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Topic Title: AMD64 and WindowsXP SP2 problems
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Created On: 08/25/2004 01:14 PM
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 10/19/2004 06:55 AM
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SouthernComfort
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QUOTE Ps: I'm not sure if I wanna try running offending applications mentioned in "TheNOob's suggestion Posted on Aug 29 2004, 08:25 AM"?!


Actually "TheNOob" made no suggestion at all , I think it was my suggestion you were refering to.

Keep in mind if you are NOT running SP2 the very same programs that would be ignored by selecting this are doing the same things to offend DEP that they would do if you were running SP2 , except you don't know it and your not getting the other benefits of SP2 untill MS fixes the problem , in other words your getting NO benefits of SP2 including DEP.

My suggestion also lets you know what program is causing the DEP error and allows you to troubleshoot it easier rather than getting a BSOD or a restart.

Actually so far I have only had to shut off DEP to use 2 programs:

Windows Explorer , because of any large Picture files (stuff that I NEED for work)
Internet Explorer , because of my Earthlink toolbar ScamBlocker!

And with Explorer after making my slideshows I uncheck the boxes and DEP is again protecting that program.

And with Int Explorer I removed the Scamblocker toolbar untill again MS fixes this problem , and DEP is again protecting it as well.


REMEMBER THIS Quote from a Microsoft help topic for DEP if your worried about running XP without DEP enabled for ALL programs and services:

"To use DEP, your computer must be running Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2) or later, or Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 or later. "


but the choice is yours.


ALSO I have been wondering and have a question for anyone that would know , If I am running Norton Internet Security 2004 Professional (with Norton AV in it running all the time) am I not protected from a large Virus like the type DEP is looking for?

-------------------------
ASUS M4N82 Deluxe BIOS1008 ; AMD Phenom II 965 BE with a HUGE ASUS cooler @stock ; EVGA GTX280 / XFX 9600GT PhysX ; 4gig (2x2) OCZ Reaper 1066 ; ASUS Xonar D2 ; 3 HDD's SATA 3.0gbs WD ; ; PC Power&Cooling 860 Turbo Cool ESA ; Win 7 pro 64 bit ;ASUS My Cinema-EHD3-100 PCI-e TV card
 10/20/2004 12:37 AM
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vydd
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I recently upgrade my system to AMD64 +3000/ Asus K8SV motherboard and I had a boot up problem after I installed SP2 patch. All I get was a blue screen that keep reboot itself over and over. I could not even get into safe mode. I had a non SP2 old drive that booted fine. After I contact AMD support, I was told to reinstall windows and SP2. Since then I had no problem at all. I hate to suggest this but a clean install maybe the only solution. You may want to buy a new hard drive to do a clean install then transfer your old files over.
Vy
 10/20/2004 05:16 AM
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Plater
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Vydd: That interesting that a clean install of Windows and then Service Pack 2, and now your problem is solved.
I had the same problem you had but I was able to go into safe mode and remove SP2.
It takes awhile to reinstall everything.
It would be worth it to have SP2 work.
 10/20/2004 05:51 AM
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Patrick
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just out of curiousity ..
do any of you have creative audigy 2 soundcards installed ?
=> my pc with a8v deluxe + sp2 kept crashing all the time after those drivers were installed, b4 i had no probs and used kx drivers so ...would be nice to know
thx



-------------------------
Athlon 64 3.5+ 939
MSI K8N NEO 2 Platinum edition
Asus v9999GE
2*512 XMS XLL Corsair dual chan
Antec True Blue 480W PSU
Audigy 2 zs
WinXP - SP2
 10/20/2004 06:53 AM
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SouthernComfort
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Hello Patrick ,

Yes , I have an Audigy 2 , and one of the programs that XP itself has a problem with is "CTHelper" however it is a program that helps other "3rd party" programs work better with creative products , I simply set it not to start at startup.


This link gives you info on CTHelper if you are having problems with it:

CTHelper service info' ">http://www.liutilities.com/pro...ocesslibrary/cthelper/


Also if I was to reinstall XP I too would have no problem with SP2.....untill I install the programs again that I use for work that are not compatable with DEP , remember a reinstall is a clean start , to get back to where you PC was before you will be installing Plugins , drivers , programs games (possably ) and in my case 3 DVD burning software programs , editors , slideshow makers , scanner programs , possably toolbars....and so much stuff it would take a page to list it.

I had NO problems with DEP at first , if you read one of my earlier posts in this thread you will see that my system ran for nearly a month with no DEP conflicts and then one day one of my programs that I installed (that IS NOT a virus) sent up a red flag , along with an earthlnk toolbar I really don't need.

