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Topic Title: Dual socket Phenom II motherboard?
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Created On: 02/21/2009 03:18 PM
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 09/05/2010 06:12 PM
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Xajel
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AMD already tried this with 4x4 and it wasn't that successfull for several reasons ( based on old arch., ECC required, expensive, limited mobo support ) so I don't think they will make it again...

if you want more, then having some single socket G34 mobo will be better option if AMD will make a desktop version of Magny-Cours, this will allow 12 - 16 cores CPU in single socket configuration.. and AMD should drop the ECC requirement too along with making the chip faster and cheaper than it's server version... then we may have the real Core i7 kick a55 here... just imagine 12-16 Bulldozer cores running at 2.8 - 3.2GHz with Quad channel of DDR3-1600 !! that will be a dream !!
 02/15/2011 06:05 PM
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YiuKorochko
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I'm just about to switch from an Intel i5 to the AMD Phenom II x6 Black Edition (overclocking to 4GHz and liquid cooling), got it for only $199.99!

I sure as heck would love two of these in one system...I'm an After Effects/Maya/Gamer/Video Compressor.

I've developed a PERFECT compression algorithm for the x264 video encoder, and it would get some serious juice from a dual-socket setup...would have loved a dual-socket Xeon Octo-Core workstation, but I'm just a poor college student, and can't afford 4K a socket. xD

But yes, for video compression of PURE effects, raw processing power is very very valuable...

Woopsie...necro-ing...

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 02/15/2011 08:12 PM
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MU_Engineer
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Originally posted by: YiuKorochko

I'm just about to switch from an Intel i5 to the AMD Phenom II x6 Black Edition (overclocking to 4GHz and liquid cooling), got it for only $199.99!

I sure as heck would love two of these in one system...I'm an After Effects/Maya/Gamer/Video Compressor.

I've developed a PERFECT compression algorithm for the x264 video encoder, and it would get some serious juice from a dual-socket setup...would have loved a dual-socket Xeon Octo-Core workstation, but I'm just a poor college student, and can't afford 4K a socket. xD

But yes, for video compression of PURE effects, raw processing power is very very valuable...

Woopsie...necro-ing...


Have you looked at the Opteron 4100 and 6100 CPUs? The Opteron 4100s are four- and six-core CPUs that can be run in two-socket setups and are not that much more expensive than similar Phenom II X4 and X6 models. The Opteron 4180 is the best buy of the 4100 line as it is a 2.6 GHz six-core costing about $190. The Opteron 6100s are 8- and 12-core CPUs that can be run in up to four-socket configurations. An 8-core 2.0 GHz Opteron 6128 costs $270, so two of them and a decent dual G34 motherboard will cost you right under a grand. My two 6128s are some serious medicine for video encoding as 16 cores chews through any video with an even moderately-threaded encoder. If yours is as perfect as you say it is, it ought to absolutely fly on those chips.

If you want a huge amount of power for heavily-multithreaded applications, get four 6128s and a motherboard like Supermicro's H8QGi. That's 32 cores for about $2000, or in better terms, half of what just an 8-core Xeon X7560 goes for (not even counting the motherboard) but around three times the performance. Not bad, huh?

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 02/15/2011 09:01 PM
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MU_Engineer
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Originally posted by: Xajel

AMD already tried this with 4x4 and it wasn't that successfull for several reasons ( based on old arch., ECC required, expensive, limited mobo support ) so I don't think they will make it again...


The QuadFX/4x4 was a flop mostly because of Windows XP's shortcomings and idiot benchmarkers who had obviously never used anything remotely resembling the 4x4 before. The 4x4 was basically an overclockable Opteron 2200 setup and thus used NUMA for handling memory allocation like all other multi-socket Opteron setups. Windows XP has very poor support for NUMA thread scheduling and bounces threads between CPUs and forces a bunch of remote memory accesses, reducing performance. The idiot reviewers didn't know to turn on NUMA node interleaving to automatically stripe memory data between the two nodes to mostly alleviate the performance hit of Windows XP's horrible NUMA support. Thus, you got situations where programs ran much faster with only one FX-70 installed instead of two, since the second CPU being installed activated NUMA and you got the threads bouncing between CPUs and racking up remote memory accesses.

The rest of the issues you list are either only minor reasons or flat-out wrong. The 4x4 did NOT require special memory; it used standard unbuffered desktop memory.

I also think you are confusing registered memory with ECC memory. Registered memory is what servers used to require and is not interchangeable with unbuffered (non-registered) memory as it has different signal and electrical characteristics. Desktops cannot use registered memory, they only use unbuffered memory. ECC is an optional feature that can be implemented on either registered or unbuffered memory. ECC is an optional feature on RAM that can be ignored if not supported by the CPU/chipset and turned off if you want to. You can freely mix ECC and non-ECC RAM of similar types and it will run. You cannot "turn off" anything to use registered memory in a system that only supports unbuffered memory.

