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Topic Title: water cooling questions
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Created On: 02/22/2005 10:56 AM
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 02/22/2005 10:56 AM
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90porsche944s2
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i have heard of different types of water blocks (spiral,maze,divet etc) and i know that certain ones work better for certain processors. i am going to eventually be making my own water system and was wondering which type is the best for the A64? does anyone know, if not does anyone know of any good links that might be helpful?

thanks
bobby

-------------------------
A8n-sli deluxe bios 1.004
A64 3200+ winchester at 2.2ghz 32C at idle w/ stock HSF
2x512 corsair xms pc3200C2 2-3-3-6 o/c to 220mhz 2.6v(stock)
connect 3d Radeon x600 pro 256mb
enermax whisper II 460w w/ 33A on the 12v rail
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 02/25/2005 03:50 AM
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Pro Kid
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Well last time I heard the WhiteWater was the king of water blocks. This block is made by DTek Customs. Even better then that is the Cascade block that is custom made by a man that goes by the alias of Cathar. These cost $200 because they are made using silver instead of copper. Though the difference between the Cascade and the WhiteWater is usually only a few degrees. So it really isn't worth it unless you are trying to get the absolute best performance. But things may have changed since then.

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 02/25/2005 10:11 AM
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Le_Petit_Lapin
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Lol....I dunno, I'm using a DangerDen Maze 4 waterblock and its doing a fine job of keeping the processor cool. I chose this block as my pump isnt very powerful, and this block works better with a low power pump.

If you're getting a high power pump, get a D-Den TDX or RBX block, these ones work better with massive water pressure, though, if you go this route, you will want a big radiator as well as the high power pump will really force the water through a small radiator, causing it to be in and out of the radiator very rapidly and with little chance to be cooled.

I thouroughly reccommend watercooling though as it takes a massive CHUNK off your temperatures, and its pretty [content edited] silent.

Lastly, dont buy cheap kit. You'll regret it. If you are looking for cheap get a high end air cooling system instead, they will do a better job than a low end watercooling kit.
 02/25/2005 10:15 AM
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danmagicman7
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QUOTE (Le_Petit_Lapin @ Feb 25 2005, 09:11 AM) If you're getting a high power pump, get a D-Den TDX or RBX block, these ones work better with massive water pressure, though, if you go this route, you will want a big radiator as well as the high power pump will really force the water through a small radiator, causing it to be in and out of the radiator very rapidly and with little chance to be cooled.
If the water moves fast it also gets a smaller "chance" of getting heated, too. It's better to have the water to faster.

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 02/25/2005 11:45 AM
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Le_Petit_Lapin
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QUOTE If the water moves fast it also gets a smaller "chance" of getting heated, too.

Isnt that a BAD thing?.....you want the water to get heated so it takes the heat away from your CPU.

Slow flow Watercooling kits work just as well you know, they spend more time heating up and also more time cooling down again in the radiatiors.
 02/25/2005 05:20 PM
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90porsche944s2
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I was going to mill my own block out of copper stock. I am an engineering student so i have access to the machine shop here on campus. I am not looking to buy a water block, i am looking to make one. I have heard that different styles of blocks tend to work better for different processors because of die size, hot spots, heat output etc. i think that procs with small heat contact areas tend to like the low restriction, inlet aimed at where the core is type. while large contact areas like more of the maze and spiral type. not positive about these facts but that is why i am asking.

And about the faster moving water not absorbing as much heat that is a good thing, it means that because the water is moving faster, each molecule will not absorb as much heat in a cycle. But it will absorb heat in more cycles in a given time period. That means that if the water is moving at 2x the rate, each molecule will absorb heat and realease it 2x as many times. the cooler the water cooling the block, the more heat it will absorb. so a higher water flow is better to an extent, after that more waterflow wont do jack. i do eventually want to make a chipset and a vga water block. maybe eventually even ones for my ram.

