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Topic Title: Problems gaming on my X2
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Created On: 08/11/2005 02:45 AM
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 08/11/2005 02:45 AM
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Karmashock
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None of my games that are based on the Unreal engine are doing very well under my Athlon X2 4200+ system. What's stranger still is that their behavior is not consistent. For example, about 90% of the time that Unreal 2003 is booted up, it runs SUPER fast. As in the little guy that breaks out of the nVidia logo does it in about half a second. Other games like Pariah won't even load. But both games give the same error: "negative delta time" then something about 'main world loop'. I can be more specific if required. Then the other ten percent of the time, it runs perfectly. Smooth as [content edited] and a pleasure to use.

Recently I installed painkiller. It worked fine the first time I played it. However, after unloading and reloading the game everything is crazy. The game technically runs just fine. However, it's running at what seems to be double speed. Monsters come at me really really fast and I blend them up just as fast. The game doesn't error out, but unless I'm in a time warp, there is a problem.

All the games running on the Halflife 2 engine work perfectly and I have no complaints.


I have 'tried' to update the processor drivers, however the ones downloaded from the AMD website refuse to install because a previous version has already been installed. They will not install over them and the old versions regenerate if you try to uninstall them... which means I can't really do anything.


I've played with my Motherboard's dynamic OCing tools to see if I can get it to run my precious unreal games. But so far no luck. Everything else works just fine though... which is the most annoying part. With the exception of a few games everything is grand. But honestly value of the system is spoiled for me if I can't play what are really my favorite games.



I don't know if I'm giving too much or too little information. I assume I'm not the first, so I'm just describing it basically. If I am the first, then I'll obviously have to provide a great deal more information.


To recap:
I need to know how to make my unreal games load.
Stop painkiller from running in turbo mode.
and figure out how to somehow install the newest drivers.




I've been going over the error messages, and it seems like unreal thinks the two processors are going at slightly different speeds. For example, "@2200 @2203". Where the first processor is being said to go at 2.2Ghz and the second processor is being said to go at 2.203Ghz.

I don't get this in most games, but I assume that might be because they're only using one of the processors or can somehow magically deal with two processors running at different speeds.


This is annoying... help.
 08/11/2005 07:54 AM
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NeVaDa74
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Have you tried updating the drivers? Instead of just trying install an exe file, or uninstalling the old ones, you may be able to "update" from the device manager..... just a thought /smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

-------------------------
 08/11/2005 02:17 PM
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Dwyvyrn
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QUOTE(Karmashock @ Aug 11 2005, 01:45 AM)None of my games that are based on the Unreal engine are doing very well under my Athlon X2 4200+ system. What's stranger still is that their behavior is not consistent. For example, about 90% of the time that Unreal 2003 is booted up, it runs SUPER fast. As in the little guy that breaks out of the nVidia logo does it in about half a second. Other games like Pariah won't even load. But both games give the same error: "negative delta time" then something about 'main world loop'. I can be more specific if required. Then the other ten percent of the time, it runs perfectly. Smooth as [content edited] and a pleasure to use.

Recently I installed painkiller. It worked fine the first time I played it. However, after unloading and reloading the game everything is crazy. The game technically runs just fine. However, it's running at what seems to be double speed. Monsters come at me really really fast and I blend them up just as fast. The game doesn't error out, but unless I'm in a time warp, there is a problem.

All the games running on the Halflife 2 engine work perfectly and I have no complaints.
I have 'tried' to update the processor drivers, however the ones downloaded from the AMD website refuse to install because a previous version has already been installed. They will not install over them and the old versions regenerate if you try to uninstall them... which means I can't really do anything.
I've played with my Motherboard's dynamic OCing tools to see if I can get it to run my precious unreal games. But so far no luck. Everything else works just fine though... which is the most annoying part. With the exception of a few games everything is grand. But honestly value of the system is spoiled for me if I can't play what are really my favorite games.
I don't know if I'm giving too much or too little information. I assume I'm not the first, so I'm just describing it basically. If I am the first, then I'll obviously have to provide a great deal more information.
To recap:
I need to know how to make my unreal games load.
Stop painkiller from running in turbo mode.
and figure out how to somehow install the newest drivers.
Help. /mellow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mellow.gif' />
[right][snapback]478689[/snapback][/right]


I'm having the same problems with Lineage II. I start the game up and it shuts right back down with that axact error code 9 out of ten times I try to get in. On the one time it works I get into the game and only periodically have any other issues. Sometimes running the game for hours without any problems.

