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Topic Title: Please update Dual Core Optimizer for Windows 7
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Created On: 08/14/2009 05:57 AM
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 08/15/2009 11:21 PM
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Immortal Lobster
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Nobody is flaming, just saying hat there is absolutely no need to update DCO

but just because undervlting is done all the time, doesn't mean it's not causing you problems. I have a new theory, force CnQ off in your bios, CnQ may be undervolting your undervolt which could be causing problems. also try using the performance option under power options, see if that clears up your problems.

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 08/16/2009 03:37 AM
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weinter
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This is a laptop not your gaming rig there is very little options in laptop BIOS.
And undervolting is not the issue.
CnQ only step down Processor speed via P-State and multiplier it doesn't undervolt and K10Stat the undervolting utility does take CnQ into consideration.
The problem is with the fan.
ACPI controls temperature reporting using mutex.
The problem is in game mode when the game is inplay.
The game somehow doesn't release the fan mutex or something.
It stops spinning in game resulting in overheating.
For normal usage it is ok. I stress the laptop with everything I have got and it doesn't overheat and fan runs as per normal bringing the temperature undercontrol.
Either due to bad ACPI DSDT programming or Windows ACPI.
The only difference between my ex-vista setup and Win7 setup is the DCO and the OS.

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Edited: 08/16/2009 at 04:11 AM by weinter
 08/16/2009 10:36 AM
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Immortal Lobster
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And we know it's not DCO, therefore it must be OS related, and a primary consideration is the CPU driver, specifically the CnQ functions. and P-states incluude voltage, that's the whole point. I'm thinking that the CnQ driver is failing to bring the whole system out of a particular pstate, try updating those drivers.

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 08/16/2009 01:48 PM
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Mime
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Originally posted by: weinter

This is a laptop not your gaming rig there is very little options in laptop BIOS.
And undervolting is not the issue.


Dude... I really don't mean to sound jackass-ish here... but isn't removing as many variables as possible sort of a fundamental part of troubleshooting the system? You're just making it harder on yourself by not putting the machine back at stock voltage until you figure out what's going on.

CnQ only step down Processor speed via P-State and multiplier it doesn't undervolt and K10Stat the undervolting utility does take CnQ into consideration.
The problem is with the fan.
ACPI controls temperature reporting using mutex.


Wait... what? A mutex does not "report" anything. They're used when you want to synchronize threads of a multithreaded application. Even if it was a sync issue there's nothing you could do about it aside from updating drivers anyway. I don't know what you meant to say, but I'm pretty sure the word "mutex" is not what you want here.

Like Lobster said... Stepping down voltage is the whole point of CnQ. Reducing clock speed only doesn't get you anywhere near the same reduction in temperatures, so focus on that for a while and see what it does for you.

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 08/17/2009 10:35 AM
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PorscheRacer14
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I'm going to chime in here with my past experiences and what I have experienced with 7. When I wsa beta testing Vista, CNQ wasn't working. I needed an updated BIOS to fix this. That ws the final BIOS updated for my motherboard and has since fixed that problem. I did install the DCO because Windows Media Center was stuttering when watching TV. Since SP1 that ahs been fixed and I never installed it again and removed it.

Now, I have an old laptop running Windows 7. I set it to balanced, even for gaming, and it downclocks and upclocks the CPU like it should. There is no new BIOS for my laptop, and it works fine. I'm also running a very hot P4 3.4E CPU in there, so I would know instantly if it wasn't working. In fact, in Windows 7, it now idles more often, with more programs open like IE. Before in XP, just lciking the internet icon would rev up the fans. Now it idles more often.

Here's some things to do:

1. Go type in 'msconfig' in the start menu. Click the boot tab and then the advanced options button. Click the box next to number off processors and select the highest number available. Do the same for the maximum memory field. Click OK on the windows to save your settings. This will allow your computer to boot up with all the available cores and memory and also set your desktop to multi-thread which will allow your CPU to perform more while at idle.

2. Go into yuor power options and select balanced. Adjust the individual settings in that profile to your liking. Make sure under the processor management field, you select the maximum processor values for your CPU when plugged in and on battery. it should be at 100% when plugged in and say something like 80 - 100% when on battery. For the minimum processor value set it to 0% for both plugged in and on battery. This will enable any advanced power states such as CE1 if your CPU supports it.

