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Topic Title: Which is better ? AthXP2100+ or Semp2400+
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Created On: 11/26/2005 08:57 PM
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 11/30/2005 07:00 AM
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LongJohn
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Wait a second boule... /tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' />

I do show up, and listen to the stuff you guys write, but I really have nothing to say to this, because I am kind of clueless now.

I now my sempron has a 256kb L2 cache, because the AMD website told me that when I entered the OPN code, but thats about all I can contribute right now ( And I doubt it will help).

But all those lists are quite interesting even for a n00b like me because now I am thinking of buying one of these FSB400 512kb cache athlon monsters for my socket a....

So keep going, and thanks for the support /smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />
 11/30/2005 11:16 AM
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boule
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QUOTE(LongJohn @ Nov 30 2005, 01:00 PM)Wait a second boule... /tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' />

I do show up, and listen to the stuff you guys write, but I really have nothing to say to this, because I am kind of clueless now.

I now my sempron has a 256kb L2 cache, because the AMD website told me that when I entered the OPN code, but thats about all I can contribute right now ( And I doubt it will help).

But all those lists are quite interesting even for a n00b like me because now I am thinking of buying one of these FSB400 512kb cache athlon monsters for my socket a....

So keep going, and thanks for the support  /smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />


By show up, I meant post, I had no clue if u were still visiting to read... Sorry for not being more specific /blush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blush.gif' />

If you still have any questions, please ask them it's our great pleasure to help anyway we can (doing too much ? /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /> )

If I can allow myelf a small suggestion here, I don't think it's worth it to buy a socket A CPU...
If you don't have DDR400 (or PC3200) it won't do you any good because your system will run at the speed of your ram. With the ram you mentionned in your 1st post, that's 166, so your cpu will run at 166 (fsb 333)

Now with a fsb 400 board and DDR400, your sempron 2400 could reach 200 (though that's not for sure... I did it with my sempron 2500). The performance of your system will then come close to the "monster" you wanted to buy, though a bit slower and with less cache. But you well then have a good respectable system that will allow you to hold on until the next major upgrade to a system 939 or future socket M2 system...

-------------------------
Desktop:
AMD Athlon XP 2800+ (Barton) @ 200x10.5=2100MHz | Asus A7N8X Deluxe | Corsair 2xCMX512-3200C2PT @ 2.5-3-3-8 | MSI GeForce FX 5600 128MB | Hitachi Deskstar T7K250 160GB SATA II | Antec NeoPower 480W | Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Fatal1ty

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Dell Latitude 120L | Intel Pentium M 740 | OCZ 2x1GB PC2-5400 | Western Digital Scorpio WD1200VE 120GB
 11/30/2005 11:18 AM
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cowen1000
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If you want to upgrade your cpu then I suggest that you get the Athlon XP3200+ (try and get a PIB (processor in a box) and not OEM) they are rare but there are some still floating about. The reason I say that is because a lot of the OEM's are fake! and if you read other threads on this forum you will see the trouble people are having with the 'fakes'!
This place' ">http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/...1-R&affiliate=shopping still has stock of them /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

EDIT:Sorry they have ran out now but if you google for them, you will find them!

Try Here' ">http://www.blinkpc.com/index.p...5edee9411d910e3d3bfcf2

-------------------------
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 11/30/2005 03:19 PM
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LongJohn
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WOW, you guys really ARE helping, not the usual "read the FAQ's" or "why dont you google for it" comments that are really frustrating for people like me /rolleyes.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='rolleyes.gif' />
I am very thankful for that !

The thing about my upgrading is, that this nice tool "cpu-z" that bogey recomended showed me that my RAM was only capable of 142MHZ...odd number huh?
(Changing the FSB in my BIOS i got both CPU and RAM up to 138MHz, but that was it)
So I decided to get new RAM with my new board as well. I found DDR400 RAM (2x512MB) for 89EUROS, and thought that would be a a good deal.

So my new system would be based on the Asus A7V880 board(finally USB2.0 /blush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blush.gif' /> and GB Lan etc), with the Sempron2400+ (at first) and 1GB DDR400 RAM (slowed down to 333DDR).

And all that for just 143Euros, since I take the rest out of my old system.

Than I found the AthlonXP 3000+ with the huge L2 cache and FSB400 for just 105Euros (although I am now not sure it isnt a fake since the price on the link cowen1000 gave me showed 200+ $ for the 3200+

But I would only buy the new CPU if I have money, so maybe in a month or two.
But I guess those get rare pretty fast huh ?

