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Topic Title: Strange MPX "bugs"
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Created On: 10/06/2003 11:30 PM
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 10/06/2003 11:30 PM
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Scott
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I have some odd issues with my video from a cold boot into windows. The screen resolution frequently starts at 60 hz instead of 100 hz. Also, infrequently the screen "jitters" randomly as I am using the computer.

In the past I also had it go back to 640x480 from 1024x768 on boot, but it seems drivers or whatever bios setting I modified fixed that.


OS windows 2000 SP4
ATI radeon 8500LE, 64mb ram
K7D-master-L board
520W TTGI powersupply
512mb of PC2100 registered kingston DDR ram
using onboard sound and network
ATI tv wonder VE installed
1x cdrw drive on channel 2 and 1x 7200rpm drive (windows swap file)
1x 7200 rpm drive on channel 1 for OS


The computer has been stable, but the video issues are bugging me.



Just a few other general questions:
Would any of the AMD people like to comment on some of the strange MPX chipset errata?

like:
The supposed 25mb/sec limit on the 32-bit pci slots.
or
High network traffic hard-lock if no PS/2 mouse is connected? (experenced this), was perplexed till I saw some suggest having a ps2 mouse connected.

 10/07/2003 03:29 AM
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amdscooter
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Hmmm, personally I have never experienced either of the phenomina. I have run many ATI cards on several MPX platforms from the Radeon AIW to the 9700 Pro on Tyan, Gigabyte and Asus MPX MOBO's. I successfully OC'd most of them too. Have you tried different driver sets/video cards??

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 10/07/2003 06:40 AM
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Dave Graham
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the only problems i encountered with my MPX boards (oh, i have an Asus A7M266-D for sale with an 1800+ MP and 256mb of DDR2100 ECC Registered) were related to signaling issues with the 66mhz PCI slots. This actually was a board design problem (had an EE at Qlogic Corp. take a look at it with a scope), not a chipset problem.

check with other MSI users and see if they experience the same thing...If not, a board swap would not be out of line.

cheers,

dave

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 10/07/2003 02:01 PM
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kb9skw.net
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I just built my dully Duron system a few days ago and notice the same thing. Everytime I reboot my frequency goes back to 60Hz. Needless to say this it quite annoying. Specs are in the sig.

Clues?

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 10/07/2003 02:03 PM
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Dave Graham
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QUOTE (kb9skw.net @ Oct 7 2003, 10:01 AM) I just built my dully Duron system a few days ago and notice the same thing. Everytime I reboot my frequency goes back to 60Hz. Needless to say this it quite annoying. Specs are in the sig.

Clues?
could be the AGP implementation of the MPX chipset....

cheers,

dave

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 10/07/2003 04:18 PM
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Richard H
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The supposed 25mb/sec limit on the 32-bit pci slots

You really expect AMD to comment on this?? It is well known that most if not all of the released MPX chipsets have this bug. Come on they released the MPX rev 1 with broken usb ports, do you think they really care? Even there new chipsets have usb problems.

The MPX chipset is so bugy I suspect that is why it never got ramped up to 333 fsb.

I find it funny that they get away with it. If it was a car etc they would have to recall them and fix the problem free of charge. People are so used to buggy motherboards/chipset/cpu's that we put up with it.

Just my two cents.
 10/07/2003 05:23 PM
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Brian
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isn't the 60hz limitation the fault of M$?
download refresh fix to solve the problem

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 10/08/2003 11:56 AM
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Scott
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QUOTE (Brian @ Oct 7 2003, 01:23 PM) isn't the 60hz limitation the fault of M$?
download refresh fix to solve the problem
I looked around the microsoft site a bit, but didn't see anything related to that. Do you know the link to that patch?
 10/08/2003 01:33 PM
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amdscooter
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There is no oficial patch. There are however many third party applications such as Powerstrip, refreshlock and rage3dtweak to name a few that have a refresh lock feature. Take a look around and find one that suits your needs.

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 10/08/2003 03:42 PM
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Richard H
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None of those have anything to do with the pci slot problems. Those are for videocard refresh problems not the pci bus problem. Fixes the AGP problem only.
 10/08/2003 04:58 PM
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Scott
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QUOTE (Richard H @ Oct 8 2003, 11:42 AM) None of those have anything to do with the pci slot problems. Those are for videocard refresh problems not the pci bus problem. Fixes the AGP problem only.


The thread is titled "MPX bugs" so that includes pci issues as well as anything else

I was speculating that the video refresh issue was due to something with ati cards and mpx chipset because I have seen others have this issue before on the 2cpu.com forums.

