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Topic Title: OMG OMG
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Created On: 12/15/2003 12:00 AM
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 12/19/2003 06:34 PM
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Mime
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QUOTE (:hilix::Transa:: @ Dec 19 2003, 03:23 PM)the Pentium 4 Extreme Edition is a much more viable option for power users who want good performance at a reasonable price point.
I must need to get my eyes checked.

Philix, I dunno where the heck you're getting your information but most of it's crap. Look at the comparison chart on this page here' ">http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=60000267 at Aces. That's all you need to know about how the P4EE stacks up against its competition. Also note that this review was done before the release of the Athlon64 3000+.

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 12/19/2003 06:46 PM
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::Philix::Transa::
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I am in NO way supprting Intel or the PEE!
I was just shocked to read some info. that the PEE is faster in some application!!
But lets do not forget that the 64 bit Windows application is not yet released, so when it will.... there would be no competition what so ever..

P.S---> why Intel doesn't release their 64 bit CPU's??hmmmm

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 12/19/2003 06:50 PM
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Oh I see, you were quoting something, right? I just now noticed the end quote at the end of your post.

In some apps the P4EE is faster, but not very many and only by a small amount. Leaving the benchmarks aside, I don't think it's unfair to say the statement that buying an FX-51 requires "deep pockets" while calling the P4EE a reasonable value is all the proof a person needs of blatant bias on the part of the writer.

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 12/19/2003 08:35 PM
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QUOTE (Ardrid @ Dec 19 2003, 12:54 AM) I don't feel like buying the issue for one review Care to tell me how they tested (apps, testbeds, etc.)?
All right Ardrid! You owe me!

They didn't review that PC entirely, but they wrote the article. Read on:

In the last paragraph with header "Welcome to L". It reads:

"So what's our take on the phenomenon? It's a tough call, but one thing we can say definitively is that although L Computers has much potential, the company has a long way to go in terms of PC design and configuration. We like the OS tweaks and execution of the RAM drive, but we found an alarming lack of airflow around the RAID array. We're also extremely concerned with the interior wiring job, which was messy at best. High-end PC users don't just expect the wiring jobs tighter than a snare drum, they demand it. These same users will quickly reject the embarrassing rat's nest we found.
Admittedly, the L Mach 3.8 was a rapidly configured and delivered prototype, and it's still early in the game for this young company. So we'll give L the benefit of doubt. After all, the company's machine performed quite well in our tests (see In the Lab below), and some of its features are well worth celebrating. Also of note is L's modder-inspired approach, which embraces looks, power, and coolness.
Can a company that no one's ever heard of bootstrap itself to the top of the hardcore PC crowd? We're about to find out."


So they didn't print the zero-point performance, but also printed a short article titled "In The Lab". It reads:

"Say what you will about L Computers, but the company's flagship PC, the Mach L 3.8 posts big numbers with its 420MHz speed advantage.
In CPU-constrained benchmarks, the overclocked Mach L 3.8 ran faster than HypersSonic's SonicBoom (reviewed on page 68) a PC featuring a 3.2Ghz Pentium 4 Exteme Edition overclocked to 3.38GHz. In Premiere Pro, the Mach 3.8 sprinted about 8 percent faster than the SonicBoom (which itself slammed Athlon 64 FX boxes), and it performed about 9 percent faster in our Photoshop tests. That's pretty darn fast.
Oddly, we saw a virtually no difference with regards to gaming performance. Packing the same videocard as SonicBoom but carrying the clock speed advantage, the Mach L 3.8 finished dead even with its competitor in Jedi Academy and only 4 percent faster in Halo.
We're always concerned about heavily overclocked systems so we ran the Mach L 3.8 through a nonstop three-day burn-in to see if the processor would give up the ghost. It didn't crash once. Vapochill gets big props here for a job well done."

Well, what do you guys think?

Better yet, does anyone have sledgehammer for me to use on this beast?

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 12/19/2003 08:55 PM
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Very Interesting indeed!
The L technologies Company brought us a beast and we'll wait and see if it would apper in the top 10... personally i think it slams the Falcon, Voodoo, ABS and all that crap! AlienWare is more favorite with me...anyhow... This 3.8 beast is awesome!

WE NEED TO WRITE THEM SO THEY WILL BUILD SOME 2.8 SUPER HYPER THREATING OPERATING BLAZING AMD 64-FX!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure if they will put their hands on AMd products, the'll SMOKE !!!!!

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 12/19/2003 10:52 PM
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The Machl 3.8 => The biggest crock of .... this side of our computing filled galaxy. So just how much is one with the 3.2EE chip?

