Hi there

For Athlon line of CPU there are many datasheets available on AMD site like here, but for Phenoms there are only four of them, look here.

Why is AMD so silent about Phenoms?

I am personally interested in Phenom power and Thermal datasheet, something like this for Athlons. Is there any information available about Phenom power consumption? How many P-states are there, what is minimum power draw and so on?

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Ubuntu #22262, Ubuntu Serbia #738

Hi

As far as I know, processor thermal and power datasheets were never released to the general public with previous architectural launches until more than 12 months after shipment dates. So far, Family 10h core has only been fully shipping since mid-March 2008 period, so this is entirely normal. You can read the many similar details in the BIOS and Kernel Developers Guide.
However, if you want to access the full data, then it is available and you will have to contact AMD and sign an NDA for such information, if you have very strong acceptable reasons for its application in the first place. It is very common for companies to withhold processor technical information for competitive reasons.

You can access factory programmed thermal and power information embedded within Family 10h core registers if you have access to such a processor.
There are five operating P-States [4:0] with Barcelona and Griffin but only two [1:0] operating ones with Phenom. Refer to the table under the section entitled 'CnQ Idiosyncrasies': http://www.lostcircuits.com/cp...d_phenom9350/16.shtml

Can you clarify specifically what you mean by power consumption? In particular the accuracy you are looking for.
TDP, TDC, TDV and processor power consumption are all very different metrics based on the processor in question and your measuring technique accuracy. To give you a rough example, AMD Phenom 9850 processor at factory specification requires 1.3 VID to operate at 95.2A with a TDP of 125W. Its measured power is dependent on the motherboard VRM efficiency and quality since many have poor quality but typically in our data center measurements, it will consume 15 - 35W in idle with CnQ activated and 95 - 109W full load at approximately 65 - 80% full load VRM efficiency. In idle the VRM efficiency is at 50 - 85% range at best with our measurement figures. The core power consumption in idle depends on the motherboard in question, if it implements AM2+ PSI specification support. That reduces low load operation power consumption quite well.

If you want general, usually inaccurate, system based processor power consumption figures, then there are many online articles of such processors showing this.

Hi Kab,

You have been very informative! Thanks

I am planing to buy a Phenom CPU in a month or two so I am just curious about it and what cooling solution to choose. I must say that many online articles are very negative about Phenom power efficiency so I decided to find as much as possible information myself directly on AMD website and through forums, user reviews and some friends. By power consumption I meant about Min P-state and you answered that as well.

I still have a question or two regarding Phenoms, but I will try to find my answers elsewhere for now

Thanks for the link

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Ubuntu #22262, Ubuntu Serbia #738

I usually only read online reviews by select industry individuals and with Phenom, we have found those done by this individual to be most informative, accurate and thorough, since he is professionally educated in computer science and well known throughout the professional industry: http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/amd_phenom9350/

I provided you figures which will apply to the highest speed/power AMD Phenom processors currently shipping (both). Around late October timeframe, the new 45nm silicon is releasing and it promises better performance, but mainly, much better thermals and power at idle and under load. Since my nephew demonstrated to our work department that AMD Phenom processors can run lower in. P-State voltage and frequencies through CPU MSR tweaking, we've been running Min. P-State at 0.84v 800 MHz on all Phenom processors we have that are not at high loads constantly. The power requirement at that setting for Phenom B3 stepping 9850 and 9950 processors is approximately 9W using motherboards with AM2+ PSI specification support and 18W with motherboards without the AM2+ PSI specification support.

You're welcome.

I googled about AM2+ PSI specification support and it looks like motherboard manufacturers didn't implemented PSI specs into their high-end and mainstream boards. I can't believe it and I'm very disappointed by this. According to this forum only ASRock K10N750SLI-WIFI nForce 750a SLI implemented this feature.

If I understand it correctly, to implement PSI spec, motherboard manufacturers must include an 3rd party PWM controller chip in power circuitry and this is independent of chipset in use. Right?

Are there any more motherboards with PSI specs?



I really do hope 45 nm CPUs will work much better....and motherboard manufacturers will make better boards for AMD.

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Ubuntu #22262, Ubuntu Serbia #738

Only ASRock implemented the support of AM2+ PSI specification, yes. ASRock is the budget and mainstream segment spinoff by ASUS. Their motherboards are engineered and manufactured at the same factories and engineers but after that things take a separate outlet. ASRock's G8200, 750a, 780a and 790GX motherboards all support this feature called 'IES'. I can affirm that this feature works as they describe since we have these motherboards in use in our workplace daily for over two months now. I even gave two to my nephew to test. Our engineering technician actually went shopping just to find motherboards which can run in 1-2 phase operation in low loads (which is very common load for office computers).

The difference is very large for idle power measurements if this feature works properly as AMD specified. With an AMD Phenom 9100e processor, the idle wattage measured at the VRM's drops 48% by disabling extra phase stages using the ASRock 750a motherboard since the VRM's are very inefficient in low load situations unless you decrease the phase stages. The actual processor power consumption stays the same, but the wasted power drawn by the VRM's in converting the 12v supply decreases drastically which also means far less waste heat output and cooler more stable VRM circuits. The requirements to implementing this feature is the adoption of the latest VRM controller IC's and VRM circuit SMD's which have current and voltage sensing pins internally (IMON) within the VRM circuitry. That means, any software which is programmed correctly can access the actual voltage and current being requested at the VRM's by the processor with such hardware support, an excellent feature in my opinion. You can see what difference it makes to AMD Phenom 9850 processor CnQ idle power requirements in this video very clearly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYbqK2Ba2cQ

A very accurate video too there especially when compared with the higher players with their marketing smoke. This video is just a mirror at best, no smoke there. Those are the gains you see in real life and ASRock's tool can show you the voltage and power taken by the processor from the VRM's real-time. In our batch samples and testings it was actually slightly more accurate than our professional engineering ATE's could measure the voltage and current to be since it is all internal in area's we could not access without damaging the IC's. I am unaware of any more motherboards supporting this feature, certainly none other that are shipping at the moment do. Be very sure if they did support it, they would be boasting everywhere about it as is custom for even the most worthless little feature addition. I have also found very few online places make mention of this feature and most being completely oblivious of it while we in the industry are extremely focused on such features.

Thank you Kab for this useful post.


Cheers

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Ubuntu #22262, Ubuntu Serbia #738

Well Kab, it looks like ASRock isn't the only with PSI specs motherboards. Look:



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Ubuntu #22262, Ubuntu Serbia #738

Ah OK. We don't have those motherboards or their company contact available to us here, hence why I wouldn't know. Yes it does seem they are talking about the same thing I called the AM2+ Power State Indicator specification.

Thank you for the information though. I will try to ask our sales advisor's if we can attain some of these motherboard samples to test.

There is a possibility that even MSI made an AM2+ PSI compliant board

">http://global.msi.com....dex.....at2_no=171#


Take a look at GreenPower under DrMOS

Cheers

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Ubuntu #22262, Ubuntu Serbia #738