 10/08/2003 07:13 PM
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Java
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First, I am running a gigabyte board with MPX chipset and I am not have any problems with monitor refresh rates. I have ran both ATi cards (9000) series and currently a GeForce FX without any display problems. Therefore, I think it is unlikely that any refresh rate problem is related to the MPX chipset. I would suspect it may be a driver issue, but that is just a guess. Have you contacted ATi?

Richard H.

QUOTE I find it funny that they get away with it. If it was a car etc they would have to recall them and fix the problem free of charge. People are so used to buggy motherboards/chipset/cpu's that we put up with it.


No offence, but you cannot apply theories about how the auto industry works with how the electronics industry works. Simply put, every piece of silicon has unexpected behaviors. These are called errata. Whether you are talking about AMD, Intel, LSI Logic, Phillips, Via, TI, Motorola, IBM, etc., they all have these unexpected behaviors. This does not mean they are broke, they just don't perform as expected. Sometimes, these errata are more problematic than others, but that's life in the silicon manufacturing world.

QUOTE Come on they released the MPX rev 1 with broken usb ports, do you think they really care? Even there new chipsets have usb problems.


Off course they would care. If not, they would never have spun another revision of the chipset. If you expect a perfectly working piece of silicon, then you would be waiting forever. How many people would be upset if manufactures kept waiting to release something until every problem was resolved? Sometimes, there comes a point when you just have decide to ship the product and make plans for a work around if everything is not fully functional and make some people happy and generate revenue or delay the product. If the work around is fairly easy by adding a 3rd party USB card and people are able to start using the processor, is it worth it? While I would prefer to use onboard USB, I don't consider it a big deal to use a 3rd party solution.

I would also point out that historically, AMD has never wanted to be in the chipset business. From my perspective, they only do the initial chipsets to enable the market, then give it over to the chipset vendors to hit mass production. Desiging a chipset is vastly different from designing a processor. Even Intel has faced challenges at being able to do both and they have significantly more resources.

Maybe it's me, but I think you are being a tad cynical.




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 10/08/2003 07:33 PM
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Peritus
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QUOTE Come on they released the MPX rev 1 with broken usb ports, do you think they really care? Even there new chipsets have usb problems.

The boards that were released with the first revision of the MPX chipset came with a USB 2.0 card as a work around for the problem, if I'm not mistaken.
 11/10/2003 12:46 PM
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Richard H
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Nice work around...lose one of your pci slots and no way to access with bios if you are just using a usb keyboard.

Then there is the whole problem with the pci bus. (AMD released a white paper on it)
 11/10/2003 01:48 PM
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amdscooter
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QUOTE None of those have anything to do with the pci slot problems. Those are for videocard refresh problems not the pci bus problem. Fixes the AGP problem only.

Gee Wally, I could have sworn the first paragraph of this post was concerning issues with the refresh rates going back to 60Hz. This is not an AGP issue but a driver issue with some video cards. Maybe you should read a little more b4 posting.


QUOTE Nice work around...lose one of your pci slots and no way to access with bios if you are just using a usb keyboard.

Then there is the whole problem with the pci bus. (AMD released a white paper on it)


Hey Richard H, have anything useful to add to this thread?? So far 3 posts and all you have done is b*tch and nag about how you hate the MPX chipset, and flame other posters who are actually trying to help. Try adding some useful input every now and then. Just my 2c...

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 11/10/2003 08:14 PM
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krado
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RichardH, we would appreciate it if you actually *helped* to solve the problem. Thank you.

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 11/13/2003 04:48 PM
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Scott
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Incase anyone would like to know I got the computer to display the correct resolution every time.

It seems that some old driver files, which had the problem, were staying on the computer even when upgrading the drivers.

I used this:
http://www2.ati.com/drivers/cat-uninstaller.exe' ">http://www2.ati.com/drivers/cat-uninstaller.exe

To remove all traces the the resident ati drives then installed the most current and everything is working just fine.



So the issue was most likely a driver problem (or mpx with radeon driver incompatibility) which was corrected with a driver release (which one I don't know for certain).
 11/13/2003 05:34 PM
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amdscooter
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QUOTE So the issue was most likely a driver problem (or mpx with radeon driver incompatibility) which was corrected with a driver release (which one I don't know for certain).

Hey, as long as the fix works Thanks for the update!

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 11/20/2003 03:42 PM
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Richard H
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QUOTE (Scott @ Oct 6 2003, 07:30 PM) Just a few other general questions:
Would any of the AMD people like to comment on some of the strange MPX chipset errata?

like:
The supposed 25mb/sec limit on the 32-bit pci slots.
or
High network traffic hard-lock if no PS/2 mouse is connected? (experenced this), was perplexed till I saw some suggest having a ps2 mouse connected.
sorry guys, he also did ask about the problems with mpx chipset as well. I do not hate the mpx as I am using it right now. I will try not to flame anyone, sorry. I will only provided info on how to work around/fix problems..

Truly sorry
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