Dig deep...
no deeper....
no deeper still...
darker and deeper...
deeper and deeper...
take out a loan...
and deeper still...
$7999.00

Then we can choose to add such options like...
Intel Pentium 4 Hyper-Threading @ 3.8GHz Extreme Edition [add $1250]
(optional after the $7999 price tag?)
16GB (Dual-channel 533MHz) [4GB + 12GB Extended RAM] [add $9999]
PuRam Technology Drive [add $4999]
2 Terabyte (7200rpm) w/ 8MB RAM Buffer [add $2457]
Ultra-SCSI 320 w/ 4 73.4GB Seagate Cheetah 15K.3 Drives [add $3020]
Fiber-Channel 400FD Controller [add $699]
Matrox G450 X4 MMS [add $799]
High-Definition Component Video Output [add $49]
8x DVD-RW Drive [add $247]
Multi-function Double Slot LCD Display - Green [add $205]
(3) IEEE 1394b Firewire 800 Ports [add $95]
Full-length 32-bit or 64-bit PCI Slot Expanded Module (up to 74) [call]
802.11b/g Wireless LAN [add $79]
Bluetooth Adapter [add $79]
Wireless Keyboard + Mouse [add $99]
3-year Extended Enterprise Warranty [add $349]

Check out with item.

Lets see your grand total with your groceries and your bonus for the supermarket scam is...

$28,104.99

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 12/19/2003 10:57 PM
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Mime
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Bragging rights aren't often cheap, even when it's in return for something you really can brag about.

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 12/20/2003 10:18 PM
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Ardrid
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I was talking about the FX v. EE article, Freak

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 12/21/2003 02:37 AM
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QUOTE (Ardrid @ Dec 20 2003, 07:18 PM) I was talking about the FX v. EE article, Freak
D-OH, Ardrid!! I'll post it Sunday late night.

In the meantime, I gotta hit the road in 5 hours, so I gotta crash. Then go up to see my mom for early Xmas get-together before she flies out for X-mas through New Year in Sunny Arizona. So I hope y'all have merry, merry, merry, merry, merry, merry, merry, merry weekend!

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 12/21/2003 04:40 PM
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::Philix::Transa::
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And a Haaaaapyyy NEWWWW Yeaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrr

I would like that 28,000 gift to Christmas ...lol

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 12/22/2003 08:53 PM
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Ardrid, here's the article, as promised, albeit my late return from up north!

Excerpts from "Three's a Crowd" article from MPC December 2003.

Intel P4EE, CS: 3.2GHz, L1: 8K, L2: 512K, L3: 2MB, TransCount: 178 million, Process: 0.13µ, Die sz: 237mm², SE: MMX, SSE, SSE2 Sysbus: 800MHz
AMD Athlon 64 FX-51, CS: 2.2GHz, L1: 128K, L2: 512K, L3: N/A, TransCount: 106 million, Process: 0.13µ, Die sz: 193mm², SE: AMD64, MMX, SSE2, 3DNow Pro! Sysbus: 2.2GHz
Apple PowerPC 970 (G5), CS: 2GHz, L1: 32K, L2: 512K, L3: N/A, TransCount: 58 million, Process: 0.13µ, Die sz: 118mm², SE: Altivec, Sysbus: 1GHz

Test Beds:
Athlon: Asus SK8N, ATI Radeon 9800 Pro, 1GB Registered DDR400 running in dual-channel mode, Windows XP Pro, and a 120GB PATA Western Digital WD1200JB HDD w/8MB cache.
Apple G5: Dual CPU, Mobo unknown, ATI Radeon 9800 Pro, 1GB DDR400 running in dual-channel mode, Mac OS X 10.2, and a 160GB SATA Seagate7200.7 HDD with 8MB cache.
P4EE: Asus P4C800-E, ATI Radeon 9800 Pro, 1GB DDR400 running in dual-channel mode, Windows XP Pro, and a 120GB PATA Western Digital WD1200JB HDD w/8MB cache.

Benchmarks are as follows which these are cross-platform.
Mathematica 5.0, SETI@Home, Unreal Tournament 2003, Jedi Outcast, Quake III, InDesign 5.0 Photoshop 7.0.1, Bibble/MacBibble, Quicktime 6.3, and Compressor/Procoder (DV-to-MPEG2 conversion).

