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Topic Title: AMD 3000A Pro
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Created On: 05/19/2004 02:13 PM
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 05/19/2004 02:13 PM
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wildbill
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I purchased a computer that was stated to be an AMD 3000 Pro System. I suspect otherwise. The BIOS shows "3000A Pro" on initial boot and under the CPU Setup in the BIOS the CPU PnP Type shows "Pro 3000A+". The CPU fan has a stick on label on the hub that says "3000A+Pro".

WCPUID reports the following:
Processor: Mobile AMD Athlon XP-M (Model 8)
Platform: Socket A (Socket 462)
Vendor String: AuthenicAMD
Family 6, Model 8, Stepping ID 0 - (Standard)
Family 7, Model 8, Stepping ID 0 - (Extended)
Name String: mobile AMD Athlon ™ XP-M 1700+

Internal Clock 1466.72 Mhz System Clock 133.34 Mhz
System Bus 266.88 Mhz DDR Multiplier 11.0

L1 I-Cache 64K L2 Cache 256K
L1 D-Cache 64K L2 Speed Full, 1466.72 Mhz

Chip Set
1106:3116:00
1106:3177.00

So, my question is what do I have. Incidently the AMD utility reports the same speed as WCUPID and indicates the chip is a "mobile AMD Athlon XP-M 17" (I assume the "17" indicates 1700+. Can the BIOS be faked to show the CPU as a XP 3000A + (what ever that is?) and I assume WCUPID tells the real story. If I'm right in that assumption then the vendor went to some lengths to create the fraud. I'll appreciate your commets. Is there any way this CPU, running at 1466 Mhz base speed, can be said to approach 3000 Mhz?

Bill
 05/19/2004 03:41 PM
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koolaidwa
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looks like u got a 1700+ moblie chip, shoot the person who sold it to u, the pro thing is the worst i have seen ever, just plain evil, tricking u into thinking u getting a good deal and ur not

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 05/19/2004 03:58 PM
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wildbill
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Thanks koolaidwa,
That's what I thought also. Just in case there was something I wasn't taking into consideration, I was looking for a second (and other's also) opinion. After not being able to contact the company for two days and no response to my emails, the office lady called within an hour after the person at my credit union faxed a strongly worded FAX indicating if there was no response the credit card charge would be disputed. Now I'm waiting for "Joe" to call to explain how this "mistake" could happen. She made many promises to correct the "problem". Why is there the distinct aroma of dead fish here?
 05/20/2004 03:16 AM
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-Milt-
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Hi Bill, and Welcome to the AMD Forum!

You've got a rather unusual processor there, but it's certainly not a 3000+, it's not even remotely close.
From the WCPUID readout of "Family 6, Model 8, Stepping ID 0 - (Standard)" that tells me that youu have an AMD XP Thoroughbred 'A' CPU in there. (T-bred 'A' for short).
And, the "Internal Clock 1466.72 Mhz System Clock 133.34 Mhz" combined with the "DDR Multiplier 11.0" tells me that it's actually running at 11.0x133MHz = 1467MHz or the exact same speed as any of the AMD XP 1700+ CPUs
Here's the ones I knew about previously...
XP 1700+ T-bred B (L2 256KB) 11.0x133MHz = 1467MHz, WCPUID = 6-8-1
XP 1700+ T-bred A (L2 256KB) 11.0x133MHz = 1467MHz, WCPUID = 6-8-0
XP 1700+ Palomino (L2 256KB) 11.0x133MHz = 1467MHz, WCPUID = 6-6-2
So now I have a 'new' one to add to my 'list' of recent AMD offerings.... your Mobile
XPM1700+ T-bred A (L2 256KB) 11.0x133MHz = 1467MHz, WCPUID = 6-8-0

Look at it on the bright side... at least you got a 'Mobile', and can vary the multiplier, within Windows, by using a little program called CrystalCPUID 3.5.5.173 from http://crystalmark.info/?lang=en' ">http://crystalmark.info/?lang=en
Unfortunately, with ANY Mobile, you can only go DOWN, not UP on the multiplier from the 'stock' boot multi.

You don't say what motherboard this is on but I suspect it is made by either ECS, PCChips, or Syntax.
If it's PCChips it is one of the M810(D,C, or L), an M812, or an M825... but please, you tell me what you've got, rather than me playing a guessing game, Okay?

