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Topic Title: Dual Opteron 285's, TYAN K8WE S2895, Windows XP Pro 32Bit
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Created On: 11/30/2006 02:59 AM
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 12/17/2006 07:03 AM
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XDUDE
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Just for fun, i hooked the "toasted" raptor up to my other computer and tried to run the test software on it before i sent it for an RMA, DRIVE PASSED! no errors, not ONE...SO i know now that the problem is my mainboards on board SATA controller, it has been sent on RMA, should get the new one just after christmas or the new year...

-------------------------
Josh DeHaan
3D Artwork, Inc.
------------------------------------------
 12/17/2006 09:20 AM
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derGhostrider
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Don't believe these harddrive tests!

One example (that I wrote here several times already):
Once I had a harddrive that did not spin up for some weeks. I left it connected to my computer because there was a file that I wanted to recover as soon as it spin up again.
So when I powered the system one day it suddenly spin up! I moved the file that I wanted and thought: "OK, run the diagnostic tool. Must be fun to see the error messages." I rebooted with the floppy of the tool, ran the advanced diagnostic pattern and after quite a long time it finished WITHOUT ANY ERRORS!
OK, I hit the reset to reboot and the harddrive was dead (again) for ever.

I have seen other harddrives in our company that made strange noises, slowed the whole computer down but finished the drive diagnostic tests without errors. Even if these tests took the whole day because of the defects of the drive they were reported as fully functional.
Or another harddrive that has shown strange behaviour finished the test just to produce non-stop clicking noise afterwards.
Another (known bad) harddrive finished the test once without problems. When I tried to run the test a second time it failed after some hours. I rebooted, tried it a third time: the drive failed earlier. Reboot: The test could not access the harddrive anymore.
So if these tests detect an error it's already too late.

-------------------------
Regards,
  Ghostrider

·CPUs - 2*Opteron 246
·Mainboard - Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF
·RAM - 4*Corsair TwinX1024RE-3200LL (4GB, 8*512MB, DDR400, 2-3-2)
·Graphics - HIS IceQ-II X800Pro
·HDD - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD, 74GB, 10k
·RAID - 3Ware 7850, 64bit PCI, 8chn hardware RAID
·RAID-HDDs - 5*WD800JB
·Optical - 1*SlimSize CD-ROM; 1*NEC7441 DVD-RW
·Sound - Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro

 12/17/2006 10:42 AM
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mckennma
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quote:

Originally posted by: XDUDE
Just for fun, i hooked the "toasted" raptor up to my other computer and tried to run the test software on it before i sent it for an RMA, DRIVE PASSED! no errors, not ONE...SO i know now that the problem is my mainboards on board SATA controller, it has been sent on RMA, should get the new one just after christmas or the new year...



Did you do a full test with all sectors? I just ran it on my boss's home computer. It took 5+ hours per drive. Both drives passed. I believe the on-board SATA RAID controller caused his issue. I would test them on the controller they failed on.

-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
 12/19/2006 09:18 AM
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XDUDE
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The drives are doing what you have said, pass one time, fail the next..from what i know both drives are toasted because of the tons of reboots making the raptors do many spin ups and wig out restarts, the restarts i believe are because of my boards bad SATA Controller, i have sent the board on a RMA and am going to send both drives on RMA as well as soon as i get my 5 year coverage on one of my drives to show up with WD, drive is only about 2 years old, i have had it less than a year and the 5 years was up last month, they say but my other drive is ok till 2011..anyways, i believe that i got it all worked out, in my head mind you but yeah, my thoughts are...

1st problem..Crashes and BSOD with a Machine Check Error...Fixed with a BIOS update to v1.04 from v1.03.

2nd problem..Random restarts...Cause I believe from a bad or gone bad SATA Controller...Driver updates had no effect as well as any driver problems.

3rd problem..Hard drives acting up...Again i believe that all the restarts and crashes from 1st problem fried my drives and in return is causing my 2nd problem.

I am replacing the Board and both HDD...Making sure before i do anything that the new board is on v1.04 BIOS, if it is not already should take care of all of my problems as far as the crashing and restarts. I will check back to see if anyone has any other ideas as well as i will let everyone know if the problem is fixed, sense board is on RMA and the HDDs soon will be i will not be getting this computer up to see if that fixed anything till just after the new year.. so with that in mind, merry Christmas and have a happy new year everyone. thanks again and i'll be letting you know and maybe picking up again in a few weeks..

