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Topic Title: Memory question ECC vs. ECC-R ?
Topic Summary: I'm building dual Opteron 2378, Tyan n3600B S2927A2NRF-E
Created On: 03/28/2009 02:04 AM
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 03/28/2009 02:04 AM
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cosurgi
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Hi, I'm building a workstation for doing scientific calculations. I'll use most of the stuff from my previous workstation.

I just bought two Opterons 2378 for 265.49 USD and a mainboard Tyan n3600B S2927A2NRF-E. Now I'm wondering about memory, maybe you can help me?

I don't know what is the difference between ECC and ECC-Registered memory. I can only see that ECC-R is more expensive. Wikipedia article is only about ECC variant, and says nothing about ECC-R which makes me baffled. But in the shops I can see both variants ECC and ECC-R...

I'm not quite sure, but the motherboard manual http://www.tyan.com/manuals/S2927_UG_v1_1.pdf says that "Registered / ECC" is used. Which is unclear for me:

- does the motherboard work ONLY with ECC-R ?
- or does it work with both variants, ECC and ECC-R ?

- does anybody know if linux is reporting ECC errors through kernel messages?

I would be grateful for any help from you.
 03/28/2009 02:17 AM
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PC-GURU -
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Originally posted by: cosurgi

Hi, I'm building a workstation for doing scientific calculations. I'll use most of the stuff from my previous workstation.



I just bought two Opterons 2378 for 265.49 USD and a mainboard Tyan n3600B S2927A2NRF-E. Now I'm wondering about memory, maybe you can help me?



I don't know what is the difference between ECC and ECC-Registered memory. I can only see that ECC-R is more expensive. Wikipedia article is only about ECC variant, and says nothing about ECC-R which makes me baffled. But in the shops I can see both variants ECC and ECC-R...



I'm not quite sure, but the motherboard manual http://www.tyan.com/manuals/S2927_UG_v1_1.pdf says that "Registered / ECC" is used. Which is unclear for me:



- does the motherboard work ONLY with ECC-R ?

- or does it work with both variants, ECC and ECC-R ?



- does anybody know if linux is reporting ECC errors through kernel messages?



I would be grateful for any help from you.


In short ECC registered use on board buffer to increase the amount of memory that can be used. It allows for a higher proficiency of the amount to be buffered in case of a packet loss to prevent system failure BSOD hick ups the works.

ECC none registered will use the on board ram with out a buffer to be used as a buffer, thus limiting the amount of ram used.

you can NOT use none buffered in a board that only uses registered and visa verse.

what info I have on this board is it only supports ECC none buffered.

thus the 32 gig limit.

-------------------------
AMD phenom II 1090T @ 4.23 Ghz custom water cooled
Asrock 890 FX deluxe 3 mother board
4 GB DDR 3 1600 @ 1688 Mhz 7 7 7 24 T1 2688 Mhz NB
2x 1 TB WD Sata III 64 mb cache HDD,s raid 0
2x 5870 HD @ 1015/1300 Asus reference
Dual OS win 7 x64 ultimate & win 7 x32 Ultimate (bench os)
 03/28/2009 09:18 AM
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cosurgi
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Originally posted by: PC-GURU -
what info I have on this board is it only supports ECC none buffered.

thus the 32 gig limit.


"ECC none buffered" is ECC or ECC-R ?
I guess that "ECC none registered" is ECC, right?

If I understand you correctly, you mean that the motherboard built-in memory buffer used by ECC-R has size which doesn't allow more than 32 GB. And that the memory supported is only ECC-R ? I'm sorry for being so confused.
 03/28/2009 12:31 PM
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PC-GURU -
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no not quite

ECC-R on each stick has BUFFER built in where as ECC does not.

But from my understanding ECC-R based server boards will aloow up to 64 GiG of ram.

Your board uses the (ECC) ram not (ECC-R) ram.

Don't stress it, Don't matter how much scientific calculations your doing you wont touch 8 gig of ram little less 32 gig of ram unless your doing mad video recoding.

You would have to loading about 5 gig + of data to memory on a temp process basis to come close to using all 8 gig.

I have been able to do this a few times taking a 4.7 GiG to 7 GiG 2 hour Mpeg high quality high res movie and recoding it to Mpeg 4 or AVI. System used 7.82 GiG of ram and 1.6 GiG of paging file lol.

-------------------------
AMD phenom II 1090T @ 4.23 Ghz custom water cooled
Asrock 890 FX deluxe 3 mother board
4 GB DDR 3 1600 @ 1688 Mhz 7 7 7 24 T1 2688 Mhz NB
2x 1 TB WD Sata III 64 mb cache HDD,s raid 0
2x 5870 HD @ 1015/1300 Asus reference
Dual OS win 7 x64 ultimate & win 7 x32 Ultimate (bench os)
 03/28/2009 03:21 PM
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iaw4
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I need almost the same help. the tyan s2912G2NR is a steal of a motherboard right now. it has eight DDR2 240pin slots. I know that ECC Registered DDR2 is better, but I don't want to pay this much. (It costs about two times as much, and I need a good number of these machines with full RAM complements.) Now, the board says "ECC Supported: Yes. Registered: Yes". I presume with the memory controller sitting on the opterons themselves (I am planning to use Shanghai 2376), it is a function of the processor what DDR2 RAM I can put into the slot. so, will the board boot up if I purchase plain unregistered non-ECC consumer DDR2 RAM and stick it into the motherboard?
 03/28/2009 04:21 PM
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The ECC function is controlled by the chip set not the on board memory controller. They say no but I think yes. I used standard ECC none registered on a registered board a few times with no problems of any kind.