-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 05/20/2004 08:32 AM
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Silk_the_Absent1
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First of all, there is no such thing as an Athlon XP PRO. They are generally low end Durons or low end mobile XP's that are directly soldered to the motherboard, making them non-upgradeable. It's a scam done by Pcchips, and has been reported to AMD. Avoid anything that says AMD Pro, or Athlon XP Pro like the plague.

Secondly, the performance ratings on AMD chips don't mean the actual speed. A real Athlon XP 3000+ performs at 2.1 or 2.167 Ghz (based on FSB, there are 2 models), however the XP line performs more instructions per clock cycle then Intel chips. AMD chips do 9, while Intel chips do 6. There are other bits of clever architecture that make AMD chips perform as well as, if not better then, Intel chips clocked much higher then the AMD ones. Basically AMD chips do more with less.

-Adam
 05/20/2004 06:48 PM
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wildbill
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First, in reply to Milt ... Yes it is a PC Chips 825 w/v7.2 BIOS and it looks like the AMD athlon XP-M 1700 is soldered to the mobo. At the price of these boards that's not much of an issue (the technology moves faster than the component life, I have a basement full of perfectly good computers dating from 1976 onward). Anyway, just for fun (or perhaps to relieve frustration) I have sent a message to PC Chips asking for the basis of how they determine that the AMD XP-17 (base speed 1466 Mhz) can approach 3000+. I do note they never say Mhz (just 3000A+ with Pro before or behind). IOW just plain fraud, but perhaps protected by their not using Mhz in association with the 3000. I strongly suspect I will not receive an answer from them. I also emailed AMD asking why they would allow their name to be used in the way PC Chips is using it (clearly an attempt to defraud). I probably will not get an answer to that one either.

Re the variable multiplier on the mobile chip ... it looks like they have tried to incorporate that into an "Auto" selection in the BIOS setup (V7,2C). I don't know if it works or not.

The vendor I purchased it from is taking the position that they were just advertising what PC Chips said on the mobo/CPU fan (so they certainly were not at fault) He is asking for a restocking fee which is probably the way I will go given that I really don't need the thing.

Adam, I didn't realize the AMD's (Intel equivalent performance) was as large as 3000-2100=900Mhz that's 43% over their base rating. I would agree, AMD does more with less. I haven't had an Intel CPU in 8 years.

Thanks for your response. Somebody needs to stop this deceptive practice. I see on the PC Chips UK website there is a statement: "We are pending the shipment of M825ULR and M929ULR for Marketing issue." I first thought it might be AMD on their case but since the P4 board is also included ... who knows?

Bill
 05/21/2004 12:07 AM
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-Milt-
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Bill,

I really think that it is time for some enterprising, intelligent, resident, of either the UK, (where there are some very stringent consumer protection laws, if I understand correctly), or the United States, (where some lady sued MacDonald's Restaurants, after spilling her own coffee into her lap and sued MacDonalds alleging that it was all their fault for serving the coffee too hot, AND she WON a very large cash settlement), to sue PCChips, ECS, Syntax, Kobian and AMD for blatantly false advertising.
The time has come for a class-action suit by a group of individuals who feel righteously ripped off, and have access to a lawyer willing to take the case on a contingency basis... (i.e. meaning "If I win millions for you, I get a big cut of the winnings... but if not, there's no charge")


For example, today I just noticed a very large prominent sign in the window of my local, friendly, neighbourhood, 'Mom & Pop Comp Shop' advertising a 'Complete New Computer for $285' CAD (= ~$210US or £117), so I went in to ask them exactly what they were selling.
The first thing I noticed was that the price jumped from $285 to $295, as soon as I walked in the door (and asked about 'the Special'.
I was then informed that it was an "AMD Duron 2000+", so I played the kinda semi-informed consumer and said something to the effect of "But I thought that the fastest Duron is only 2000 MHz?" and was told that 'yes, but this is a very special system', or something to that effect.

So I then queried them further about what this 'special system' consisted of, exactly, and after much B.S. found out that it was based on a 'Syntax K7S740MP' and had a Duron 1300 in it (or maybe an overclocked 1200)... he wasn't too sure, but he was still smiling as he lied through his teeth.
I am sincerely convinced that anyone shopping for a computer that walked into that store would go home thinking that they had just purchased a Duron 2000+, and that most consumers would never be the wiser.

