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Topic Title: nforce3
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Created On: 10/06/2003 06:20 PM
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 10/06/2003 06:20 PM
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monte84
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What are some of the current problems with the nforce3? I was reading something about it having to do with the Hypertransport communicating with the AGP port..
Can anyone clarify for me?(or any other current issues)

Thanks

-monte84

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 10/06/2003 06:30 PM
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Torniojaws
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Haven't heard of any issues yet ... but as for performance, I heard the Via chips are faster in benchmarking.

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: MadOnion :
 10/06/2003 06:44 PM
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Dave Graham
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too bad nvidia doesn't have a board, eh?

the only problems i've see in reviews has been poor drivers that cause system lockups/reboots when the pci bus is saturated.

cheers,

dave

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 10/06/2003 06:47 PM
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monte84
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"Nvidia: NForce-3 Bug

The extremely low AGP performance of the NForce3 can be clearly attributed to problems with the HyperTransport channel interface to the Northbridge. That is proven by the benchmark results and the performance differences of up to 33.2 percent. Details about this can be found in the benchmark section of this article. "

http://www.tomshardware.com/cp...23/a...dia_nforce3_bug' ">http://www.tomshardware.com/cp...tml#nvidia_nforce3_bug

thats what i am referring to (toms is questionable...but there is certainly a problem...)

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 10/06/2003 06:59 PM
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monte84
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I think this happens to be fact to, I am just wanting to investigate into some of the reasons. I was reading on anandtech that the nforce3 is using a 600Mhz HT(i thinks its the speed between HT and northbridge) while VIA is at 800Mhz and that nvidia would be releasing the nforce3 250 @ 800Mhz......and i am sure immature drivers are playing a big part.

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 10/06/2003 07:03 PM
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Hikari
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QUOTE (monte84 @ Oct 6 2003, 02:47 PM)"Nvidia: NForce-3 Bug

The extremely low AGP performance of the NForce3 can be clearly attributed to problems with the HyperTransport channel interface to the Northbridge. That is proven by the benchmark results and the performance differences of up to 33.2 percent. Details about this can be found in the benchmark section of this article. "

http://www.tomshardware.com/cp...23/a...dia_nforce3_bug' ">http://www.tomshardware.com/cp...tml#nvidia_nforce3_bug

thats what i am referring to (toms is questionable...but there is certainly a problem...)
I heard nForce3 150´s HT runs at 600MHz only, but does it influence in performance for now?

But, why it doesn´t run at full 800MHz?
I suppose 800 is fron 200MHz QDR right? So, what have they done to get 600MHz and doesn´t suport 800MHz? And the support will come only with nForce3 250...
 10/06/2003 07:09 PM
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monte84
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QUOTE (Hikari @ Oct 6 2003, 03:03 PM) QUOTE (monte84 @ Oct 6 2003, 02:47 PM)"Nvidia: NForce-3 Bug

The extremely low AGP performance of the NForce3 can be clearly attributed to problems with the HyperTransport channel interface to the Northbridge. That is proven by the benchmark results and the performance differences of up to 33.2 percent. Details about this can be found in the benchmark section of this article. "

http://www.tomshardware.com/cp...23/a...dia_nforce3_bug' ">http://www.tomshardware.com/cp...tml#nvidia_nforce3_bug

thats what i am referring to (toms is questionable...but there is certainly a problem...)
I heard nForce3 150´s HT runs at 600MHz only, but does it influence in performance for now?

But, why it doesn´t run at full 800MHz?
I suppose 800 is fron 200MHz QDR right? So, what have they done to get 600MHz and doesn´t suport 800MHz? And the support will come only with nForce3 250...
I am not sure why it runs at 600MHz, but I recall that the performance gain from 600-800 is marginal..

The 800MHz or 600MHz is not coming from QDR, the hypertransport is a different story....i know little about...hence this thread

-------------------------
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NB @ 2800Mhz HTT @ 2800Mhz
Gigabyte 890FXA-UD5
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 10/06/2003 07:19 PM
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monte84
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agree....unfortunately i wont be upgrading anytime soon.

