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Topic Title: Intermittent Freezing AMD Phenom II X4 945
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Created On: 09/28/2009 02:32 PM
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 09/28/2009 02:32 PM
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waltersknight
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Hi All,

This is my first post here I'm trying to get to the bottom of an intermittent freeze issue that mostly seems to occur when playing games - although my machine ran fine for about a week when it got really hot outside I started to get almost immediate lockups playing games like WoW and Half Life 2...

Hopefully my full system specs are in my sig... I had posted on an MSI forum and I am being told there that my memory is the problem because it is not "AMD Tested" - although AMD does not seem to have a list of memory that is tested against the CPU I own.

Can anyone here confirm that it may be a memory issue? The MSI board for the AM3 setup is full of people being advised that they should purchase "AMD Tested" memory to address these intermittent lockups under load but this board does not seem to focus on memory at all as a possible issue.

I should mention that I currently have Vista 64.

-------------------------
Motherboard: MSI 790FX-GD70
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 945 (stock fan installed)
RAM: Corsair XMS3 TW3X4G1333C9 4GB DDR3 2X2GB DDR-1333 CL
Video card: XFX ATI Radeon HD 4850 PCIE 1024MB
Hard Drive: Samsung 7200 320GB
Power supply: Antec Trio 650W Power Supply ATX12V V2.2 EPS12V
Case: Antec 300
Vista 64 OS
 09/28/2009 05:21 PM
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moorhen2
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Hi waltersknight,and welcome to the forum,i cant see this being a memory issue myself,more likely a cpu or gpu overheating problem,you say it locks up under load,this definately points to a heat issue,i would be inclined to download core-temp,it's a free app for monitoring cpu temps,run the app in the taskbar,play your games for 10-15 minutes,then check the core-temp app,and see what your max temp is,this will give us a clue as to wether this is the cpu overheating,which is what my money would be on.

Give this a go and get back to us,hope this helps,we are allways ready to help if we can.

-------------------------
AMD 965BE @4.032GHZ 24/7 VCORE 1.528v TEMPS 32C/52C
MSI 790FX GD70
3 X SAPPHIRE 4890 OC's 991/1100
4 GIG G-SKILL RIPJAWS 1600 @ 7 7 7 24 1.65v RUNNING @1680MHZ
4 SAMSUNG F1 750 GIG SATA II HDD's 2X RAID 0
THERMALTAKE ARMOR+ FULL TOWER CASE
THERMALTAKE TOUGHPOWER MODULAR 850W
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 09/28/2009 05:29 PM
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waltersknight
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Thanks for your reply!

You are indeed correct my research is showing that I have without a doubt got a heatsink issue with my CPU. It didn't come up much when I first made the system because the ambient temps were pretty low but this weekend it was pretty hot and my computer was unplayable.

Anyway - reviewing this site my CPU temps are way out of wack: 50C without load is what I was seeing on my Mobo temp indicator, and the Heatsink fan was running at like 5000 RPM+

Why? Because I reseated the heatsink without re-applying the past on the original install because I was having a tough time locking the heatsink in place until I took it off and figured out how to properly use the plastic pressure lever...

Anyway - I would also like to comment that the amount of thermal paste applied to the heatsink by default from AMD seems really excessive (I thought so at the time) - my research today is showing that the K10 CPUs hardly need any thermal paste and it's very easy to apply too much and actually hurt the cooling.

I'll keep you updated when I sort out the heatsink issue and let you know what my unloaded temps are at the end.

-------------------------
Motherboard: MSI 790FX-GD70
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 945 (stock fan installed)
RAM: Corsair XMS3 TW3X4G1333C9 4GB DDR3 2X2GB DDR-1333 CL
Video card: XFX ATI Radeon HD 4850 PCIE 1024MB
Hard Drive: Samsung 7200 320GB
Power supply: Antec Trio 650W Power Supply ATX12V V2.2 EPS12V
Case: Antec 300
Vista 64 OS
 09/28/2009 10:09 PM
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waltersknight
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Well, thanks for your advice a pulled off the heatsink, put on a nominal amount of Arctic Silver 5 and slapped the whole thing back together.

The result? No crashes so far, <36C at idle and around ~46 playing WoW at max settings.

I'll keep you guys posted of any changes.

