When AMD released the Spider platform I could not wait to build one, even though I hesitated in doing so. The first release Phenoms (xx00) had a bug that I was hoping AMD would fix, before I would take on my first Spider. When the second generation Phenoms were released (xx50) I read up on the reviews and saw that it was a better CPU. So I decided to proceed with building my Spider. The specs are as follows:

Phenom X4 9850
ASUS M3A32-MVP DELUXE/WIFI-AP Motherboard (790FX NB 600SB)
4 GB DDR2 1066 Crucial Ballistix Tracers (4x1GB Matched Set)
2 512MB 3870 Toxics (Sapphire)
750W Rosewell Power-supply
Thermaltake Xasier 6 Case
and an assortment of fans, HDDs ODD, to complete the build.

I still wanted more GPU power so after saving a bit more money I got two more 3970s, This time I got the 1GB version Toxics from Sapphire.

I spent alot of time struggling to over clock the 9850, and 3.0 seemed to be its max on an air cooler (Nirvana 120). I didn't want to break into the liquid cooling yet, and to this day I still haven't. So as AMD released faster CPUs I followed with each one in turn.

When WD released the 10,000 RPM VelociRaptor I had to have a pair of them in RAID 0 ........ so the motherboard got an upgrade to the ASUS M3A79-T Deluxe, (790FX NB 750 SB) The CPU was the 9950 and I put a Thermaltake Tough Power 1200W Power-supply in at the same time.

I ran this for a while until the release of the Phenom II 940. This was a direct drop and what a difference in performance that made. I was blown away with its benchmarks, and I was able to overclock this one to 3.7 stable, but it was way to hot with the current CPU cooler, so I went to the Ultra Chill TEC.

This didn't go as well as I had hoped, it did drop the CPU temps a lot, but it wasn't long before the TEC burned up trying to keep the Phenom II cool, so I have to go back down to stock clocks.

Finally I made the last upgrade that truly pushes the limits on the Spider platform, and had brought up the question, is it even a Spider anymore?

I left the AM2+ and moved to AM3 and DDR3 memory, put aside the Phenom II 940 and went to the 965. I also moved from the ASUS motherboard, and went with an MSI designed board, because the PCIE slots were better spaced (790FX-GD70 790FX NB 750 SB)

So the final specs to date:

AMD Phenom II x4 965,
8 Gigabytes, DDR3 16000 G.Skill Memory,
4x Sapphire Toxic HD3870,
MSI 790FX-GD70 Motherboard,
ProlimaTech Megahalems CPU cooler sporting one Scythe Slipstream 120mm fan and one (Scythe) 140 mm (1900 RPM) fan (110 CFM),
2x WD VelociRaptor 300GB drives (Operating Systems)
2x Seagate Barracuda 1TB drives (storage)
1x Hitachi Deskstar 1TB Drive (storage)
2x DVD combo drives
1500W SilverStone power supply
4x 140mm Scythe (1900 RPM) case fans (110 CFM)
1x 140mm Areo cool case fans (38 CFM)
1x 120mm Thermaltake case fans (who knows)
2x Logisys Liquid Neon lights.

So I put the question to the AMD forums:
Has the "Black Widow" Morphed into a Dragon?

What do you think? and at what stage in her development did she cross that line?

Here are a few pictures for your viewing pleasure,

[L=http://i287.photobucket.com/al...ftheBlackWidow051.jpg
]http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll129/XTremdreamer/Rebuild%20and%20Mod%20of%20the%20Black%20Widow/RebuildandModoftheBlackWidow051.jpg
[/L]

[L=http://i287.photobucket.com/al...ftheBlackWidow036.jpg
]http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll129/XTremdreamer/RebuildandModoftheBlackWidow036.jpg
[/L]

[L=http://i287.photobucket.com/al...ckWidowsPhotos065.jpg
]http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll129/XTremdreamer/Rebuild%20and%20Mod%20of%20the%20Black%20Widow/TheBlackWidowsPhotos065.jpg
[/L]

[L=http://i287.photobucket.com/al...heBlackWidow042-1.jpg
]http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll129/XTremdreamer/Rebuild%20and%20Mod%20of%20the%20Black%20Widow/RebuildandModoftheBlackWidow042-1.jpg
[/L]

Here is a few results of benchmarks of the final build

[L=http://i287.photobucket.com/al...hots/216893DMarks.jpg
]http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll129/XTremdreamer/screen%20shots/216893DMarks.jpg
[/L]

[L=http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll129/XTremdreamer/screen%20shots/VantageP14077.jpg
[/L]

Thanks and if you have any other questions I would love to answer them.

