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Topic Title: How does ATI HD 3200 gpu compare to X1600?
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Created On: 05/24/2008 05:13 PM
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 05/24/2008 05:13 PM
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Locutus1
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I've never had an ATI card so I don't know anything about them. I'm thinking of getting a mobo with the 780G chipset. After getting the motherboard the first games I'll be playing are older games and the recommended gpu is X1600 256MB. I plan to get 4GB RAM with the mobo and I could allocate 512MB to the ATI 3200 gpu. I can also overclock the gpu from 500 MHz to at least 750MHz (Tom's Hardware overclocked it to 950 MHz). How would the 3200 now compare to an X1600?

Would it easily handle a game where an X1600 is recommended or should I get a discreet gpu? If the 3200 can easily handle the game, then I could get the discreet card later.
 05/24/2008 07:24 PM
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Decembermouse
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Welcome to the forums! For older games, either one would work. The 3200 supports DirectX 10.1, but that only matters for newer games. You really don't need 4GB of RAM. 2GB or 1GB would do you just fine for older games, 4GB is way overkill. And you can only use 3.2GB of RAM if you have a 32-bit operating system, so not really worth it if you don't have 64-bit Windows. You wouldn't need 512mb of graphics memory for older games. The 3200 uses system memory, which is going to be significantly slower than a card with its own memory. You can get an X1600 for around $100.

Honestly, I wouldn't go for a X1600 series. It's two generations ago, and next month it will be three generations ago. For less money, you can actually get a better card, a X2600 series. For instance, for $67 you get:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?Item=N82E16814102700

Or, for $75, a current-generation graphics core on a 3650:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?Item=N82E16814102725

Or, for $25 more than you originally wanted to spend you can get a current-generation 3850, which is actually a gaming card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814102715

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Edited: 05/24/2008 at 07:41 PM by Decembermouse
 05/24/2008 09:24 PM
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Locutus1
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No, you totally misunderstood me. 1GB wouldn't work. 1GB is the minimum requirement for the game. I also said the first games I would be playing are older. I never said I would be staying with older games. There are games that recommend 2GB so getting 4GB makes sense. Also, I said the recommended card is X1600 256MB. I think most people agree that it's good if you can exceed the recommended requirements, so allocating 512MB for video makes sense. When I mentioned getting a discreet gpu I didn't mean an X1600. I will probably get a GF8800GT eventually, but if the 3200 with 512MB can handle the games I'm going to play first, then I can get the 8800GT later. If you go to games forums, you'll see people calling 2-year old games "old", and that's how old the games are - 2 years.

"older" is subjective. Your answer that it would work was based on the game being much older than it is. So just think about the hardware. Will the 3200 gpu with 512MB taken from main memory overclocked to 750MHz be able to keep up with an X1600 256MB? I'm guessing no.

Thanks for the suggestions on GPUs, but I'll probably be getting an 8800GT.
 05/25/2008 01:55 AM
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FrozenSteel
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If its integrated, it will struggle for games. Integrated was designed and meant for basic visual tasks, like word processing or youtube stuff, not gaming. It might play some games on low settings but not all... plus, indegrated uses cpu power which will bog the game down even more. Any examples of what you'll be playing?

@ Decembermouse, 4GB's is defiantly not overkill! I have a 64-bit Vista Home Premium OS now and am using 3.2 GB's while playing SOASE (Sins of a Solar Empire). I'm planning to get 8GB's soon due to all the RAM usage. I'd like a little slack. But of you do get 4GB's and have Vista, register and buy the 64-bit version for 10 dollars using your license.

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 05/25/2008 10:39 AM
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Decembermouse
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I was saying that under the assumption that he was playing games that were actually old, as the only cards he mentioned were the 1600 and 3200, I'd think that having 4GB wouldn't be so much worth it for two reasons: 1) older games, 2) either gfx card would become a bottleneck if he tried to play newer games, so what's the use in having a generous amount of RAM

no, 4GB is definitely not overkill for newer games. Last couple machines I built used 4GB with Vista 64. It's just that older games wouldn't really so much take advantage of that. Newer games, once again, yes they do. But I'd also get a nicer graphics card alongside 4GB.

Also, remember how Vista dynamically scales itself to use a certain percentage of your RAM, no matter how much you have.

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Edited: 05/25/2008 at 01:40 PM by Decembermouse
 05/25/2008 02:45 PM
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PorscheRacer14
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I built a computer for my parents using the 780G motherboard and a Radeon 3450 GPU for hybrid graphics. I used a Phenom 8750 tri-core and 4GB of Mushkin 1066MHz DDR2 with 5-5-5-15 timings. My dad plays BF2 mostly as the main game and it handles the game nicely at maximum graphics settings at the 1200x900 resolution (or whatever the highest resolution in the game is allowed). It plays fine, loads quick and in his Vista X64 he scores a 4.0 with the Vista Index. This system is not overclocked at all.

