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Topic Title: ZALMAN Reserator for Dual-Opteron...
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Created On: 01/17/2005 07:00 PM
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 01/17/2005 07:00 PM
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derGhostrider
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Hi!

I never liked the idea of adding WATER to one of my systems. I am always the one of thousands that has bad luck...

Well, I saw the "ZALMAN Reserator", a complete fanless water cooling solution that should be powerful enough for a high-end CPU and an additional graphics card. But would it be powerful enough for a dual-Opteron (246ers and up)?
Are there other passive cooled solutions that can handle a dual Opteron 246 out there? Maybe even pre-assembled so that I have a warranty if any fluid will kill my system?

I am still not sure if it is a good idea to add a watercooling to such an expensive system but I don't like the noise of the fans anymore.

Ideas and comments are welcome!

-------------------------
Regards,
  Ghostrider

·CPUs - 2*Opteron 246
·Mainboard - Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF
·RAM - 4*Corsair TwinX1024RE-3200LL (4GB, 8*512MB, DDR400, 2-3-2)
·Graphics - HIS IceQ-II X800Pro
·HDD - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD, 74GB, 10k
·RAID - 3Ware 7850, 64bit PCI, 8chn hardware RAID
·RAID-HDDs - 5*WD800JB
·Optical - 1*SlimSize CD-ROM; 1*NEC7441 DVD-RW
·Sound - Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro

 01/30/2005 08:31 PM
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Nucleon
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that's exactly what I've just installed half an hour ago. I've got a Tiger K8W with two 248's in it. The problem is that other parts of the mainboard don't get cooled anymore so I've not been able to succesfully log on to windows. The systems hangs everytime after about 30 seconds. Bios says both cpu's are at 19 degrees celsius and sofar I've not been able to find a part that gets too hot.
 01/31/2005 12:07 PM
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derGhostrider
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QUOTE (Nucleon @ Jan 31 2005, 03:31 AM) that's exactly what I've just installed half an hour ago. I've got a Tiger K8W with two 248's in it. The problem is that other parts of the mainboard don't get cooled anymore so I've not been able to succesfully log on to windows. The systems hangs everytime after about 30 seconds. Bios says both cpu's are at 19 degrees celsius and sofar I've not been able to find a part that gets too hot.
I mentioned several colling solutions. Just to clarify it for myself: You use ONE Zalman Reserator to cool BOTH 248s?
(Well, it should be enough because a high end graphics card produces as much heat as an Opteron. 9800PRO or XT emit about 89W)

When does your system stop responding? During the BIOS POST or later during the boot process?

Have you applied any plugs to the CPU-FAN-headers? My first guess (if the systems stops VERY early during the boot up) would be some kind of temperature protection that realizes "missing CPU fans".

-------------------------
Regards,
  Ghostrider

·CPUs - 2*Opteron 246
·Mainboard - Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF
·RAM - 4*Corsair TwinX1024RE-3200LL (4GB, 8*512MB, DDR400, 2-3-2)
·Graphics - HIS IceQ-II X800Pro
·HDD - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD, 74GB, 10k
·RAID - 3Ware 7850, 64bit PCI, 8chn hardware RAID
·RAID-HDDs - 5*WD800JB
·Optical - 1*SlimSize CD-ROM; 1*NEC7441 DVD-RW
·Sound - Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro

 01/31/2005 12:12 PM
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ZapWizard
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I agree with the above on the "missing CPU fans"
There may be a setting in the BIOS.

I also suggest that you still need a little bit of airflow in the case for "Passive" cooled components. For this you can use a large 120mm fan and use a fan controller to slow it down, keeping it quiet.
My next case will be watercooled, but I will still have a 80mm fan running at 1% normal speed, just enough to ensure a flow of air.

On the origninal question, yes I do think a single Zalman radiator could cool two opterons.
They are very large, and work well according to reviews and people I have talked to who own them.

It wouldn't hurt to at least try with a single unit.
Worst case is it does get a bit warm, and you simply add another.

-------------------------
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The opinions expressed above do not represent the views of Advanced Micro Devices or any of their affiliates.
 01/31/2005 12:40 PM
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derGhostrider
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QUOTE (ZapWizard @ Jan 31 2005, 07:12 PM) I also suggest that you still need a little bit of airflow in the case for "Passive" cooled components. For this you can use a large 120mm fan and use a fan controller to slow it down, keeping it quiet.
My next case will be watercooled, but I will still have a 80mm fan running at 1% normal speed, just enough to ensure a flow of air.