I just got me an Athlon XP 2800+ TBred and lving it......i will be going probably 3 years before an upgrade....benefits of the college life!

-------------------------
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 10/06/2003 07:22 PM
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Torniojaws
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Hmm, now that you've brought these points up, looks like the Via solution will be the primary choice for me ... strange it is, though

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: MadOnion :
 10/06/2003 07:24 PM
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monte84
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I was expecting more from the nforce 3, but i would still wait at least for the nforce3 250, or like 6months till drivers and chipsets mature a little. VIA competition id good though

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 10/06/2003 07:27 PM
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Brant
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QUOTE (monte84 @ Oct 6 2003, 03:09 PM) QUOTE (Hikari @ Oct 6 2003, 03:03 PM) QUOTE (monte84 @ Oct 6 2003, 02:47 PM)"Nvidia: NForce-3 Bug

The extremely low AGP performance of the NForce3 can be clearly attributed to problems with the HyperTransport channel interface to the Northbridge. That is proven by the benchmark results and the performance differences of up to 33.2 percent. Details about this can be found in the benchmark section of this article. "

http://www.tomshardware.com/cp...23/a...dia_nforce3_bug' ">http://www.tomshardware.com/cp...tml#nvidia_nforce3_bug

thats what i am referring to (toms is questionable...but there is certainly a problem...)
I heard nForce3 150´s HT runs at 600MHz only, but does it influence in performance for now?

But, why it doesn´t run at full 800MHz?
I suppose 800 is fron 200MHz QDR right? So, what have they done to get 600MHz and doesn´t suport 800MHz? And the support will come only with nForce3 250...
I am not sure why it runs at 600MHz, but I recall that the performance gain from 600-800 is marginal..

The 800MHz or 600MHz is not coming from QDR, the hypertransport is a different story....i know little about...hence this thread
I have heard that the nforce 3 150 runs at 600MHz because of interference issues. I think this is also why they removed the sata controller and soundstorm.

This is supposed to be resolved for the nforce 3 250.
 10/06/2003 07:33 PM
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Dave Graham
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it runs at 600mhz 'cos it is 16bit HT in one direction (processor) and 8-bit (other system components) in the other...

nVidia chose to run out of "sync" for goodness knows what reason....

cheers,

dave

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 10/06/2003 08:54 PM
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Hikari
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QUOTE (monte84 @ Oct 6 2003, 03:09 PM)I am not sure why it runs at 600MHz, but I recall that the performance gain from 600-800 is marginal..

The 800MHz or 600MHz is not coming from QDR, the hypertransport is a different story....i know little about...hence this thread
It´s marginal because CPU - RAM traffic doesn´t run though (it´s right?) it.

I know the real clock of HT is 200MHz, so the 800MHz must be because a 4x multiplier, what is Quad Data Rate.
The 600MHz´s nForce3 150 mustn´t be 4x150MHz, because the CPU multiplier is tied to it.
So I only can see the 600MHz coming fron 3x200MHz.

If my thoughts are right, I can´t understand why nVidia implemented 3x multiplier instead of 4x
 10/06/2003 08:57 PM
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Hikari
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QUOTE (Brant @ Oct 6 2003, 03:27 PM)I have heard that the nforce 3 150 runs at 600MHz because of interference issues.  I think this is also why they removed the sata controller and soundstorm.

This is supposed to be resolved for the nforce 3 250.
Hmm it´s possible!

BUT, this remenbered me of... PCChips (PCShits) K6-2 mobos that ran at 97MHz
 10/06/2003 09:19 PM
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monte84
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QUOTE (blackstar @ Oct 6 2003, 05:09 PM) questions:

a) can anyone confirm nFORCE3 250 will have SS APU? i dont see it mentioned @ nVIDIA..