If you like to play with all the eye candy for newer and older titles this solution may work but not for most cutting edge games coming out. Yes, it is DX 10.1 and works awesome on watching HD video, DVD's and so on and it's a totally silent solution. But if you really want to play the games correctly and do it on a good budget I'd say get a 770X board and get a 3850 512MB card that's been factory overclocked. These cards will be getting cheaper too, since the 4000 series is arriving shortly. Or else you can always hold out for the 4800 series and use the IGP of the 780G board. They also have a 780GX board arriving soon that will have the new SB750 southbridge on the motherboard which will greatly improve RAID setups and AHCI disk setups along with better USB and HD audio and have a faster IGP.

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 05/25/2008 04:12 PM
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Decembermouse
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Hmm, interesting, I didn't know the 3450 was so capable. I'd agree with Porsche on the 770X and 3850, he's right, if you can stand to wait a couple weeks the prices on them should be going down.

@Porsche- do you know whenabouts SB750 will be released? I really want to see what it does for Phenom OC-ing.

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 05/25/2008 06:23 PM
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Kab
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SB750 rears it's head near end of June AFAIK

RS780 would do really well against the X1600... I'd say it's about half as good as the HD 2600XT. 3600 series is also not as good as the 2600XT in many tests and games, I've had them in many systems. We swapped for the new 3600 series cards but they lagged behind our older 2600 series cards, so we went back.

Wait for next 3 weeks or so.. IIRC first 790GX will get revealed and that's much better than 780G whilst still integrated.

I'm running a Gigabyte 780G and an ASRock 780G myself (although having problems with them that I can't work out).
 05/25/2008 07:35 PM
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Locutus1
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Originally posted by: PorscheRacer14

I built a computer for my parents using the 780G motherboard and a Radeon 3450 GPU for hybrid graphics. I used a Phenom 8750 tri-core and 4GB of Mushkin 1066MHz DDR2 with 5-5-5-15 timings. My dad plays BF2 mostly as the main game and it handles the game nicely at maximum graphics settings at the 1200x900 resolution (or whatever the highest resolution in the game is allowed). It plays fine, loads quick and in his Vista X64 he scores a 4.0 with the Vista Index. This system is not overclocked at all.



If you like to play with all the eye candy for newer and older titles this solution may work but not for most cutting edge games coming out. Yes, it is DX 10.1 and works awesome on watching HD video, DVD's and so on and it's a totally silent solution. But if you really want to play the games correctly and do it on a good budget I'd say get a 770X board and get a 3850 512MB card that's been factory overclocked. These cards will be getting cheaper too, since the 4000 series is arriving shortly. Or else you can always hold out for the 4800 series and use the IGP of the 780G board. They also have a 780GX board arriving soon that will have the new SB750 southbridge on the motherboard which will greatly improve RAID setups and AHCI disk setups along with better USB and HD audio and have a faster IGP.


The board I'm leaning towards is Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H. If you go to their site, the 770 chipset is listed as supporting Phenom tri-core but not quadcore. The 780G supports the quadcore. I'll also be playing at 1680 x 1050. I think I'll give up on the integrated gpu. As far as the 3850 goes, I'm not opposed to it. There are people who swear by ATI and others who swear by Nvidia. I had been planning on a 8800GT but I'll see what the prices are when I decide to buy.

Edited: 05/25/2008 at 07:46 PM by Locutus1
 05/25/2008 07:38 PM
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Decembermouse
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What, that's just a quote of Porsche.

End of June? *whine*

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 05/25/2008 07:47 PM
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Locutus1
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Originally posted by: Decembermouse

What, that's just a quote of Porsche.



End of June? *whine*


It is?
 05/25/2008 08:34 PM
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Kab
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Originally posted by: Locutus1

The board I'm leaning towards is Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H. If you go to their site, the 770 chipset is listed as supporting Phenom tri-core but not quadcore.


770 can run quad-core fine.

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/3019/332728gt2.png
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/8198/2800nx7.png

It runs it better than RS780, it's designed to.

790GX should've been out by 20-25 May, but it was pushed out mainly due to the SB issues.
 05/25/2008 08:44 PM
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Decembermouse
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Weird, no I'm seeing it now. A refresh didn't show anything but Porsche's quote before. Quirky forum... they should check up on it. It's developing a mind of its own, or that ghost in the machine.

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 05/25/2008 11:50 PM
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Locutus1
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Originally posted by: Decembermouse

Weird, no I'm seeing it now. A refresh didn't show anything but Porsche's quote before. Quirky forum... they should check up on it. It's developing a mind of its own, or that ghost in the machine.