-------------------------
A8n-sli deluxe bios 1.004
A64 3200+ winchester at 2.2ghz 32C at idle w/ stock HSF
2x512 corsair xms pc3200C2 2-3-3-6 o/c to 220mhz 2.6v(stock)
connect 3d Radeon x600 pro 256mb
enermax whisper II 460w w/ 33A on the 12v rail
2 40gb PATA hdds
1 120mm, 3 80mm case fans
everything runs pearl and cool
 02/28/2005 09:56 AM
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Le_Petit_Lapin
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QUOTE And about the faster moving water not absorbing as much heat that is a good thing, it means that because the water is moving faster, each molecule will not absorb as much heat in a cycle. But it will absorb heat in more cycles in a given time period. That means that if the water is moving at 2x the rate, each molecule will absorb heat and realease it 2x as many times. the cooler the water cooling the block, the more heat it will absorb. so a higher water flow is better to an extent, after that more waterflow wont do jack. i do eventually want to make a chipset and a vga water block. maybe eventually even ones for my ram.

No. The faster you move the water also makes the water move faster through the radiator, therefore cooling the water less due to the short time spent in the radiator.

So folowing your own example: the water moves at 1/2 the speed, so therefore heats up 2x the ammount through the waterblock, but then also its moving at 1/2 the speed through the radiator as well so it also cools down 2x the ammount per "cycle".

Now, I'm not against fast flow water cooling systems, I'm just saying, dont discount slow moving water cooling systems, as they are just as good at cooling as fast flow systems.

Danger Den is an advocate of the Fast Flow method of cooling, whereas Innovatech (a German company) are advocates of the slow flow cooling method. Both methods will cool your PC just as well as the other.
 02/28/2005 12:54 PM
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90porsche944s2
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i understand that in all cases more flow is not always better, it just depends on the application. higher turbulance works better with low flow while low restriction works better with high flow(from what i have heard anyway).

-------------------------
A8n-sli deluxe bios 1.004
A64 3200+ winchester at 2.2ghz 32C at idle w/ stock HSF
2x512 corsair xms pc3200C2 2-3-3-6 o/c to 220mhz 2.6v(stock)
connect 3d Radeon x600 pro 256mb
enermax whisper II 460w w/ 33A on the 12v rail
2 40gb PATA hdds
1 120mm, 3 80mm case fans
everything runs pearl and cool
 03/01/2005 09:49 AM
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Le_Petit_Lapin
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QUOTE (90porsche944s2 @ Feb 28 2005, 09:54 AM) i understand that in all cases more flow is not always better, it just depends on the application.  higher turbulance works better with low flow while low restriction works better with high flow(from what i have heard anyway).
Add to that the fact that high flow systems usually use 1/2" ID pipes (at least) with thick outer walls, which are somewhat of a [content edited] to get bend just the way you want them.

Well....I had trouble with them.....but I think I might have just cut the tubing legnths too long.
 03/01/2005 10:40 AM
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90porsche944s2
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i plan on soldering copper tubing so that in the event of a leak from the nylon hose to the copper tube, it will be far away from my components. I am also debating the idea of a water return rail. have all the 'hot' water go to a single rail that goes to the radiator which then goes back to the reservoir. this way the water goes fast through the blocks and then slow through the radiator. Is this a good idea or is this going to make such a small difference as to not matter?

-------------------------
A8n-sli deluxe bios 1.004
A64 3200+ winchester at 2.2ghz 32C at idle w/ stock HSF
2x512 corsair xms pc3200C2 2-3-3-6 o/c to 220mhz 2.6v(stock)
connect 3d Radeon x600 pro 256mb
enermax whisper II 460w w/ 33A on the 12v rail
2 40gb PATA hdds
1 120mm, 3 80mm case fans
everything runs pearl and cool
 03/01/2005 10:49 AM
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Le_Petit_Lapin
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QUOTE (90porsche944s2 @ Mar 1 2005, 07:40 AM) i plan on soldering copper tubing so that in the event of a leak from the nylon hose to the copper tube, it will be far away from my components. I am also debating the idea of a water return rail. have all the 'hot' water go to a single rail that goes to the radiator which then goes back to the reservoir. this way the water goes fast through the blocks and then slow through the radiator. Is this a good idea or is this going to make such a small difference as to not matter?
Do what?

lol....I think that question went way above my grasp of plumbing.
 03/01/2005 10:57 AM
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90porsche944s2
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you know how most people have the block barbed with the tubing to the barbs, instead i want to put copper tubing out away from the blocks and make the connections away from the curcuit boards.

by a return rail i mean have the water outs of all the blocks go to a common channel before going to the radiator, this way i can have the water sit in the radiator longer (going to make the radiator with a larger inside cross sectional area then the incoming line.

