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Topic Title: AMD 6400+ upgrade in dell dimension E521
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Created On: 04/10/2009 09:48 PM
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 04/10/2009 09:48 PM
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Toine3
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I want to upgrade my Dell Dimension E521 CPU: AMD Athlon X2 64 4200+ ADA42001AA5CU 89Watt, stepping/revision F2. The Mobo is Dell OCT103 versionA03
Did some search and figured out that the new AMD7750 does not work due the AM2+ Dell Bios issue.
I could not figure out if the AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+ would work, it is a AM2 CPU so it will fit, but will my Bios accept it, could not find anything on the web and the stepping/revision is F3.
Please help because the 6400+ will become very rare item now a days.

Edited: 04/10/2009 at 10:04 PM by Toine3
 04/10/2009 11:58 PM
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Heffy
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Well, I'm afraid I have to answer the same as that guy on the Dell forums did (yes, I know everything)... The problem is both the BIOS and the motherboard. The best this model has ever been fitted with is a 5600+ 89W. The reason is that not all AM2 motherboards can handle 125W CPUs. Which is probably the case with this one, at the time it was designed and built there were no CPUs with such a high voltage.

Well, Dell does not offer any technical info about this motherboard, so a 6400+ may or may not work with it. But it would be a risky and costly bet to discover whether it does.

I've read posts about people having upgraded successfully to a 6000+ 89W, though, so it's the best upgrade solution, in my opinion.

Oh, and no, a 6400+ won't be recognized by your BIOS.

You may find some additional details here.
 04/11/2009 05:19 AM
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Toine3
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Thanks, I have read also at the Dell forum, the Dell E521 can manage a Athlon 64 X2 6000+ 125 Watt CPU. So I think the 6400+ should not be given any problems at the 125W, I will cost me only a bigger PSU.
I aways had in mind that the Bios should recognize the CPU, if the Athlon 64 X2 6000+ 125 Watt CPU is recognize then I will allso be recognize the Athlon 6400+ 125Watt CPU, because they have the same revision F3 and Cmos90Nm, only the core speed is 200Mhz higher and the 6400+ is a black edition. (I'm I right about eqeal CPU?) Can I check something in the bios I have the last Bios installed or at the Setup???

Below is a listing of the CPU's and my stock one for a better look at the CPU spec's.
AMD CPU
The 4200+ is my actual CPU.

Edited: 04/11/2009 at 05:30 AM by Toine3
 04/11/2009 06:17 AM
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kazgirl
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Hi well if the BIOS supports the 6000+ doesn't necessarily mean that it will automatically fully support the 6400+.... the BIOS' code is normally updated to add support for newer CPU's, to take into consideration the differing voltage requirements, addittional settings in the BIOS.... for example the 6000+ has a max multiplier of x15, the 6400+ has a x16 multiplier... the BIOS code will therefore usually require an update to fully detect the CPU and make the necessary changes to availability of settings in the motherboard BIOS...!!

It is possible that the mobo will POST with the 6400+ installed however if the BIOS hasn't been uopdated to include the specific model info then it won't report the CPU version to the OS etc.... the other possibility is that it will refuse to POST at all...

There are other issues when it comes to OEM PC's as well... they (OEM's- like DELL) often limit BIOS support for a reason, they will know the other components used to build individual systems, such as PSU, mobo etc.... if the mobo's PWM section (Power Management) isn't sufficent for a higher TDP part for example, or the PSU used for the system isn't adequate for the additional power requirements of a higher TDP CPU, or a more powerful Graphics card....etc..etc...!!

This is part of the problem when buying an OEM PC, and then subsequently wanting to upgrade the PC yourself.... its often difficult to get the added support that's needed to accomodate upgrades...!!

Your safest option is to use the max supported CPU as recommended by the OEM..... or to replace the mobo with a known brand with more accessible BIOS support...!!