-------------------------
Motherboard: MSI 790FX-GD70
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 945 (stock fan installed)
RAM: Corsair XMS3 TW3X4G1333C9 4GB DDR3 2X2GB DDR-1333 CL
Video card: XFX ATI Radeon HD 4850 PCIE 1024MB
Hard Drive: Samsung 7200 320GB
Power supply: Antec Trio 650W Power Supply ATX12V V2.2 EPS12V
Case: Antec 300
Vista 64 OS
 09/29/2009 04:25 AM
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moorhen2
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I am happy that you sorted it out mate,i was pretty confident it was overheating issues on the cpu,happy gaming,lol!!!!

-------------------------
AMD 965BE @4.032GHZ 24/7 VCORE 1.528v TEMPS 32C/52C
MSI 790FX GD70
3 X SAPPHIRE 4890 OC's 991/1100
4 GIG G-SKILL RIPJAWS 1600 @ 7 7 7 24 1.65v RUNNING @1680MHZ
4 SAMSUNG F1 750 GIG SATA II HDD's 2X RAID 0
THERMALTAKE ARMOR+ FULL TOWER CASE
THERMALTAKE TOUGHPOWER MODULAR 850W
THERMALTAKE BIGWATER 760IS WC
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 09/29/2009 12:45 PM
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waltersknight
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Originally posted by: waltersknight

Well, thanks for your advice a pulled off the heatsink, put on a nominal amount of Arctic Silver 5 and slapped the whole thing back together.



The result? No crashes so far, <36C at idle and around ~46 playing WoW at max settings.



I'll keep you guys posted of any changes.


Sorry to say that right before I went to sleep last night my computer froze again

CPU temp was fine, about 44C. I was running WoW and firefox and I was streaming KQED forum audio through firefox. It locked up just like before... although this was after about 4 hours of constant gaming and streaming of audio with no hiccups whatsoever.

So - the mystery lives on - any ideas?

-------------------------
Motherboard: MSI 790FX-GD70
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 945 (stock fan installed)
RAM: Corsair XMS3 TW3X4G1333C9 4GB DDR3 2X2GB DDR-1333 CL
Video card: XFX ATI Radeon HD 4850 PCIE 1024MB
Hard Drive: Samsung 7200 320GB
Power supply: Antec Trio 650W Power Supply ATX12V V2.2 EPS12V
Case: Antec 300
Vista 64 OS
 09/29/2009 01:22 PM
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waltersknight
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FYI - back to memory as being the possible culprit - I did find this article on the subject and I may just underclock as recommended...

http://www.dvhardware.net/article33316.html

I'm not sure whether AMD has fixed this yet but I think my memory may be the issue based on this article.

-------------------------
Motherboard: MSI 790FX-GD70
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 945 (stock fan installed)
RAM: Corsair XMS3 TW3X4G1333C9 4GB DDR3 2X2GB DDR-1333 CL
Video card: XFX ATI Radeon HD 4850 PCIE 1024MB
Hard Drive: Samsung 7200 320GB
Power supply: Antec Trio 650W Power Supply ATX12V V2.2 EPS12V
Case: Antec 300
Vista 64 OS
 09/29/2009 02:08 PM
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sswilson
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You didn't mention if you were overclocking at all....

I've got the same board as you (currently having issues with a 955be, but had a 720be working fine) and found that I needed to bump up the NB voltages a bit to keep the memory completely stable at speeds higher than 533 (1066).

I also found that I was better off setting the main timings loose (9-11-11-24-40 @ 1600) until I had everything else dialed in and then tighten up the timings individually to find the sweet spot. It's also much better to bring the speeds up slowly (small steps) to allow the "auto" settings to adjust accordingly.

If you're running your NB higher than stock you may find that looser timings are the only thing that's going to work for you.
 09/29/2009 02:18 PM
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waltersknight
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I'm actually not overclocking at all - and to be honest other than updating drivers I have NOT messed around in BIOS at all other than to disable "Cool 'n Quiet".

I downloaded the 1.5 BIOS update but when I tried to run it I got an error about using Vista 64... so the BIOS is exactly as I got it from MSI right now. I have also not fiddled at all with memory timings so that really may be the issue.

-------------------------
Motherboard: MSI 790FX-GD70
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 945 (stock fan installed)
RAM: Corsair XMS3 TW3X4G1333C9 4GB DDR3 2X2GB DDR-1333 CL
Video card: XFX ATI Radeon HD 4850 PCIE 1024MB
Hard Drive: Samsung 7200 320GB
Power supply: Antec Trio 650W Power Supply ATX12V V2.2 EPS12V
Case: Antec 300
Vista 64 OS
 09/29/2009 02:26 PM
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sswilson
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Originally posted by: waltersknight

I'm actually not overclocking at all - and to be honest other than updating drivers I have NOT messed around in BIOS at all other than to disable "Cool 'n Quiet".