-------------------------
Josh DeHaan
3D Artwork, Inc.
------------------------------------------
 12/19/2006 09:34 AM
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mckennma
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quote:

Originally posted by: XDUDE
The drives are doing what you have said, pass one time, fail the next..from what i know both drives are toasted because of the tons of reboots making the raptors do many spin ups and wig out restarts, the restarts i believe are because of my boards bad SATA Controller, i have sent the board on a RMA and am going to send both drives on RMA as well as soon as i get my 5 year coverage on one of my drives to show up with WD, drive is only about 2 years old, i have had it less than a year and the 5 years was up last month, they say but my other drive is ok till 2011..anyways, i believe that i got it all worked out, in my head mind you but yeah, my thoughts are...

1st problem..Crashes and BSOD with a Machine Check Error...Fixed with a BIOS update to v1.04 from v1.03.

2nd problem..Random restarts...Cause I believe from a bad or gone bad SATA Controller...Driver updates had no effect as well as any driver problems.

3rd problem..Hard drives acting up...Again i believe that all the restarts and crashes from 1st problem fried my drives and in return is causing my 2nd problem.

I am replacing the Board and both HDD...Making sure before i do anything that the new board is on v1.04 BIOS, if it is not already should take care of all of my problems as far as the crashing and restarts. I will check back to see if anyone has any other ideas as well as i will let everyone know if the problem is fixed, sense board is on RMA and the HDDs soon will be i will not be getting this computer up to see if that fixed anything till just after the new year.. so with that in mind, merry Christmas and have a happy new year everyone. thanks again and i'll be letting you know and maybe picking up again in a few weeks..



I have heard of Raptops lasting 6-18 months and dying. Did you leave enough room around the Raptors. You need to treat them like SCSI drives. 1" of clearance is what Seagate recommends for non-hot swap SCSI drives. Hot swap go into special fan cooled chassis.

-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
 12/21/2006 08:11 AM
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XDUDE
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thats about how long i have had them, they are not an inch apart but close to that AND i have a few fans dragging cool air over them, they are covered on cooling i would say..

question..with a RMA to TYAN for a new board, do they send me a fresh new board? the one i had was made back in 2003 or 04 i believe, bought it new just was old...

-------------------------
Josh DeHaan
3D Artwork, Inc.
------------------------------------------
 12/21/2006 09:12 AM
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mckennma
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quote:

Originally posted by: XDUDE
thats about how long i have had them, they are not an inch apart but close to that AND i have a few fans dragging cool air over them, they are covered on cooling i would say..

question..with a RMA to TYAN for a new board, do they send me a fresh new board? the one i had was made back in 2003 or 04 i believe, bought it new just was old...



Some are repaired and some are replaced. Hard to say.

-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
 12/21/2006 12:01 PM
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derGhostrider
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I agree to Mckennma.
I had some luck with my distributor. I got an advanced replacement so that I had to send my board back AFTER recieving a new one. *g* But at that time all boards were the same early revision.

-------------------------
Regards,
  Ghostrider

·CPUs - 2*Opteron 246
·Mainboard - Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF
·RAM - 4*Corsair TwinX1024RE-3200LL (4GB, 8*512MB, DDR400, 2-3-2)
·Graphics - HIS IceQ-II X800Pro
·HDD - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD, 74GB, 10k
·RAID - 3Ware 7850, 64bit PCI, 8chn hardware RAID
·RAID-HDDs - 5*WD800JB
·Optical - 1*SlimSize CD-ROM; 1*NEC7441 DVD-RW
·Sound - Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro

 01/11/2007 03:37 AM
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XDUDE
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Ok....my update:

I got a call from Tyan tech support while they had my board, it was tested and tested for a good day there, it was fine...I had them send it back to me, got it 2 days ago...i got my new raptors in today, hooked them up and fired the computer up, WORKS GREAT! fast smooth and no cut offs with restarts, and i have been installing programs like crazy, so thanks for all of your help, thanks to EVERYONE!

-------------------------
Josh DeHaan
3D Artwork, Inc.
------------------------------------------
 01/11/2007 04:54 AM
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derGhostrider
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Glad to hear that it is up and running now.

Are you still going to buy the SCSI controller & drives?

-------------------------
Regards,
  Ghostrider

·CPUs - 2*Opteron 246
·Mainboard - Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF
·RAM - 4*Corsair TwinX1024RE-3200LL (4GB, 8*512MB, DDR400, 2-3-2)
·Graphics - HIS IceQ-II X800Pro
·HDD - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD, 74GB, 10k
·RAID - 3Ware 7850, 64bit PCI, 8chn hardware RAID
·RAID-HDDs - 5*WD800JB
·Optical - 1*SlimSize CD-ROM; 1*NEC7441 DVD-RW
·Sound - Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro

 01/11/2007 02:11 PM
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XDUDE
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The truth is, i am still trying to decide between SCSI and SATA..i love the specs of the SCSI rids i was looking at but the thing that i cant use my own hard drive racks in my case, well i can but only up to 8 drives, then i have to use the HDD Racks that are made for the controller card...i can put 12 to 19 HDDs in my case, and i want to keep this computer as "ready to go" as i can and not have a bunch of outboard HDDs..

