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Topic Title: Dual Opteron 285's, TYAN K8WE S2895, Windows XP Pro 32Bit
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Created On: 11/30/2006 02:59 AM
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 01/17/2007 06:54 PM
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derGhostrider
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They have their own IOP. The newest Controllers can perform even better with RAID-6! Specifications say that they can calculate the parity data in parallel.

-------------------------
Regards,
  Ghostrider

·CPUs - 2*Opteron 246
·Mainboard - Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF
·RAM - 4*Corsair TwinX1024RE-3200LL (4GB, 8*512MB, DDR400, 2-3-2)
·Graphics - HIS IceQ-II X800Pro
·HDD - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD, 74GB, 10k
·RAID - 3Ware 7850, 64bit PCI, 8chn hardware RAID
·RAID-HDDs - 5*WD800JB
·Optical - 1*SlimSize CD-ROM; 1*NEC7441 DVD-RW
·Sound - Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro

 01/17/2007 08:25 PM
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mckennma
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quote:

Originally posted by: derGhostrider
They have their own IOP. The newest Controllers can perform even better with RAID-6! Specifications say that they can calculate the parity data in parallel.



Which IOP? I thought about 8 Raptor SATA drives on a 3Ware highend RAID controller. Any with its own 512MB cache?

-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
 01/20/2007 10:04 AM
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derGhostrider
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3ware developed the "storswitch" architecture. In difference to others like LSI or ARECA they do not buy their IOPs from Intel. Now they (AMCC) are at the 8th generation of the IOP.

For the 512MB Cache you will need to buy the 24-port version. Pretty expensive... 4port to 16 port do "only" have 256MB onboard.

I recommend that you get the optional BBU as well.

-------------------------
Regards,
  Ghostrider

·CPUs - 2*Opteron 246
·Mainboard - Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF
·RAM - 4*Corsair TwinX1024RE-3200LL (4GB, 8*512MB, DDR400, 2-3-2)
·Graphics - HIS IceQ-II X800Pro
·HDD - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD, 74GB, 10k
·RAID - 3Ware 7850, 64bit PCI, 8chn hardware RAID
·RAID-HDDs - 5*WD800JB
·Optical - 1*SlimSize CD-ROM; 1*NEC7441 DVD-RW
·Sound - Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro

 01/26/2007 09:31 PM
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XDUDE
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Off subject question but what is the hight limit for chipset coolers that are going to be under video cards and other PCI-X Cards? my 3 chips on my board with just the stock heat sinks are getting a lil hot.....

-------------------------
Josh DeHaan
3D Artwork, Inc.
------------------------------------------
 01/27/2007 05:56 AM
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derGhostrider
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Before you try to replace them there is another way you can try to solve the problem: Increase the airflow. Intake fans at the front, exhaust fans at the back. If you have a fairly good airflow the temperature should be OK.
What does the Tyan System Monitor (TSM) read out as chipset temperature? If it is in the 40's it is OK.

-------------------------
Regards,
  Ghostrider

·CPUs - 2*Opteron 246
·Mainboard - Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF
·RAM - 4*Corsair TwinX1024RE-3200LL (4GB, 8*512MB, DDR400, 2-3-2)
·Graphics - HIS IceQ-II X800Pro
·HDD - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD, 74GB, 10k
·RAID - 3Ware 7850, 64bit PCI, 8chn hardware RAID
·RAID-HDDs - 5*WD800JB
·Optical - 1*SlimSize CD-ROM; 1*NEC7441 DVD-RW
·Sound - Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro

 01/28/2007 05:51 AM
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XDUDE
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i am not seeing any temp read outs for my chipsets....where do i find the read out for the chipsets? /sleep.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="-_-" border="0" alt="sleep.gif" />

all i have is CPU temps about 34c each and System temp, about 25c...is system temp chipsets?

-------------------------
Josh DeHaan
3D Artwork, Inc.
------------------------------------------
 01/28/2007 09:45 AM
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mckennma
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quote:

Originally posted by: XDUDE
i am not seeing any temp read outs for my chipsets....where do i find the read out for the chipsets? /sleep.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="-_-" border="0" alt="sleep.gif" />

all i have is CPU temps about 34c each and System temp, about 25c...is system temp chipsets?



