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Topic Title: DRM
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Created On: 09/22/2006 05:15 PM
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 09/22/2006 05:15 PM
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Telecide
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Hey y'all. First post here. So I'm starting to think about building a new machine and haven't been following the technology for the last couple of years so I had to do a little research to get up to speed. It's confusing. It seems like there are about a trillion different configurations to look at all with comparable clock speeds. Anyway, just when I thought I was narrowing it down I came across a rather disturbing acronym: DRM.

Well that doesn't sound like anything I want so I figured it was an option I could do without. I called up AMD yesterday and asked which, if any, of their chips had drm. The guy on the phone seemed to have never heard of drm, but after putting me on hold for a bit he assured me that no AMD chips had it.

Great! But not so fast. After browsing this forum I foiund some posts that said that the AM2 chips DID have DRM after all. For some reason this feature is less prominently advertised than others like dual core architecture. So I was just wondering if any of knowledgable types could tell me which AMD chips have it (and which Intel chips if that's cool and all), and which don't. How difficult is it going to be to build an up to date, DRM free system?

Thanks.
 09/22/2006 05:21 PM
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felixforever
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DRM far as i understand it is built into The operating system, with measures in the Video cards and monitors. Has nothing to do with the cpu

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Opteron 165 CCBBE, DFI Lanparty UT RDX200 Ati, Sapphire X1900Gt

I dont know whats worse, the Fanboys, the Flamewars or the DRM paranoia
 09/22/2006 05:27 PM
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Telecide
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Well I don't completely understand the technology, but this thread seems to cotradict that.

http://forums.amd.com/index.ph...pic=...ghts+management
 09/22/2006 05:33 PM
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felixforever
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Honestly havent found any definition that Presidio Security and tpm is actually forms of DRM, Google them you wont find much if anything, honestly looks like a assumption on someones part... Honestly if you arent doing anything illegal like downloading movies, software, music you down own. then you dont need to get that worried. best i could find

"Officials for Advanced Micro Devices said Wednesday the company was developing “Presidio”, a feature to enhance security of personal computers. The claim follows Intel’s plans to offer more secure PCs with its LaGrande technology and industry-wide initiative to implement non-execute bit into conventional microprocessors.

AMD Touts Presidio

“Presidio is an AMD program focused on advancing PC and server security technology,” AMD’s spokesman Phil Hughes told X-bit labs.

The representative remained tight-lipped over the details concerning the technology and did not reveal any direction of Presidio. He declined to comment whether there are any links between Presidio, Intel’s LaGrande technology and Microsoft’s Longhorn operating system.

Earlier this year Sunnyvale, California-based AMD incorporated so-called non-execute bit into its chips. The capability protects certain system memory data regions from insertion and execution of potentially harmful code, that is also referred as NX-bit, eXecute Disable (XD) or AntiVirusNX Technology and works only in conjunction with Windows XP operating systems that feature Service Pack 2."

Dosent seem like drm to me sounds like a plan to prevent harmful code like a virus
Linky http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/c...ay/20040922120030.html

and on the TPM

" Microsoft's new desktop operating system Windows Vista will use this technology as part of the feature BitLocker Drive Encryption. BitLocker will encrypt the entire computer's volume for security. This is highly desirable since so many PCs and laptops are stolen and this would prevent a company's sensitive data from falling into the wrong hands. Pushing the security down to the hardware level in conjunction with software is a much better solution than just a simple system BIOS password or 3rd party software installed on the computer that can be compromised.

Currently this technology uses a separate chip for computers. As of 2006, many new laptop computers are sold with TPM built in. In the future, this concept could be co-located on an existing motherboard chip in computers, not to mention any other device to secure it, such as a cell phone.
[edit]
Linky http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module

That dosent seem like drm either, its Necessary for windows Vista's Bit locker Encryption so yea...

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Opteron 165 CCBBE, DFI Lanparty UT RDX200 Ati, Sapphire X1900Gt

I dont know whats worse, the Fanboys, the Flamewars or the DRM paranoia
 09/22/2006 05:47 PM
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Telecide
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I have no problem with companies trying to protect their property, I just prefer they do it at their end, not in my house by potentially crippling something I own. Anyway, I don't really want to get into an argument about whether or not the strategy is fair or reasonable, and even less do I want to have to prove that I'm not a criminal. I'm simply curious how to avoid it.
 09/22/2006 05:49 PM
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felixforever
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How to avoid it, dont buy windows Vista, dont use windows media player 11. what i find horrible is someone Declared them DRM on hardware when some simple web surfing has Shown the opposite. i think drm is dumb but these 2 tech's seem to be protecting you and your data more then being DRM

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Opteron 165 CCBBE, DFI Lanparty UT RDX200 Ati, Sapphire X1900Gt

I dont know whats worse, the Fanboys, the Flamewars or the DRM paranoia
 09/22/2006 05:52 PM
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k2aka111
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wow what is the world coming to. You have to PROVE your not a criminal instead of inoccent until PROVEN guilty. I don't care what this says, it will never be reasonable. DRM is dumb, the people who make up DRM laws are dumb, the idea that DRM can stop piracy completely is DUMB!!