I have also noticed that "slow" character movement. This happens as well with Lineage 2. Somestimes it only requires me to shutdown the program and wait a minute before logging back in, which I have to do anyway while trying to get past the other error code.

I have the latest CPU drivers from the AMD site. I have the latest Motherboard BIOS from Asus. I'm stuck in the same spot...

Only difference being I have the 4400+...
 08/11/2005 03:52 PM
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Karmashock
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Well, I got Unreal 2003 to work by adding "-cpuspeed=2200" to a shortcut. It also seems to have fixed painkiller... but not pariah.


This is annoying.


What I have noticed in the error messages is that the two processors are detected as running at different speeds. I was able to override this in those two games, but I imagine that most games will not allow me to override processor detection.
 08/11/2005 05:26 PM
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ken328
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This seems to be a common problem with all the X2 CPUs, I reported the problem via the web contact on AMD site, so please report yours too, more ppl report always make things being fixed faster.

In my case, I got the same problem on those games:

Everquest 1
Need for speed underground 2
Summoner
Colin mcrae rally 04
Simcity 3000

I did many tests for over a month, I got the conclusion:

- AMD keep tell me that it is a problem of CnQ, but I have it DISABLED in BIOS all the time, also, those problem never appear if I just switch my X2 4200+ back to my old 3500+, of course other hardware remain the same. If this is a CnQ issue, the 3500+ should have problem too.

- It is not a problem about those games not support dual core/processors, I tested all of them on both a Dual Xeon and a Pentium D 820 machines, no problem appear at all.

- AMD's new CPU driver for X2 will automatically add a string "/usepmtimer" in the boot.ini file, it fixed the shutter problem appear in NFSU2, but not other 3 games, show that there are actually 2 different bugs on the X2s, one of them can be fixed by this method, the other cannot.

After almost 2 weeks of dueling with the AMD staff, I can feel that even they know about the bugs in those X2, they don't want to face the problem, I guess, if they offically announce those bugs, that means they need to replace almost all of the X2 CPUs in the market with a new bug fixed revision.

I think, base on business concern, the 1st revision of X2s will be replaced very soon, but I don't think AMD will care about us who already paid for this buggy CPU since they can't announce there are 2 major bugs in their newest product line (or they prepared for the value of their stocks in the stock market being hit). /mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' />

-------------------------
AMD Athlon X2 4200+ E4
Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe (1013.2)
Samsung Original 1GB DDR 400 x 2 3-3-3-8-2T (TCCC)
Inno3D Geforce 7800GTX 256MB
Western Digital Raptor 74GB x 2 NVRaid 0 (4.84)
Plextor 712A
Antec Truepower 2.0 550W EPS12V
 08/12/2005 03:52 AM
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Karmashock
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First, how do I update the drivers for my X2 processor?

It won't let me. It keeps saying "pervious version detected" and it won't install until I 'uninstall' the old version. But I can't... I go into the device manager and it just keeps putting that driver back.

So please help me in updating the driver... AMD's install program has so far given me nothing but grief.

Second, how do I report the problem? I had a hard time finding my way this far... I think I was only able to get here through google... I sure as [content edited] didn't manage it through the AMD website... /mellow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mellow.gif' />
 08/12/2005 06:16 AM
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Karmashock
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Ok, I updated my processor driver (had to enter safemode, roll back the drivers to "processor", then delete ALL the registry entries for AMD, THEN while still in safe mode it allowed me to install the bloody drivers)... and it really didn't help at all. If anything, Unreal is MORE unstable.


Painkiller runs as before... it just ignores the problem... but you can see what's going on. The system stutters. Every few seconds things will either slow down or speed up depending on which cpu is dominent I suppose. As these are single threaded games I assume that one cpu is going to be responsible for more or all the processing.




I would be willing to just shut off one of the processors during these games just to get them to run properly. This is of course on a temporary basis as I assume that AMD will fix this nonsense soon. /dry.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='dry.gif' />


Here is the issue AMD. The two processors are NOT running at the same speed. Or at least every game I've played errors out because it detects them running at different speeds OR stutters between two game speeds which leads to some pretty obvious conclusions.



Sorry for the additude... but I paid a lot and expect to get value for my money.
 08/12/2005 09:12 AM
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lswartz
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Your X2 sounds to me like the old farmer & a team of horses pulling tree stumps. If they don't pull together, it is never going to work.

