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Topic Title: Which one was better? IWill or Tyan.
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Created On: 12/24/2004 08:36 AM
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 12/24/2004 08:36 AM
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sparc0504
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Hello everybody!

I want to build a 2CPU workstation used the opteron processor. There have some motherboard that I can choose. How about your suggestion?

1. IWill DK8X: Used AMD 81xx chipset.
2. IWill DK8N: Used Nvidia Nforce 250pro chipset.
3. IWill DK8SE: Used Nvidia Nforce 4 SLi chipset(PCI-e).
3. Tyan S2881: Used AMD 81xx chipset.
4. Tyan S2885: Used AMD 81XX chipset.
5. Tyan S2895: Used Nforce 4 ultra chipset(PCI-e).

Because it was a workstation so I need one graphic slot (AGP or PCI-e). And I had 6 pcs 1GB DDRSDRAM so I need the DIMM slot large than six.

I have never used these two vendor's motherboard. So, can you give me your experience? Thanks!
 12/24/2004 09:59 AM
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ten
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Im kind of in the same boat myself. Ive got all the bits to my new DAW (digital audio workstation) apart from the mothboard as im holding out for one of these.

I think im going to wait for the tyan board myself as it has 2x nforce4 pro chipsets, aswell as the amd 8131 chipset driving the pci bus (It also has a legacy 32/33 pci slot which is routed through the nforce4 chipset instead of the amd 8131.) This is VERY important to me because the pci dsp audio cards I wish to use (UAD1 and tc powercore) have a known problem with amd 8131s bus parking, and there is no way to fix it apparently. So the only alternative is to route it through the 32/33 legacy slot using a magma pci expansion chassis.

Also the Tyan has 2 full 16x pci-e slots each on its own nforce4 pro chipset, even though im not planning on using SLI (this system will be running the new matrox parahelia APVe triple monitor pci-e card) as I will be 2D only, I will have a spare pci-e 16 slot for other pci-e cards, or I may try SLI in the future or SBS has a pci to pci-express expansion chassis so I could put my dsp cards in that and route through the pci-express (NICE!

Iwill also have the DK8EW which has SLI 8x8 lane pci-e (the DK8SE is one 16x and one 2x) which sounds very cool, and tbh I would rather an Iwill board over a Tyan, but I really need that legacy slot not routed through 8131 and the 2 nforce4 pro chipsets on the same board will be nice. (Also I belive A02 silicon NF4 boards had a problem reaching max hypertransport speed, hopefully both the newer boards will have A03)

ten

-------------------------
- Project TEN
- SuperMicro H8DCE nf4pro - 4x1GB Kingston HyperX ddr400/3200 er @ 2.5-3-3-6-1-numa
- 2x DualCore Opteron 275s - Thermalright XP90c - Thermaltake 92mm Silentcats
- 4x Raptor 73GB 10K sata drives (2x raid 0) - 2x Maxtor 300GB +10 sata drives<
 12/25/2004 01:39 PM
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mikebw
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Does either a Athlon 64 or a dual opteron board exist that will support both PCI-66 as well as PCI Express? I have a Tekram U320 SCSI Controller that is capable of 64 bit, and have used it on an XP machine, in 32bit mode. For two years, I have not found a board that will allow me to use the full capabilities of an AMD processor, in CPI-66. I have found boards that have AGP and PCI-66, I believe Tyan makes one now. But it seems these are also using older ram as well. For the the speed and performance that is touted by the maker of motherboards and these newer processors, I cannot find a single board out there that would latest ram, latest video(PCI Express) as well as latest PCI for what could only then be, a sure bet for 64-bit computing. An advice would be appreciated
 12/25/2004 07:36 PM
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ten
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Both the Tyan 'Thunder K8WEX' (S2895) and the IWill DK8ES/DK8EW feature pci-x 66 slots and PCI-Express slots and they are all Opteron only. I very much doubt you will see an Athlon board with pci-x and pci-express as pci-x is typically for server expansion boards only.