On the origninal question, yes I do think a single Zalman radiator could cool two opterons.
They are very large, and work well according to reviews and people I have talked to who own them.

It wouldn't hurt to at least try with a single unit.
Worst case is it does get a bit warm, and you simply add another.
Agreed. There should be atleast a silent, slow spinning exhaust fan in the system. Memory, chipset, PCI-cards, graphics card, harddrives, etc... all these components produce also heat that should be transported out of the case. Worst scenario: A hot spot at a place without any air movement.

There are fans at a very very low noiselevel (<11dB! available at a shop called "Noiseblocker" ( http://www.noiseblocker.de/shop/en_EN/Index' ">http://www.noiseblocker.de/shop/en_EN/Index ).
I have some of them already and they provide better airflow at less noise than the most quiet PAPST fan. And this at lower costs AND with an additional 3yrs warranty.

----

My "biggest" problem with the Zalman Reserator is the size of it. It can't be screwed to the case or anything like this so the system will not be transportable after the Reserator is installed. My server case is already VERY large and heavy (30kg or above). OK, the last 6 months it had not moved anywhere but sometimes I move the computer equipment from one flat into the other.... Any ideas how to solve this issue except: "use something else than the Reserator"?

-------------------------
Regards,
  Ghostrider

·CPUs - 2*Opteron 246
·Mainboard - Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF
·RAM - 4*Corsair TwinX1024RE-3200LL (4GB, 8*512MB, DDR400, 2-3-2)
·Graphics - HIS IceQ-II X800Pro
·HDD - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD, 74GB, 10k
·RAID - 3Ware 7850, 64bit PCI, 8chn hardware RAID
·RAID-HDDs - 5*WD800JB
·Optical - 1*SlimSize CD-ROM; 1*NEC7441 DVD-RW
·Sound - Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro

 01/31/2005 02:34 PM
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J1NG
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I don't have much experience with water cooling yet, it's likely something for my next setup. But from what I can imagine. Won't any kind of water cooling, make transportation of a PC (much less a high spec'ed one) difficult? In which case, would the size of the reservator really be that much of a problem?

Just my uninformed opinion here. If someone knows better, do tell.

J1NG
 01/31/2005 03:07 PM
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ZapWizard
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Most watercooling doesn't effect the ability to transport the computer any less.
In fact at most LAN events I have been to about 50% of the PC's are watercooled including mine.

The Zalman is another story. At QuakeCon the guy with the zalaman had to have is girlfriend hold the radiator, while he held the PC in order to move it.
The way around this is to install valves to disconnect the cooler.

-------------------------
' ">http://www.ZapWizard.com
The opinions expressed above do not represent the views of Advanced Micro Devices or any of their affiliates.
 01/31/2005 08:33 PM
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Nucleon
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thanks for all the replies but the problem has been solved. I guess I was a bit sloppy when installing the board into the case which (probably) caused *some* part to shortcircuit when warming up and expanding. I reinstalled everything and now the system works like a charm. Idle temperatures (Dual 248 and Radeon 9800 pro) are at 29 degrees celsius after running for about an hour. For some reason I can't get a temperature readout when in windows so I don't know any temps at full load but I guess they are somewhere between 40 and 45 degrees. Is this a known problem and do I need to flash my BIOS?

There are 2 fans in the case taking out the hot air so no need to worry about that

to make a long story short; I can definitely recommend installing a reserator. It comes in a great package with all the parts you need, it's 100% noiseless (distant humming when ear is next to the reserator) and cooling capacity seems to be enough.
 02/01/2005 06:36 AM
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derGhostrider
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QUOTE (Nucleon @ Feb 1 2005, 03:33 AM) thanks for all the replies but the problem has been solved. I guess I was a bit sloppy when installing the board into the case which (probably) caused *some* part to shortcircuit when warming up and expanding. I reinstalled everything and now the system works like a charm. Idle temperatures (Dual 248 and Radeon 9800 pro) are at 29 degrees celsius after running for about an hour. For some reason I can't get a temperature readout when in windows so I don't know any temps at full load but I guess they are somewhere between 40 and 45 degrees. Is this a known problem and do I need to flash my BIOS?

There are 2 fans in the case taking out the hot air so no need to worry about that

to make a long story short; I can definitely recommend installing a reserator. It comes in a great package with all the parts you need, it's 100% noiseless (distant humming when ear is next to the reserator) and cooling capacity seems to be enough.
No Temp readings: try a BIOS-Update if you don't have the newest version already.

With the THUNDER K8W (so not your board) there has been a BIOS revision (2.02) that caused all temperature readings to fail.