I Edited the Second link, Sorry I just realize I has two of the same.

-------------------------

"The Black Widow"
AMD Phenom II x4 965,
8 Gigabytes, DDR3 16000 G.Skill Memory,
4x Sapphire Toxic HD3870,
MSI 790FX-GD70 Motherboard,
ProlimaTech Megahalems CPU cooler

Edited: 11/03/2009 at 10:02 AM by X-tremedreamer

It's neither, Dragon requires that an HD48xx series card be in the system, your still on the 38xx series


but I never understood why people put so much credence inthe "platform" thing. it's a merketing gimmick, one I thought people would never be crazy enough to follow....I've been way wrong.


Anyway, upgrade the card, and you'll have the current platform until it gets upgraded again.


also, you should consider putting that rig in the ROTM competition.

-------------------------



PCnMotion

TRP Raptor Bowl 2010 Overclocking Competition Sign up now and enjoy the fun! (Jan 1st - 16th)

Im sorry ROTM? I dont understand

-------------------------

"The Black Widow"
AMD Phenom II x4 965,
8 Gigabytes, DDR3 16000 G.Skill Memory,
4x Sapphire Toxic HD3870,
MSI 790FX-GD70 Motherboard,
ProlimaTech Megahalems CPU cooler

Rig of the Month: http://forums.amd.com/forum/me...=121312&enterthread=y




-------------------------



PCnMotion

TRP Raptor Bowl 2010 Overclocking Competition Sign up now and enjoy the fun! (Jan 1st - 16th)

Ok this got all messed up. I don't know why so I am going to try to post the links again. Maybe this time they will work.
Cable Management

Motherboard side with panel on

Back and side view

Front and Side

Inside

And a few screen shots of 3DMark 06 and Vantage

3DMark06

Vantage

So I hope that you all enjoy the pics, and I welcome all comments.

-------------------------

"The Black Widow"
AMD Phenom II x4 965,
8 Gigabytes, DDR3 16000 G.Skill Memory,
4x Sapphire Toxic HD3870,
MSI 790FX-GD70 Motherboard,
ProlimaTech Megahalems CPU cooler

Nice rig!

-------------------------
(Main rig) Phenom II 955 be @3.8Ghz,Asus M4A78T-E 790GX, 4x1Gb Crucial 1333Mhz DDR3, 2x 4870's, ,Corsair tx750w PSU, Thermaltake V9 case.
(2nd rig)Phenom 9850 BE@2.6Ghz, Asus M3A78, 2x2Gb Crucial Ballistix 800Mhz DDR2,Radeon 4650,Creative extreme audio,Sparkle 550w PSU

NICE SYSTEM
My system is a wyvern a hybird dragon LOL
MSI DKA 790GX
AMD PHENOM 11x4 940BE
NVIDIA gtx 285

i was building the dragon when i was told it means nothing and that its marketing or a guideline to follow the nvidia gtx 260 was better choice value over hd 4870 cant crossfire but i up to gtx285

i would go with the HD5xxx series DX11 but you still wouldnt have a dragon but a new hybird

a three headed dragon anyone? or would you prefer the six headed version?

-------------------------
AMD PhenomII 955
MSI 790FX-GD70
2X2GB Kingston KHX 1625MHz
Sapphire Radeon HD 4870
xigmatek nepartak s983

With the performance of this rig at the moment it may be the 6xxx series before I see the need to upgrade. At the moment I am at the limit of the CPU, not the GPU. One day I may ger the money to liguid cool the CPU and push it past the 4.2Ghz mark and get more performance yet. From what bmarks I have seen, I feel I can make a bold statement ( I welcome someone to show me wrong ) but thies four 3870s out perform anything that nVidia has, and curent ATI single GPUs and the 4870 x 2 ant the GTX 295. (SLI or Crossfire on a single card) This is however speculation, because I havent seen any benchmarks of the above mentioned GPUs on a 3.8 Ghz CPU. If anyone has seen suck or has any benchmarks to compair, please link.

