

My setup is currently:
Windows Vista 64bit
AMD Phenoms Quad 9850 BE
ASUS M2N-SLI NVIDIA nForce560 SLI
ULTRA LSP550 550W power supply
Visiontek Radeon HD4850
OCZ SLI 2x1024MB PC6400 DDR2 800MHz
OCZ Platinum Rev 2 2x1024MB PC6400 DDR2 800MHz (total of 4gb ram)
WD Caviar 500GB serial ATA HD

The most recent addition is a CPU fan by coolmaster Hyper 212 which replaced Thermaltake A4022 TR2=R1 CPU fan.

This is a fresh system about 1 week old. I was planing on overclocking this baby (don't know how but trying to read up as much info as can), so I started running some tests such as Prime95. Now with the stock setting I was getting the error message pretty much couple minutes into the test and now even the blue screen. I suspect that its a voltage setting and followed the above guide (great write up). The problem I'm having now is that after i adjusted CPU voltage from bios to 1.125 SpeedFan still detects Vcore at 1.30. The ASUS monitor also confirms Vcore of 1.30 after the change in bios. The Vcore doest drop to 1.26 from time to time when I run Prime95. However this is still causing Prime95 to crash. The exact error message when vista rebooted is this:

oblem signature:
Problem Event Name: BlueScreen
OS Version: 6.0.6001.2.1.0.768.3
Locale ID: 1033

Additional information about the problem:
BCCode: 101
BCP1: 0000000000000031
BCP2: 0000000000000000
BCP3: FFFFFA6001763180
BCP4: 0000000000000002
OS Version: 6_0_6001
Service Pack: 1_0
Product: 768_1

Files that help describe the problem:
C:\Windows\Minidump\Mini101608-06.dmp
C:\Users\Kobe\AppData\Local\Temp\WER-29156-0.sysdata.xml
C:\Users\Kobe\AppData\Local\Temp\WERAFBE.tmp.version.txt

Read our privacy statement:
">http://go.microsoft.co...ink.....lcid=0x0409


I'm at stock setting for everything right now, trying to make the computer stable. Any help is appreciated!

Oh I flashed the bios with the newest update.

EDIT: From bios at the hardware monitor page, it also shows Vcore at 1.29 and with the option of 1.29 or ignore. I'm not sure if this means anything.

EDIT2: I noticed couple things,1 is my RAM should be 800MHr but cpuz shows it at 400MHr. I tried to change it in bios but the DDR voltage only allows me to go 1.95 as max where I think I need to give it 2.1V. I also just ran Prime95 again and 1 of the 4 tests stopped first and SpeedFan showed a spike of 250c!

Edited: 10/17/2008 at 04:21 AM by Camor
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