3. Reboot and see if these settings help things out.

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 08/17/2009 11:32 AM
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weinter
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I think you didn't even listen to what I said.
The problem is the OS didn't release the fan.
It is most likely the gaming process hijack the ACPI threads/addresses or ACPI buggy.
I have already said when not gaming and stressing the system the fan works and temperature is always under control except when gaming the fan somehow stop spinning.
It is not the voltage it is the fan I don't hear the fan spin during gaming in desktop 2D mode running CPU burn in Fan spins and temperature is under control
And ACPI do have mutex let me quote you a line from the ASL

Scope(\_TZ_)
{
ThermalZone(THRM)
{
Method(_TMP, 0x0, NotSerialized)
{
If(\_SB_.ECOK)
{
Acquire(\_SB_.PCI0.LPC0.EC0_.MUT1, 0xffff)
Store(\_SB_.PCI0.LPC0.EC0_.CTMP, Local0)
Release(\_SB_.PCI0.LPC0.EC0_.MUT1)
Return(Add(Multiply(Local0, 0xa, ), 0xaac, ))
}
Else
{
Return(0xdca)
}
}
Whatever solutions you suggested I already knew and tried but it is not the root of the problem, because it is the fan not the CPU state.
The CPU throttles correctly went up and down the P-states as it should according to the CPU load but there isn't a need to throttle if the fan spins as it should.
The throttling is irritating me as it wasn't needed if the fan spin and bring down the temperature.

-------------------------
Acer Aspire 4530
AMD Turion X2 2.1GHZ RM-72 1MB L2 Cache
4GB DDR2 667MHZ
NVIDIA 9100M G
320GB WD BEKT
http://aspiregemstone.blogspot.com/
 08/17/2009 11:54 AM
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PorscheRacer14
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Are your fan settings set to active or passive in windows 7?

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 08/17/2009 12:02 PM
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PC-GURU -
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Originally posted by: weinter

Originally posted by: Immortal Lobster



DCO is not needed in either Vista or 7.




Did you check the read me?

It was updated to enable installationm in vista.

Why would AMD do that if it was not needed?


Allow me to once again clarify.

there are a few games out there that where coded a bit ruff on there usage of multi threaded CPU,s. There dual core optimizer updated for vista was to allow it to be run in vista when used with these games. The optimizer was and is less optimization then timing fix. Vista SP2 was said to include the optimization timing fix for dial triple and quad cores that was placed into win 7.

Therefor = No longer needed.

vista SP1 = needed & not needed (some optimization pre included)

Vista SP2 = not needed (pre included)

Win 7 = not needed (pre included)

the last time DCO was updates was long before vista SP2 and around the time of vista SP1.

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 08/17/2009 12:41 PM
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weinter
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Originally posted by: PorscheRacer14

Are your fan settings set to active or passive in windows 7?


Yep First thing I checked

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AMD Turion X2 2.1GHZ RM-72 1MB L2 Cache
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http://aspiregemstone.blogspot.com/
 08/17/2009 12:46 PM
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weinter
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Originally posted by: PC-GURU -

Originally posted by: weinter



Originally posted by: Immortal Lobster







DCO is not needed in either Vista or 7.








Did you check the read me?



It was updated to enable installationm in vista.



Why would AMD do that if it was not needed?




Allow me to once again clarify.



there are a few games out there that where coded a bit ruff on there usage of multi threaded CPU,s. There dual core optimizer updated for vista was to allow it to be run in vista when used with these games. The optimizer was and is less optimization then timing fix. Vista SP2 was said to include the optimization timing fix for dial triple and quad cores that was placed into win 7.



Therefor = No longer needed.



vista SP1 = needed & not needed (some optimization pre included)



Vista SP2 = not needed (pre included)



Win 7 = not needed (pre included)



the last time DCO was updates was long before vista SP2 and around the time of vista SP1.


Service Packs are a bundle of KB fixes therefore
Please show me the corresponding KBXXXXX for which is part of the fix.

-------------------------
Acer Aspire 4530
AMD Turion X2 2.1GHZ RM-72 1MB L2 Cache
4GB DDR2 667MHZ
NVIDIA 9100M G
320GB WD BEKT
http://aspiregemstone.blogspot.com/
 08/17/2009 12:49 PM
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Mime
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If it's the fan you've been complaining about all this time, then how does any of this relate to the DCO at all? The DCO doesn't have any effect on fan settings whatsoever and actually neither does CnQ. Whatever the case might be, now you're talking about the OS and ACPI more than the DCO, so it sounds like you're moving away from the DCO being the source of the problem which is the only point I was trying to make.

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 08/17/2009 12:56 PM
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Immortal Lobster
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Same, but the fan is indirectly controlled by CnQ

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 08/17/2009 01:11 PM
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Mime
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A lot of things in the machine are indirectly controlled by something else.