I think that I will wait for a while on the X2, maybe just build another A64 for my son.

Sure hope AMD gets this fixed for you soon.

-------------------------
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 08/12/2005 09:23 AM
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Karmashock
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I've verified that they're running at different speeds with AMD's own detection utility. However, they only seem to run at different speeds AFTER a game has errored out. That is they're running at the same speed prior to the game being launched... then they're otu of sync when I hit the desktop.



I think this is a general design flaw... everyone loves the whole concept of being able to reclock your processor on the fly, but that also means they can change pretty much at will. Again, this would be fine if they were moving in step... but they're obviously not.


I think that because the processors are not being demanded equally, one or the other is dynamically overclocking to increase output... thus the best intentions lead to unusability. This is just a wild guess from someone that wouldn't know one way or the other... but it grocks with the pixies fluttering in my dream box.


A response from someone who WOULD know would be appreciated. /mellow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mellow.gif' />
 08/12/2005 09:39 AM
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Glassmaster
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If something is being dynamically overclocked, that is your motherboard doing it, not the CPU itself. What motherboard are you using?

Glassmaster.

-------------------------
Power Supply Guide' ">http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=792566 Memtest86' ">http://www.memtest.org/#downiso Prime95' ">http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm SuperPI' ">http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/file.php?f=36 3dmark05' ">http://www.futuremark.com/download/?3dmark05.shtml CPU-Z' ">http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php#download <
 08/12/2005 10:13 AM
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Karmashock
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Abit AN8 Ultra

All I know is that the processor speeds are different when a game errors out.


Also, my Mobo and the amd utility disagree as to what speed the processors are going at... which is kind of strange... /mellow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mellow.gif' />

The mobo says they're running at 2200 Mhz and the amd utility says they're running at 2244mhz.

I've changed the speeds a few times and every time the two disagree about what they're actually running at. /ohmy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ohmy.gif' />


Edit: I've updated to the latest bios... no dice.
 08/12/2005 10:17 AM
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Glassmaster
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Use CPU-Z to see what speed they are running at.

Glassmaster.

-------------------------
Power Supply Guide' ">http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=792566 Memtest86' ">http://www.memtest.org/#downiso Prime95' ">http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm SuperPI' ">http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/file.php?f=36 3dmark05' ">http://www.futuremark.com/download/?3dmark05.shtml CPU-Z' ">http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php#download <
 08/12/2005 10:19 AM
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Dwyvyrn
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QUOTE(Glassmaster @ Aug 12 2005, 08:39 AM)If something is being dynamically overclocked, that is your motherboard doing it, not the CPU itself.  What motherboard are you using?

Glassmaster.
[right][snapback]479702[/snapback][/right]


ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe 1013 BIOS - Also errors on 1011


I see the same fluctuation between the two processors.

My question really is why do the games care? Outside of meeting the minimum requirements why should the games be looking for processor type and speed as long as the operating system is "happy" with it.


Additionally the AMD Power Monitor tool shows both running at 2200mhz and 1.3 while the AMD CPUInfo shows them not running at 2200... 2244/45/46 and not always the same between the two.
 08/12/2005 12:17 PM
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ken328
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QUOTE(Karmashock @ Aug 12 2005, 03:52 PM)Second, how do I report the problem? I had a hard time finding my way this far... I think I was only able to get here through google... I sure as [content edited] didn't manage it through the AMD website... /mellow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mellow.gif' />
[right][snapback]479529[/snapback][/right]


Click on the link below:

AMD Support Site' ">http://163.181.251.13/icssb2c_amd/indexStandalone.jsp

Register your account, then click on the "Contact Us" tab, then click on "New service request".

-------------------------
AMD Athlon X2 4200+ E4
Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe (1013.2)
Samsung Original 1GB DDR 400 x 2 3-3-3-8-2T (TCCC)
Inno3D Geforce 7800GTX 256MB
Western Digital Raptor 74GB x 2 NVRaid 0 (4.84)
Plextor 712A
Antec Truepower 2.0 550W EPS12V
 08/13/2005 03:04 AM
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Karmashock
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QUOTE(Dwyvyrn @ Aug 12 2005, 07:19 AM)ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe 1013 BIOS - Also errors on 1011
I see the same fluctuation between the two processors.

My question really is why do the games care?  Outside of meeting the minimum requirements why should the games be looking for processor type and speed as long as the operating system is "happy" with it.
Because the games judge 'time' by cpu speed...

