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Topic Title: Folding/SETI
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Created On: 09/19/2006 10:11 PM
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 09/19/2006 10:11 PM
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WhiteMateria
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I will admit that SETI will always have its appeal to me, and it was my introduction to distributed computing. But I'm resolute that folding and those like it are the distributed computing projects for this generation to take up. Please ask yourself this one question...

Why in the [content edited] would aliens want to visit our planet openly when they will be treated like locked up lab animals, for the rest of their lives, by almost every government in the world?

With that being said who here still supports folding? No flaming please - I really wanted to give a little of my mind in the other posting but decided to start this thread instead. Control yourselves ladies and gentlemen.

"The aliens will come only after mankind has made the health and well being of all humans their personal responsibility! As it stands now if this planet were to be destroyed by them it could not happen to a better generation." ~ WhiteMateria

-------------------------
|| Folding@Home for potions of greater cure on Linux. [Team 51870]
|| AMD Athlon 64 3000+ 'NewCastle', S754, 2.0 GHz
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 09/19/2006 10:17 PM
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Silk_the_Absent1
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I myself am a cancer survivor, and would like to point out that the research Stanford is doing is not just about cancer. Their front page says this:

quote:

Originally posted by: Unknown Moreover, when proteins do not fold correctly (i.e. "misfold"), there can be serious consequences, including many well known diseases, such as Alzheimer's, Mad Cow (BSE), CJD, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease, and many Cancers and cancer-related syndromes.


Cancer is the last thing they mention, only after they list numerous others.

That said, in any labratory environment such as this, the amount of research used solely for gaining more funding is usually equal (if not greater then) the amount of data that is actually used. Who knows, the protein your system is chugging away on now may be used for research, but it may also be used to justify more funds going to the project. The former is more desired, the latter is more likely.

-Adam
 09/19/2006 10:28 PM
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WhiteMateria
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quote:

Originally posted by: Silk_the_Absent1
I myself am a cancer survivor, and would like to point out that the research Stanford is doing is not just about cancer. Their front page says this:
Cancer is the last thing they mention, only after they list numerous others.

That said, in any labratory environment such as this, the amount of research used solely for gaining more funding is usually equal (if not greater then) the amount of data that is actually used. Who knows, the protein your system is chugging away on now may be used for research, but it may also be used to justify more funds going to the project. The former is more desired, the latter is more likely.

-Adam



I've no doubt this is true and I will not refute it. But I will say that the desired sound like much better odds than the aliens coming to visit us openly in my lifetime. I will take my chances on those odds instead. But more importantly research like this in the past probably benifited you. Therefor you are a much better reason for me to continue folding.

-------------------------
|| Folding@Home for potions of greater cure on Linux. [Team 51870]
|| AMD Athlon 64 3000+ 'NewCastle', S754, 2.0 GHz
|| 1x512 MB CorsairVS DDR333 2.5:3:3:8:1T
|| MSI K8N Neo Platinum, nVIDIA nForce 3 250Gb
|| ATi Radeon 9550 256 MB DDR, AGP 4X/8X, RETAIL version (upgrade)
|| Seagate 4.3 GB, 4500 RPM, IDE Ultra A
 09/19/2006 10:40 PM
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Silk_the_Absent1
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quote:

Originally posted by: WhiteMateria But more importantly someone's cancer research in the past more than likely benifited you.


Not unless F@H came with a "cut-along-the-dotted-line" guide. Both of my melanoma sites (non-sunburn-related) were removed surgically. The one on my chest was small, about 1"x2", the one on my head was larger, roughly 4" long, by 2" wide.

Though, if F@H had a surgeon punctuality guide, I probably wouldn't have crashed during surgery. But that's another story.

-Adam
 09/19/2006 10:43 PM
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WhiteMateria
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I did not specifically mean from the Folding@Home project but just medical research in general of the past.
EDIT: Perhaps if surgeons had deadline minutes to get to where they need to be like protiens have dealine days.

-------------------------
|| Folding@Home for potions of greater cure on Linux. [Team 51870]
|| AMD Athlon 64 3000+ 'NewCastle', S754, 2.0 GHz
|| 1x512 MB CorsairVS DDR333 2.5:3:3:8:1T
|| MSI K8N Neo Platinum, nVIDIA nForce 3 250Gb
|| ATi Radeon 9550 256 MB DDR, AGP 4X/8X, RETAIL version (upgrade)
|| Seagate 4.3 GB, 4500 RPM, IDE Ultra A
 09/19/2006 10:58 PM
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thecrzyGreek
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There was a thread about the most worthy distrubuted computing project in the SETI forums. The guy who posted this reply claims in his profile to be a chemist working for a pharmaceutical company devolping drugs. "I'm currently working in a cardiovascular program designing theraputic compounds for chronic and acute indications." He probably is considering he is one of the smartest people I have ever talked with and he is a long time active member on the boards. Anywho this is what he said.