This bullcrap HAS to stop, it is giving my favourite microprocessor manufacurer a bad taste (although it is NOT their fault), so if there is anything AT ALL that I can do to contribute, please let me know.

EDIT: Bill could you please give me the link for that UK PCChips website? I have the xxx.tw and xxx.USA ones, but not the UK one.
http://www.pcchips.com.tw/pccweb/index.aspx' ">http://www.pcchips.com.tw/pccweb/index.aspx
http://www.pcchipsusa.com/' ">http://www.pcchipsusa.com/

-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 05/21/2004 12:44 AM
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wildbill
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Milt, I agree. The problem is how to identify the members of the "Class". I suspect you are correct, it wouldn't be hard to win the case. PC Chip's pockets are probably not very deep and since I believe they are mostly off shore to the US collecting would be even more difficult. Never-the-less it is fraud, just like selling a knock off Rolex watch. In most of these cases the "Brand Name" goes after them because they are losing business and their brand name is being damaged. In this case AMD probably sold them the chips at a deep discount and has little leverage beyond suing a customer. So I suspect there is some nodding and winking going on here between AMD and PC Chips.

Bill
 05/21/2004 11:27 AM
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wildbill
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Well I need to check my email more throughly. My bad. AMD did indeed respond to my query to them about this bogus use of their good name. Here was their response.

"We have recently been made aware of an issue with this motherboard/processor bundle and we are looking into this issue. Please understand that while the motherboard manufacturer may be using an AMD processor in their board design, AMD was not involved in the development of this bundle and we do not have any information on this product. Also please note that our current processor lines are the AMD Athlon, AMD Duron and AMD Opteron products. Products by any other name may be part of this bundle design and therefore are determined by the board developer. For questions on your motherboard bundle, please contact your reseller/retailer or the board manufacturer."

I'm not sure what to read into this. I hope AMD "looking into the issue" will result in some action against PC Chips, ASRock, ECS and any others who are part of this fraud.

I will respond encouraging AMD to take action.

Bill
 05/21/2004 03:26 PM
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-Milt-
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Bill,

I'm glad to hear that AMD is "looking into the issue" so please encourage them to take it farther, and/or mention some of the other board manufacturers that have started following PCChips lead.
I wasn't aware that AsRock was also doing this... do you have a model number for their 'guilty' board?
The ones that I do know about for sure include PCChips, ECS, Mercury, Syntax, (and somebody else mentioned Kobian?)

Because I have been a moderator on the PCChips help forum for several years, I have lots of names, and more than a few e-mail addys of the disgruntled owners of the M810L v7.1C ... See...
http://www.stud.fernuni-hagen....142-...ums.cgi?forum=5' ">http://www.stud.fernuni-hagen....brd/forums.cgi?forum=5
Oddly enough, some people are not the least bit perturbed when they find out they've been ripped off.
Have a quick peek at this thread for instance... it's very recent and the board isn't even running yet, but the owner doesn't even seem to care!
http://forums.amd.com/index.php?showtopic=15004' ">http://forums.amd.com/index.php?showtopic=15004

Here is what I currently know about the 'processor naming conventions' that ONLY ECS, PCChips, Syntax and Mercury uses, and ONLY for these 'Pro' BIOSs
Duron 750 ----> Pro1000+
Duron 800 ----> Pro1100+
Duron 850 ----> Pro1200+
Duron 900 ----> Pro1300+
Duron 950 ----> Pro1400+
Duron 1000 ---> Pro1500+
Duron 1100 ---> Pro1600+ (Duron 1200 also reported)
Duron 1200 ---> Pro1800+
Duron 1300 ---> Pro2000+
Palomino 950 -> Pro2000+ (flo)
Unknown ------> Pro2200+ (JJ on AMD)
Duron 1400 ---> Pro2300+
Duron 1600 ---> Pro2500+
Tbred 1.2M ---> Pro2600+ (Kelly's M825LU)
Pally 1500+ ---> Pro2700+
Duron 1800 ---> Pro2800+
Pally 1800+ ---> Pro2900+
XP-M 1700+ --> Pro 3000A+ (on Bill's M825)
Unknn 2000 ---> Pro3100+ (on M825LU)
The same SHOULD be true for any Athlon Thunderbird of the 100/200 FSB persuasion. (i.e. an Athlon T-bird 950 = Pro1400+)
BUT IT'S NOT! 'flo's' XP Palomino 950 'Mobile' is recognized as a Pro2000+