None of those boards are available yet but should be in Jan/Feb.

ten

-------------------------
- Project TEN
- SuperMicro H8DCE nf4pro - 4x1GB Kingston HyperX ddr400/3200 er @ 2.5-3-3-6-1-numa
- 2x DualCore Opteron 275s - Thermalright XP90c - Thermaltake 92mm Silentcats
- 4x Raptor 73GB 10K sata drives (2x raid 0) - 2x Maxtor 300GB +10 sata drives<
 01/02/2005 10:11 PM
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Calvn_Swing
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1. IWill DK8X: Used AMD 81xx chipset. - Nice board
2. IWill DK8N: Used Nvidia Nforce 250pro chipset. - also a nice board
3. IWill DK8SE: Used Nvidia Nforce 4 SLi chipset(PCI-e). - Ohh what a board!
3. Iwill DK8EW: Used Nvidia Nforce 4 SLi chipset(PCI-e). - SLI version of DK8SE!
3. Tyan S2881: Used AMD 81xx chipset. - doesn't have a graphics slot, has onboard ATI graphics.
4. Tyan S2885: Used AMD 81XX chipset. - Nice board
5. Tyan S2895: Used Nforce 4 ultra chipset(PCI-e). - This is my board of choice!!!

"I have never used these two vendor's motherboard. So, can you give me your experience? Thanks! "

Both vendors are experienced in the multi-processor motherboard area. Both vendors have very reliable products. Either way you won't be going wrong. They both have excellent reputations. The TYAN 2895 is definately the top performer in terms of features and furture-proofness. If SLI is unimportant, but PCI-e is important then get the DK8SE. If you don't care if it is PCI-e, wait till the PCI-e boards come out and pick up one of the "old" AGP boards for cheap! Of the AGP boards I prefer the TYAN Thunder K8W (s2885). But the Iwills are great boards too.

Best of luck!

-------------------------
Iwill Zmax DP SFF Barebones kit... (300W PSU, 8 USB, 1 FW, etc...)
Dual AMD Opteron 275's | 2 Gigs (2 Dimms 1024Mb) Patriot RAM 3-3-3-8
WD Caviar 80 Gig HDD - System
WD Raptor 74 Gig HDD
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256
NEC ND-3520A Dual Layer DVD±RW | Mitsumi Floppy/Card Reader combo
 02/09/2005 08:17 AM
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trotz
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QUOTE (ten @ Dec 24 2004, 06:59 AM)This is VERY important to me because the pci dsp audio cards I wish to use (UAD1 and tc powercore) have a known problem with amd 8131s bus parking, and there is no way to fix it apparently. 
Do you have any news on this subject?

Luckily I found out about this right now because I was going to build a NForce 4 AMD 3500+ DAW and already own two UAD-1 cards.

Thanks in advance por pointing me to any info on the subject.
 02/10/2005 09:00 AM
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ten
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You will be fine if its just an athlon setup, as no athlon board uses pci-x and/or the 8131 chipset. All athlon nf4 boards use the nf4 chipset only, so there will be no problem running your UAD cards in an athy nf4 board, only opteron boards with the 8131 pci-x tunnel chipset.

ten

-------------------------
- Project TEN
- SuperMicro H8DCE nf4pro - 4x1GB Kingston HyperX ddr400/3200 er @ 2.5-3-3-6-1-numa
- 2x DualCore Opteron 275s - Thermalright XP90c - Thermaltake 92mm Silentcats
- 4x Raptor 73GB 10K sata drives (2x raid 0) - 2x Maxtor 300GB +10 sata drives<
 02/10/2005 09:38 AM
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Calvn_Swing
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The new Nforce 4 boards for Opterons should be fine as well since they use the Nvidia MCP's and not the AMD ones. However, since I don't know if anyone has tried the audio cards you mentioned on an Nforce 4 board I can't say for sure.

-------------------------
Iwill Zmax DP SFF Barebones kit... (300W PSU, 8 USB, 1 FW, etc...)
Dual AMD Opteron 275's | 2 Gigs (2 Dimms 1024Mb) Patriot RAM 3-3-3-8
WD Caviar 80 Gig HDD - System
WD Raptor 74 Gig HDD
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256
NEC ND-3520A Dual Layer DVD±RW | Mitsumi Floppy/Card Reader combo
 02/10/2005 10:49 AM
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ten
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Thats incorrect for the boards that have pci-x slots. The new opteron boards that have just normal pci slots (new abit and asus) are all routed through the nf4 pro chip, as you say and will not have this problem. The higher end boards made by Tyan and Iwill both have pci-x slots and these are routed through the amd 8131 chipset still and will have the bus parking issue.