You are probably right suggesting not to buy a socket a CPU anymore, but when I looked at prices for socket 939 (and I dont want 754), they were still pretty high (120EUR for the board, 130 and up for a CPU). And I am a poor shmuck /unsure.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='unsure.gif' />

So I thought I would by what I said above, since I can still buy the most powerful socket A cpu in a few months..
And when this system really gets too slow for everything, I'll just give to my mom, or use it as a music streaming server or whatever, and get a new 939 board and a (maybe a dualcore) athlon64. Or no, I just googled for the m2, I guess I will buy one of those then.

What really pisses me of is that I've never seen Desktop/Workstation Mainboards for more than one CPU, wouldnt that be nice to have one of those m2 boards with 2 dualcore cpus ?? Or am I just stupid ?

Cant wait for your comments on how to make it better, and please correct me if i wrote something wrong /smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />
 12/01/2005 04:55 AM
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boule
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You want 2 dual core cpus ?? And I want to rule the world ! The difference is that me, I'm gonna... someday /ph34r.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ph34r.gif' />

I think my pcs will hold on like a year... or 2, let's get crazy !! I think 5 years is a good period without changing. I'll upgrade directly to M2 or whatever is out by then, I'll skip the whole 754/939 period...

If you really want to upgrade right now, and 939 is too expensive, at least go 754. There shouldn't be a big difference between board+cpu 754 and board+cpu socket A, and you'll have a 64 system. The ram stays the same.



-------------------------
Desktop:
AMD Athlon XP 2800+ (Barton) @ 200x10.5=2100MHz | Asus A7N8X Deluxe | Corsair 2xCMX512-3200C2PT @ 2.5-3-3-8 | MSI GeForce FX 5600 128MB | Hitachi Deskstar T7K250 160GB SATA II | Antec NeoPower 480W | Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Fatal1ty

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 12/01/2005 06:35 AM
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cowen1000
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I agree with Boule, if you are seriously thinking of upgrading your cpu & mobo you should go to a socket 754 (at least)
You can buy a skt 754 mobo for the same price as a skt A and you could buy a Sempron 64 3000+ for less then an Athlon XP 3000+.
If you do that you would have a 64 bit machine /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

I have recently upgraded from an Athlon XP2800 (o/c'ed 2450Mhz) to a Sempron 64 2800+ (o/c'ed 2400 from it's 'stock' 1600 which gives me a P Rating of 4000+) /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /> So basically you could do the same. All you need is a good mobo (I recommend a DFI Lanparty UT nF3 250GB) and a Sempron 64 /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />
You could build that setup cheaper than a Skt A and get better performance!

-------------------------
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 12/01/2005 06:45 AM
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boule
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Yeah I agree with Boule too /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

QUOTEAthlon XP2800 (o/c'ed 2450Mhz)

What settings are you using ? 12.5x196, 12x203 ? Timings ? Did you increase the vcore ? I have mine at 10.5x200, didn't start OCing yet... I'm taking care of the sempron 2500 first /tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' />

I think it's reached its limit, I can't get it stable at 205... pumped the vcore, loosen the timings. memtest is fine but prime95 fails after 5 min /wacko.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wacko.gif' /> I'm gonna try pump the vcore, loose the timings and pump the vdimm. After that I'll give up and stay at a 357MHz OC /sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' />

-------------------------
Desktop:
AMD Athlon XP 2800+ (Barton) @ 200x10.5=2100MHz | Asus A7N8X Deluxe | Corsair 2xCMX512-3200C2PT @ 2.5-3-3-8 | MSI GeForce FX 5600 128MB | Hitachi Deskstar T7K250 160GB SATA II | Antec NeoPower 480W | Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Fatal1ty

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 12/01/2005 11:03 AM
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LongJohn
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QUOTE(cowen1000 @ Dec 1 2005, 12:35 PM)I agree with Boule, if you are seriously thinking of upgrading your cpu & mobo you should go to a socket 754 (at least)
You can buy a skt 754 mobo for the same price as a skt A and you could buy a Sempron 64 3000+ for less then an Athlon XP 3000+.
If you do that you would have a 64 bit machine /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

I have recently upgraded from an Athlon XP2800 (o/c'ed 2450Mhz) to a Sempron 64 2800+ (o/c'ed 2400 from it's 'stock' 1600 which gives me a P Rating of 4000+) /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />  So basically you could do the same. All you need is a good mobo (I recommend a DFI Lanparty UT nF3 250GB) and a Sempron 64 /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /> 
You could build that setup cheaper than a Skt A and get better performance!
[right][snapback]557812[/snapback][/right]


Man, I am getting confused. First of all thanks for the infos on the socket A cpus, when I tried to check prices pretty much all stores where out of the good ones. And if not, prices where horribly high (starting at 150 Euros).