Do you cool both CPUs and the graphics card with the reserator or "just" the CPUs?

-------------------------
Regards,
  Ghostrider

·CPUs - 2*Opteron 246
·Mainboard - Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF
·RAM - 4*Corsair TwinX1024RE-3200LL (4GB, 8*512MB, DDR400, 2-3-2)
·Graphics - HIS IceQ-II X800Pro
·HDD - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD, 74GB, 10k
·RAID - 3Ware 7850, 64bit PCI, 8chn hardware RAID
·RAID-HDDs - 5*WD800JB
·Optical - 1*SlimSize CD-ROM; 1*NEC7441 DVD-RW
·Sound - Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro

 02/01/2005 07:37 AM
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Nucleon
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QUOTE (derGhostrider @ Feb 1 2005, 03:36 AM) QUOTE (Nucleon @ Feb 1 2005, 03:33 AM) thanks for all the replies but the problem has been solved. I guess I was a bit sloppy when installing the board into the case which (probably) caused *some* part to shortcircuit when warming up and expanding. I reinstalled everything  and now the system works like a charm. Idle temperatures (Dual 248 and Radeon 9800 pro) are at 29 degrees celsius after running for about an hour. For some reason I can't get a temperature readout when in windows so I don't know any temps at full load but I guess they are somewhere between 40 and 45 degrees. Is this a known problem and do I need to flash my BIOS?

There are 2 fans in the case taking out the hot air so no need to worry about that

to make a long story short; I can definitely recommend installing a reserator. It comes in a great package with all the parts you need, it's 100% noiseless (distant humming when ear is next to the reserator) and cooling capacity seems to be enough.
No Temp readings: try a BIOS-Update if you don't have the newest version already.

With the THUNDER K8W (so not your board) there has been a BIOS revision (2.02) that caused all temperature readings to fail.

Do you cool both CPUs and the graphics card with the reserator or "just" the CPUs?
Yes Both the CPU's and the graphics card. Yesterday I started Sisoft Sandra's Burn-in test and 3D Mark05 both looping contiously and my system is still up and running.
 02/01/2005 09:36 AM
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derGhostrider
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QUOTE (Nucleon @ Feb 1 2005, 02:37 PM) Yes Both the CPU's and the graphics card. Yesterday I started Sisoft Sandra's Burn-in test and 3D Mark05 both looping contiously and my system is still up and running.
That sounds really, really good. Would be nice to see some temps of the system under full load.

I think that I will order a Reserator myself. At first for my old (loud) system to play around and get some experience handling it and MAYBE after that another one for my dual Opteron.

-------------------------
Regards,
  Ghostrider

·CPUs - 2*Opteron 246
·Mainboard - Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF
·RAM - 4*Corsair TwinX1024RE-3200LL (4GB, 8*512MB, DDR400, 2-3-2)
·Graphics - HIS IceQ-II X800Pro
·HDD - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD, 74GB, 10k
·RAID - 3Ware 7850, 64bit PCI, 8chn hardware RAID
·RAID-HDDs - 5*WD800JB
·Optical - 1*SlimSize CD-ROM; 1*NEC7441 DVD-RW
·Sound - Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro

 02/01/2005 06:30 PM
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Nucleon
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QUOTE (derGhostrider @ Feb 1 2005, 06:36 AM) That sounds really, really good. Would be nice to see some temps of the system under full load.

I think that I will order a Reserator myself. At first for my old (loud) system to play around and get some experience handling it and MAYBE after that another one for my dual Opteron.
I don't know any temps at full load (will be flashing my BIOS in a sec) so I hope I can give you those later. I must say the reserator is pretty hot right now and my system just locked up after playing half-life for about an hour while running a distributed.net client. 2 cpu's should not be much of a problem but adding a videocard maybe too much. (that means I'm recalling my previous post saying my systems runs like a charm). I might be able to get a second reserator (just the 'cooling tower' for only 50 euro's so I hope to eliminate any overheating adding it to the system.
 02/03/2005 07:22 AM
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derGhostrider
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I have to paddle back, too: My "old" Tyan Tiger S2466N does not have mounting holes next to the CPU-sockets. Not even any reserved free space for the holes so that I could drill the holes myself. (Yes, I would do it!
=> No way to add the clip for the CPU-Waterblock.

Could you use the "standard" metal backplate to apply the Waterblock or do you really have to use the backplate that came with the reserator?
I will not (be able to) remove the backplates from my Tyan Thunder K8W! The adhesive is much to strong. I would risk to destroy the board removing the backplates.