EDIT: bill gates is dumb to.

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 09/22/2006 05:55 PM
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Telecide
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Heh, well I wasn't really planning to do either of those things. But that info is helpful. Thank you.
 09/22/2006 06:00 PM
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Silk_the_Absent1
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quote:

Originally posted by: k2aka111 wow what is the world coming to. You have to PROVE your not a criminal instead of inoccent until PROVEN guilty.


I disagree with DRM on a fundemental level, but I do pose this as a bit of devils advocate. DRM wouldn't be a real issue if there weren't so many people pirating things. And what is worse, are the people making money doing it. These people are the reason DRM became an issue.

quote:

Originally posted by: Unknown Other programs are also subject to piracy, in October of 2004, DOPIP reported that pirated software that was caught netted 25,064,295 counterfeit items, valued then at $79,775,852 USD. This equals out to the pirates charging roughly three dollars and twenty cents per pirated item.

Small-time piracy, done by end-users, is generally of less cause for concern, as it poses much less of a monetary threat to companies. It has, however, recently been targeted by a group of companies partnered together, forming the Trusted Computing Group (TCG).

TCG denies the connection between them and DRM (Digital Rights Management), but it is there nonetheless. In his article “The Digital Imprimatur”, John Walker says “On a Trusted Computing system, the ability to back up, mirror, and transfer data will be necessarily limited. Hardware and compliant operating systems will restrict the ability to transfer data from system to system.”1 This means that there is a hardware lock against piracy built into the computer. Unfortunately, it also means that media you create, or any form of license-free item, will not work on a system meeting the TCG standards. It takes away your right to choose what to do with your system.

1 John Walker, The Digital Imprimatur: http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/


An excerpt from an article I'd written last year.

-Adam
 09/22/2006 06:04 PM
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k2aka111
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quote:

Originally posted by: Silk_the_Absent1
I disagree with DRM on a fundemental level, but I do pose this as a bit of devils advocate. DRM wouldn't be a real issue if there weren't so many people pirating things. And what is worse, are the people making money doing it. These people are the reason DRM became an issue.
An excerpt from an article I'd written last year.

-Adam



People making money off of DRM or piracy?

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 09/22/2006 06:16 PM
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Silk_the_Absent1
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People making money off of piracy. Look at the two most densely populated places on Earth, the majority of movies, music and software you can buy in those places are bootlegs.

-Adam
 09/22/2006 08:09 PM
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Telecide
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quote:

Originally posted by: Silk_the_Absent1
People making money off of piracy. Look at the two most densely populated places on Earth, the majority of movies, music and software you can buy in those places are bootlegs.

-Adam




You sound like a knowledgable type. Do you know which chips do not have presidio or tpm or anything like that? I tried shaking my fist in the direction of China, but that didn't help.
 09/22/2006 08:13 PM
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Silk_the_Absent1
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From what I can see, it is looking like all AM2 parts (and by that logic, S1 and F, I'd assume) have Presidio.

-Adam
 09/22/2006 08:16 PM
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Telecide
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So would I be good with any non AM2 setup?
 09/22/2006 08:18 PM
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felixforever
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You would be fine with a am2 setup, and Presidio is NOT DRM... how is The capability protects certain system memory data regions from insertion and execution of potentially harmful code, that is also referred as NX-bit, eXecute Disable (XD) or AntiVirusNX Technology, being confused with DRM???

-------------------------
Opteron 165 CCBBE, DFI Lanparty UT RDX200 Ati, Sapphire X1900Gt

I dont know whats worse, the Fanboys, the Flamewars or the DRM paranoia
 09/22/2006 08:27 PM
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Silk_the_Absent1
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It's not the same as the NX bit, it's a form of trusted computing. Which is not (officially) DRM, but right along the same lines; taking control over your system out of your hands, and putting it into the hands of a so-called "Fritz chip".

-Adam
 09/22/2006 08:31 PM
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felixforever
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All it sounds to me is just a add on to dep and i dont understand how anyone can interperate anything else from the definitions that have been given.

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Opteron 165 CCBBE, DFI Lanparty UT RDX200 Ati, Sapphire X1900Gt

I dont know whats worse, the Fanboys, the Flamewars or the DRM paranoia
 09/22/2006 08:35 PM
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Telecide
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quote:

Originally posted by: Silk_the_Absent1
It's not the same as the NX bit, it's a form of trusted computing. Which is not (officially) DRM, but right along the same lines; taking control over your system out of your hands, and putting it into the hands of a so-called "Fritz chip".

-Adam



Exactly. I never missed having tpm, so I don't really see feel a need to have it. Plus judging from some Intel's press releases about drm companies are less than forthright about this type of technology.
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