Tyan boards have a health monitor section and TSM software. You only get CPUs, RAM and system temperatures. The TSM shows you a diagram on where the sensors are located. As long as your have decent chassis fans, don't worry about chipset temperatures. Tyan heatsinks on chipsets are fine. I asked Tyan about it.

-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
 02/02/2007 08:18 PM
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XDUDE
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They are running around 35 when i am not doing anything and pushing 40+ c when i am working on it...i am adding a 12cm fan to the front of the case in a HDD rack, see if that helps....

-------------------------
Josh DeHaan
3D Artwork, Inc.
------------------------------------------
 02/02/2007 08:32 PM
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mckennma
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quote:

Originally posted by: XDUDE
They are running around 35 when i am not doing anything and pushing 40+ c when i am working on it...i am adding a 12cm fan to the front of the case in a HDD rack, see if that helps....



I only use 92mm fans. Add one inbound and outbound. You need to remove the exhaust air from the chassis.

-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
 02/03/2007 01:35 AM
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XDUDE
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I have only one 12cm fan on the back pulling air out but my case is a free flow case
My Case:

HDD Rack w/ 12cm Fan:


adding a 12cm fan on the front should do it, if just getting air in and out well do the trick that is..

-------------------------
Josh DeHaan
3D Artwork, Inc.
------------------------------------------
 02/05/2007 11:48 AM
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mckennma
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If you don't add hard drives in the bays it might add sufficient cooling. I would open the front grill to allow more air flow in.

-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
 02/07/2007 07:09 PM
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XDUDE
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Well i got a gift the last 2 days...

MORE SUDDEN RESTARTS!!!!!!!!! it ran PERFECT, fast and clean for weeks! now it seems like the problem MIGHT be back...i was able to try Vista Ultimate a few weeks ago and it installed and ran PERFECT with no errors, could this just be the Windows XP SUCKS!???

i'll post more info later about the problem if it stays but please give any thought or ideas to this, i am about done with this system....

-------------------------
Josh DeHaan
3D Artwork, Inc.
------------------------------------------
 02/07/2007 10:50 PM
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mckennma
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quote:

Originally posted by: XDUDE
Well i got a gift the last 2 days...

MORE SUDDEN RESTARTS!!!!!!!!! it ran PERFECT, fast and clean for weeks! now it seems like the problem MIGHT be back...i was able to try Vista Ultimate a few weeks ago and it installed and ran PERFECT with no errors, could this just be the Windows XP SUCKS!???

i'll post more info later about the problem if it stays but please give any thought or ideas to this, i am about done with this system....



I had to apply the AGP tunnel patch to fix XP Pro SP2 issues. I had it before Tyan because I pestered AMD for the fix and they released the beta to me for testing.

I would check your power supply voltages with a multimeter and check for voltage drops on 12V rail. Clean out all the fans and HSF, especially on video card. Clear your CMOS and reset it to default. I have seen a Tyan CMOS get corrupted and cause all sorts of problems. My floppy would stop working until I cleared it. Write down what you were doing when it crashed. See what hardware is running. Restarts can be temperature or video card related. It could even be a drop in input voltage and current loads from other components sharing with your computer power supply. I am going to 35A dedicated circuit for my workstation.

-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
 02/08/2007 03:23 PM
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XDUDE
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+5v = 30A | +3.3v = 28A | +12v(1) = 14A | +12v(2) = 23A | +12v(3) = 15A | +5VSB = 2.5A

There is the specs off the PSU.... everything in my case is still new and not full of dirt so i am pretty sure it is not a temp problem...I am looking for the "AGP tunnel patch to fix XP Pro SP2" right now because i am not sure i have it and i will see what else i can find out that might help get this fixed..I did have to do a CMOS reset because once it would do nothing on power up, not even POST so i reset the CMOS and then it booted.. i even took the new ram i got out and see if that was the problem...one time it ALWAYS crashes and restarts is when i am updating my iPod, it will do a few hundred songs then just die and leave the 3000+ songs undone...i have reinstalled iTunes and the drivers for my iPod and same, i know it is nothing to do with that and it has also just done it when i am doing nothing or just on the web, what makes me mad is that it is stable most of the time so i am at ease with doing things on it but then, when it does crash it is at a REALLY bad time...like it crashed during at disk defrag and i lost some project files that were in the RAM waiting for be sent back to the hard drive...

so yeah, this is getting old.. i am going to be getting a new ful copy of Vista Ultimate in a few days to see if that well help also, the beta's of vista i ran were a dream, not one error on install or during running...