Here is one I have seen compairing the 5870, 4870x2, and 4890
Radion HD

I think the only one that would beat my scores is the 4870 x2 or any of the above GPUs in Crossfire. What I am waiting on is a single GPU that can put up the same score. Then I will see a substantual performance gain with a GPU upgrade.

hummmmmm maybe I better duck ..........

-------------------------

"The Black Widow"
AMD Phenom II x4 965,
8 Gigabytes, DDR3 16000 G.Skill Memory,
4x Sapphire Toxic HD3870,
MSI 790FX-GD70 Motherboard,
ProlimaTech Megahalems CPU cooler

Hate to burst your bubble,but 4.2ghz on a 940 is a bit of a pipe dream,on water anyway,maybe with DI or LN2,you would be trying to achieve an 1.2ghz overclock,not going to happen on water,lol!!!!!

-------------------------
AMD 965BE @4.032GHZ 24/7 VCORE 1.528v TEMPS 32C/52C
MSI 790FX GD70
3 X SAPPHIRE 4890 OC's 991/1100
4 GIG G-SKILL RIPJAWS 1600 @ 7 7 7 24 1.65v RUNNING @1680MHZ
4 SAMSUNG F1 750 GIG SATA II HDD's 2X RAID 0
THERMALTAKE ARMOR+ FULL TOWER CASE
THERMALTAKE TOUGHPOWER MODULAR 850W
THERMALTAKE BIGWATER 760IS WC
28" HANNS-G LCD 1920X1200 3ms
WINDOWS 7 ULTIMATE 32bit OS

its a 965 BE. yes your 4 3870 do beat me 285 in benchmarks. i had two hd3850 and i didnt like them problems with games mybe it was drivers, and warhammer wouldnt work with dual gpu i returned them quickly and went to single gpu nvidia
and been happy. i was making a comment because you talk about dragon platform
and in a year who knows dx11 5870 well some day will be useful myabe then i will switch to 5800 ok i wont waiting on nvidia to release there 300 sereis. there i took a side NVIDIA! benchmarks are fun but gaming to me were it counts and i belive in single gpus works best for me in gaming

http://service.futuremark.com/...1569254&resultType=19

and yes i have seen single gtx 295 out bench your 4 3870
dont know about ATI gpus

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=5611

Thanks for your post. I two noticed a few bugs when the 3xxx series came out, and Windows XP turned out to be the biggest factor. Vista I saw some marked improvements, but stability was a bigger issue. With Windows 7 I get the best of both worlds. I just saw a post by Immortal Lobster that has a slew of Vantage and 3DMark benches that are much higher then mine. (I like to know that I can be wrong sometimes.) Maybe I have hit the limit of these GPUs, maybe a pair of 5870x2s is what I need to blast bast the competition.
hummmmmmmm

lets see what happens during their release.

-------------------------

"The Black Widow"
AMD Phenom II x4 965,
8 Gigabytes, DDR3 16000 G.Skill Memory,
4x Sapphire Toxic HD3870,
MSI 790FX-GD70 Motherboard,
ProlimaTech Megahalems CPU cooler

Yeah, I gotcha pretty easily bud....





-------------------------

Nice post Buckshot,
To put this in perspective however 2x 4870x2 is near = to 4x 4870 (19k overall)
4x 3870 (14k over all)
That's roughly 5k and some change difference
So at the moment I am glad I waited on the upgrade for the GPUs. The cost would have been ridicules for the performance difference I would have seen.

-------------------------

"The Black Widow"
AMD Phenom II x4 965,
8 Gigabytes, DDR3 16000 G.Skill Memory,
4x Sapphire Toxic HD3870,
MSI 790FX-GD70 Motherboard,
ProlimaTech Megahalems CPU cooler

Marking ploy aside, Lets get back to the original question. only one post has his idea, I am curious what other people think?


Has the "Black Widow" Morphed into a Dragon?

What do you think? and at what stage in her development did she cross that line?

And Thank you IM for your reply, but I think there are more people out there with different opinions.

-------------------------

"The Black Widow"
AMD Phenom II x4 965,
8 Gigabytes, DDR3 16000 G.Skill Memory,
4x Sapphire Toxic HD3870,
MSI 790FX-GD70 Motherboard,
ProlimaTech Megahalems CPU cooler

Has the "Black Widow" Morphed into a Dragon?

No, You need to be running 48xx series cards (ie, 4830, 4850, 4870, 4890) with 7xx series chipset and a phenom II cpu to be a dragon according to amd.

