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Topic Title: 144 idle temp
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Created On: 02/06/2007 10:05 PM
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 02/06/2007 10:05 PM
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alfatz
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Very little hardware knowledge, so be kind.

I have a Sun Ultra 20, with the semi-original 144 in it. About 1.5 years old. When I first took possession, the fan screamed, temps in the high 50/60 range at idle. Sun replaced the processor, all was fine. Idle temps much lower (sorry I can't remember how low - but the machine became silent...)

The rest of the machine is pretty basic, a gig of ram, a nvidia 280 graphics card, and a seagate 7200.9 250g drive (though I have tried a 7200.8 80g and a 7200.10 250g as well)

This weekend I flashed the bios (to make way for a shiny new 185), and now the processor is showing 55+ at idle in the BIOS. I run Solaris - which means no temp readings from the OS on x64 architectures. And the fan is blowing harder again.

Sun just replaced the motherboard, as that was the 'best guess' as to the source of the problem.
After replacement, I checked the temps - with an older bios on the board (original maybe?) - and was at 52+. Flashed the bios, loaded optimized defaults (per Sun), and same thing...

My question is:

What should the idle temp on the 144 (and 185 for that matter) be? I am suspecting it really should be in the 30 range, no?

Does anyone have any advice as to my next move? I am tempted to toss the 185 in the mix, but I don't want to possibly screw it up if something else is off in the system. Is there any linux distro that may allow for temp readings? Should I reseat the hsf (the Sun tech did this twice...)

Thanks for any help offered.
 02/06/2007 11:21 PM
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CharlieIsComing
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your case. does it have good ventilation? sounds like it might be case. maybe you didn't get the thermalpaste on good?...is it running good other than the temps?

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 02/06/2007 11:48 PM
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alfatz
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Case is stock Sun box - so I am assuming they are in the know as far as ventilation goes. I will try and redo the thermal paste tomorrow. The reason I don't think it's that is because it *just* happened after updating the bios. Been running for 130 days prior to that without any problems...

Is 50+ at idle as crazy as I think it is?
 02/07/2007 09:17 AM
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mckennma
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quote:

Originally posted by: alfatz
Case is stock Sun box - so I am assuming they are in the know as far as ventilation goes. I will try and redo the thermal paste tomorrow. The reason I don't think it's that is because it *just* happened after updating the bios. Been running for 130 days prior to that without any problems...

Is 50+ at idle as crazy as I think it is?



A BIOS rev upgrade fixed temperature sensor issues on my K8WE. Maybe it broke yours. Did you try going back a rev and calling them about it. I would not install the 185 until you talk to them about the temperature issue.

My K8W has temperatures at 25C-33C. If you are in a 1U chassis, did you use the HE Opterons?

-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
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http://69.14.190.80
 02/07/2007 10:25 AM
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alfatz
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Thanks mckennma,

It's a workstation, so there is lots of room in there. I will hold off on the new processor install.

I haven't rolled back to an earlier bios yet - I plan on doing that today. I am also going to blow out the case with some compressed air and re-seat the fan. Everything seems to be spinning fine, and doesn't seem dirty, but I am running short of ideas.

The new mother board, while I forgot to check, most likely didn't have the most recent bios on it, so I am really at a loss, since when installed it ran in the 50's as well. These are bios releases from Sun, so there are some slight changes - what those are I don't know. I'd be tempted to flash with tyan ones, but the board itself has been tweaked by Sun, and I can't imagine they'd be happy I went completely off course...

Would it be recommended to just remove what little extra there is and start from scratch? (RAM and video card - it has an onboard graphics chip) Could another component be causeing this? Also the 'system' temp is around 30. Is it possible that something, somehow, changed the cooling of the system?
 02/07/2007 10:30 AM
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mckennma
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quote:

Originally posted by: alfatz
Thanks mckennma,

It's a workstation, so there is lots of room in there. I will hold off on the new processor install.

I haven't rolled back to an earlier bios yet - I plan on doing that today. I am also going to blow out the case with some compressed air and re-seat the fan. Everything seems to be spinning fine, and doesn't seem dirty, but I am running short of ideas.

The new mother board, while I forgot to check, most likely didn't have the most recent bios on it, so I am really at a loss, since when installed it ran in the 50's as well. These are bios releases from Sun, so there are some slight changes - what those are I don't know. I'd be tempted to flash with tyan ones, but the board itself has been tweaked by Sun, and I can't imagine they'd be happy I went completely off course...

Would it be recommended to just remove what little extra there is and start from scratch? (RAM and video card - it has an onboard graphics chip) Could another component be causeing this? Also the 'system' temp is around 30. Is it possible that something, somehow, changed the cooling of the system?



Use SUN OEM Bios rev. You could cause unforseen issues with Tyan BIOS. Call SUN. Did you clear the CMOS after flashing it? It might fix your issue. What is the room temperature? Cleaning the HSF and chassis might help. From cold start does it go up to 50C immediately? Did you properly apply thermal paste to the chip and check the HSF is seated properly?