Actually I've run XP for years now and had NO problems untill DEP installed with SP2 , do we really need DEP if we have a good virus protector allready is an interesting question to me.

Maybe I'll just ask Microsoft and see.



-------------------------
ASUS M4N82 Deluxe BIOS1008 ; AMD Phenom II 965 BE with a HUGE ASUS cooler @stock ; EVGA GTX280 / XFX 9600GT PhysX ; 4gig (2x2) OCZ Reaper 1066 ; ASUS Xonar D2 ; 3 HDD's SATA 3.0gbs WD ; ; PC Power&Cooling 860 Turbo Cool ESA ; Win 7 pro 64 bit ;ASUS My Cinema-EHD3-100 PCI-e TV card
 10/20/2004 07:06 AM
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ttreuten
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I exeperienced something similar after upgrading board and processor with WIN2K.

Soemtimes the hdd was no longer found as boot device, no safe mode boot possible, new hdd was not to be formatted since it was recognized broken or unformattable.

But I got it fixed after adjusting the system clocking inthe BIOS!

May that be an option?

greetings
tom
 10/20/2004 04:30 PM
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Patrick
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1) bios settings : what timings did you set + where plz , wanna try it out

2) CThelper : worth giving it a try , i'm going to do that, only prob is as soon as i installed the audigy's drivers , i got sound , all works well , only after restart to complete the installation of drivers , i get blue screens all the time and rarely can boot into windows. so how am i going to disable cthelper then ?

3) dep is easy to completely disable (boot.ini) , of course when enabled it's much more secure then any antivirus could be cause it works software related as well as hardware ( proc )

will let you know what happened after tryouts .

Grtz

oki here's what happened :
all worked well as it should b4 restart to finish driver installation again .

i disabled cthelper : no change
also saw several other autostart items being installed ( checked with wintasks5 )
tried to disable all ct related stuff ( you can change in safe mode ) , but then it kept stuck while booting up the os
tried only driver , without mixer , vice versa ... tried all sorts of combinations ( not all )
best i got was windows started up , played the startup sound ( welcome screen ) and after the desktop showed i got another .. oh yes .. blue screen.
It must be smth like this to make it work though . Or maybe just the creative driver is the problem ...could be it's not adapted for amd 64 yet ?
All ideas are still welcome . I want to get this working ..
till the next tide ...

-------------------------
Athlon 64 3.5+ 939
MSI K8N NEO 2 Platinum edition
Asus v9999GE
2*512 XMS XLL Corsair dual chan
Antec True Blue 480W PSU
Audigy 2 zs
WinXP - SP2
 10/20/2004 07:45 PM
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SouthernComfort
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QUOTE 1) bios settings : what timings did you set + where plz , wanna try it out

2) CThelper : worth giving it a try , i'm going to do that, only prob is as soon as i installed the audigy's drivers , i got sound , all works well , only after restart to complete the installation of drivers , i get blue screens all the time and rarely can boot into windows. so how am i going to disable cthelper then ?

3) dep is easy to completely disable (boot.ini) , of course when enabled it's much more secure then any antivirus could be cause it works software related as well as hardware ( proc )

will let you know what happened after tryouts .

Grtz

oki here's what happened :
all worked well as it should b4 restart to finish driver installation again .

i disabled cthelper : no change
also saw several other autostart items being installed ( checked with wintasks5 )
tried to disable all ct related stuff ( you can change in safe mode ) , but then it kept stuck while booting up the os
tried only driver , without mixer , vice versa ... tried all sorts of combinations ( not all )
best i got was windows started up , played the startup sound ( welcome screen ) and after the desktop showed i got another .. oh yes .. blue screen.
It must be smth like this to make it work though . Or maybe just the creative driver is the problem ...could be it's not adapted for amd 64 yet ?
All ideas are still welcome . I want to get this working ..
till the next tide ...


Hello again Patrick , I'm sorry your PC is giving you so much trouble.

Maybe you could try this:

One thing I remember about installng my Audigy2 was to ONLY INSTALL THE DRIVERS AND THE Surround Mixer/EAX DON"T INSATLL ANY OTHER SOFTWARE ON THE DISK and then go here (see below) and get the NEWEST EAX/Surround Mixer updates for the Audigy2 , but DO NOT install the stuff that came with the drivers , if you have the Creative Drive thing (the thing that goes in the 5 1/4 drive bay) don't install it or the game port , they MAY (and I say MAY) cause alot of problems with your XP:

After you get the basics installed and the PC/XP install are working ok then Run the Creative Software Auto update , and only PICK to install the newest Driver , EAX and surround mixer updates.