Could you please try to screw one of the screws from the CPU-Waterblock into the stands of an original backplate? Do they fit and are they (nearly) as high as the Zalman stands? So even if you don't use a standard backplate: Would it be possible?

Thanks in advance!

Ghostrider

-------------------------
Regards,
  Ghostrider

·CPUs - 2*Opteron 246
·Mainboard - Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF
·RAM - 4*Corsair TwinX1024RE-3200LL (4GB, 8*512MB, DDR400, 2-3-2)
·Graphics - HIS IceQ-II X800Pro
·HDD - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD, 74GB, 10k
·RAID - 3Ware 7850, 64bit PCI, 8chn hardware RAID
·RAID-HDDs - 5*WD800JB
·Optical - 1*SlimSize CD-ROM; 1*NEC7441 DVD-RW
·Sound - Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro

 02/04/2005 12:16 PM
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Nucleon
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I've used the backplates that came with the reserator but using the mainboard backplates shouldn't be a problem I guess. I'm at work right now but I'll try fitting them in the original backplates tonight.

update:
they fit
 02/07/2005 04:55 PM
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Cloudbase
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Nucleon,

I am about to purchase a Reserator for my dual opteron (242) system too, but was just wondering: did you connect the cpu blocks in parallel (with a T-connector) or in series (simply one after the other)?

I would think that in a serial-connection the heat extracted from cpu1 would diminish the cooling capability left for cpu2. If you did connect them in series, do you find a temp difference for cpu1 vs cpu2?

Thanks a lot for the valuable info!
 02/08/2005 08:22 AM
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derGhostrider
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QUOTE (Cloudbase @ Feb 7 2005, 11:55 PM) Nucleon,

I am about to purchase a Reserator for my dual opteron (242) system too, but was just wondering: did you connect the cpu blocks in parallel (with a T-connector) or in series (simply one after the other)?

I would think that in a serial-connection the heat extracted from cpu1 would diminish the cooling capability left for cpu2. If you did connect them in series, do you find a temp difference for cpu1 vs cpu2?

Thanks a lot for the valuable info!
I think that a connection in series would be the better solution. A T-connector will decrease the flow of liquid through both CPUs which might/will have much more influence in the cooling performance than a liquid which has been warmed up by a few degrees.

-------------------------
Regards,
  Ghostrider

·CPUs - 2*Opteron 246
·Mainboard - Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF
·RAM - 4*Corsair TwinX1024RE-3200LL (4GB, 8*512MB, DDR400, 2-3-2)
·Graphics - HIS IceQ-II X800Pro
·HDD - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD, 74GB, 10k
·RAID - 3Ware 7850, 64bit PCI, 8chn hardware RAID
·RAID-HDDs - 5*WD800JB
·Optical - 1*SlimSize CD-ROM; 1*NEC7441 DVD-RW
·Sound - Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro

 02/08/2005 08:50 AM
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redclawkefar
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i agree with ghost... doing a simple thermal fluid analysis suggesats that a series setup is better. if you have a T connector, the decrease in flow rate leave warmer fluid on the cpu longer diminishing the effect. with series connection, faster flow removes warmer fluid, even if the second cpu is a slight bit warmer, you're beter off than both being hotter.

-------------------------
SYSTEM-1: 2x Viewsonic VX900-2 19"| Tyan S2885ANRF (Rev.A, bios v2.07) | 1x ATI Radeon X800 Pro 256MB | 2x AMD Opteron 248-HE Single-Core CPU | 8x 512mb PC3200 Corsair XMS Series ECC Reg. (CMX512RE-3200LL) | 2x Seagate LVD 36.7Gb U320 SCSI 10,000rpm RAID0 (ST336607LW) | 1x Seagate LVD 36.7Gb U320 SCSI 1
 02/10/2005 08:35 PM
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Hydrad
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I have a Thermaltake Big Water system that I set up about 2 weeks ago. I have it cooling 2 Opteron 250's and it is running in parallel. The temp for the first cpu hovers at about 39C and the second cpu is around 46C. This is with the radiator fan running at the lowest setting.

I dont like the pump and reservoir that came with the Big Water so I am getting ready to swap out the Thermaltake pump for a Reserator. After waiting for about a month it finally came in two days ago. Alas I am going to have to wait until the weekend to install it. It is a big mother, a little under 2 feet tall. But the shape and color are really cool. I plan to have it cool both cpus and an Nvidia Quadro graphics card. I was planning to use a series of Y splitters so everybody gets fresh cool water, but after reading everyones comments, mabe I will run them in series.