-------------------------

3DMark06 = 20717 / 3DMark Vantage = P13618 / My Overclock Guide / My Troubleshooting Guide
 04/11/2009 06:40 AM
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Toine3
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According to Dell it is even not to Upgrade, but its prove that you can upgrade to 6000+.
Is there a way to check/confirm this 6400+setup in the bios or setup.
 04/11/2009 02:03 PM
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grndragon57
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The Dell heatsink is rated for 89 Watts maximum. There was alot on the Dell forums a year or so about this upgrade. A number of people had used the 6000 and said it worked, but the temps were a little high.

-------------------------
Athlon 64 X2 4800 @ 3000mhz, Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro, Biostar 520 A2, 2x1gb G.Skill DDR2 800, EVGA 8800 GT, Corsair VX450, Cooler Master Centurion 534,

Phenom II 720 @ 3700mhz, Zigmatek Dark Knight S1283V, EVGA 730a, 2x2gb G.Skill PI-Black DDR2 1066, EVGA GTX 260, Corsair VX550, CM 690 Case
 04/11/2009 02:42 PM
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Toine3
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Right, they using the 90Nm and even the newer 65Nm 6000+ Cpu.
The difference between the 6400+ and 6000+ in 125Watt version is 200Ghz. The difference between a 6400+ and the 6000+ (89Watt version) is only 100Ghz only the L2 cache is lower 512, (the 6400+ and 6000+ 125Watt L2 cache is 1024).
So still I think if the Bios regonize the 6000+ then it should also regonize the 6400+



Please help me, somebody at this AMD forum must have the kowledge???

note additional info:
Nbridge Nvidia Gforce6150 revA2
Sbridge Nvidia Nforce 410/430MCP rev A2

Edited: 04/12/2009 at 04:42 PM by Toine3
 04/13/2009 05:43 PM
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jsktx
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You've asked this question on at least three forums that I know of. I even answered your post on the Dell forum, but for benefit of everyone else. The 6400+ will run on a E521, but runs way to hot for the integrated heatsink of the E521. It's not a standard bracket so you can't install an aftermarket heatsink unless you mod the motherboard (which has been done). So if you install it with the existing heatsink you'd be risking overheating the processor and random shutdowns that go with it.

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Dell Inspiron 531 - AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+ 3.2Ghz - 8GB Dual-Channel DDR2 SDRAM 800MHz - WD 320GB 7200RPM SATA - ASUS GeForce 210 1GB Silent - LG GSA-H73N 16X CD/DVD+/-RW - Antec NeoPower 430W PSU - Windows 7 x64 SP1 - Dell 19" SE198WFP Widescreen Monitor

Dell Vostro 460 - Intel Core i7 2600 @ 3.4Ghz - 16GB Daul Channel DDR3 @ 1333Mhz - Kingston 240GB SATA III SSD - Seagate 320GB SATA HDD - 16X DVD-ROM - 16X DVD-RW - Windows 7 x64 SP1 - Dell E2211H 22" Widescreen Monitor

Edited: 04/13/2009 at 06:00 PM by jsktx
 04/13/2009 06:26 PM
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kazgirl
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Originally posted by: Toine3

Right, they using the 90Nm and even the newer 65Nm 6000+ Cpu.

The difference between the 6400+ and 6000+ in 125Watt version is 200Ghz. The difference between a 6400+ and the 6000+ (89Watt version) is only 100Ghz only the L2 cache is lower 512, (the 6400+ and 6000+ 125Watt L2 cache is 1024).

So still I think if the Bios regonize the 6000+ then it should also regonize the 6400+


Please help me, somebody at this AMD forum must have the kowledge???

note additional info:

Nbridge Nvidia Gforce6150 revA2

Sbridge Nvidia Nforce 410/430MCP rev A2



Just spend $50 and buy a new motherboard...... for the love of Pete...!!!

If you insist on using the current motherboard, then just install the thing and try it out, it seems you've made your mind up to do it n matter what anyone says anyway...so just go ahead and do it already...!!!!!

You've been told repeatedly it seems....that it may well work, but its not advisable..... there's your answer.... if you want to try it anyway, then you can go ahead and try it... it may work for a while, you may find temps high and the lifespan of the CPU degraded as a result, but this may be acceptable anyway if you plan to upgrade again...

I would strongly recommend however that the next time you upgrade that you avoid an OEM PC to avoid this sort of scenario in the future...!!!