Creative Software Auto update' ">http://us.creative.com/support...=1033&hdDspLangID=1033

I know if you do it right it will work because mine is working awesome , but you may have to reinstall XP again (sorry ) because once some of the creative software is on there it is hard to get rid of , if I remember correctly I had to do 3 reinstalls of XP to get it just right .... but I do remember I had the same problem as you , maybe I can save you some time/trouble with this info.

I know it sounds confusing , but it works for me.

good luck!

-------------------------
ASUS M4N82 Deluxe BIOS1008 ; AMD Phenom II 965 BE with a HUGE ASUS cooler @stock ; EVGA GTX280 / XFX 9600GT PhysX ; 4gig (2x2) OCZ Reaper 1066 ; ASUS Xonar D2 ; 3 HDD's SATA 3.0gbs WD ; ; PC Power&Cooling 860 Turbo Cool ESA ; Win 7 pro 64 bit ;ASUS My Cinema-EHD3-100 PCI-e TV card
 10/21/2004 03:12 AM
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Patrick
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well i tried with clean install to perform software update on the creative site as well, but that didn't work either , although it was not quite in the way you just discribed so it might be worth a try after all.

keeping fingers crossed .

Thx for trying to help btw ( wich is more then i can say from creative efforts who stick to standard things as : put acpi pc instead of acpi uniproc , or : it's your mobo , go ask there ( boldly came to that )

EDIT:
from anandtech :

As reported in the Socket 754 roundup and the Socket 939 launch review, VIA had early problems with their PCI/AGP lock. While we continued to see problems with a working AGP/PCI lock in early 939 samples, we are pleased to report that every vendor in our roundup now appears to have the VIA PCI/AGP lock working. If you have a VIA board with PCI/AGP lock issues, our advice is to contact your motherboard vendor for the latest BIOS or possibly a revised version of your motherboard. The good news is that VIA has worked with manufacturers to fix the issues, and the issues can be solved; the bad news is that there are still many VIA K8T800 PRO motherboards in the market with PCI/AGP lock issues, and some require a motherboard replacement to fix the problem. In some cases, we are looking at a third motherboard revision before we finally receive a working PCI/AGP lock on a VIA K8T800 PRO board.

... think i might have found the problem don't you think ?
/me is gonna buy a new mobo with nvidia chipset , been testing / trying for too long , haven't slept for nights and tbh a bit tired of it after a gazillion of times of reinstalling xp , formats etc ...

will let you know if the mobo was the prob btw .
Grtz


-------------------------
Athlon 64 3.5+ 939
MSI K8N NEO 2 Platinum edition
Asus v9999GE
2*512 XMS XLL Corsair dual chan
Antec True Blue 480W PSU
Audigy 2 zs
WinXP - SP2
 10/22/2004 12:35 PM
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HotShoT
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Well,...

(Sorry SouthernComfort... I was browsing too fast over all the posts. Must have read the wrong name for the quote!


Just to get back once more to the AMD64/SP2 boot problem.

I now know and understand what DEP does, thanks for clearification. But still, I can't find the actual program causing it.
Added my FW to the DEP-list, cause someone suggested that it might cause a fight with Windows FW. (But didn't think so... Never had problems on the XP systems).
I'm thinking about Norton SystemWorks 2004, but haven't had problems with that either in the past!

I'm now running in Safe-Mode, with networking... getting shared-internet through my server...
Here some details of my Blue-Screen:

DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

bla-bla-bal...

FILTNT.SYS Address B8E7118 Base at B8E68000, Date stamp: 4076A21A


Any clue what to make out of this?

To be honest... I'm getting sick of it! I actually long for SP2 to be on my system, but can't find out what's wrong with it!
It's not a big deal to uninstall, because I've got a Backup with Norton Ghost and got the system right back before Upgrade to SP2 in 4minutes.
But still... It's a pain in the A%&* not to know what's causing this!
My friend is sitting next to me with his Fujitsu-Siemens AMD64, not having any problems!
But he's running a standard Windows XP Home edition, upgraded to SP2. Could there be a difference in Home and Pro?

Please anybody with a good work around?! HELP!!!!!!


Thanks.

-------------------------
----------------------------------------------------
===> Long live AMD-POWER!!! <===
----------------------------------------------------
AMD64 Athlon 3400+
ASUS K8V SE Deluxe
1.5GB Ram
1x 160GB SATA
1x 160GB IDE, 1x 120GB IDE, 1x 80GB IDE
LiteOn DVD-RW, LiteOn CD-RW
----------------------------------------------------
(The rest doesn't really matter now, does it?!)
----------------------------------------------------
 10/22/2004 01:06 PM
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HotShoT
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Well guys...