2) also, anyone got any ideas about the capabilities of Abit's uGuru APU, such as 5.1 encode, processor load, sample playback definition? need 24bit onboard, for HTTPC CD players 

3) what server is this forum running off?

if the APu is good, and nVIDIA 250 doesnt have SS, the uGuru hardware sound, native LAN + firewall, and native SATA would be a great board 

not to keen on Abit's Xmas tree layout tho, with the KV8 max    make it pretty hard to find the diagnostic LED's..

hello FM peeps 
http://forums.amd.com/sponsors/' ">http://forums.amd.com/sponsors/
thats about the server

as for the SS on nforce3 good question

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 10/06/2003 10:47 PM
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QUOTE (Hikari @ Oct 6 2003, 04:54 PM) QUOTE (monte84 @ Oct 6 2003, 03:09 PM)I am not sure why it runs at 600MHz, but I recall that the performance gain from 600-800 is marginal..

The 800MHz or 600MHz is not coming from QDR, the hypertransport is a different story....i know little about...hence this thread
It´s marginal because CPU - RAM traffic doesn´t run though (it´s right?) it.

I know the real clock of HT is 200MHz, so the 800MHz must be because a 4x multiplier, what is Quad Data Rate.
The 600MHz´s nForce3 150 mustn´t be 4x150MHz, because the CPU multiplier is tied to it.
So I only can see the 600MHz coming fron 3x200MHz.

If my thoughts are right, I can´t understand why nVidia implemented 3x multiplier instead of 4x

the nForce3 not only uses only 600mhz, but also doesn't use all 16 HT lines.
Further cutting bandwidth. I think the problem is they designed it for the slower Athlon 64, and when the FX came along with more Memory bandwidth, they didn't anticipate the extra load.

As a total fan on the nForce2 (and dis-trusting of VIA) I hope nVidia gets this fixed fast.

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 10/07/2003 01:04 AM
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solofly
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Issues

The EPoX VIA K8T800 was impressively stable for a first-generation motherboard. There were no freezes, instability or unexplained crashes during week-long testing. Two 256MByte DIMMs of Corsair XMS3500C2 worked effortlessly at DDR460 speeds, all with the same stability as the stock system.

The same cannot be said about the Shuttle nForce3-powered AN50R, unfortunately. Using the same two modules, the board would often crash when installing Windows XP Professional. All settings were at default speeds. After a number of attempts the board managed to install the OS. We would still run into the odd unexplained crash here or there. It did manage to complete all of our benchmarks without too much difficulty, but one always had the nagging feeling that it may crash at any given time.

Overclocking

Both motherboards locked out manual adjustment of RAM latencies, and both attributed 2.5-3-3-14 timings at DDR400 speeds. With AMD integrating the memory controller on the CPU we didn't expect there to be a great deal of benchmarking deviation. Overclocking, by dint of a locked multiplier, was undertaken by simply raising the CPU clock. The Shuttle AN50R began running into stability problems at 218MHz (2180MHz overall speed). It would refuse to even load the OS at 2200MHz with system RAM set to 220MHz. Increasing the RAM divisor, and thereby decreasing the RAM speed, still didn't relieve us of stability problems. CPU voltage didn't help either.

The EPoX 8HDA3+, on the other hand, booted effortlessly at 2200MHz / 220MHz RAM, and it even managed decent stability at 2300MHz / 230MHz RAM. In view of this, it appears as if the Shuttle is suffering from a chipset limitation. Raising the chipset's voltage didn't solve stability problems at 220MHz.

http://www.hexus.net/content/r...JsX3Jldmlld19JRD02MzI=

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 10/07/2003 02:22 AM
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intel_fan_boy
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sound storm onboard
 10/07/2003 02:33 AM
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monte84
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yes, is sound storm returning, if so any enhancements?

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 10/07/2003 04:03 AM
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Dagalidis
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Since now VIA is the KING Of Performance and Stability.....
I saw many stability problems with nForce3 150 based Mobos....

Thats why i took an ASUS K8V Deluxe board with Via Chipset....

Right now i waiting the Arrival of my ATHLON64 3200+ to power on and see how far i can get the FSB....

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