I downloaded the 1.5 BIOS update but when I tried to run it I got an error about using Vista 64... so the BIOS is exactly as I got it from MSI right now. I have also not fiddled at all with memory timings so that really may be the issue.


Best way to update the bios is to put it on a usb stick and do it from within bios rather than through the operating system (especially if you're not completely sure the system is stable).

As far as the erratum you linked to above... are you running 4 sticks of memory? If you're only running 2 sticks then it will not apply as it only refers to memory on the same channel (normal operation for two sticks is "dual channel" which means that each stick is on it's own channel).

You may want to do a bit of research on settings in bios and tweak your memory settings.... have you set your memory voltages to the manufacturer's suggested V? Most higher end memory sets require higher-than-default voltage settings, that might also be the issue you're having.
 09/29/2009 02:33 PM
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waltersknight
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Well, I'm just running the two sticks so I guess that AMD bug I linked to is not the answer...

I will definitely research the memory settings and experiment with that tonight because I have not checked that at all yet - no prior system I've ever had has been this high performance and memory has never been anything more than plug 'n play.

-------------------------
Motherboard: MSI 790FX-GD70
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 945 (stock fan installed)
RAM: Corsair XMS3 TW3X4G1333C9 4GB DDR3 2X2GB DDR-1333 CL
Video card: XFX ATI Radeon HD 4850 PCIE 1024MB
Hard Drive: Samsung 7200 320GB
Power supply: Antec Trio 650W Power Supply ATX12V V2.2 EPS12V
Case: Antec 300
Vista 64 OS
 09/29/2009 03:21 PM
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moorhen2
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Have you set the ram timings manualy in the bios,ie 7 7 7 ?,or 6 6 6 ?,and so on,also you are allways better off running unganged as apposed to ganged,the GD70 does'nt like ganged that much.

-------------------------
AMD 965BE @4.032GHZ 24/7 VCORE 1.528v TEMPS 32C/52C
MSI 790FX GD70
3 X SAPPHIRE 4890 OC's 991/1100
4 GIG G-SKILL RIPJAWS 1600 @ 7 7 7 24 1.65v RUNNING @1680MHZ
4 SAMSUNG F1 750 GIG SATA II HDD's 2X RAID 0
THERMALTAKE ARMOR+ FULL TOWER CASE
THERMALTAKE TOUGHPOWER MODULAR 850W
THERMALTAKE BIGWATER 760IS WC
28" HANNS-G LCD 1920X1200 3ms
WINDOWS 7 ULTIMATE 32bit OS
 09/29/2009 03:32 PM
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waltersknight
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Originally posted by: moorhen2

Have you set the ram timings manualy in the bios,ie 7 7 7 ?,or 6 6 6 ?,and so on,also you are allways better off running unganged as apposed to ganged,the GD70 does'nt like ganged that much.


No I have not tweaked the ram timings at all yet - when I get home I'll try that first since it certainly seems that stock settings don't cooperate well the the Mobo I have according to the MSI forum -

-------------------------
Motherboard: MSI 790FX-GD70
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 945 (stock fan installed)
RAM: Corsair XMS3 TW3X4G1333C9 4GB DDR3 2X2GB DDR-1333 CL
Video card: XFX ATI Radeon HD 4850 PCIE 1024MB
Hard Drive: Samsung 7200 320GB
Power supply: Antec Trio 650W Power Supply ATX12V V2.2 EPS12V
Case: Antec 300
Vista 64 OS
 09/29/2009 08:30 PM
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sswilson
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Yeah, my advice would be to put some work into your mem settings.

Mine is rated 7-7-7-20 @ 1600, but I'm currently running it 9-11-11-24 until I find the upper limit of my cpu clock. Once I get that, I'll drop the timings down until it's no longer stable.
 09/30/2009 04:19 PM
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armourbl
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I know it isn't apples to apples, but I'm having a similar issue. I'm not an experienced overclocker, so take what I say as not accurate, just thoughts to try and help. Based on my experience so far, I'd say you have a memory issue. Reason I say this is my machine runs stable with everything set to auto in the BIOS, but my RAM then runs at 1066.

When I tried to bump up the RAM to 1600, FSB/DRAM at 1.4, 8 8 8 24, 1.7v, I'd get lockups. Back it back down to stock BIOS settings, and it runs fine again at 1066 with timing reported at 7 7 7 24 if I recall correctly.

I've been reading and it seems as though you have to increase the CPU to NB at the same time as increasing the RAM. Haven't tried this yet though.