If you still have the board in your possession, try flashing the BIOS with the version for the 'standard' socketed version of the M825LU (V7.2a) from...
http://www.pcchipsusa.com/download-mainframe.asp' ">http://www.pcchipsusa.com/download-mainframe.asp
In my experiments with the similar M810L mobos, the BIOS for the v7.1C (with the Duron soldered on) can be interchanged with the one for the v7.1a (the socketed version), and vice versa.
The boards are identical, except for the socket or the CPU thing... When I peeled the "7.1A" sticker of of my M810L I found "7.1C' silk-screened on the board underneath!
So if you use a 'stock' v7.2A BIOS, then it will reveal the actual truth about your CPU on the boot screens... what a novel concept!

One more thing...PCChips have extremely deep pockets... they are either the largest (or the second largest behind Asus) manufacturers of motherboards on this planet.
They are based in China, I believe.

-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 05/21/2004 03:43 PM
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Runner30
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AMD has been "looking into" this issue for about half a year or so.
There's probably nothing they can do about it, like Intell can't do nothing aobut the "3200+" type marking of AMD cpus (which don't really compare to intels 3.2Ghz).

I think PCChips will win any court case telling "any customer has to be aware of what he's buying and we DID mark our product with a "A" or "pro" to show that the marking does not show the processor speed" or something like that.



-------------------------
quote:A.M.D = All Men Desire.

System:HEC 475Watt.AMD Athlon XP-M2500 IQYHA0351MPMW.
Abit NF7v2*Sp97*NB1+delta*A-DATA DDR500
MSI 'the rock' RX9800*WD800JB
*257x10@1.83V*261x10@1.9V (CPC off)
 05/22/2004 06:05 PM
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-Milt-
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wildbill recently sent me an e-mail and has also posted a scan of the 'Sales flyer' that attracted him to this package deal in the first place.

Knowing as we do now, that what he actually received was a Mobile Athlon XP 1700+ Thoroughbred A processor, running at 11.0x133MHz = 1467MHz, I think you can judge for yourself whether this would be construed in a courtroom as 'blatantly false and misleading advertising'
But it remains to be seen what a Judge will say about it.



-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 05/26/2004 03:33 AM
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exsimsman
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Sorry to say it's buyer beware. I saw a 2200 Pro advertised on Tiger Direct & when you read the specs sheet it clearly stated it was an overclocked system.The first rule of purchasing my father taught me was if a deal looks to good to be true it probably is.
Just built my first AMD system 2600+ from scratch & this forum has been a great help, even though some of the horror stories people have posted had me worried before the components arrived. So far everything seems to be running fine.

Rob

 05/26/2004 01:06 PM
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Silk_the_Absent1
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Here it is:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/app...s/Se...27&Sku=K13-2204' ">http://www.tigerdirect.com/app...No=709627&Sku=K13-2204

Man, I thought Tiger Direct had more class then that...

-Adam
 05/26/2004 06:12 PM
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-Milt-
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Adam,
Thanks for the link.
At least Tiger Direct has the decency to say in the 'Specifications' that it's an " OverClocked 850MHz Operating @ 2200 PRO Speed"

It is getting a little ridiculous though, when an 850 Duron is advertised as a "Integrated AMD Duron 2200 Pro Processor" regardless of whether it's overclocked or not... and I don't even think that it is!

Stay away from this particular combination... the Mercury 740CFDMx... not only are you stuck with the on-board Duron 850, but the SiS740 chipset does NOT support an AGP slot.
And I'm told that even a lowly GeForce2 PCI vid card will not work on this chipset.
So you're stuck with the on-board vid as well.
At least with Bill's PC Chips M825LU, he has an AGP slot and the VIA chipset will allow a video upgrade.

-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 06/17/2004 11:48 PM
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Ginny
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Hello everyone,

Well I am glad I am not the only "idiot" that bought this scam. I just boughta PCCHIPS K7 Motherboard M825LU V7.2C Pro3100A+ ChipSet KM 266/8235MATX Now how I eneded up being on here is because I have all these [content edited] questions because when I went under properties in "My Computer" It says I have a "AMD Athlon XP 2000+ @ 1.67GHz. But at initial boot it reads Pro 3100A+.
So from what I have read in this forum, are guys telling me I have a Laptop Prcessor solder on to my motherboard or is that not what "mobile" means? If anyone could get back to me with info,downloads,or updates,anything that could make this cpu a tad faster. Like does it have jumpers on the mobo. Before I forget to tell you, I am not a Computer programmer or tech. Never touch the stuff, I am just a jack of all trades, master of none. What I know so far is from reading ALOT of "info" and "what is" sites. I biult this computer over the weekend and I have never done one before and now I am using it. Now the board does max out at 2gb of ram. It has 2 ddr, 184pin slots. I already filled one with a 512 so probably the only thing I could do is just add another 512mb of ram to make it a tad faster right?