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 08/17/2009 01:15 PM
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Immortal Lobster
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yeah, but the fans are the direct and implicitly defined variable of "Q" in CnQ, Quiet

Otherwise it would be CnW

Cool 'n' Whatever



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 08/17/2009 03:13 PM
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PC-GURU -
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Originally posted by: weinter

Originally posted by: PC-GURU -



Originally posted by: weinter







Originally posted by: Immortal Lobster















DCO is not needed in either Vista or 7.
















Did you check the read me?







It was updated to enable installationm in vista.







Why would AMD do that if it was not needed?








Allow me to once again clarify.







there are a few games out there that where coded a bit ruff on there usage of multi threaded CPU,s. There dual core optimizer updated for vista was to allow it to be run in vista when used with these games. The optimizer was and is less optimization then timing fix. Vista SP2 was said to include the optimization timing fix for dial triple and quad cores that was placed into win 7.







Therefor = No longer needed.







vista SP1 = needed & not needed (some optimization pre included)







Vista SP2 = not needed (pre included)







Win 7 = not needed (pre included)







the last time DCO was updates was long before vista SP2 and around the time of vista SP1.




Service Packs are a bundle of KB fixes therefore

Please show me the corresponding KBXXXXX for which is part of the fix.


no idea if it was part of a patch or just built into the code for SP2. I go off what my Microsoft volume license sales rep for my business tells me. We are ALL telling you its built in and you seem to not want to believe us. That's your right but I could care less. What I gave you was fact and what you want to do with it is up to you. You will not see a new optimizer come out so you might as well accept it.

out of 58 top games I own, every last one plays flawless with out DCO in vista. Therefor its built in and not needed.

-------------------------
AMD phenom II 1090T @ 4.23 Ghz custom water cooled
Asrock 890 FX deluxe 3 mother board
4 GB DDR 3 1600 @ 1688 Mhz 7 7 7 24 T1 2688 Mhz NB
2x 1 TB WD Sata III 64 mb cache HDD,s raid 0
2x 5870 HD @ 1015/1300 Asus reference
Dual OS win 7 x64 ultimate & win 7 x32 Ultimate (bench os)
 08/17/2009 03:23 PM
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Immortal Lobster
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<sigh> I give up


<smacks weinter upside head with a clay brick>

lol, j/p but seriously, you're either refusing to hear us, or you're not hearing us.

DCO is:

A) Not responsible for power states, voltage states, or above all, fan states.
B) No long required...at all!!.. past Vista SP1

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 08/17/2009 11:41 PM
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weinter
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Originally posted by: Immortal Lobster

<sigh> I give up





<smacks weinter upside head with a clay brick>



lol, j/p but seriously, you're either refusing to hear us, or you're not hearing us.



DCO is:



A) Not responsible for power states, voltage states, or above all, fan states.

B) No long required...at all!!.. past Vista SP1


No CnQ only controls Power State not Fan
Fan is controlled by EC under ACPI
Why I think DCO is needed because I suspect during gaming due to the absence

Applications that rely on RDTSC do not benefit from the logic in the operating system to properly account for the affect of power management mechanisms on the rate at which a processor core's Time Stamp Counter (TSC) is incremented. The AMD Dual-Core Optimizer helps to correct the resulting video performance effects or other incorrect timing effects that these applications may experience on dual-core or multiple processor systems.

And there is no solid proof that the fix is included when it cannot be found in any of the KB fixes.

DCO even without DCO gaming is possible Desktop have excellent cooling mechanism of course it won't be affected

-------------------------
Acer Aspire 4530
AMD Turion X2 2.1GHZ RM-72 1MB L2 Cache
4GB DDR2 667MHZ
NVIDIA 9100M G
320GB WD BEKT
http://aspiregemstone.blogspot.com/
 08/17/2009 11:42 PM
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Immortal Lobster
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<throws brick out window and leaves room>

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 08/18/2009 12:20 PM
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Mime
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Originally posted by: weinter
Why I think DCO is needed because I suspect during gaming due to the absence


Absense of... what? I understand that English may not be the native language of everyone on this board, but if you can't make yourself clear using it then you can't expect anyone else to know what you're talking about. It's kind of curious that you've spent so much time here demanding proof from everyone else while you are attributing this problem to some mysterious bug somewhere in software. I think it's time you get out some debug tools and show me exactly how the DCO is tied up in what's happening to your machine. Until then you're wrong and I'm right.

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Edited: 08/18/2009 at 12:47 PM by Mime
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