I have also thought about just filling my computer up on a good SATA card that will run like 16 drives at SATAII and then have a good SCSI Card to have a bunch of storage towers outboard...so..i am still looking and thinking...i think i "might" go SATA just for the fact that i fill my rig up if i need it and not have to worry about running out or SATA ports...but SCSI is still something that i might move on as well because it has some nice specs and i cant (not yet anyways) run a 15K rpm on a SATA...so yeah...

dose someone or u know if a GOOD SATA controller card that can do 8 to 12 SATAII HDDs?

-------------------------
Josh DeHaan
3D Artwork, Inc.
------------------------------------------
 01/11/2007 02:29 PM
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mckennma
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quote:

Originally posted by: XDUDE
The truth is, i am still trying to decide between SCSI and SATA..i love the specs of the SCSI rids i was looking at but the thing that i cant use my own hard drive racks in my case, well i can but only up to 8 drives, then i have to use the HDD Racks that are made for the controller card...i can put 12 to 19 HDDs in my case, and i want to keep this computer as "ready to go" as i can and not have a bunch of outboard HDDs..

I have also thought about just filling my computer up on a good SATA card that will run like 16 drives at SATAII and then have a good SCSI Card to have a bunch of storage towers outboard...so..i am still looking and thinking...i think i "might" go SATA just for the fact that i fill my rig up if i need it and not have to worry about running out or SATA ports...but SCSI is still something that i might move on as well because it has some nice specs and i cant (not yet anyways) run a 15K rpm on a SATA...so yeah...

dose someone or u know if a GOOD SATA controller card that can do 8 to 12 SATAII HDDs?



3Ware SATA RAID controllers
NCQ SATA drives
Supermicro CSE-M35T1 SATA RAID hot swap enclosures

-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
 01/14/2007 09:15 AM
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derGhostrider
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3ware - up to 24 SATA-II ports per controller.
http://www.3ware.com/products/serial_ata2-9650.asp

You may also think about using two "smaller" controllers to maximize bandwidth.

-----------
Edit: The S2895 is on the mainboard compatibility list of the 3Ware 9650SE RAID controller.

-------------------------
Regards,
  Ghostrider

·CPUs - 2*Opteron 246
·Mainboard - Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF
·RAM - 4*Corsair TwinX1024RE-3200LL (4GB, 8*512MB, DDR400, 2-3-2)
·Graphics - HIS IceQ-II X800Pro
·HDD - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD, 74GB, 10k
·RAID - 3Ware 7850, 64bit PCI, 8chn hardware RAID
·RAID-HDDs - 5*WD800JB
·Optical - 1*SlimSize CD-ROM; 1*NEC7441 DVD-RW
·Sound - Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro

 01/14/2007 10:45 AM
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mckennma
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quote:

Originally posted by: derGhostrider
3ware - up to 24 SATA-II ports per controller.
http://www.3ware.com/products/serial_ata2-9650.asp

You may also think about using two "smaller" controllers to maximize bandwidth.

-----------
Edit: The S2895 is on the mainboard compatibility list of the 3Ware 9650SE RAID controller.



You can use two RAID controllers to split your RAID arrays on multiple controllers. Or you can get a server grade controller that can handle all your bandwidth.

-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
 01/14/2007 10:51 AM
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derGhostrider
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I meant: Each 3Ware controller can just handle up to 800MB/s (close to this according to the benchmarks from 3ware). IF you want more than that you have to use two of them.

Some kind of RAID-1 - split over two controllers - may give you some extra redundancy because if one CONTROLLER fails the other is still up and running.

It's not just useful if one is "not capable" handling all drives.


Harddrive comparison: Check Tomshardware! They released a brand new harddrive test. For 24/7 use the Seagate ES-series are better than the Hitachi E7k-series... Maybe some kind of interesting to read... But if you want brute performance while using SATA-drives there is no other way than selecting the Raptor.