The board was made by Asus so I have no idea the outcome with this board. I used the Gskill ECC ram and it worked great.

I am showing this ram as choice pick for this board. The Gskill I used don't look to be listed any more.

Link

that ram is listed on there website as tested and passed.

-------------------------
AMD phenom II 1090T @ 4.23 Ghz custom water cooled
Asrock 890 FX deluxe 3 mother board
4 GB DDR 3 1600 @ 1688 Mhz 7 7 7 24 T1 2688 Mhz NB
2x 1 TB WD Sata III 64 mb cache HDD,s raid 0
2x 5870 HD @ 1015/1300 Asus reference
Dual OS win 7 x64 ultimate & win 7 x32 Ultimate (bench os)
 03/29/2009 01:21 PM
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cosurgi
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Thanks for your reply and the link to ram.

Originally posted by: PC-GURU -
Don't stress it, Don't matter how much scientific calculations your doing you wont touch 8 gig of ram little less 32 gig of ram unless your doing mad video recoding.

my calculations actually would easily consume 1TB of ram. So if I can put 64GB into this board, this is good news for me. I'll talk to my professor if we can purchase that much. It's discrete modelling - the more nodes you have, the more precise the result, while calculations are still very fast. So instead of 1e5 nodes I'm going to use 1e8 nodes, and get better results.

Now, last time, to make it totally clear for me: with ECC I can have 32GB and with ECC-R I can have 64GB ?

Originally posted by: PC-GURU -
Your board uses the (ECC) ram not (ECC-R) ram.

oops, I missed this one. But are you sure? The salesperson who sold me the board says that ir uses ECC-R, and actually I wanted to ask here if ECC is accepted. And you say that only ECC works? I still cannot figure this out from the manual: http://www.tyan.com/manuals/S2927_UG_v1_1.pdf

Edited: 03/29/2009 at 01:29 PM by cosurgi
 03/29/2009 01:53 PM
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PC-GURU -
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looking over the board specs it will use ECC- fully R ram like the ones I listed but the board caps at 32 gig of ram.

The manufactures have listed the north bridge as having a limit to 32 gig max on ram.

If your using that much computing your CPU,s will be your bottleneck now.

this is where we need dual and quad phenom II boards lol.

picture dual 3.7 Ghz phenom II,s with a total of 17 mb of cache and your 64 gig of DDR 2 1066 and not your limit of DDR 2 667.

-------------------------
AMD phenom II 1090T @ 4.23 Ghz custom water cooled
Asrock 890 FX deluxe 3 mother board
4 GB DDR 3 1600 @ 1688 Mhz 7 7 7 24 T1 2688 Mhz NB
2x 1 TB WD Sata III 64 mb cache HDD,s raid 0
2x 5870 HD @ 1015/1300 Asus reference
Dual OS win 7 x64 ultimate & win 7 x32 Ultimate (bench os)
 04/03/2009 02:19 PM
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ozman
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2xxx and 8xxx Opterons only support registered dimms memory and all registered dimms support ECC therefore the name registered ECC dimms. As noted above registered ECC will give you more reliability as well as more memory capacity than unbuffered memory typically used in desktops as well as in Opteron 1xxx at the expense of some performance due to ECC processing, etc. I believe error correction you may be able to turn off in BIOS setup.

You definitively can not use any other but registered ECC dimms with Opteron 2xxx. The motherboard manual should state so.
 04/03/2009 02:36 PM
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PC-GURU -
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YEP

Like I told him his pick was ECC Fully R only based on manufacture memory pics.

-------------------------
AMD phenom II 1090T @ 4.23 Ghz custom water cooled
Asrock 890 FX deluxe 3 mother board
4 GB DDR 3 1600 @ 1688 Mhz 7 7 7 24 T1 2688 Mhz NB
2x 1 TB WD Sata III 64 mb cache HDD,s raid 0
2x 5870 HD @ 1015/1300 Asus reference
Dual OS win 7 x64 ultimate & win 7 x32 Ultimate (bench os)
 04/03/2009 04:43 PM
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cosurgi
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Now I came to another problem - I cannot find anywhere how many ranks that motherboard supports. I want 32GB 800MHz (4*8=32), but all 800MHz 4GB sticks are dual-rank, which means that I need 16 ranks. And it's not clear if I the motherboard has them. All single rank 4GB sticks that I was able to find are only 667MHz.

I tried contacting tyan on two different contact emails and no response in 7 days.
 04/03/2009 04:44 PM
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cosurgi
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(in 7 days so far...)
 04/26/2009 07:20 AM
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cosurgi
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well... it works with eight 4GB dual rank kingston sticks, 800MHz. I will have 32GB I just need to resolve the SAS controller issue, and I'll have a great new workstation.
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