ten

-------------------------
- Project TEN
- SuperMicro H8DCE nf4pro - 4x1GB Kingston HyperX ddr400/3200 er @ 2.5-3-3-6-1-numa
- 2x DualCore Opteron 275s - Thermalright XP90c - Thermaltake 92mm Silentcats
- 4x Raptor 73GB 10K sata drives (2x raid 0) - 2x Maxtor 300GB +10 sata drives<
 02/10/2005 04:08 PM
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Calvn_Swing
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It may be incorrect as you say - they do indeed have the AMD chipset on them after all - which I was not aware. However, I did find this about the K8WE:

Two independent 64-bit PCI-X buses
- Slot 4 & 5: PCI-X 100 MHz max. (Bridge
- Slot 6: PCI-X 133 MHz max. (Bridge A)
• One 32-bit 33MHz PCI v2.3 (Slot 2)

It would appear that the Nvidia chips don't have PCI-x at all (looking at the technical specifications) hence the need for the AMD chip. However, they do have PCI capability, and it is possible that the single 32 bit 33Mhz PCI slot is running off the Nvidia chips. That might be worth a call to Tyan to find out.

I assumed the Nvidia chipset would have included PCI-x - My mistake! (That's what I get for being cocky) I don't know anything about your audio cards. Obviously if you are planning on putting them both in this motherboard wouldn't work. However, if you're only putting one in and it is designed for the 32bit 33Mhz slot it might still be an option. Or upgrade and get a new PCI-e dsp audio card?

Anyway, my mistake for not knowing and posting anyway! (I'm going to have to find those Nvidia people and make them pay. wink!

-------------------------
Iwill Zmax DP SFF Barebones kit... (300W PSU, 8 USB, 1 FW, etc...)
Dual AMD Opteron 275's | 2 Gigs (2 Dimms 1024Mb) Patriot RAM 3-3-3-8
WD Caviar 80 Gig HDD - System
WD Raptor 74 Gig HDD
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 256
NEC ND-3520A Dual Layer DVD±RW | Mitsumi Floppy/Card Reader combo
 02/10/2005 07:09 PM
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ten
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You are correct. The legacy 32/33 slot is routed through the nf4pro 2200 chipset on the Tyan 2985 (The new Iwills do not have a legacy slot at all and only 1 nf4pro chipset, not the additional nf4 2050 of the 2895.)

I already own a magma pci expansion chassis (7 slot 32/33) housing all my audio dsp cards, which I will hang off the 2895s 32/33 legacy pci slot bypassing the 8131 chipset all together. This would seem currently the best way to run a multiple UAD card setup with this board.

ten

-------------------------
- Project TEN
- SuperMicro H8DCE nf4pro - 4x1GB Kingston HyperX ddr400/3200 er @ 2.5-3-3-6-1-numa
- 2x DualCore Opteron 275s - Thermalright XP90c - Thermaltake 92mm Silentcats
- 4x Raptor 73GB 10K sata drives (2x raid 0) - 2x Maxtor 300GB +10 sata drives<
 02/11/2005 10:20 AM
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sparc0504
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Thanks for your suggestion everybody!

I am wonder why Iwill & Tyan don't implement more PCI-e slot on their product. Because by the nVidia spec shown the nForce4 2200 or 2050 all have 20 lanes of PCI-e, so they can implement SLi with additional 4x PCI-e lanes (or 8x PCI-e lanes when used 2200+2050).
In actually, I am prefer the expansion slot combination like SLi + 2x4Lanes PCI-e + 3x PCI 32-bit/33MHz. Because I think the PCI-e can replace PCI-X. And it can be cost down by removed the PCI-X bridge.
Hope there will have more PCI-e expansion card on the recent month.
 02/11/2005 11:58 AM
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ten
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Check this puppy out..



This is nvidias reference board for nforce4 pro server/workstation boards.

8x SATAII ports, dual gbit ethernet, dual 16x graphics slots (it looks like true full 16x for both slots as I can see twin nforce4 pro chipsets, just like the 2895), dual 4x pci-e slots, and one 8x pci-e slot.

I would LOVE to be able to purchase this board, its exactly what I would want. Loads of pci-e options, 8 sataII ports (instead of 4 on the tyan) 1 legacy pci slot I could hang my magma chassis off and no crappy amd 8131 chipset to fu*k things up.