"I think seti@home is the most worthy. I say that because they do need raw computer power for a volume of data. That's just the way it is; there is no master equation to refine. Whereas the other projects simply use a lot of processing because it's trial and error instead of a using a model based on true understanding of the system. For example, the "protein docking" are unlikely to go anywhere because they will only do what's already in the literature. First you have to crystalize the compound onto the protein at it's binding site. Then you do the x-ray cystallography to find out where it's binding to on the protein. This is a lot of work and it's not always easy to get crystal if it's even possible. Then the modeling can begin because you have a starting point for "protein docking" because the protein is HUGE. All this means that most of the work has already been done to get to an active compound. A private company has the money to do this. A grad student might be able to do this if they have a good lead to start with. But that won't compare to a company that can screen millions of compounds. We can't just pick up a protein and use a computer to find an active molecule because the knowledge of physical electronics within a molecule is limited much much less a large protein. So, the physical nature can be experimentally probed by making active compounds which bind to different sites. After building and examining different compounds, the polarities can be mapped within the protein which will be found through binding strengths. A computer can only use this information after all the man-hours have been put in. We are at a very early stage of this process of assembly the information because there are a lot of proteins that affect our lives. Once you have a lot of data on a protein, then you can see how the molecule acts within the groups of atoms of the protein and then work of good group theory. That's when a computer will be useful. This data is primarily coming from patents and publications from large companies. Large companies are not going to let their active compound be known in a public forum like a distributed processing project nor would they release it's interaction with the protein. Major SEC no no. Thus, distributed network pojects would only consist of structures off patent several years later, well after better information is known. This means that this particular example of a distributed processing project would never add anything because it's impossible to actually get ahead in the race vs. industry with money."

-------------------------
"We have lingered long enough on the shores of the cosmic ocean. We are ready at last to set sail for the stars." - Carl Sagan
"As long as there have been humans we have searched for our place in the cosmos. Where are we? Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than there are people. We make our world significant by the courage of our
 09/20/2006 12:01 PM
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Silk_the_Absent1
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quote:

Originally posted by: WhiteMateria
EDIT: Perhaps if surgeons had deadline minutes to get to where they need to be like protiens have dealine days.


Funny, but cold comfort when you were technically dead for a short period.

-Adam
 09/20/2006 12:31 PM
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WhiteMateria
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quote:

Originally posted by: Silk_the_Absent1
Funny, but cold comfort when you were technically dead for a short period.

-Adam



I am having mixed feelings about how to reply to your comments now. So I don't know what to say and will shutup.


-------------------------
|| Folding@Home for potions of greater cure on Linux. [Team 51870]
|| AMD Athlon 64 3000+ 'NewCastle', S754, 2.0 GHz
|| 1x512 MB CorsairVS DDR333 2.5:3:3:8:1T
|| MSI K8N Neo Platinum, nVIDIA nForce 3 250Gb
|| ATi Radeon 9550 256 MB DDR, AGP 4X/8X, RETAIL version (upgrade)
|| Seagate 4.3 GB, 4500 RPM, IDE Ultra A
 09/20/2006 05:40 PM
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NyteOwl
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quote:

Originally posted by: Unknown Their front page says this

Moreover, when proteins do not fold correctly (i.e. "misfold"), there can be serious consequences, including many well known diseases, such as Alzheimer's, Mad Cow (BSE), CJD, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease, and many Cancers and cancer-related syndromes.



Not to detract from the potential for assisting in developing medical treatments, but when the Folding project started, that intoductory blurb was all about researching polymers and new uses for plastics and any mention of medical aspects were way down at the end of the info-blurb. They have since removed mention of the original commercial intent of the project from their description. That has always left me with a very ambiguous feeling about the whole thing.




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Obsolescence is just a lack of imagination. 36 Bits Forever! #include <disclaimer.h><br>Milner Manor | The Yak Shack | Caisteal Comraich
 09/20/2006 06:51 PM
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WhiteMateria
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Does anyone have anything positive to say about Folding@Home or am I just mislead sheep? Do I need to switch to another project such as Rosetta@Home?

-------------------------
|| Folding@Home for potions of greater cure on Linux. [Team 51870]
|| AMD Athlon 64 3000+ 'NewCastle', S754, 2.0 GHz
|| 1x512 MB CorsairVS DDR333 2.5:3:3:8:1T
|| MSI K8N Neo Platinum, nVIDIA nForce 3 250Gb
|| ATi Radeon 9550 256 MB DDR, AGP 4X/8X, RETAIL version (upgrade)
|| Seagate 4.3 GB, 4500 RPM, IDE Ultra A
 09/21/2006 08:30 AM
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Logan[TeamX]
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F@H is fine as they are attacking a wide range of problems. The others (although I can't speak to Rosetta) tend to be more narrowly focused.