And it just mean that your using all the latest amd hardware and not how good your system is. I mean some one could have a PhenomII 902e cpu 780g chipset with one 4830 video card and that would be a dragon. would this be faster than yours? no, So I would't put much stock in this dragon thing.

-------------------------
(Main rig) Phenom II 955 be @3.8Ghz,Asus M4A78T-E 790GX, 4x1Gb Crucial 1333Mhz DDR3, 2x 4870's, ,Corsair tx750w PSU, Thermaltake V9 case.
(2nd rig)Phenom 9850 BE@2.6Ghz, Asus M3A78, 2x2Gb Crucial Ballistix 800Mhz DDR2,Radeon 4650,Creative extreme audio,Sparkle 550w PSU

Face it your rig is a mutt....LOL.....BUT, that is not a bad thing....Mutts are scrappers, tough and hard that sometimes have even better qualities than a pure breed.

By definition "Dragon", which has been already addressed a couple of times in this thread, you would need to swap your 38xx series graphics cards out with 48xx series cards, then you could proclaim this title.....but you would also want to change the case out as that would be false advertizing......LOL.

So performance-wise you are up there, but you are neither a spider nor a dragon at this point. AMD defined the platform architecture, so this is not opinion based replies.....factually speaking as per AMD if you want a dragon sell off your 3870's and get at least one 48xx series graphics card.

-------------------------

I agree with you buckshot, however some of my colleges fail to agree. It has been argued heatedly what it is. I feel it is still a spider, not a dragon. I will admit that it wasn't what AMD had pictured when the "Spider Platform" was launched a couple of years ago, however I would concede that it is the best of both worlds, and neither spider or dragon. That being said, I will probably build another system before I upgrade or rebuild this one. This rig is just a small step in my builds, and one I will keep for a good long while. five years from now the Widow will be equivalent of a boat anchor. That's when I will look at a new build ........... Thank you for your opinion and your remarks.

I have to say that this is my first build that I spent so much time on its form. All my builds before I have only modded for function. Cutting holes for fans, porting for better air flow, or some other modification that would serve for performance only. This rig is my first mod, and yes I am very proud for my first attempt. Your posts have given me a sense of where this rid stands in the greater scheme of things.

ImmortalLobster, thank you for letting my post my rig in the Forum rig of the month. I did enjoy watching the tie for first lasted for a bit, though PC-Guru started to run away with the show ....... to bad he pulled out. Moorhen2 Congratulations, as I think you finally edged out ahead.

-------------------------

"The Black Widow"
AMD Phenom II x4 965,
8 Gigabytes, DDR3 16000 G.Skill Memory,
4x Sapphire Toxic HD3870,
MSI 790FX-GD70 Motherboard,
ProlimaTech Megahalems CPU cooler

Again, what does it matter what it is?? Like several have said before, it's just a marketing ploy, who cares if it's a "Spider" or a "Dragon"? You've got a nice system, everybody can see that. Why would anyone argue "heatedly" what it is?? LOL

-------------------------
Phenom II 965BE Quad (125W) @ 3.6GHz - 1.4 Vcore
NB @ 2400 1.275V HT @ 2400 1.22V
ASUS M4A79-T Deluxe MB
Xigmatek HDT-SD964 CPU cooler with dual fan setup
4 GB G-Skill DDR3 @ 1600 Mhz (2 x 2GB) 9-9-9-24 1.64V
Saphire Radeon HD Vapor-X 4870 DDR5 1GB
Corsair 750TX 750W PSU
WD Caviar Black 640GB OS drive
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 250GB HD - x2 -- RAID 1
Antec 900 Two Mid Tower case
Vista Home Premium 64bit/Windows 7 RC - Dual boot

I agree, you cares whats its called, if you want to call it a spider than its a spider, I'll call it a kick but rig and something to be proud about

-------------------------
(Main rig) Phenom II 955 be @3.8Ghz,Asus M4A78T-E 790GX, 4x1Gb Crucial 1333Mhz DDR3, 2x 4870's, ,Corsair tx750w PSU, Thermaltake V9 case.
(2nd rig)Phenom 9850 BE@2.6Ghz, Asus M3A78, 2x2Gb Crucial Ballistix 800Mhz DDR2,Radeon 4650,Creative extreme audio,Sparkle 550w PSU