And Without Further Ado... The Results!
Scores in Green are FX-51, in Blue are P4EE, and in red are G5. Bold denotes the top score!
Mathematica 5.0,..........................572 sec, 639 sec, 997 sec
SETI@Home ................................106 min, 111min, 173min
UT2K3 .........................................332 fps, 334fps, 80 fps
Jedi Outcast .................................130 fps, 133 fps, 72 fps
Quake III .....................................445 fps, 501 fps, 404 fps
InDesign 2.0 Export to PDF ...........47 sec, 46 sec, 61 sec
Photoshop 7.0.1 All Filters .............269 sec, 266 sec, 330 sec
Photoshop 7.0.1 MacAddict Filters...38sec, 41 sec, 37 sec
Bibble/MacBibble ...........................451 sec, 354 sec, 240 sec
Quicktime 6.3 Export to MOV..........803 sec, 744 sec, 706 sec
Compressor “Fast” vs.
Procorder “High-Speed”..................225 sec, 225 sec, 263 sec
Compressor “High-Quality” vs.
Procorder 1.5 “Mastering”...............1105 sec, 1190 sec, 724 sec

And the Winnah is.....

After looking at the official test results, and after considering the overall performance of all 3 platforms, we have to declare the Intel’s P4EE the winner by the thinnest of margins. It looks like the P4EE’s large L3 cache is giving the basic P4 core a big performance boost on not only multimedia apps but also games. The P4EE’s HT is also showing more of its value, and is responsible for some of the performance wins.
The Athlon 64 FX-51, however, is so damned close we’re reluctant to call it “second-best” CPU. Yes, it won fewer benchmark rounds in this competition, but its overall performance was just a hair behind the P4EE’s, and in some “unofficial” tests that we ran on just the Intel and AMD machines, the FX-51 showed superiority in games. For example, in Halo, the FX-51 beat the P4EE by about 6 frames (62.4 fps to 56.5 fps). It also triumphed in the UT2K3 Botmatch demo (96.9 fps to 93.8 fps). We think you can credit the FX-51’s on-die memory controller for these wins.
When you factor in the FX-51’s 64-bit readiness and the fact that the P4EE appears to be more of a “proof-of-concept” than a shipping product, we think you too will agree that AMD deserves its Gear of the Year honors. Indeed, the raw benchmark wins aren’t everything.
As for the G5, it takes a distant third-place standing (which would likely be fourth-place if we tested a generic P4), but things are actually looking up for Apple. The latest MAC is a wonderful performer when running the code that supports Altivec and dual CPUs. In fact, we’re comfortable saying that the G5 is likely to pull ahead of single-proc systems when running heavily multithreaded tasks.
Apple’s biggest problem isn’t in its hardware, but rather its current software support. In apps that aren’t optimized for the G5’s unique benefits, the Mac’s performance is a travesty. We’d even bet that in some apps, the G5 is no faster than the G4. We saw a similar problem when the P4 was introduced. Although it was clocked about one-third faster than the Pentium III, in many apps it was slower because the code of the day couldn’t just take advantage of the P4’s architecture and special instructions. But now, 3 years later, the P4 is a screamer. Apple’s G5 could have the same fate.
Regardless, we can finally say that Apple has introduced a worthy competitor to the PC platform.

And now for the Minority Opinion.....
We asked Rik Myslewski, MacAddict’s editor-in-chief, to weigh in on our analysis. Here’s what he had to say:

While we here at MacAddict are drooling over the Athlon 64 FX’s on-die memory controller and the P4EE’s 2MB L2 cache, and while we also grudgingly concede the lead to you PC folks in game performance, we’re pleased as punch it took two expensive, just-released, specialized procs (unavailable to normal consumers searching the websites of Dell, Gateway, HP and others) to edge out a standard, off-the-shelf dual-2GHz Power Mac G5. In tests that mimic work performed on a non-hot-rod PCs by normal working shlubs like, oh, about 99% of the personal-computer market, the G5 (née IBM PowerPC 970) rocks. We look forward to testing the G5 against the garden-variety P4s that litter the computing landscape.

What do ya think!?!?

IMHO, if the FX-51 has a third L3 cache, the FX will trounce the P4EE despite the 1 full GHz handicap!

Opinions, anyone?

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"Wild flowers may die, but the blooming idiots last forever!"

ÂMĐF®ëâĸ
PC Doctor of Jacksonville

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 12/22/2003 11:27 PM
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Ardrid
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Something doesn't seem right. In every other review out there the FX trounces the EE in gaming, especially UT2K3. Not to mention that there weren't that many benchmarks run in the first place. Meh, so be it. That's why I read more than one review

Thanks, Freak.

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 12/23/2003 12:19 AM
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ÂMĐF®ëâĸ
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Anytime, Ardrid!

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"Wild flowers may die, but the blooming idiots last forever!"

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PC Doctor of Jacksonville

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AMD Processors » AMD Enthusiast Community » General Technology Chat » OMG OMG

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