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Topic Title: Fake EAX sound from Realtek codecs?
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Created On: 11/05/2006 01:08 AM
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 11/05/2006 01:08 AM
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blizard
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I found this from DailyTech:

quote:

Originally posted by: Unknown Analog Devices and Creative Labs have made claims that Realtek’s high definition audio solutions do not render EAX or EAX2 audio -- at least not very well. While Realtek’s audio drivers have the proper driver flags to enable EAX and EAX2 in supported games, the listening experience presents a different story. Listening tests demonstrated by Analog Devices and Creative Labs show that Realtek’s high definition audio solutions render EAX and EAX2 incorrectly, removing the 3D positional audio aspects and immersion of EAX and EAX2 completely.


[...]

Currently Realtek is the only known high definition codec manufacturer to render EAX and EAX2 incorrectly as IDT/Sigmatel does not support EAX or EAX2. It is unknown if previous C-Media audio solutions produced before it was acquired by Realtek produce similar results. Analog Devices and Creative Labs made no mention if add-in sound cards such as the recent Dolby Digital Live equipped C-Media CMI8768+ or CMI8778 are affected. Various manufacturers including ASUS, Universal abit, DFI, Gigabyte, MSI and others use Realtek audio solutions.



Does this mean that even HDA Mystique and HDA Xplosion do not render EAX sound in a proper way? In that case that would make Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect very useless if there isn't any positional sound to support these encoding system for game.

Is there any support to these claims in that article from DailyTech and Analog Devices with Creative Lab. or is it just simple FUD?



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 11/05/2006 01:37 AM
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bvchurch
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I have read about this before. Well no wonder, the article is from September.

Anyways not much has every come from this article. To be honest, if one wanted to run EAX sound I would goo out and buy a sound card, but that would be I.

As far as the Auzentech (Bluegears) they use the C MEdia CMI 8768 and the 8770. I doubt those are affected/effected. As I recall though, creative was the creator of the EAX tech, thus its hard to say that any one else could create something as well as them.
 11/05/2006 01:58 AM
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Booze46
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quote:

Originally posted by: blizard
Is there any support to these claims in that article from DailyTech and Analog Devices with Creative Lab. or is it just simple FUD?



certainly no FUD - the problem is not many really know how EAX *can* sound IF u are not an expert in this arena or ever had a chance for a side by side comparison.
 11/05/2006 02:02 AM
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blizard
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quote:

Originally posted by: bvchurch
I have read about this before. Well no wonder, the article is from September.

Anyways not much has every come from this article. To be honest, if one wanted to run EAX sound I would goo out and buy a sound card, but that would be I.

As far as the Auzentech (Bluegears) they use the C MEdia CMI 8768 and the 8770. I doubt those are affected/effected. As I recall though, creative was the creator of the EAX tech, thus its hard to say that any one else could create something as well as them.



I tried to do a search on this forum here for realtek and eax, but it didn't work as I got to many suggestion and none related to this article...so far as I could see.

The problem are that Creative and Analog Device (two company of sound card production) make claim that Benchmark that use Realtek as base measurement and compare it to other option will be false positive for how low CPU demand it really will use as it doesn't do its job. In the end it is a subjective point in how we will hear sound effects and that will also matter to what we expect from playing a game.

Auzentechs (HDA) Xplosion DDL and DTS are encoding of multichannel stream so it can be output through one digital connection (Optical or Coaxial). It will mean that sound can not be exactly the same as source and EAX are mainly a sound effect to create different 3D sound to imitate walls, door and other object in between and give it a directional effect. DirectSound3D are also involved in this process as far as I understand (part of DirectX). In the end it is hard to value what is the best option to get a good sound for game and for other application as most people will not go around to test every possible sound card to find the best for their use.

MB sound card are developing and there are even DTS Connect on some motherboard on the market today, so it is relevant to understand if this is part of FUD from these two companies.

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 11/05/2006 03:24 AM
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Smogsy
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my dad has a xfi platnium card
i have a xpolision by auztech

xploision sounds far better in bf2,fear,CSS specially in dvd's that are coded in dts which is kinda of a lot now,

http://www.dtsonline.com/consumer/

i had the same problem between auzentech and XFI creative cards.

in the end after i read reviews on auztentech sounding better then XFI in somecases i bought it

i would never go back to a non DTS Soundcard hope i helps
 11/05/2006 08:30 AM
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me=kon
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quote:

Originally posted by: Smogsy
my dad has a xfi platnium card
i have a xpolision by auztech

xploision sounds far better in bf2,fear,CSS specially in dvd's that are coded in dts which is kinda of a lot now,

http://www.dtsonline.com/consumer/

i had the same problem between auzentech and XFI creative cards.

in the end after i read reviews on auztentech sounding better then XFI in somecases i bought it

i would never go back to a non DTS Soundcard hope i helps


you mean auzentech

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 11/05/2006 09:38 AM
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Smogsy
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yeh lo never been good at english or reading
 11/05/2006 09:39 AM
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CoolDudePT
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Well, one this is for sure: BF2 lets me enbale EAX with my onboard sound, but it's definately not rendering the sounds properly. I can tell that. Sounds don't come from they're supposed to, with the wrong intensity (from distance, etc), choppy sound, etc. Reverting to non EAX solves it.

