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Topic Title: Does Tyan K8W S2885 support Dual-cores?
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Created On: 06/14/2005 10:47 AM
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 12/01/2005 11:41 AM
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mckennma
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QUOTE(WebColin @ Dec 1 2005, 11:55 AM)I just want to be sure I'm clear on this - is it impossible to install dual core Opterons in an earlier revision motherboard? Or are there just certain limits imposed by not running the system with E6 stepping? My motherboard appears to be the first run K8W/S2885 (just MOA, no number).

There is nothing on TYAN's site that says the K8W will not work with dual core processors (just the note that Rev 04MOA or higher is required for E6 stepping) and nothing I can find on AMD's site that says the dual core Opteron's require E6 stepping. This would suggest to me that we can run dual core Opterons on any K8W S2885 boaord, just that earlier revisions will have to go without E6 stepping.

What does E6 stepping do anyway?

Thanks,
Colin
[right][snapback]557907[/snapback][/right]


The AMD dual core Opterons are E6 stepping. Ex Stepping gives full DDR400 support. Cx stepping did not fully support DDR400 and could result in RAM being reduced to 333 MHz in certain configurations. If you don't have a certain rev level on the motherboard, you can't run dual core Opterons. You will have to run single core Cx or E4 stepping Opterons.



-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
 12/14/2005 06:41 AM
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WebColin
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QUOTE(mckennma @ Dec 1 2005, 12:41 PM)The AMD dual core Opterons are E6 stepping.  Ex Stepping gives full DDR400 support.  Cx stepping did not fully support DDR400 and could result in RAM being reduced to 333 MHz in certain configurations.  If you don't have a certain rev level on the motherboard, you can't run dual core Opterons.  You will have to run single core Cx or E4 stepping Opterons.
[right][snapback]557975[/snapback][/right]



Thanks for explaining that. I still have the same question, but maybe I can articulate it better now: Does that mean that I can use dual core Opterons in my early Rev motherboard, but will simply be limited to DDR333 memory with those dual core CPUs? Especially as newer apps are better designed to be multi-threaded (games will really push this, but multi-media business apps and databases will begin to also), dual core chips are more important than RAM speed anyway (at least between 333 and 400).

Or put another way, just because a CPU is E6 stepping, does that mean that it won't work at all on a motherboard that doesn't support E6 stepping, or just that it will be feature limited?

Thanks,
Colin
 12/14/2005 09:16 AM
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mckennma
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QUOTE(WebColin @ Dec 14 2005, 07:41 AM)Thanks for explaining that. I still have the same question, but maybe I can articulate it better now: Does that mean that I can use dual core Opterons in my early Rev motherboard, but will simply be limited to DDR333 memory with those dual core CPUs? Especially as newer apps are better designed to be multi-threaded (games will really push this, but multi-media business apps and databases will begin to also), dual core chips are more important than RAM speed anyway (at least between 333 and 400).

Or put another way, just because a CPU is E6 stepping, does that mean that it won't work at all on a motherboard that doesn't support E6 stepping, or just that it will be feature limited?

Thanks,
Colin
[right][snapback]566024[/snapback][/right]


CPU support for E Stepping CPU requires PCB Revision 04MOAb. See more information here .

Find rev' ">http://www.tyan.com/support/as...images/s2885_revID.jpg

If your board is older than the rev listed above, it will not work. What rev do you have?

-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
 12/14/2005 10:45 AM
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WebColin
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QUOTE(mckennma @ Dec 14 2005, 10:16 AM)CPU support for E Stepping CPU requires PCB Revision 04MOAb. See more information here .

Find rev' ">http://www.tyan.com/support/as...images/s2885_revID.jpg

If your board is older than the rev listed above, it will not work.  What rev do you have?
[right][snapback]566128[/snapback][/right]



I know that. I'm familiar with that wording on Tyan's web site:

http://www.tyan.com/support/ht...thlo...on_opteron.html' ">http://www.tyan.com/support/ht...lon_duron_opteron.html

It's not conclusive. I have MOA only (must be an original - frustrating, b/c I didn't buy it that long ago). My question is: do dual core CPU's require E6 stepping?

The line you quote from Tyan's site could mean that the 04MOAb rev of the S2885 board is required for any of the newer CPU's that use E4 or E6 stepping (as I think you are concluding), or it could just mean that the CPU's work, but there is no support for E6 stepping, so they work in a reduced capacity (but still potentially more speed/power than single core CPU's).

Hence my question: is E6 stepping absolutely required to use the dual core CPU's? If yes, how can you be sure (nothing on Tyan's or AMD's site specifically says that the S2885 K8W board won't work with dual core CPU's)? If no, what functionality is lost when putting dual core CPU's onto an older non-E6 stepping motherboard? Just full speed support for DDR400 memory?

Thanks,
Colin
 12/14/2005 11:46 AM
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mckennma
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QUOTE(WebColin @ Dec 14 2005, 11:45 AM)I know that. I'm familiar with that wording on Tyan's web site:

http://www.tyan.com/support/ht...thlo...on_opteron.html' ">http://www.tyan.com/support/ht...lon_duron_opteron.html

It's not conclusive. I have MOA only (must be an original - frustrating, b/c I didn't buy it that long ago). My question is: do dual core CPU's require E6 stepping?

The line you quote from Tyan's site could mean that the 04MOAb rev of the S2885 board is required for any of the newer CPU's that use E4 or E6 stepping (as I think you are concluding), or it could just mean that the CPU's work, but there is no support for E6 stepping, so they work in a reduced capacity (but still potentially more speed/power than single core CPU's).