It was a good thing that I wrote down the Blue-screen message for this forum...

Solved my own problem!

Searched for this FILTNT.SYS file...
Guess what?! ... Found it in my FW's folder. It was my FW afterall!
Adding my FW to the DEP didn't do a thing! But un-installing it was the clue!

AMD 64 w/SP2 running now! Removed all other applications from DEP-List... NO PROBs!!!


Thanks for all suggestions anyways, especially SouthernComfort! At least I now really know what the DEP does!!! (Did a little reading now) Lot's of info on Microsoft Knowledgebase!


See ya soon... Till then... AMD-Power Forever!!!

-------------------------
----------------------------------------------------
===> Long live AMD-POWER!!! <===
----------------------------------------------------
AMD64 Athlon 3400+
ASUS K8V SE Deluxe
1.5GB Ram
1x 160GB SATA
1x 160GB IDE, 1x 120GB IDE, 1x 80GB IDE
LiteOn DVD-RW, LiteOn CD-RW
----------------------------------------------------
(The rest doesn't really matter now, does it?!)
----------------------------------------------------
 10/23/2004 11:20 AM
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HotShoT
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Another fun thing!

Installed ZoneAlarm... No problems... But I wasn't satisfied with it! Tried to un-install it...

GUESS WHAT!

Same thing... FILTNT.SYS caused a bluescreen and reboot!

System starts up again... but cannot un-install ZA. Had to boot in Safe-Mode again to un-install.

Will be trying another FW shortly!


Regards!

-------------------------
----------------------------------------------------
===> Long live AMD-POWER!!! <===
----------------------------------------------------
AMD64 Athlon 3400+
ASUS K8V SE Deluxe
1.5GB Ram
1x 160GB SATA
1x 160GB IDE, 1x 120GB IDE, 1x 80GB IDE
LiteOn DVD-RW, LiteOn CD-RW
----------------------------------------------------
(The rest doesn't really matter now, does it?!)
----------------------------------------------------
 10/24/2004 03:24 PM
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OmegaM41
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I also have a problem with SP2, although I'm not sure if it relates to DEP...
By the way, I have a VIA K8T800 based motherboard. Anyways, after installing SP2, I finish the install by restarting the pc. Usually, when the computer is starting up, the windows screen fades in half way, pauses for a second, then fades in all of the way and continues to load. With service pack 2, it fades in half way, pauses, then the computer restarts. I can only start the computer in safe mode or safe mode with networking, the "last known good configuration" setting doesn't work as well. I didn't have anything but my dsl software installed when I installed this, no antivirus or software firewall was installed. Oh, and Alcohol 120% was causing there to be a problem with backing up the atapi file, but I uninstalled it and SP2 still doesn't work. I even talked to microsoft support about this, and they couldn't figure it out. Any ideas?

-------------------------
Athlon 64 3200+ s754 (Newcastle) w/stock HSF and Arctic Silver 5
Gigabyte GA-K8NS (nForce3 250), BIOS F18
1 GB PC3200 ram @ DDR400, 80 GB Seagate Barracuda SATA HD
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro (Powercolor)
400W FSP power supply, NEC ND-3540A DVD burner
 10/24/2004 04:47 PM
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Patrick
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i'd say turn of the xp sp2 firewall , then try again ,
if it still doesnt work , try disabling dep ( boot.ini , change noexecute line to execute ) have a go again .
lots of programs still could have problems with firewall and /or dep.
there's an awesome list of program incompatibilities and "possible " conflict programs somewhere on microsoft knowledge base.




-------------------------
Athlon 64 3.5+ 939
MSI K8N NEO 2 Platinum edition
Asus v9999GE
2*512 XMS XLL Corsair dual chan
Antec True Blue 480W PSU
Audigy 2 zs
WinXP - SP2
 10/24/2004 06:49 PM
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OmegaM41
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Patrick, that was it! Once I turned off DEP, it started up perfectly! This taught me something about Microsoft tech support, they couldn't figure out the problem! Thanks so much!

-------------------------
Athlon 64 3200+ s754 (Newcastle) w/stock HSF and Arctic Silver 5
Gigabyte GA-K8NS (nForce3 250), BIOS F18
1 GB PC3200 ram @ DDR400, 80 GB Seagate Barracuda SATA HD
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro (Powercolor)
400W FSP power supply, NEC ND-3540A DVD burner
 10/25/2004 09:31 AM
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Patrick
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you're welcome ! glad to see i could help instead of someone helping me for a change

update on my own probs :
the mobo was definitly the problem ( check anadtech's article in previous posts )
just installed a nvidia based chipset mobo and had no problems whatsoever with installing software from creative audigy 2 zs
no more irq conflicts , no more blue screens ( yet , and hope it stays like this hehe )

so all you ppl with revision 1 motherboards with via k8t800 chipset ( with unlocked agp /pci ) I strongly advise you to change motherboards !!

as for me ... i've got a mobo to sell ...
asus a8v deluxe ... if interested lemme know

Greetz.