 06/17/2004 11:58 PM
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Ginny
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Hello again,

Disregaurd that "mobile" issue in my last reply. Don't where I got that form.
I thought one ou guy's said found out that the processors on those boards were mobile processors, I must have reading that from somwhere else.


GINNY
 06/18/2004 01:02 AM
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SDA
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Well, some of 'em are mobile Athlon XPs, but there could be desktop ones in these boards as well. What's in them really changes too often to tell for sure.

-------------------------
DEC Pentium X2 5200+ w/ HyperCache (Ezra core)
Asus M7NCD-MAX3 (OPTi Vendetta 82C760)
6x Generic 32MB PC2700 RDRAM (50ns SIMMs)
2x nVidia Millennium X1800 Duo (SLI mode)
12x (daisy-chained) Quantum Medalist 180GXP (w/ separate SCSI-1 adapter)

"Oh, you started a Rube Goldberg machine. A Rube Goldberg machine... called JUSTICE." <a href='http://www.boomspeed.com/old_camper/amdforumsircchat.ht
 07/19/2004 02:19 PM
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tranng
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Hi all,

Glad to take a search before I buy this combo. It's very bad trick.

Thank you
 07/19/2004 03:07 PM
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-Milt-
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Ginny,

There were at least four versions of the AMD Athlon XP 2000+ processor, not counting all the 'Mobile' versions.
XP 2000+ . Thorton (L2 256KB) 12.5x133MHz = 1667MHz, WCPUID = 6-10-0
XP 2000+ T-bred B (L2 256KB) 12.5x133MHz = 1667MHz, WCPUID = 6-8-1
XP 2000+ T-bred A (L2 256KB) 12.5x133MHz = 1667MHz, WCPUID = 6-8-0
XP 2000+ Palomino (L2 256KB) 12.5x133MHz = 1667MHz, WCPUID = 6-6-2

Run WCPUID to get all the pertinant details about what CPU you actually have in there, and what speed it's currently running at...
Make a note of the L2 cache, the multiplier, and the Family - Model - Stepping...
From that info, we can figure out exactly what it is you have, and what it should be running at.
WCPUID is available for free here http://www.h-oda.com/' ">http://www.h-oda.com/

All of the 'C' version mobos, from several different manufacturers, all have various, old, obsolete Durons, Palominos, or T-bred 'A's soldered directly to the mobo.

And they all use a very special "Pro BIOS", which lies to you on the first POST screen...
Here is what we currently know about the 'processor naming conventions' that ONLY ECS, Mercury, Kobian, and PCChips uses, and ONLY for these 'Pro' BIOSs
Duron 750 ----> Pro1000+
Duron 800 ----> Pro1100+
Duron 850 ----> Pro1200+
Duron 900 ----> Pro1300+
Duron 950 ----> Pro1400+
Duron 1000 ---> Pro1500+
Duron 1100 ---> Pro1600+ (Duron 1200 also reported)
Duron 1200 ---> Pro1800+
Duron 1300 ---> Pro2000+
Palomino 950 -> Pro2000+ (flo)
Duron 1400 ---> Pro2300+
Duron 1600 ---> Pro2500+
Tbred 1.2M ---> Pro2600+ (Kelly's PCChips M825LU)
Pally 1500+ ---> Pro2700+
Duron 1800 ---> Pro2800+
Pally 1800+ ---> Pro2900+
Unknn 2000 ---> Pro3100+A (on Ginny's PCChips M825LU)
Duron 1800 ---> Pro3600+ (on MERCURY Model KOB KM266FDMx-L )

The same SHOULD be true for any Athlon Thunderbird of the 100/200 FSB persuasion. (i.e. an Athlon T-bird 950 = Pro1400+)
BUT IT'S NOT! 'flo's' XP Palomino 950 'Mobile' is recognized as a "Pro2000+"



-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
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