-------------------------
Regards,
  Ghostrider

·CPUs - 2*Opteron 246
·Mainboard - Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF
·RAM - 4*Corsair TwinX1024RE-3200LL (4GB, 8*512MB, DDR400, 2-3-2)
·Graphics - HIS IceQ-II X800Pro
·HDD - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD, 74GB, 10k
·RAID - 3Ware 7850, 64bit PCI, 8chn hardware RAID
·RAID-HDDs - 5*WD800JB
·Optical - 1*SlimSize CD-ROM; 1*NEC7441 DVD-RW
·Sound - Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro

 01/14/2007 11:28 AM
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mckennma
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quote:

Originally posted by: derGhostrider
I meant: Each 3Ware controller can just handle up to 800MB/s (close to this according to the benchmarks from 3ware). IF you want more than that you have to use two of them.

Some kind of RAID-1 - split over two controllers - may give you some extra redundancy because if one CONTROLLER fails the other is still up and running.

It's not just useful if one is "not capable" handling all drives.
Harddrive comparison: Check Tomshardware! They released a brand new harddrive test. For 24/7 use the Seagate ES-series are better than the Hitachi E7k-series... Maybe some kind of interesting to read... But if you want brute performance while using SATA-drives there is no other way than selecting the Raptor.



Most SATA RAID drives are 60MB/s-80MB/s sustained. You would need 10-12 drives to max out a 800 MB/s channel. My 15x 10K U320 SCSI drives are not maxing my 320-2X controller in a PCI-X slot. You will need a better power supply to handle drives. Most pull around 1A on each 5V and 12V rail.

You have to make sure multiple controllers can do RAID 1 duplexing. Duplexing is RAID on across mutliple controllers. Not many can do it.

If you are going to want drive performance, get 10K SCSI and a SCSI RAID controller with a cache. LSI 320-2e is a PCI-e card.

Tom Hardware is not a great source for information. I have seen more misinformation and poor testing methods from Tom's over the last 5 years. I used to read them and stopped because they reported benchmark figures that no one could repeat.

-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
 01/15/2007 06:45 AM
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derGhostrider
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@XDUDE:
If you don't have a PCIexpress port available you may take a look at this one:
http://www.3ware.com/products/serial_ata2-9000.asp

A little bis slower, no RAID-6 but still a good piece of hardware.

-------------------------
Regards,
  Ghostrider

·CPUs - 2*Opteron 246
·Mainboard - Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF
·RAM - 4*Corsair TwinX1024RE-3200LL (4GB, 8*512MB, DDR400, 2-3-2)
·Graphics - HIS IceQ-II X800Pro
·HDD - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD, 74GB, 10k
·RAID - 3Ware 7850, 64bit PCI, 8chn hardware RAID
·RAID-HDDs - 5*WD800JB
·Optical - 1*SlimSize CD-ROM; 1*NEC7441 DVD-RW
·Sound - Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro

 01/15/2007 02:51 PM
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XDUDE
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yeah, i found the PCI-X ones too...now, because they are slower can i do like 2 - 8 port card or like a 12 port on the 133MHz and a 4 port on the 100MHz and get "OK" speeds that way?

-------------------------
Josh DeHaan
3D Artwork, Inc.
------------------------------------------
 01/15/2007 03:26 PM
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derGhostrider
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"OK" speeds???

The "low" performance means:
up to 480MB/s reads on RAID-5 and up to 333MB/s writes on RAID-5 with WD Raptors.
see: http://www.3ware.com/products/benchmarks_sata2.asp

I'd suggest to spread your load symmetrically. Buy two 8-port controllers 9550SX-8LP. 100MHz PCI-X is more than fast enough to deliver the bandwidth that one of these controllers can deliver.

-------------------------
Regards,
  Ghostrider

·CPUs - 2*Opteron 246
·Mainboard - Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF
·RAM - 4*Corsair TwinX1024RE-3200LL (4GB, 8*512MB, DDR400, 2-3-2)
·Graphics - HIS IceQ-II X800Pro
·HDD - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD, 74GB, 10k
·RAID - 3Ware 7850, 64bit PCI, 8chn hardware RAID
·RAID-HDDs - 5*WD800JB
·Optical - 1*SlimSize CD-ROM; 1*NEC7441 DVD-RW
·Sound - Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro

 01/15/2007 05:17 PM
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mckennma
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quote:

Originally posted by: derGhostrider
"OK" speeds???

The "low" performance means:
up to 480MB/s reads on RAID-5 and up to 333MB/s writes on RAID-5 with WD Raptors.
see: http://www.3ware.com/products/benchmarks_sata2.asp

I'd suggest to spread your load symmetrically. Buy two 8-port controllers 9550SX-8LP. 100MHz PCI-X is more than fast enough to deliver the bandwidth that one of these controllers can deliver.



333 MB/s on RAID 5 writes? Which IOP are they using or is it done by CPU?

-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
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