May try the loser timing first and see what I get. Even at 9 11 11 24 as sswilson suggest I'm sure it would still run pretty fast.

I've also read some posts and articles that suggest you can actually get equal if not better performance at 1333 with the proper timing. So, I may give that try as well.

ben

-------------------------
MSI NF980-G65 ATX AMD Motherboard
AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor
Zalman CNPS9700 NT heatsink and fan
MSI GeForce GTX 275 N275GTX Lightning Video Card
OCZ Gold AMD Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
Western Digital VelociRaptor 150GB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s
Thermaltake Armor+MX VH8000BWS Black Computer
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 09/30/2009 05:45 PM
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sswilson
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Originally posted by: armourbl

I know it isn't apples to apples, but I'm having a similar issue. I'm not an experienced overclocker, so take what I say as not accurate, just thoughts to try and help. Based on my experience so far, I'd say you have a memory issue. Reason I say this is my machine runs stable with everything set to auto in the BIOS, but my RAM then runs at 1066.



When I tried to bump up the RAM to 1600, FSB/DRAM at 1.4, 8 8 8 24, 1.7v, I'd get lockups. Back it back down to stock BIOS settings, and it runs fine again at 1066 with timing reported at 7 7 7 24 if I recall correctly.



I've been reading and it seems as though you have to increase the CPU to NB at the same time as increasing the RAM. Haven't tried this yet though.



May try the loser timing first and see what I get. Even at 9 11 11 24 as sswilson suggest I'm sure it would still run pretty fast.



I've also read some posts and articles that suggest you can actually get equal if not better performance at 1333 with the proper timing. So, I may give that try as well.



ben



Yep.... in most cases High clockspeeds + looser (higher #s) timings = lower clockspeeds + tighter (lower #s) timings , and unless you're heavily into benchmarking you'll never see the difference.
 09/30/2009 06:51 PM
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geezer_wheelz
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It also could be that the crashes have screwed up your operating system and that is what is causing the lockups now.

Before you start throwing any money at this problem I would suggest reinstalling the operating system and all the drivers etc.
Or maybe even just try an OS repair. (personally, I have never had it help me, but it has worked for some people!)
Good luck!!

-------------------------
Asus M4A79 Deluxe, Phenom II 940 BE, 20,770 3D06

Asus Moderator ~ My CPU Overheating Guide
 10/01/2009 04:51 AM
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moorhen2
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Originally posted by: armourbl

I know it isn't apples to apples, but I'm having a similar issue. I'm not an experienced overclocker, so take what I say as not accurate, just thoughts to try and help. Based on my experience so far, I'd say you have a memory issue. Reason I say this is my machine runs stable with everything set to auto in the BIOS, but my RAM then runs at 1066.



When I tried to bump up the RAM to 1600, FSB/DRAM at 1.4, 8 8 8 24, 1.7v, I'd get lockups. Back it back down to stock BIOS settings, and it runs fine again at 1066 with timing reported at 7 7 7 24 if I recall correctly.



I've been reading and it seems as though you have to increase the CPU to NB at the same time as increasing the RAM. Haven't tried this yet though.



May try the loser timing first and see what I get. Even at 9 11 11 24 as sswilson suggest I'm sure it would still run pretty fast.



I've also read some posts and articles that suggest you can actually get equal if not better performance at 1333 with the proper timing. So, I may give that try as well.



ben


The MSI board you are running wont run ram on a 1:4 divider,it's a known issue,the only way to get 1600 memory to run at 1600 is to use multi and fsb oc to get it to 1600,but on a 3:8 divider.Having said that,my MSI GD70 would'nt run 1600 on the 1:4 divider,but with the latest beta bios,this has now been fixed,so this has been your problem,1600 on a 1:4 divider,it's a no go on that board.

-------------------------
AMD 965BE @4.032GHZ 24/7 VCORE 1.528v TEMPS 32C/52C
MSI 790FX GD70
3 X SAPPHIRE 4890 OC's 991/1100
4 GIG G-SKILL RIPJAWS 1600 @ 7 7 7 24 1.65v RUNNING @1680MHZ
4 SAMSUNG F1 750 GIG SATA II HDD's 2X RAID 0
THERMALTAKE ARMOR+ FULL TOWER CASE
THERMALTAKE TOUGHPOWER MODULAR 850W
THERMALTAKE BIGWATER 760IS WC
28" HANNS-G LCD 1920X1200 3ms
WINDOWS 7 ULTIMATE 32bit OS


Edited: 10/01/2009 at 06:02 AM by moorhen2
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