I think this kind of board would of sold like hot cakes also, shame it will never see the light of day (not in the near future anyway.) It would seem companies like tyan and iwill want to stay faithfull to the server market by implementing pci-x slots which I guess is fair enough, but it would be nice to have the choice. Someone really needs to look into making this board tho, its the mother of dualies

ten

-------------------------
- Project TEN
- SuperMicro H8DCE nf4pro - 4x1GB Kingston HyperX ddr400/3200 er @ 2.5-3-3-6-1-numa
- 2x DualCore Opteron 275s - Thermalright XP90c - Thermaltake 92mm Silentcats
- 4x Raptor 73GB 10K sata drives (2x raid 0) - 2x Maxtor 300GB +10 sata drives<
 02/17/2005 10:57 PM
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OrangesAway
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If the need is to avoid the 8131 PCI-X busses, you could also do a PCI-Express -> PCI Expansion board, but youd have to test if that with your audio cards to see if it works well. One is available (or soon will be) from SBS Technologies PCI-Express to PCI-X Expansion' ">http://www.sbs.com/products/family/32/

Or everyone can wait for motherboard makers to start including the AMD 8132 PCI-X 2.0 Tunnel' ">http://www.amd.com/us-en/Proce...0_182_739_9004,00.html as a replacement which hopefully might not have the same issues

PS: I know may be redundant to the Magma Expansion Chassis, but just another option to avoid the 8131 connected PCI-X busses
 03/21/2005 04:03 AM
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GNUS inc
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Iwill DK8EW is not a SLI version of DK8ES.
It's different boards.

Also Iwill is based on digital VRM design, that allow to avoid capacity fail issues

-------------------------
AMD rulezzzzz!
www.etegro.com
 05/01/2005 04:42 AM
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zoom314
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QUOTE (GNUS inc @ Mar 21 2005, 12:03 AM)Iwill DK8EW is not a SLI version of DK8ES.
It's different boards.

Also Iwill is based on digital VRM design, that allow to avoid capacity fail issues
Not quite, the DK8EW is a subset of the DK8ES, As in some features are just missing some parts. My blog shows the two motherboards plus a few others too. See My sig for My blog link.

Edit: Oh and look in the 18th entry.

-------------------------
My Blog' ">http://zoom314.blogspot.com/, My Website' ">http://mysite.verizon.net/zoom314/
Joker1: 2-2.2GHz Opteron 248 E4 Mar&Jun 2006[Supermicro H8DCE]Cat5
Joker2: *2.40GHz[MSI K8T Neo2-F]Cat5
(*2.40 (6.80?)GHz crunchin for SETI with the Athlonmb.com Seti Killer Frogs' ">http://forums.pcper.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17)<
 05/05/2005 11:32 AM
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Dvalleyjim
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http://forum.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=3930' ">http://forum.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=3930
http://forum.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=121' ">http://forum.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=121

I use the s2885 with 3 uad-1 and have noticed this problem with the 81xx chipset.
I think it's the 8131 agp tunnel thing

what happens is in 96k project adding uad-1 plugins causes the hosts cpu usage to max out.

the first link deals with perfomance tests on the s2895

the second link uses a test nuendo project to see whose system is kicking

I just bougt a magmum/avid/digidesign chassis off of ebay. I'll hang this off the 33mhz slot and see if i can get the uad-1 rocking.

you know this is still a bitching setup even without the magmum

-------------------------
Tyan K8W s2885, 2-280 opteron, 2 gig corsair, Windows XP pro, 4 Seagate Barracudas, Lynx AES-16 w/ Aroura 16, 3-UAD-1, Nuendo4, Wavelab6. Lot;s of Plugs,
 05/06/2005 10:47 AM
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ten
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I have 4 uads and 2 powercores in a magma chassis connected to the 32/33 pci slot on the 2895 (I actually posted some results to that Nuendo forum also)

Its working amazingly, I cant believe how well this system is running, seriously the 2895 is an AWESOME board for daw use. Recommended totally.

ten

-------------------------
- Project TEN
- SuperMicro H8DCE nf4pro - 4x1GB Kingston HyperX ddr400/3200 er @ 2.5-3-3-6-1-numa
- 2x DualCore Opteron 275s - Thermalright XP90c - Thermaltake 92mm Silentcats
- 4x Raptor 73GB 10K sata drives (2x raid 0) - 2x Maxtor 300GB +10 sata drives<
 05/23/2005 11:27 PM
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Patanjali Sokaris
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ten,

What sample rate do you run your system at?

What Magma chassis are you running? How much was it?

I know the UAD-1 will go to 66MHz, but have been wondering how many could be run in a 32bit, 33MHz slot under real loads.

Thanks, Patanjali
 05/24/2005 03:45 AM
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GNUS inc
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zoom314

DK8EW and DK8ES PCBs are different.

-------------------------
AMD rulezzzzz!
www.etegro.com
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