-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
 02/07/2007 10:49 AM
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alfatz
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quote:

Originally posted by: mckennma
Use SUN OEM Bios rev. You could cause unforseen issues with Tyan BIOS. Call SUN. Did you clear the CMOS after flashing it? It might fix your issue. What is the room temperature? Cleaning the HSF and chassis might help. From cold start does it go up to 50C immediately? Did you properly apply thermal paste to the chip and check the HSF is seated properly?



I don't think I'm brave enough not to I didn't clear the CMOS, basically just:
1. flashed bios from cd
2. reboot to bios - selected 'load optimized defaults' (per Sun docs AND Sun technical rep)

How do you clear the CMOS? I recall reading something in the Sun Docs about it. No need for an elaborate answer, I'll have Sun walk me through.

The temp is 50 on cold start-up. Bad sensor seems unlikely as we are on mobo #2 - with same results.

The thermal paste is another issue. The tech who replaced the mobo yesterday simply reattached without cleaning off the paste. He then added some more to see if anything changed. No change. I sort of question his method (since he didn't really take the time to do it like I would have), but then again he works on multi-million dollar systems all day long - so he has to know what he's doing, right?

Thanks again for your help.
 02/07/2007 11:23 AM
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CharlieIsComing
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well that could be an issue old thermal paste looses some effectiveness. if he added more onto is it going over the side of the proc? if you have excess on the board that is a major issue. other than that flash to something previous.
clean your proc off then reapply the paste like it's supposed to be done as well. that might help.

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 02/07/2007 11:29 AM
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mckennma
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quote:

Originally posted by: alfatz
I don't think I'm brave enough not to I didn't clear the CMOS, basically just:
1. flashed bios from cd
2. reboot to bios - selected 'load optimized defaults' (per Sun docs AND Sun technical rep)

How do you clear the CMOS? I recall reading something in the Sun Docs about it. No need for an elaborate answer, I'll have Sun walk me through.

The temp is 50 on cold start-up. Bad sensor seems unlikely as we are on mobo #2 - with same results.

The thermal paste is another issue. The tech who replaced the mobo yesterday simply reattached without cleaning off the paste. He then added some more to see if anything changed. No change. I sort of question his method (since he didn't really take the time to do it like I would have), but then again he works on multi-million dollar systems all day long - so he has to know what he's doing, right?

Thanks again for your help.



I usually add new paste and respread it. If too dried out, I will wipe it off and reapply. Should be a jumper on the board to reset CMOS. Unplug the computer to do it.

-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
 02/07/2007 11:50 AM
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alfatz
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Thanks

As soon as I get a chance to head out today - I'll buy some Arctic Silver 5. It is unfortunately -15 Farenheit (wind chill) outside, so I am working up the energy to make the trek.

When I clear the cmos, does that mean I need to reflash the bios?
 02/07/2007 11:54 AM
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mckennma
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quote:

Originally posted by: alfatz
Thanks

As soon as I get a chance to head out today - I'll buy some Arctic Silver 5. It is unfortunately -15 Farenheit (wind chill) outside, so I am working up the energy to make the trek.

When I clear the cmos, does that mean I need to reflash the bios?



No. It just clears everything out. You will have to reset date, time, etc. BIOS rev stays the same. It just gets rid of any problems in the CMOS. -5F wind chill in Michigan. AS5 is not worth the aggrevation. I just use normal thermal paste.

-------------------------
Tyan Thunder K8WE
Dual AMD 280 Opterons
8GB NUMA enabled DDR333 2.5-3-3-7 RAM
PCI-X SCSI RAID
http://69.14.190.80
 02/07/2007 06:50 PM
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XDUDE
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Is your PSU good? if your power supply is sending bad power it could be after a while toasting your CPU or MB or both....Also u should just put your finger on the heat sink before u start the rig up...if u can feel it get hot then u know that the reading are good, but if it still says high temps and you cant tell it getting that hot then u know the temps are wrong....

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 02/10/2007 04:45 PM
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alfatz
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Just to close this out:

I removed the heat sink, blew out quite a bit of dust from the cooling fins, and cleaned/reattached the fan to the cpu with the *right* amount of thermal paste (unlike the Sun tech).

Now fan is back to normal, and temps at start-up are around 47 degrees C. As this is well within my comfort level for noise and temp I am happy enough to say problem solved. Good thing I have that Sun Service contract /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="<_<" border="0" alt="dry.gif" />

Thanks again to those who helped.
 02/19/2007 11:41 AM
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proximo
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I also have an Ultra 20 that I recently upgraded with an Opteron 185 and have seen similar high idle temps (58-60C). I've played around with this a bunch and the only way I was able to get temps to drop significantly was by enabling Cool n' Quiet in the BIOS and loading the appropriate OS driver to take advantage of it. With CnQ enabled, I'm now seeing idle temps of 38C with full load temps (using Prime95) around 60-63C.

I'm pretty sure that the supplied HSF is sized assuming that CnQ is going to be used. To get temps down without using CnQ, I think an aftermarket HSF, like the Zalman 9500, and some Arctic Silver 5 may be in order.

You can download the CnQ (PowerNow! driver for Linux and Windows at

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Proce...chni...71_9033,00.html
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