-------------------------

3DMark06 = 20717 / 3DMark Vantage = P13618 / My Overclock Guide / My Troubleshooting Guide
 04/13/2009 06:36 PM
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grndragon57
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The only problem with replacing the motherboard is that the E521 uses a BTX motherboard so you will need an ATX case to fit the new motherboard. I went through this when trying to upgrade my E510.

-------------------------
Athlon 64 X2 4800 @ 3000mhz, Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro, Biostar 520 A2, 2x1gb G.Skill DDR2 800, EVGA 8800 GT, Corsair VX450, Cooler Master Centurion 534,

Phenom II 720 @ 3700mhz, Zigmatek Dark Knight S1283V, EVGA 730a, 2x2gb G.Skill PI-Black DDR2 1066, EVGA GTX 260, Corsair VX550, CM 690 Case
 04/13/2009 06:53 PM
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kazgirl
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Yet another reason to avoid the OEM's like Dell it seems.... I know when I changed up from the Acer PC I had, that I will never go back to an OEM again..... it's much more satisfying having made my own PC, and it makes it a lot easier to upgrade as well....!

-------------------------

3DMark06 = 20717 / 3DMark Vantage = P13618 / My Overclock Guide / My Troubleshooting Guide
 04/14/2009 09:36 AM
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Toine3
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Thank you all for the help, but a bit off a reply from my point of view here because I need only facts about: is the 6400+ working or not in my Dell E521..
Infact a got a link from a person who did the job and I'm trying to contact him for his advice. Heat is indeed a problem but I will be suplied with a heatsink and a Dell can only be limited overclocked.
Why I'm such in a hurry and uses 3 forums (whow I'm tracked) is because: I have only a limited time because the offer has a limited period and suply is short and AMD ended the prodution.
Why not a beter mobo is indeed because of the PC case and who knows it will cost me another DVD/cardreaders etc because the leadconectors do not fit. And it will be more expensive because then I do not want to go for another a limited Mobo like the Dell.

But please guys stay to the Topic, read my first message and give me only a reply if you have any experience (tags: 6400+ and Dell) or know some interesting links or info. And please do not get frustrated because there is noting like a stupid question and I'm not a native Englisch speaker thats why I'm sometimes not that clear, sorry about this!
Thanks you all for helping me

Edited: 04/14/2009 at 10:46 AM by Toine3
 04/14/2009 11:28 AM
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kazgirl
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Hi toine...

Sorry for being a bit OFF the in the last couple fo posts.... I have occassional bad days... more so of late...

To reply to your post above, there have been a number of replies already... the fact is that yes the 6400+ may work OK, however you will need to take into consideration other factors....such as power supply, power regulation, heat, BIOS support...!!

These are all issues that no definitive inofmratin can be given on, as you are using an OEM Dell PC.... there is a reason why DELL limits support in this fashion that is twofold IMO...
[list]1. That they will have used components that are compatible with one another in terms of power requirements, heat & cooling, etc..etc....as a means of keeping productin costs as low as possible to increase the profits from sales........ so upgrading or changing parts may result in reduced/limited performance/incompatability.
2. They restrict the availability of support to ensure that customers who wish to upgrade are forced to do so via DELL's own customer service, so they can charge the customer and increase profitability.[/list]

If you are keen computer enthusiast or intend to take this route, then your best option would IMO to buy or build a new PC with custom components... which will in most cases improve the upgradeability of a PC...!!!

I wish you all the best with your planned upgrade and future PC use...

-------------------------

3DMark06 = 20717 / 3DMark Vantage = P13618 / My Overclock Guide / My Troubleshooting Guide
 04/16/2009 04:54 PM
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Toine3
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Thanks but the AMD 64 X2 6400+ is solt out in my country or some supplier do ask to much $$$$. I want to thank everybody for there help here .
If you are intented to upgrade the E521 CPU to the AMD 6400+ here a very good site:
http://computerwine.blogspot.c...ell-desktop-e521.html

I'm now going to a AMD quad system using an old ATX case and use part from the Dell. Mobo will be AM3 & DDR3 based, so I'm prepared for a future CPU upgrade.
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