-------------------------
Josh DeHaan
3D Artwork, Inc.
------------------------------------------
 02/08/2007 04:02 PM
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mckennma
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quote:

Originally posted by: XDUDE
+5v = 30A | +3.3v = 28A | +12v(1) = 14A | +12v(2) = 23A | +12v(3) = 15A | +5VSB = 2.5A

There is the specs off the PSU.... everything in my case is still new and not full of dirt so i am pretty sure it is not a temp problem...I am looking for the "AGP tunnel patch to fix XP Pro SP2" right now because i am not sure i have it and i will see what else i can find out that might help get this fixed..I did have to do a CMOS reset because once it would do nothing on power up, not even POST so i reset the CMOS and then it booted.. i even took the new ram i got out and see if that was the problem...one time it ALWAYS crashes and restarts is when i am updating my iPod, it will do a few hundred songs then just die and leave the 3000+ songs undone...i have reinstalled iTunes and the drivers for my iPod and same, i know it is nothing to do with that and it has also just done it when i am doing nothing or just on the web, what makes me mad is that it is stable most of the time so i am at ease with doing things on it but then, when it does crash it is at a REALLY bad time...like it crashed during at disk defrag and i lost some project files that were in the RAM waiting for be sent back to the hard drive...

so yeah, this is getting old.. i am going to be getting a new ful copy of Vista Ultimate in a few days to see if that well help also, the beta's of vista i ran were a dream, not one error on install or during running...



The Thermaltake is not listed on Tyan's list. I like them for HSF. Power supplies for Tyan boards would not be my choice. The 14A and 15A rails are small. Tyan boards like single rail power supplies. Which rail does your video and which the CPUs? 15A @ 12V for your CPUs and 18A @ 12V for your video card. I went with a PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750W because of its 60A @ 12V rail. I am installing a 35A circuit to power it. You could install a lowend video card and see if your power supply is the problem. If your 285s are feed from 14A rail, it is not enough but you would notice it on POST. Install a lessor video card and unplug your CD/DVD devices and non-critical hardware to test your power supply. Reduce the load and see if your iPod files work. Check event viewer for errors.

The AGP tunnel problems where with games playing. Your video card would not load properly. The AMD Tunnel patch was for K8W and AMD chipset. I don't believe the Nvidia chipset on the K8WE has the issue.

-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
 02/08/2007 05:52 PM
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XDUDE
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I turned off the auto restart after system crash and got this,



so from reading that, i should just need to reinstall my SATA drivers...i think...


EDIT: Also i just saw that the new v1.05 Bios are out, so i am going to flash them as well...

-------------------------
Josh DeHaan
3D Artwork, Inc.
------------------------------------------
 02/08/2007 07:04 PM
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derGhostrider
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The AGP-tunnel-fix was only for the Thunder K8W S2885. DON'T install it.

"Driver IRQL not less or equal" are errors that are hard to find. :-(

@Mckennma:
Tyan boards do not have to use single rail PSUs. From my point of view a split plane design is the better choice because this fits to the SSI specifications that clearly say how the power has to be split up. The mainboards from Tyan follow the SSI specifications so it can't be a problem to have a PSU that follows these specifications as well.

IF the PSU follows the specifications each CPU has it's own 12V rail. So two 12V rails with ~14A should be connected to the CPUs and 14A for each CPU is more than enough.

Don't understand me wrong. Your statement to prefer a PSU with a single but strong 12V rail is absolutely correct if the PSU with split 12V rails is not properly designed so that just one of the weak 12V lines is connected to both CPUs.

My PSU has four 12V lines. 12V1 & 12V2 for the CPUs, two additional lines for other stuff. Benefit of a good split 12V rails design: If one device fails (e.g. a harddrive) it's not so easy to ruin everything in the system - just everything on the same rail.

------------------------------
Edit:
XDUDE: It looks like a driver problem. Right now I'd not search for a graphics related problem. Try to find updated drivers for the NVidia Chipset and the NVidia SATA controller.