-------------------------
Athlon 64 3.5+ 939
MSI K8N NEO 2 Platinum edition
Asus v9999GE
2*512 XMS XLL Corsair dual chan
Antec True Blue 480W PSU
Audigy 2 zs
WinXP - SP2
 10/25/2004 06:58 PM
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OmegaM41
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hmmm... I've just been using my integrated ac'97 sound, sounds just the same as on my old pc with a SB AudioPCI 128. I just have 2 speakers that are pretty good, about 35 watts, no subwoofer. Is this problem with just audigy 2's or audigy's as well? If I ever get a better sound system, I might want a better sound card. Once in a while, I get a hiss sound out of my speakers that seems to correspond to my hd activity... strange...

-------------------------
Athlon 64 3200+ s754 (Newcastle) w/stock HSF and Arctic Silver 5
Gigabyte GA-K8NS (nForce3 250), BIOS F18
1 GB PC3200 ram @ DDR400, 80 GB Seagate Barracuda SATA HD
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro (Powercolor)
400W FSP power supply, NEC ND-3540A DVD burner
 10/26/2004 02:51 AM
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Patrick
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With the onboard realtek you can get 5.1 sound easily with fair quality.
It wont be as good as the audigy but if you don't need asio 2 or eax support just use the onboard realtek ac97 and get a 5.1 speaker system. , really makes a lot of diff watching a dvd in 5.1 compared to 2.0 speakers !
btw .. of topic now , this was a sp2 -amd 64 related prob thread

For the hiss .. check newest drivers for the realtek . If that doesn't work , check if there's no loose wires in touch with the case anywhere ( could give a humm , but this is very unlikely the prob in your case imho )
third option could be your hd is very close to the codec and gives interference when it spins up , but also not very likely.

hope it helps.
Grtz

-------------------------
Athlon 64 3.5+ 939
MSI K8N NEO 2 Platinum edition
Asus v9999GE
2*512 XMS XLL Corsair dual chan
Antec True Blue 480W PSU
Audigy 2 zs
WinXP - SP2
 10/26/2004 10:28 PM
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OmegaM41
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Yeah, with my sb, I used to be able to use eax, but the option is grayed out with the integrated audio, instead games use miles fast 2d audio. With the hiss, it seems to do it only once or twice when I first start up my computer, then it goes away. It hasn't happened lately, though, maybe it was happening when my motherboard was brand new. Also, my speakers seem to be very sensitive, the speakers make a hum if I touch the end of the jack, and they make a thump noise if the jack hits against anything else.

Anyways...back on topic ... any reasons why I have to disable DEP to start windows with SP2? Is there a specific program which is causing this problem?

-------------------------
Athlon 64 3200+ s754 (Newcastle) w/stock HSF and Arctic Silver 5
Gigabyte GA-K8NS (nForce3 250), BIOS F18
1 GB PC3200 ram @ DDR400, 80 GB Seagate Barracuda SATA HD
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro (Powercolor)
400W FSP power supply, NEC ND-3540A DVD burner
 10/27/2004 05:55 AM
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Patrick
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normally you should be able to find the program that conflicts with dep .
i suggest :
turn dep back on , boot in safe mode ( you should be able to boot now ) ,
go to dep settings system properties- advanced - performance - settings - data execution prevention
now check the lowest button trun on exept for programs...or smth
and add all the programs or startup processes you think could be the guilty
close up and restart your system . after that keep deleting files from it till you can't boot again , then you'll know what caused it and put the last removed file back into it and remove the others.
just a matter of testing/trying . I can say that usually it's older progs causing it.

you can maybe start by checking miscrosoft's sites for : application compatibility analyzer and the application Compatibility Administrator
it's a in fact a big database wich has a lot of compatibility fixes for known applications and i beleive there's even a application verifier in it.

btw here's a link : Downloads Application Comaptibility analyser' ">http://search.microsoft.com/se...zer&swc=1&na=33&cm=512


Good Luck !

-------------------------
Athlon 64 3.5+ 939
MSI K8N NEO 2 Platinum edition
Asus v9999GE
2*512 XMS XLL Corsair dual chan
Antec True Blue 480W PSU
Audigy 2 zs
WinXP - SP2
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