Then I looked at prices on the above mentioned DFI board, I saw those at about 105Euros. But I've got some questions about the cpus now; how much difference does the L2 cache make ? since there are 128,256 and 512 available. is it worth spending 35% more on a cpu for 100% more L2 cache ? (80Euros/110Euros)

And how do I overclock them /blush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blush.gif' />
nah, you dont have to answer that right now, better to wait for when i have the hardware. But it should be done with that board right ?
@boule: which 2800+ do you have ? 256kb L2 cache ?

And would DualChannel DDR400 Ram 2*512MB be sufficient for that board ?

Thanks for the help guys, I guess I will get a socket 754 after all.

( I am from Germany, so prices and availability are a little different here, if you wonder about the prices I mention)
 12/01/2005 11:30 AM
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boule
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QUOTE(LongJohn @ Dec 1 2005, 05:03 PM)Man, I am getting confused. First of all thanks for the infos on the socket  A cpus, when I tried to check prices pretty much all stores where out of the good ones. And if not, prices where horribly high (starting at 150 Euros).

Then I looked at prices on the above mentioned DFI board, I saw those at about 105Euros. But I've got some questions about the cpus now; how much difference does the L2 cache make ? since there are 128,256 and 512 available. is it worth spending 35% more on a cpu for 100% more L2 cache ? (80Euros/110Euros)

And how do I overclock them  /blush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blush.gif' />
nah, you dont have to answer that right now, better to wait for when i have the hardware. But it should be done with that board right ?
@boule: which 2800+ do you have ? 256kb L2 cache ?

And would DualChannel DDR400 Ram 2*512MB be sufficient for that board ?

Thanks for the help guys, I guess I will get a socket 754 after all.

( I am from Germany, so prices and availability are a little different here, if you wonder about the prices I mention)


In general the more cache the better, so I'd say go for the 110. But more details would be better, like what are the 2 cpus ure talking about...

My Athlon XP 2800 has 512Kb L2 cache (all barton cores do)


-------------------------
Desktop:
AMD Athlon XP 2800+ (Barton) @ 200x10.5=2100MHz | Asus A7N8X Deluxe | Corsair 2xCMX512-3200C2PT @ 2.5-3-3-8 | MSI GeForce FX 5600 128MB | Hitachi Deskstar T7K250 160GB SATA II | Antec NeoPower 480W | Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Fatal1ty

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Dell Latitude 120L | Intel Pentium M 740 | OCZ 2x1GB PC2-5400 | Western Digital Scorpio WD1200VE 120GB
 12/01/2005 11:33 AM
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cowen1000
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@Boule
188x13 with VCore of 2v (P Rating 3400+) I maxed it @3700+ but became unstable after a few minutes /mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' />
I also had lots of cooling. 3xsystem fans (2 intake at front and 1 exhaust at back) and also I had an arctic cooler cpu cooler and arctic silver 5 thermal paste. I have still got that machine and it is solid as a rock, my daughter uses it now!
I had to do the L5 bridge mod (as described on my web) to unlock the multiplier!

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 12/01/2005 11:44 AM
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boule
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QUOTE(cowen1000 @ Dec 1 2005, 05:33 PM)@Boule
188x13 with VCore of 2v (P Rating 3400+) I maxed it @3700+ but became unstable after a few minutes /mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' />
I also had lots of cooling. 3xsystem fans (2 intake at front and 1 exhaust at back) and also I had an arctic cooler cpu cooler and arctic silver 5 thermal paste. I have still got that machine and it is solid as a rock, my daughter uses it now!
I had to do the L5 bridge mod (as described on my web) to unlock the multiplier!


Nice frequency ! But isn't that a dabgerously high vcore ? That's 21.21% increase !!!
What don't you lower your multiplier and raise the fsb to hit 200 ? Both your board and your ram handle it and you'll get better performance. The frequency will remain the same so you won't have stability issues... supposibly /wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' />

-------------------------
Desktop:
AMD Athlon XP 2800+ (Barton) @ 200x10.5=2100MHz | Asus A7N8X Deluxe | Corsair 2xCMX512-3200C2PT @ 2.5-3-3-8 | MSI GeForce FX 5600 128MB | Hitachi Deskstar T7K250 160GB SATA II | Antec NeoPower 480W | Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Fatal1ty