Heh heh. I'm just messin with ya! I posted only his quote accidentally. I then edited my post. Heh heh.
 05/26/2008 12:23 AM
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Locutus1
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Originally posted by: Kab

SB750 rears it's head near end of June AFAIK



RS780 would do really well against the X1600... I'd say it's about half as good as the HD 2600XT. 3600 series is also not as good as the 2600XT in many tests and games, I've had them in many systems. We swapped for the new 3600 series cards but they lagged behind our older 2600 series cards, so we went back.



Wait for next 3 weeks or so.. IIRC first 790GX will get revealed and that's much better than 780G whilst still integrated.



I'm running a Gigabyte 780G and an ASRock 780G myself (although having problems with them that I can't work out).


RS780 is the same thing as 780G? I only know the chipsets by the names 770, 780G, 790X and 790FX. That's what's on Gigabyte's site.

What's IIRC? Is the 790GX meant for hardcore gamers with several pci-e 16x slots. I only need one. It sounds interesting though. I'll check back later.

I looked it up on wikipedia. It comes with Radeon 3300 instead of Radeon 3200. Is that a big difference.

Edited: 05/26/2008 at 12:34 AM by Locutus1
 05/26/2008 12:56 AM
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PorscheRacer14
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As far as I know, the 780GX has an IGP called the 3300 but it's basically a 3200 that's been overclocked and should support side-band memory for better performance. I'm guessing using the same setup as I had in my parents and moving to the 790GX board with the side-port or side-band memory, or whatever it's called, will probably, at the most, get you a Vista Index score of 4.3 to 4.5 or so. I can't see it going any higher than that.

On that note, I used to have two X1600 Pro's in my motherboard in Crossfire and the highest I could ever get was 4.3 in Vista X64 with some pretty good overclocking on the CPU, DDR memory and both video cards overclocked slightly. And it was quite a chore back then to overclock both cards in Crossfire. I think I had maybe 4.4, but anyways, those cards have fans which are good, but not silent, and two of those cards do require some power.

In this regard, the Hybrid Crossfire way with the 780G (or GX) motherboard is a very good value for being silent, cheap and powerful, along with a bunch of options and features. To future proof it, a good, powerful, single, dedicated GPU is the best way to go. I have to admit though, my parents Hybrid Crossfire worked right out of the box when the drivers installed and automatically set it up in Crossfire. I can tell you it was a lot harder 2.5 years ago doing this, and the drivers were pretty finicky.

*I also forgot to mention that most 780G boards do not support the 125 watt TDP processors. That's why I went for a higher clocked tri-core 2.4GHz rather than a slower 2.3GHz quadcore. That, and more headroom on the tri-cores to overclock. But you shouldn't need to OC these chips yet anyways.

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 05/26/2008 02:39 AM
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Decembermouse
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Heh heh... is there anything we actually discuss here that we really need? Trickson might say so, and it'd be pretty ***** hard to live without, but I bet most people here overclock more often than they floss.

Speaking of overclocking the X3's, these guys got it to 3.0GHz (1.45V) without breaking 45 deg. C:
http://www.hothardware.com/Art...Core_Processor/?page=2

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 05/26/2008 05:49 PM
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Kab
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Originally posted by: Locutus1

RS780 is the same thing as 780G?

Yes, it's called RS780.

I only know the chipsets by the names 770, 780G, 790X and 790FX. That's what's on Gigabyte's site.

I don't have any of my roadmap data here but from a quick recap. There's 740G, 780V, 780G, 790GX (RS780D), 790X and 790FX.

What's IIRC?

If I Remember Correctly, a common used acronym

Is the 790GX meant for hardcore gamers with several pci-e 16x slots. I only need one. It sounds interesting though. I'll check back later.

No, it's meant to be the best integrated solution. Hardcore gamers, even semi-enthusiast don't game on integrated solutions

I looked it up on wikipedia. It comes with Radeon 3300 instead of Radeon 3200. Is that a big difference.

There's a big difference between HD 3100 and HD 3200 and from what I've heard, 790GX is excellent (even 780G is excellent...)
http://my.ocworkbench.com/bbs/...ad.php?p=426358


There's a 2GHz 65W Phenom coming out soon as well. I don't think online journalists know yet... let me do a quick search..

Found a link here: http://www.hkepc.com/?id=1118


X3 range from 2.1GHz to 2.4GHz so far (8450, 8550, 8650 and 8750).
 05/26/2008 09:03 PM
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PorscheRacer14
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Ahhh yeah, the 780GX is more powerful due to it being clocked higher and having access to UMA (side-band) memory and also some fo the motherboards RAM. It's also supposed to have better PCI-E signals, at least that's what I remember seeing in a preview. I wish I could have held out longer for that since the 780G is a really, really good motherboard for it's price and performance. Hope to see the 780GX review in normal IGP, Hybrid Crossfire and CrossfireX soon!

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 05/26/2008 09:38 PM
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Kab
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How come you're calling it 780GX Porsche?
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