-------------------------
Regards,
  Ghostrider

·CPUs - 2*Opteron 246
·Mainboard - Tyan Thunder K8W S2885ANRF
·RAM - 4*Corsair TwinX1024RE-3200LL (4GB, 8*512MB, DDR400, 2-3-2)
·Graphics - HIS IceQ-II X800Pro
·HDD - Western Digital Raptor WD740GD, 74GB, 10k
·RAID - 3Ware 7850, 64bit PCI, 8chn hardware RAID
·RAID-HDDs - 5*WD800JB
·Optical - 1*SlimSize CD-ROM; 1*NEC7441 DVD-RW
·Sound - Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro

 02/08/2007 09:10 PM
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mckennma
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quote:

Originally posted by: derGhostrider
The AGP-tunnel-fix was only for the Thunder K8W S2885. DON'T install it.

"Driver IRQL not less or equal" are errors that are hard to find. :-(

@Mckennma:
Tyan boards do not have to use single rail PSUs. From my point of view a split plane design is the better choice because this fits to the SSI specifications that clearly say how the power has to be split up. The mainboards from Tyan follow the SSI specifications so it can't be a problem to have a PSU that follows these specifications as well.

IF the PSU follows the specifications each CPU has it's own 12V rail. So two 12V rails with ~14A should be connected to the CPUs and 14A for each CPU is more than enough.

Don't understand me wrong. Your statement to prefer a PSU with a single but strong 12V rail is absolutely correct if the PSU with split 12V rails is not properly designed so that just one of the weak 12V lines is connected to both CPUs.

My PSU has four 12V lines. 12V1 & 12V2 for the CPUs, two additional lines for other stuff. Benefit of a good split 12V rails design: If one device fails (e.g. a harddrive) it's not so easy to ruin everything in the system - just everything on the same rail.

------------------------------
Edit:
XDUDE: It looks like a driver problem. Right now I'd not search for a graphics related problem. Try to find updated drivers for the NVidia Chipset and the NVidia SATA controller.



Many mulit-rail power supplies are too weak for a Tyan board. This is why Tyan's list is so small. You need a four rail 12V power supply for the K8WE. Three rail is too weak. Especially with dual 285s and a decent video card. You are better off with a single rail solution to make sure you are not short on current load.

I did mention the AGP Tunnel patch was a AMD and K8W issue.

NVATABUS.SYS is a incorrect Nvidia patch installed. Uninstall the Nvidia chipset patches and reapply the proper ones for the board. XP Pro x64 has them already native, according to Tyan and you don't need to apply anything.

-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
 02/09/2007 04:32 PM
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Hydrad
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I have just read through this topic so my response is a bit late, but I had the same problem of crashing with almost the same exact setup. The system was always crashing with the same message that you were getting. I assumed it was a hardware problem so I started replacing items in the order of what I thought was the most likely suspect.

This sounds like a memory problem so:

1. I replaced the memory - no luck the crashes continued

then I figured it must be the cpu's

2. I replaced the cpu's - no luck the crashes continued

so I finally throught ok, now I know its the motherboard

3. I replaced the motherboard - no luck the crashes continued

4. so then I took all of the cards out of the system except the graphics card - no luck the crashes continued

5. so ok, finally, I have it nailed down. It must be the graphics card, so I replaced the graphics card - no luck the crashes contiued

I was stumped, what was left. Then I looked at my hard drives. 2 brand new Raptors in RAID 0. It couldnt be! In 20 years I have only had 2 hard drive crashes and they never expressed themselves like this. But I have run out of things to swap out. So I replaced the Raptors and bang the crashes stopped.

I alternately put each raptor back into the box one at a time and isolated the bad hard drive. I sent it back for a replacement and everything has worked fine for the past year.

Hardware failures are the most frustating thing to fix. The smallest thing can have effects that are far reaching. I believe that the hard drive problem was some sort of electrical failure in the hard drive circutry that randomly fritzed the system. Several years ago I had a similar problem that was casued by a malfunctioning floppy disk drive that was not even being used by the system, but some small electrical maifunction sent spurious signals into the motherboard causing the system to lock up. Let me tell you the floppy disk is not the first place you look in trying to resolve a system crash. Especially if you arent even using the floppy disk on the machine.

Waiting for things to go back and forth in the mail for RMA's streched this process out to about 1 month. I was ready to drop the whole dam thing off the closest bridge.
 02/09/2007 04:37 PM
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mckennma
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A flaky floppy can cause problems. Any short can cause issues. A bad cap can cause current drain or spikes. Start with high quality components that are matched. This is why at work I use Compaq Proliants. They are not fast but very reliable.

-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
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