I did UD / Grid.org for 2.5 years, and I still have an active account for myself and one for my wife, but when they said they refused to natively support SMP/SMT unless the client requests the change... we left. You can't even just install 2 copies of UD to different folders and attack it that way. It's sad, because you could be doing Oxford's cancer research that way.
 09/22/2006 11:26 PM
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thecrzyGreek
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If you think your doing the right thing, it doesn't matter what others think. I tell everyone that I have SETI@HOME on my computer, and I watch for anything cause if we think we are the only planet in this universe that has life on it like ours then we are extremely shortsighted.

-------------------------
"We have lingered long enough on the shores of the cosmic ocean. We are ready at last to set sail for the stars." - Carl Sagan
"As long as there have been humans we have searched for our place in the cosmos. Where are we? Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than there are people. We make our world significant by the courage of our
 09/22/2006 11:58 PM
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WhiteMateria
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quote:

Originally posted by: thecrzyGreek
If you think your doing the right thing, it doesn't matter what others think. I tell everyone that I have SETI@HOME on my computer, and I watch for anything cause if we think we are the only planet in this universe that has life on it like ours then we are extremely shortsighted.



I do think there is life elsewhere besides our planet. The space in the universe alone is just to mind boggling. However as we don't have space travel they will come to us on their terms - Not ours. Of course they could be just as developed as we are without the ability to really go anywhere. This could be a good thing... Universal isolation seperated by space.

-------------------------
|| Folding@Home for potions of greater cure on Linux. [Team 51870]
|| AMD Athlon 64 3000+ 'NewCastle', S754, 2.0 GHz
|| 1x512 MB CorsairVS DDR333 2.5:3:3:8:1T
|| MSI K8N Neo Platinum, nVIDIA nForce 3 250Gb
|| ATi Radeon 9550 256 MB DDR, AGP 4X/8X, RETAIL version (upgrade)
|| Seagate 4.3 GB, 4500 RPM, IDE Ultra A
 09/23/2006 12:15 PM
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vsingh
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Just do what you think will benefit mankind. I definitely think SETI will benefit humanity because of this:

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/s...c21c...ecbccdrcrd.html

^^^The red rains that fell on India in 2001 contained living material that functioned more primitively from cells found here on Earth. This could therefore prove the origins of life on this planet.
 09/23/2006 01:50 PM
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thecrzyGreek
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Yes the theory is called panspermia. Where the essential parts of life are created in comets orbiting stars. Comets conviently contain all the building blocks of life. Then you factor in the survival properties of bacteria and you can easily see how a comet could bring life to a planet by either crashing into it or the planet could move through the comets tail. Comets could both be the bringers and destroyers of all life on Earth.

http://video.google.com/videop...d=74...smos+carl+sagan

Watch that from about 17:30 to 31:30

-------------------------
"We have lingered long enough on the shores of the cosmic ocean. We are ready at last to set sail for the stars." - Carl Sagan
"As long as there have been humans we have searched for our place in the cosmos. Where are we? Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than there are people. We make our world significant by the courage of our
 09/23/2006 02:05 PM
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NyteOwl
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quote:

Originally posted by: Unknown Yes the theory is called panspermia. Where the essential parts of life are created in comets orbiting stars. Comets conviently contain all the building blocks of life. Then you factor in the survival properties of bacteria and you can easily see how a comet could bring life to a planet by either crashing into it or the planet could move through the comets tail. Comets could both be the bringers and destroyers of all life on Earth.


Yes a comet rather appears like a large spermatozoa, and if a planet (like earth) could be considered an ovum ... ... then maybe we're all just microbes swimming in a gigantic living organism



-------------------------
Obsolescence is just a lack of imagination. 36 Bits Forever! #include <disclaimer.h><br>Milner Manor | The Yak Shack | Caisteal Comraich
 09/23/2006 02:25 PM
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Silk_the_Absent1
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Well, Bill Hicks did say we are a virus with shoes...

-Adam
 09/24/2006 11:25 PM
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thecrzyGreek
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quote:

Originally posted by: NyteOwl
then maybe we're all just microbes swimming in a gigantic living organism


What if inside each atom in your body there is another universe. And what if our universe is just one atom inside the body of some other organism. What if it travels to infinity in both directions? We will probably never know but it is interesting to at least ponder these questions.

-------------------------
"We have lingered long enough on the shores of the cosmic ocean. We are ready at last to set sail for the stars." - Carl Sagan
"As long as there have been humans we have searched for our place in the cosmos. Where are we? Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than there are people. We make our world significant by the courage of our
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