Desktop memory is always unbuffered memory and is usually non-ECC since non-ECC memory modules are slightly less expensive. You can use either unbuffered non-ECC memory or unbuffered ECC memory in your desktop motherboard and it will work the same. If you are running a CPU that does not recognize ECC functions like the Intel Core i-series, the ECC functions will be ignored and your ECC memory will run like non-ECC memory. If you run a CPU that does recognize ECC functions like most AMD desktop CPUs and all server chips, it will be able to use the ECC functions in the ECC memory unless you go into the BIOS and tell it not to, then it that case it will ignore the ECC and function like non-ECC memory.

Server memory typically was always registered memory, since the register buffering allowed for greater memory capacities to be used. All registered memory being sold and ECC since it's a server and ECC adds to stability, but you could make registered non-ECC memory if you wanted to and it would work in those servers.

If you want more, then having some single socket G34 mobo will be better option if AMD will make a desktop version of Magny-Cours, this will allow 12 - 16 cores CPU in single socket configuration..


AMD will not make a desktop version of the Socket G34 CPUs. There are single-socket G34 boards like the Supermicro H8SGL that you can use as desktop motherboards, but they are server boards and lack things like a forest of USB ports, onboard sound, PCB colors other than green, and any overclocking ability.

and AMD should drop the ECC requirement too along with making the chip faster and cheaper than it's server version...


The Magny-Cours Opterons as well as the four and six-core Opteron 4100s no longer require registered server memory. They can run on unbuffered desktop memory or registered server memory. I run mine with unbuffered memory since it's less expensive and faster than registered memory.

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 03/30/2011 09:41 PM
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YiuKorochko
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Originally posted by: MU_Engineer
Originally posted by: YiuKorochkoI'm just about to switch from an Intel i5 to the AMD Phenom II x6...I sure as heck would love two of these in one system...for video compression of PURE effects, raw processing power is very very valuable...
Have you looked at the Opteron 4100 and 6100 CPUs? The Opteron 4100s are four- and six-core CPUs that can be run in two-socket setups and are not that much more expensive than similar Phenom II X4 and X6 models. The Opteron 4180 is the best buy of the 4100 line as it is a 2.6 GHz six-core costing about $190. The Opteron 6100s are 8- and 12-core CPUs that can be run in up to four-socket configurations. An 8-core 2.0 GHz Opteron 6128 costs $270, so two of them and a decent dual G34 motherboard will cost you right under a grand. My two 6128s are some serious medicine for video encoding as 16 cores chews through any video with an even moderately-threaded encoder. If yours is as perfect as you say it is, it ought to absolutely fly on those chips. If you want a huge amount of power for heavily-multithreaded applications, get four 6128s and a motherboard like Supermicro's H8QGi. That's 32 cores for about $2000, or in better terms, half of what just an 8-core Xeon X7560 goes for (not even counting the motherboard) but around three times the performance. Not bad, huh?
By George...this has to be a hoax...by next year I'll have at least 32 cores and hopefully +64GB RAM...now for the ATI FirePro GPUs to become one with their CPU brethren...however there is an incredible price jump between 6128 and 617x...must be significantly better!

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 03/30/2011 09:53 PM
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MU_Engineer
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Originally posted by: YiuKorochko

By George...this has to be a hoax...by next year I'll have at least 32 cores and hopefully +64GB RAM...now for the ATI FirePro GPUs to become one with their CPU brethren...however there is an incredible price jump between 6128 and 617x...must be significantly better!


Not a hoax, that really is an 8-core CPU for that price. I know, I have two of those exact same CPUs and they cost me US$275 each from an American retailer, which is pretty close to the GBP191 that your UK site quotes. (We don't have VAT here.)

The price jump between the 6128 and the 617x series CPUs comes from the fact that all of the Opteron 6100s use the exact same dies (meaning that all CPUs could have up to 12 cores) and the CPUs are sorted from most expensive to least expensive based on how many watts they dissipate compared to their performance. (They are sorted this way because you can be assured of a higher yield of lower-efficiency CPUs from a batch of silicon than you can high-efficiency ones.) The 6128 has four of the 12 cores turned off and has the lowest performance per watt of the entire Opteron 6100 line, so it will naturally be the cheapest. The 12-core units consume the same power as the 8-core ones, so they require higher-binned silicon to allow them to have all 12 cores on and not use more power than the 8-core units. The HE units also require higher-binned silicon than the standard-wattage units, so they are also more expensive.

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 03/31/2011 11:57 AM
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YiuKorochko
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Originally posted by: MU_Engineer
Not a hoax...expensive.