Hence my question: is E6 stepping absolutely required to use the dual core CPU's? If yes, how can you be sure (nothing on Tyan's or AMD's site specifically says that the S2885 K8W board won't work with dual core CPU's)? If no, what functionality is lost when putting dual core CPU's onto an older non-E6 stepping motherboard? Just full speed support for DDR400 memory?

Thanks,
Colin
[right][snapback]566206[/snapback][/right]


Huh? You are thinking backwards. All of the Dual Core Opterons are E6 stepping.


-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
 12/14/2005 12:05 PM
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WebColin
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QUOTE(mckennma @ Dec 14 2005, 12:46 PM)Huh? You are thinking backwards.  All of the Dual Core Opterons are E6 stepping.
[right][snapback]566265[/snapback][/right]


Argh. Am I really being this unclear?

I know that.

If the chip is E6 stepping, does that mean the motherboard must supporth E6 stepping for the chip to work?

 12/14/2005 12:16 PM
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mckennma
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QUOTE(WebColin @ Dec 14 2005, 01:05 PM)Argh. Am I really being this unclear?

I know that.

If the chip is E6 stepping, does that mean the motherboard must supporth E6 stepping for the chip to work?
[right][snapback]566291[/snapback][/right]


1.) All Dual Core opterons are E6 Stepping
2.) Your motherboard rev does not support Ex stepping (x is 4 or 6)

So no. You will have to use the earlier Cx stepping single cores or upgrade the motherboard. You could not even use the newer E4 Stepping 90nm Opterons.


-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
 12/14/2005 12:59 PM
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Flintstone
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1. E6 Steppings weren't around when your revision board was concieved.
2. E6 stepping CPU's are ALL dual core chips.
3. There is "NO E6 Stepping Board", however there are boards capable of running E6 stepping chips.
4. The motherboard MUST support E6 stepping chips for it to support dual cores. It is apparently an onboard power regulation issue where the older boards' VRM's are not able to supply enough power to the chips to run them stabily.

I hope that helps!!

Flint

-------------------------
2 X 250 "E" Opterons, S2895 A2NRF (K8WE) beta bios 1.01T
4 X(2x 512MB Matched) Corsair 3200 Reg ECC(TWINX1024RE-3200LLPT)
nVidia 6800GT, LSI 320-2X U320 Raid (512MB ram Onboard!!)
7 X 15,000 RPM U320 Drives, XP Pro SP2
PC Power & Cooling 850 SSI
IT WORKS!!! AND IT'S TYAN'S TECH SUPPORT THAT DID IT!!!!
 08/24/2009 02:18 AM
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motminh
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I know this is years to late to help most folks... but derGhostrider is on the right track.

The 04MOA revision has beefier CPU VRM circuits.

The original Opteron revisions A0,B0-3,C0,CG (130nm process) had a TDP of 89W. This is what Tyan designed their motherboard VRM circuits around.

Then some genus at AMD didn't realize how important VRM's are to CPU's and the implications of increasing the TDP to 95W for revision E (90nm process). Thus the 100% compatible story went out he window.

With the 89W->95W change many Opteron boards were not able to provide the needed power if the processor pulled the full 95W TDP. Now most Opteron processors don't draw the full TDP - that's the absolute max. This is especially true of the 90nm single-core revision E processors. This is why Tyan can support them in all K8W S2885 motherboards.

The only different between the 04MOA and earlier revision motherboards is the CPU VRM's and added heatsinks on the mosfets. This is why the same BIOS releases work for any K8W S2885 motherboard. There is nothing else different about the revisions.

So if you flash the dual-core supporting BIOS on any K8W motherboard, dual-core CPU's will work if they don't pull more than 89W. Many 275 and slower fall into this category. You can use any "OSK" Opteron "HE" 55W processors in any K8W S2885 motherboard as they are well below 89W. There are also "OSP" 68W and "OST" 85W variants.

The same is true for the Tyan s2875, s2882 and even s2850 motherboards (I have had all three). Tyan redesigned the CPU VRM circuits for the re-spun s2882-D which support a full 95W TDP. The s2875 and s2850 weren't perceived to have enough life left in them to do a respin. But low-power dual-core Opterons will work in them.

The 89W->95W TDP is one reason motherboards such as the MSI MS-9131 K8D Master-F motherboard don't support revision E processors - MSI would have had to respin the board. They decided to just abandon the MS-9131 instead.

Edited: 08/24/2009 at 02:35 AM by motminh
 08/24/2009 09:41 AM
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derGhostrider
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Well I switched to a Supermicro H8DCi and put two OSP Opterons (68W TDP) on it. That solved all my problems.
Next system (that will arrive during the next week) is based on dual Intel Xeon X5550 on a Supermicro X8DAH+. Sorry for that but CPUs from AMD just do not have the ability to compete at the moment. :-(
I also hope that the new System won't cause years of trouble as the Thunder S2885 did (trouble with the PSU, trouble with the buggy AGP-Bridge AMD8151, ...). This time it is Supermicro right from the beginning.

-------------------------
Regards,
  Ghostrider

·CPUs - 2*Opteron 246
·Mainboard - Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF
·RAM - 4*Corsair TwinX1024RE-3200LL (4GB, 8*512MB, DDR400, 2-3-2)
·Graphics - HIS IceQ-II X800Pro
·HDD - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD, 74GB, 10k
·RAID - 3Ware 7850, 64bit PCI, 8chn hardware RAID
·RAID-HDDs - 5*WD800JB
·Optical - 1*SlimSize CD-ROM; 1*NEC7441 DVD-RW
·Sound - Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro

 12/09/2009 01:34 PM
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rodrick
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Thanks for the link,
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