Laptop:
Dell Latitude 120L | Intel Pentium M 740 | OCZ 2x1GB PC2-5400 | Western Digital Scorpio WD1200VE 120GB
 12/01/2005 11:57 AM
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cowen1000
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QUOTE(boule @ Dec 1 2005, 08:44 AM)Nice frequency ! But isn't that a dabgerously high vcore ? That's 21.21% increase !!!
What don't you lower your multiplier and raise the fsb to hit 200 ? Both your board and your ram handle it and you'll get better performance. The frequency will remain the same so you won't have stability issues... supposibly  /wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' />
[right][snapback]557981[/snapback][/right]


I have always stuck to the rule that 'voltage doesn't kill stuff - heat does! More voltage = more heat. Therefore as long as you keep things cool you won't have any problems /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />
As far as the fsb is concerned, for some reason it doesn't matter how low I set the multi I can't raise the FSB more than 188 /mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /> that's why I stopped there and pushed the multi up. /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

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 12/01/2005 12:04 PM
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boule
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QUOTE(cowen1000 @ Dec 1 2005, 05:57 PM)I have always stuck to the rule that 'voltage doesn't kill stuff - heat does!  More voltage = more heat. Therefore as long as you keep things cool you won't have any problems /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />
As far as the fsb is concerned, for some reason it doesn't matter how low I set the multi I can't raise the FSB more than 188 /mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' />  that's why I stopped there and pushed the multi up. /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />


And I though 1.75 was high on the sempron, and I'm working on lowering it !! The heat is excellent though, it's running cooler than my stock 2800 (when it had the stock HS).

Sounds like a MB problem... sucks.

I'm having a hard time going beyond the 200, I still wasn't able to run my system at 205 (talking about the sempron, have'nt tried it with the athlon yet)

-------------------------
Desktop:
AMD Athlon XP 2800+ (Barton) @ 200x10.5=2100MHz | Asus A7N8X Deluxe | Corsair 2xCMX512-3200C2PT @ 2.5-3-3-8 | MSI GeForce FX 5600 128MB | Hitachi Deskstar T7K250 160GB SATA II | Antec NeoPower 480W | Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Fatal1ty

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Dell Latitude 120L | Intel Pentium M 740 | OCZ 2x1GB PC2-5400 | Western Digital Scorpio WD1200VE 120GB
 12/01/2005 12:08 PM
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cowen1000
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Oh and I forgot to add 'lots of stress testing'

Push your VCore up a little more, you will find that you can probably hit your 205 target /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /> Just watch the temps!

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 12/01/2005 12:11 PM
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boule
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QUOTE(cowen1000 @ Dec 1 2005, 06:08 PM)Oh and I forgot to add 'lots of stress testing'

Push your VCore up a little more, you will find that you can probably hit your 205 target /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />  Just watch the temps!


Hey, you're FAST !! /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

How did you do the testings ? I started a thread in General technology, but it doesn't seem too popular /sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' />
Did you mess with the ram timings ??

Ok, here's a question: If the ram passes the memtest86+ at 205, with timings like 2.5-3-3-7 (or 11), and prime95 failed, loosing the timings or pumping the VDimm can help the stability issue ?


-------------------------
Desktop:
AMD Athlon XP 2800+ (Barton) @ 200x10.5=2100MHz | Asus A7N8X Deluxe | Corsair 2xCMX512-3200C2PT @ 2.5-3-3-8 | MSI GeForce FX 5600 128MB | Hitachi Deskstar T7K250 160GB SATA II | Antec NeoPower 480W | Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Fatal1ty

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 12/01/2005 12:19 PM
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cowen1000
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No I left the mem timings at 'stock'.
For stress testing I always run (prime95, toast(in high mode) and heavyload) simultaneously all night. If you wake up in the morning and the system hasn't crashed you know you have a solid one /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

If your mem is passing memtest 86 @ 205 but you crash in windows then IMO it's not your mem, it's probably the cpu. INCREASE YOUR VCORE that will probably solve your problem.
Also how have you got your FSB/RAM divider set? Try slowing your mem clock down!

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 12/01/2005 12:53 PM
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boule
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QUOTE(cowen1000 @ Dec 1 2005, 06:19 PM)No I left the mem timings at 'stock'.
For stress testing I always run (prime95, toast(in high mode) and heavyload) simultaneously all night. If you wake up in the morning and the system hasn't crashed you know you have a solid one /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

If your mem is passing memtest 86 @ 205 but you crash in windows then IMO it's not your mem, it's probably the cpu. INCREASE YOUR VCORE that will probably solve your problem.
Also how have you got your FSB/RAM divider set? Try slowing your mem clock down!