-------------------------
A8n-sli deluxe bios 1.004
A64 3200+ winchester at 2.2ghz 32C at idle w/ stock HSF
2x512 corsair xms pc3200C2 2-3-3-6 o/c to 220mhz 2.6v(stock)
connect 3d Radeon x600 pro 256mb
enermax whisper II 460w w/ 33A on the 12v rail
2 40gb PATA hdds
1 120mm, 3 80mm case fans
everything runs pearl and cool
 03/01/2005 11:13 AM
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Le_Petit_Lapin
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QUOTE you know how most people have the block barbed with the tubing to the barbs, instead i want to put copper tubing out away from the blocks and make the connections away from the curcuit boards.

I got you there, you basically mean extend the barbs with welded on bits of copper pipe, so that you have the connectors placed far away from the motherboard, etc? Seems like a good idea to me, leaks would be less of a worry. How good are your welding skills?

QUOTE by a return rail i mean have the water outs of all the blocks go to a common channel before going to the radiator, this way i can have the water sit in the radiator longer (going to make the radiator with a larger inside cross sectional area then the incoming line.

Nope....I'm still lost there. Surely ALL watercooling kits meet up before they go through the radiator anyway. Perhaps I have the wrong meaning in my head (still...) but wouldnt it just be a better idea to buy a 120.3 Heatercore Radiator instead, with its three 120mm fan mounts and an absolutely MASSIVE surface area, it should give you all the cooling you need.

Lol.....while youre at it how about aquiring some flat rectangular copper pipe and sticking a few TEC's to the outlside of it, somewhere where the condensation wont be a problem? Chilled water in your system cant be a bad thing.....
 03/01/2005 11:41 AM
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90porsche944s2
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I thought about that. a copper resevoir with fins sticking into it. i am not going for max cooling, i am more going for quieter. eventually maybe max cooling, but right now i am on more of a budget. and i was thinking more along the lines of soldering then welding. i am actually very good at soldering and i have a small pen torch which will make the job much easier. i have been debating quite a few 'weird ideas' too. dunno the practicality of it or if it will even work let alone if it will be worth it.

-------------------------
A8n-sli deluxe bios 1.004
A64 3200+ winchester at 2.2ghz 32C at idle w/ stock HSF
2x512 corsair xms pc3200C2 2-3-3-6 o/c to 220mhz 2.6v(stock)
connect 3d Radeon x600 pro 256mb
enermax whisper II 460w w/ 33A on the 12v rail
2 40gb PATA hdds
1 120mm, 3 80mm case fans
everything runs pearl and cool
 03/01/2005 12:36 PM
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Le_Petit_Lapin
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QUOTE (90porsche944s2 @ Mar 1 2005, 08:41 AM) I thought about that. a copper resevoir with fins sticking into it. i am not going for max cooling, i am more going for quieter. eventually maybe max cooling, but right now i am on more of a budget. and i was thinking more along the lines of soldering then welding. i am actually very good at soldering and i have a small pen torch which will make the job much easier. i have been debating quite a few 'weird ideas' too. dunno the practicality of it or if it will even work let alone if it will be worth it.
You wont get too much extra cooling from the res. just by sticking a few copper fins to it. Ideally you would want the water flowing through these extra fins that you attach, like it is in the rest of the res.

Solder....lol......dont talk to me about solder..... I made a mess of a GFX card the other day thinking I could solder it back into a working state again. But hey, if you're good at it I dont see why it shouldnt work. I doubt the pressure in the system would be enough to "blow out" the solder. As a precautionary measure, you could just wrap PFPC tape about the join for added peace of mind.
 03/01/2005 01:28 PM
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90porsche944s2
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i meant if i was going to cool the water with a peltier i would use a copper res with copper fins in it. i am going to be soldering copper piping, not a circuit board lol. i have a circuit writer for the boards

-------------------------
A8n-sli deluxe bios 1.004
A64 3200+ winchester at 2.2ghz 32C at idle w/ stock HSF
2x512 corsair xms pc3200C2 2-3-3-6 o/c to 220mhz 2.6v(stock)
connect 3d Radeon x600 pro 256mb
enermax whisper II 460w w/ 33A on the 12v rail
2 40gb PATA hdds
1 120mm, 3 80mm case fans
everything runs pearl and cool
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