Then again, it's BF2 I'm talking about... /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

cya

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 11/05/2006 10:03 AM
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Overmind
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'Incorrectly' ... depends on the point of view.
anyway, EAX is obsolete.
Dolby Digital owns !


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 11/05/2006 10:15 AM
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Smogsy
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yup overmind very true
 11/05/2006 10:55 AM
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FrozenSteel
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It also happens on the ALC850... My old AMD machine had it and whenever I played WC3 with EAX enabled, i would get alot of echoing. I switched to Dolby Digital and sounded just fine.

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 11/06/2006 05:59 AM
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blizard
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How can Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect be better then ALC850 as all these use the same EAX (up version 2.0)? Is it because DDL/DTS Connect use some other system for rendering sound effect to deliver these positional sound? DTS and DDL are only multichannel encoding ASFAIK, so they can not replace EAX by them self. They only move processing of sound to an external decoder with DSP.

Smogsy: DVD that have DTS encoded track will only use passthrough and mean that the sound will not be processed until it is in the end (hardware decoded) of this process. I can not understand how HDA Xplosion will help in that case as even my ALC850 will do this. It is only when you have a stereo source that up converting will help to get full surround effect (2->5.1).

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 11/06/2006 11:07 AM
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TheReturnOfAZ
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while we are talking about this,
do you have to be in "game mode" to get EAX on the xfi?

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 11/06/2006 08:15 PM
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konfuzd
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I'm not sure, but in the 6 months that I've owned an x-fi I've never seen the need to take it out of game mode.

For the "fake" EAX thing, the reduction in quality is most likely due to the quantity of sound calculations done in software instead of on hardware. In an effort to reduce CPU usage, they had to use approximations to allow games to perform better. Creative's sound cards (x-fi, audigy 2 zs, ect.) don't have this problem because they have more than enough computing resources to use exact methods.

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 11/06/2006 09:15 PM
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TheReturnOfAZ
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quote:

Originally posted by: konfuzd
I'm not sure, but in the 6 months that I've owned an x-fi I've never seen the need to take it out of game mode.


you dont think entertainment sounds 10x better?

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 11/06/2006 09:41 PM
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konfuzd
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quote:

Originally posted by: TheReturnOfAZ
you dont think entertainment sounds 10x better?



I've just never tried it. I've been content with the sound quality in game mode.

EDIT: It does sound far better in entertainment mode.

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 11/07/2006 12:59 AM
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TheReturnOfAZ
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quote:

Originally posted by: konfuzd
I've just never tried it. I've been content with the sound quality in game mode.

EDIT: It does sound far better in entertainment mode.


see...

if you have a good way of testing EAX, please tell me if it works in entertainment mode.

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 11/07/2006 08:20 AM
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Xtreeme
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quote:

Originally posted by: Booze46
certainly no FUD - the problem is not many really know how EAX *can* sound IF u are not an expert in this arena or ever had a chance for a side by side comparison.




ITs true and its old news. I had c-media back then and Im the type to click EAX just to see! It worked KINDA. I have realtek ALC-850 onboard with thisen and ya, same works KINDA. It has pops, most games the voices get REAL quiet, and ya sound imaging is lost (sound like in caves when not etc etc).

What does this mean? The codec can "decode" EAX but not correctly. It may one day matter. Right now its just a fluke, they are after all built on d3d library. (I bought a $30 SB audigy se problem solved)

Some folks are confused over DTS, Dolby and EAX terms here. DTS and Dolby Digital are CODECS. LOL. How can DTS be the solution to EAX! EAX vs D3D sound is more like it. They are formats for sound.

Also EAX does NOT do audio postioning. I will repeat (huge myth here) EAX does NOT do audio positioning D3d sound does that. EAX kinda shapes the sound, doesnt shift it around the spks. Sorry I gotta admitt M$ did good on that one.

Correct way to compair is DTS vs. Dolby Digital (these are competing products)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Theater_System

Good sound cards support both so.......................nothing missing there. Even mid to low. I have a pc with onboard sound supporting Dolby Digital, DTS and NO EAX. So thats tells ya there.

Then EAX 1-4 vs Miles Fast and others. These are competing products "kinda". By that I mean EAX works on the d3d sound library and extends on it so do the rest.....its more a bigger part of it. However there was aurial I think it was called then Miles Fast and few other propriatary API's (they are EAX real comp) These are used in game most often. EAX had the early advantage of being the only one of them that could really do sound imaging, and in hardware. I had a SB live MP3+ 5.1 back then and its sound was impresive (bugs werent though).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...ental_audio_extensions
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