They're in synch, it's the best settings for nforce2 chipsets. So if the ram can't take 205, it's better to run both at 200 than fsb210/ram200

I'm gonna try increase the vcore and post the results


-------------------------
Desktop:
AMD Athlon XP 2800+ (Barton) @ 200x10.5=2100MHz | Asus A7N8X Deluxe | Corsair 2xCMX512-3200C2PT @ 2.5-3-3-8 | MSI GeForce FX 5600 128MB | Hitachi Deskstar T7K250 160GB SATA II | Antec NeoPower 480W | Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Fatal1ty

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 12/01/2005 12:59 PM
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cowen1000
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Increase your VCore and increase your DDR voltage.

On my Sempron 64 pc I have my DDR voltage @3.10 which allows me to run my PC3200 @ 240 (solid as a rock)

Don't be scared of voltage! Be scared of heat! Watch your temps!

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 12/01/2005 10:18 PM
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LongJohn
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QUOTE(cowen1000 @ Dec 1 2005, 06:59 PM)Don't be scared of voltage! Be scared of heat! Watch your temps!
[right][snapback]558053[/snapback][/right]


/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /> thats funny...

@ boule

sorry I mixed you 2 up before, I meant cowens 2800+ (Sempron).
Or is your athlon2800+ a socket 754 too ?

@ cowem

So what kind of sempron64 do you have exactly ?

@ both

I got a little jealous and Ghz-greedy when I read cowens post:
QUOTE(cowen1000 @ Dec 1 2005, 12:35 PM)I agree with Boule, if you are seriously thinking of upgrading your cpu & mobo you should go to a socket 754 (at least)
You can buy a skt 754 mobo for the same price as a skt A and you could buy a Sempron 64 3000+ for less then an Athlon XP 3000+.
If you do that you would have a 64 bit machine /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

I have recently upgraded from an Athlon XP2800 (o/c'ed 2450Mhz) to a Sempron 64 2800+ (o/c'ed 2400 from it's 'stock' 1600 which gives me a P Rating of 4000+) /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />  So basically you could do the same. All you need is a good mobo (I recommend a DFI Lanparty UT nF3 250GB) and a Sempron 64 /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /> 
You could build that setup cheaper than a Skt A and get better performance!
[right][snapback]557812[/snapback][/right]


So I guess I will try to rebuild what you have proven good /wub.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wub.gif' />
And when I looked at the DFI Lanparty UT nF3 250GB on their HP I got really jealous !
It seems to have all the feature (and more) that I want ! And the nice round cables extra...wow /wacko.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wacko.gif' />

I also checked out cowens site and the howto of the multiplier bridge, sounds not too difficult, very nicely made /smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

About the RAM for the board, should I get 2x512MB or 1x1GB (DDR400) ?
Or is there no difference ?

I found the following CPUs, please recommend one (yours?) :
Athlon 64 2800+ Boxed, OPGA, "Clawhammer"
1800 MHz 512 kByte 800 MHz (HyperTransport) for 124Euros

Sempron64 2800+ Boxed, OPGA, "Palermo"
1600 MHz 256 kByte 800 MHz (HyperTransport) for 87,-

Sempron64 3000+ Boxed, OPGA, "Palermo"
1800 MHz 128 kByte 800 MHz (HyperTransport) for 99,-

I think I would like to get the Athlon (1st) for 124 Euros, with the extra cache.
But is it the same with the L5 bridges there ?
because thats definetly what I would try when I buy all that new stuff, to get it at top speed (with lots of fans /wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /> )

thanks for the help guys /smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />
 12/02/2005 03:50 AM
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cowen1000
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Posts: 857
Joined: 06/15/2004

No prob's,
Here to help /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

The difference between the Athlon 64 (754) and the Sempron 64 (754) is the L2 cache and the Athlon supports 'Cool and Quiet' also there clock speed's are slightly difference as well!

If you want to o/c then the sempron is for you as you can push it much further (as far as I know) and it costs less /biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

I have a Sempron 64 2800+ (clock speed 1600 (200 x 8 )) which I have o/c'ed to (2400 (300 x 8)) which gives me a P Rating of 4008+.
You can't unlock the multiplier's on the Sempron 754's so you just have to push your HT clock up (similar to FSB).

The DFI Lanparty is an absolute diamond, the 'genie bios' allows you to alter speed, voltage and timings for nearly every component on it. Good fo o/c'ing.

Check out DFI-Street.com' ">http://www.dfi-street.com that dfi's forum. I'm a new member there but you will see these mobo's are capable of awesome amounts, look at the 754 o/c'ing database. Some people are hitting way over 300

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