Painkiller never errors out regardless of how badly it detects the processor. Awhile ago I loaded it up and I was going REALLY slowly. Not droping a single frame... but everything was going in SUPER slow mo. I get the reverse as well. Unreal notices the problem and errors out...

It's much more likely for the games to run too fast then too slow. So I guess that means that the games are Under detecting my speed. /mellow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mellow.gif' />
 08/14/2005 01:24 AM
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Karmashock
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Does anyone have a work around that would allow me to play these games?


Is it possible to turn off one core or some how LOCK them at ONE speed? Because most games can't handle the processor speeds changing.


Should I disable 'quiet and cool'?


I'll try doing that now... maybe I'll get lucky.
 08/14/2005 02:06 AM
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Karmashock
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didn't help at all to disable cool and quiet.


Abit OC Guru claims that they're IN sync before I play a game and out of sync after I play a game. This is the app you use to change the clock speed on this board.


AMD info claims that the processors are running at 2244 when OC Guru says they're at 2200... and CPU Z says they're running at 2210. What's strange is that most games play TOO fast which would lead you to believe that they're UNDER detecting the speed.... by the timing it would seem by a LOT.


I'm really confused here and would appreciate some expert attemtion... there is at least ONE actual AMD tech monitoring this board right? I mean... throw me a freakn' bone here people. /mellow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mellow.gif' />
 08/14/2005 03:59 PM
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ajc158
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Well I'm not an AMD tech, but I have been trying to get games working properly (usually successfully) for the last few days.

In order to solve the speed problem (this worked for GTA San Andreas) start the game. Then ctrl-alt-del out and task manager will appear. Select the game under processes and right click. Then select Affinity. Deselect one of the cores and you're there. Click on the game in the start menu and it should work fine.

OR..

Goto start menu, Control Panel, System, Advanced tab, Startup and Recovery button.

Click edit button and notepad will open.

Under [operating systems] add:
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="" /usepmtimer /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

For now leave the other boot option there, if this doesn't work you can always use it instead.

File, Save, then close everything and reboot. The boot menu should load up, select the option that isn't Microsoft windows XP blah, and try the game again. This should stop XP misrepresenting the speed of the processor to the game.

Between the two of these you should solve all major issues, leaving just the quibble that it seems impossible to get perfectly smooth gameplay in any game no matter how low the settings...

I guess that's something to do with the 64bit -> 32bit emulation, but I really don't know. Any AMD techs answer that one?

Oh, and this has solved none of my problems, but to disable cool n quiet just select Always on as your power profile (Start menu, control panel, Power...)
This will disable the cool n quiet. To turn it on again select minimal power saving or notebook.

Good luck,

Alex

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 08/14/2005 10:45 PM
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zygsquib
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Well, I gave up after some troubleshooting on my own, but I never really tried diagnosing the problem, just eliminating most possiblities. I had a primary system and enough parts to make another with the ATI chipset.

ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe BIOS 1011
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+
ATI X800XL 256MB
Geil 2 X 1 GB PC3200 Value RAM

Plus parts:
AMD Athlon 64 3200+
Geil 2 X 512 MB PC4200 Value RAM
Nvidia 6600GT 128MB
MSI ATI Xpress 200 chipset (or whatever) with BIOS support

With my first system, WinXP SP2 would only run for a little while without the .exe drivers installed, not to mention games. With the drivers installed and 2 CPUs showing up in task manager, I'd get the same kind of errors as described in the first post. With City of Heroes, if I left the game running for some time and came back, it would always become out of synch somehow, as if there was a timing issue. An older game, Master of Orion 2, also would show strange symptoms, not to mention the numerous crashes I had. None of this existed with my 3200+. So to eliminate the chipset/video/memory, i used the CPU in the second system, and voila! The exact same problems. Popped in the 3200+ and everything disappeared.

Although it seemed to be the CPU, I just wanted to eliminate the chipset as well. I'd just like to know if anything will be done about this, and whether a correction can be made in software somehow, or if it's a design issue.

Would AMD admit this and accept exchanges if this were a design issue?
 08/15/2005 09:59 AM
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Karmashock
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sweet, I didn't know the task manager could disable the use of one of hte processors. Can i have that option stored in a short cut or must I alt tab out every time to disable one of them on that process?

Additional: Unreal 2004 works just fine, so I think that most of the newer games won't whine at me. /smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />
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