I was wondering if it would be too much to run through one cpu then through the existing Terrmaltake big water radiator, then the second cpu then the gpu, then back to the reserator. The radiator is already there, and I still need a small fan for the case so unless the resittance would be too great, it would be nice to take advantage of it.

I will post the temperature results when I get it installed on Saturday.

 02/11/2005 10:24 AM
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derGhostrider
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QUOTE (Hydrad @ Feb 11 2005, 03:35 AM) I have a Thermaltake Big Water system that I set up about 2 weeks ago. I have it cooling 2 Opteron 250's and it is running in parallel. The temp for the first cpu hovers at about 39C and the second cpu is around 46C. This is with the radiator fan running at the lowest setting.

I dont like the pump and reservoir that came with the Big Water so I am getting ready to swap out the Thermaltake pump for a Reserator. After waiting for about a month it finally came in two days ago. Alas I am going to have to wait until the weekend to install it. It is a big mother, a little under 2 feet tall. But the shape and color are really cool. I plan to have it cool both cpus and an Nvidia Quadro graphics card. I was planning to use a series of Y splitters so everybody gets fresh cool water, but after reading everyones comments, mabe I will run them in series.

I was wondering if it would be too much to run through one cpu then through the existing Terrmaltake big water radiator, then the second cpu then the gpu, then back to the reserator. The radiator is already there, and I still need a small fan for the case so unless the resittance would be too great, it would be nice to take advantage of it.

I will post the temperature results when I get it installed on Saturday.
With the Radiator between the CPUs: It's worth a try. But what will be better: The radiator between the CPUs or between the second CPU and the Graphics card?
Maybe you should also try to setup the system at first without the additional radiator from the BigWater system (just don't cut the tube to the correct length you would need) to compare the results with and without it. I have never been a friend of watercooling systems inside computers because of the WATER But somehow I start to focus on this...

-----------------
Off Topic:
Because I was not able to add a reserator to my old system (no mounting holes around the Socket-A) I build a 60mm to 80mm "connector" and added a new 80mm fan to my CPU-heatsink.
The old 60mm fan made a high-pitch noise even if it was already running at about 6V instead of 12V. (At 12V it sounds like a starting Jet - it's a relict from the past where all CPU coolers were still equiped with 60mm fans). Now the system is not as loud as it was before but still far from quiet.
-----------------

-------------------------
Regards,
  Ghostrider

·CPUs - 2*Opteron 246
·Mainboard - Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF
·RAM - 4*Corsair TwinX1024RE-3200LL (4GB, 8*512MB, DDR400, 2-3-2)
·Graphics - HIS IceQ-II X800Pro
·HDD - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD, 74GB, 10k
·RAID - 3Ware 7850, 64bit PCI, 8chn hardware RAID
·RAID-HDDs - 5*WD800JB
·Optical - 1*SlimSize CD-ROM; 1*NEC7441 DVD-RW
·Sound - Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro

 02/12/2005 08:19 PM
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Hydrad
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Well I got it put together and running. It is pretty much completly quiet. I was not able to get a gpu waterblock on the quadro graphics card. I thought that they were just a souped up regular FX card, but no. After taking the fan mechanism and heat sink completly off I realized that ther were no holes for my Nvidia 6800 compatible waterblock. I was hoping to get rid of that fan because it is the only thing that I can hear now, and with everything else quiet, its quite noticeable.

I took your advice and am not connecting the Bigwater radiator to the system. I will see how it goes without it. After running Sandra burn in for 10 iterations with just the cpu and memory tests activated the temperatures were:

CPU 1 46c
CPU 2 39c
System 54c

That is about the same as the Bigwater at the lowest fan setting.

An interesting note though, as I was looking at the Sandra results, I noticed some strange values for the two cpu's. The following values were given in the summary after each iteration of the test:

CPU 1 Voltage = 1.3
CPU 2 Voltage = 2.6

CPU 1 Core Power = 73 watts
CPU 2 Core Power = 291 watts

CPU 1 Temp = 36c
CPU 2 Temp = 42c

CPU 2 was the second in the water cool pipeline so I understand why it is hotter, but why do the two cpu's have different voltages and power? Shouldnt they be the same? Is there a problem with one of my cpus?

Oh wait, I just looked at the Tyan system monitor, and it reports both cpus as 1.5 volts(+/-). Maybe it is a Sandra problem.

Also, the Tyan System Monitor seems to have the CPUs in the wrong order. It always reports CPU2 as being cooler than CPU1. On the board, the first cpu in the coolent line is cpu 0 as is printed on the board, and cpu 1 is the second cpu to be cooled. Sandra seems to follow that order, but they start with 1 instead of 0.
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