Yeah I'm from the US, tax been stuck at 6% since day one...21% over here.
I usually try to buy in the USA but the case for an Opteron 48 core setup sized case I'd have to buy it over here instead...

Realistically, I think my college loan will only be able to go up to $3K (after conversion), and I need to buy an entirely new computer (maybe keep my wireless card, extra FireWire etc) so yeah...any suggestions for finding 4 socket MBs? I've only been able to find 2 socket MBs while Googling.

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 04/01/2011 04:35 PM
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MU_Engineer
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Here are some to look for:
- TYAN S8812
- Supermicro H8QGi
- Supermicro H8QG6

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 04/01/2011 06:12 PM
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PorscheRacer14
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I'm guessing by fall we should start seeing the bulldozer refresh of socket G34 & C32 backplanes... At least I'm hoping so

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 04/01/2011 06:37 PM
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MU_Engineer
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I doubt there will be much of a refresh. Current G34 and C32 motherboards support Bulldozer and C2012/G2012 are supposed to be considerably different from a platform standpoint, so there's no real reason to make an entirely new design just for Bulldozer version 1.0. You might see a respin of existing boards with validated DDR3-1600 support, but it will be the same SR56x0/SP5100 platform underneath.

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 04/01/2011 06:52 PM
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PorscheRacer14
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I was kind of hoping to see some PCIe 3.0 goodness show up on some boards by then. There's no rush for me yet, so I guess just wait and see what turns up by then. Then again, a refreshed chipset and voila, good to go.

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 04/26/2011 11:21 AM
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YiuKorochko
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Arg I need a GPU and I can't even find a dual-socket G34 with PCI-E and like...3 PCI slots. Either that or a Dual socket AM3 but I'm pretty sure they don't exist yet...I'd rather get a single 12 core Opteron than 2 Phenom II x6...

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 04/27/2011 07:23 AM
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MU_Engineer
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Originally posted by: YiuKorochko

Arg I need a GPU and I can't even find a dual-socket G34 with PCI-E and like...3 PCI slots. Either that or a Dual socket AM3 but I'm pretty sure they don't exist yet...I'd rather get a single 12 core Opteron than 2 Phenom II x6...


Dual-socket AM3 will never exist as Socket AM3 does not have the I/O capability to support multiple CPU operation. The closest thing to the Phenom II X6s that can be run in dual-CPU operation would be the Opteron 4100s. Those are four and six-core CPUs that are similar to the 95 watt and below Phenom II X4s and X6s and fit in Socket C32.

As far as PCI slots go, there aren't many standard desktop motherboards with 3 conventional PCI slots any more. PCI Express has pretty much taken over conventional PCI as the expansion bus of choice. Servers were a little quicker than desktops to get rid of them as servers haven't had many standard 32-bit 33 MHz 5-volt PCI slots since the late 1990s. Servers are either set up to have a lot of I/O bandwidth to run things like multiple disk controllers and 10 Gb NICs and the like, or they are set up to conveniently fit in a short 1U or 2U chassis. The former requires a lot more bandwidth than PCI can provide, which is why servers had the odd-looking long 64-bit/66 MHz PCI and 64-bit/100 or 133 MHz PCI-X slots before dumping them to move on to PCI Express. Rackmount servers have one or two expansion slots that connect to a backplane so the cards lie parallel to the board instead of perpendicular to it. A low-bandwidth conventional PCI slot isn't going to be as useful here as something higher-bandwidth like PCI-X or PCI Express. However, you can run conventional PCI cards in a server with one or no conventional PCI slots. You can either get a flexible-cable backplane to plug into the one PCI slot that provides 2-3 more PCI slots. Or, you can get a PCI Express to PCI adapter and plug your PCI cards into the adapter. Both work. Or, you could go buy new PCI Express I/O cards since most anything you want is now available in PCI Express.

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 03/20/2012 08:08 PM
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Thalan
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Originally posted by: cosurgi

Anybody remembers the Abit-VP6 motherboard? It was the first consumer level motherboard with dual sockets. it was also the only non-pro dual socket mobo. It allowed (me, and many others) to have a very cheap dual core system in 1998 ! It didn't require any fancy'n'expensive processors, just buy two cheapest PIII and off we go!



This mobo gathered great following among the community these days. And this one which I bought in 1998 still serves me well as a home server. It was a great mobo indeed.



Opterons are expensive.




Anybody would be happy to buy a dual socket motherboard for Phenoms II, to get 8 cores ? I would, certainly. Maybe the "upper management" will consider this hint



discuss.


I would love to have a Dual Phenom II x4 980 3.7GHz CPU motherboard just for overclcocking. It would never serve for practical use but would be a load of fun to overclock and see what kind of scores it gets.
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