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Topic Title: Phenom 9500 + Asus M3A very low performance
Topic Summary: Any help is appreciated!
Created On: 01/12/2008 03:37 AM
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 01/12/2008 03:37 AM
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dkrule
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I posted another thread like this, but in a wrong section, moderators please delete it if possible.
http://forums.amd.com/forum/me...d=91025&enterthread=y

But I really need some help because I'm starting to get really frustrated.

AMD phenom 9500 @ 2.2 GHz
Asus M3A (AM2+ supported)
2x2GB PC6400 DDR2 @ 800mhz
256MB Geforce 8500GT

I updated the bios to v.406 (including the tlb patch) but nothing seem to improve.
Most of my 3D games crash abnormally. Universal at War crashs 5 min after I started a match. World of Warcraft crashs around 20 mins or even 5 mins after I started. I even compare the performance with my old Athon 5600+ (2GB RAM, 256 MB Geforce 7600). And it pissed me off because the Hellgate London game can run a lot more stable (less lag) at even higher video setting than my PC.
Here are some cpu-z ss





kazgirl suggested that it may be something with the HT settings. So I check the BIOS, but i'm clueless. It has:

Isochronous Flow-Control Mode (Disabled/Enabled)
HT Link Tristate (Disabled/CAD/CTL/CLK)
UnitID Clumping (Disabled/UnitID2/3--B/C--2/3&B/C)
2x LCLK mode (Disabled/Enabled)

Currently all my settings are at disabled
Is there anyway to fix or improve it? Appreciate any help. Thx
 01/12/2008 03:19 PM
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AnakinVaderWalker
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Hi dkrule,

I have the same motherboard. I think you're experiencing very low performance because of the bios. Version 406 is beta and it's acknowledged in the asus forums that using it will reduce system performance, even more so if you choose to apply the TLB patch. Unless you can find a way to revert back to the 1.xx bios that originally came with your motherboard, that is safe and wont fry your system, you'll have to wait for another bios release to fix your issues. When it's out of beta, it should be fast and stable, asus is pretty good.

I haven't adjusted any of the HT settings in my bios so I can't help you there, but for gaming stablility, you might gain some by ensuring your ram is running at 2.0 voltage, 400 MHz and 5-5-5-12 timings. I had to overclock (force) my M3A to run my ram at 533 MHz. When left at 'auto', it would also default to 1.8 voltage and 400 MHz.

I'm running Crysis at 1024x768 with max settings and Oblivion at 1920x1200 with HDR and max settings, neither crash or exhibit abnormal behavior. I upgraded from an X2 4200 (2.2 GHz) with 400 MHz ram and have noticed a significant increase in performance with my Phenom setup. That's why I'm surprised you're having problems and think a solution to your crashes might exist.

Let me know if you need any more from me.

-------------------------
AMD Phenom 9600 B2 - 2.48 GHz - 1.25V - 43C hot idle
Asus M3A - AMD 770 - 216 MHz ref. clock
Crucial Ballistix 2x1GB - 575 MHz - 2.25V
Sapphire HD3870 - 815/1176 MHz
24" Samsung 245bw (Crap, don't buy Samsung!)
--- Building an AM3 Dragon ---
Lian Li PC-B25 (blue ring)
Corsair TX750W
 01/12/2008 11:17 PM
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dkrule
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@AnakinVaderWalker
Thx for the help!
But I don't know what to do anymore. I got lousy scores 2103 and 3364 benchmark from the 3DMark06 and PCMark Vantage. Probally because I tried the basic (free) version and they can't recognize my CPU (as they both doesn't stat my CPU info at the results)
From the test I can't tell why the performance is so bad... I got like 1-5 fps (11 was fastest Y_Y). Even my old PC give much more fps (also 4 GB ram, Geforce 8500GT). I tried to play Bioshock again (worked really well with my Athons 64x 5600+) but it froze at the game menu and i have to manually restart it. I have all newest drivers and hotfixs installed but other than that I don't know how to make it better. I have a tower with 2 front, 1 tops, 1 back fans, but i'm not so sure about my cooling systems to be able to handle OC (core at 44'-46'C, MB at 28-30'C)
 01/13/2008 04:52 PM
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leexgx
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you got every thing els fast but skimped on the video card ??

you may find on an 8500GT card that score is right (its an crap card any way if your intention is playing games) that card is more suited to Windows Media Center PC type as it has full hardware Video decode

Being Free or payed does not make your score better as its an benchmark

get an AMD HD 3850/3870 (or any 8800 range) and your score and games will perform better and update your bios

-------------------------
Gameing > AMD64 5000+ X2 Black (OC 3.2ghz - 1.375v) > TK Big Typoon > Asus M2N32-SLI delux > 2.2gb 4gb Gell ram > NVIDIA 8800 GTX > X-FI

Server > phenom 9500 (OC 2.475ghz 1.3v)> 4gb ram > Asus M3A32-MVP> lots of disk space

Edited: 01/13/2008 at 05:09 PM by leexgx
 01/14/2008 02:24 AM
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dkrule
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Well, I built my PC about 8 months ago, with the athon 64x 5600+ (when those 8600,8800 are still sky high in prices) and it was pretty well done, considering all the cost was under $800.
It was stable too. At least I can play Universal at War and Bioshock.
I'll have to save up a bit for the 8800, but the only annoying part is that it is not very stable, and I just can't stand how it performed worse than my old Athon (gave it to my lit bro now).
I just want to know if there is any way to make it a bit more stable because for those games my PC should be more than enough to play

Edited: 01/14/2008 at 05:20 PM by dkrule
 01/15/2008 02:15 AM
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AnakinVaderWalker
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dkrule,

You'll have to wait for a newer bios, version 406 sucks. Using the TLB patch makes it slower, so I suggest you turn it off.

1. Do you have other applications running? Any icons in the taskbar?
2. Did you reinstall Windows when you installed the Phenom?
3. Assuming you use Windows XP, when you press CRTL-ALT-DEL together, how many 'Processes' does it say you're running in the bottom left corner?
4. Can you confirm your RAM is running at the highest speed? (400,5-5-5-12,2.0V) It is shown on the Memory tab of theCPU-Z program you posted images of.

Ani

P.S. My Phenom 9600 runs at 1.248 voltage.

-------------------------
AMD Phenom 9600 B2 - 2.48 GHz - 1.25V - 43C hot idle
Asus M3A - AMD 770 - 216 MHz ref. clock
Crucial Ballistix 2x1GB - 575 MHz - 2.25V
Sapphire HD3870 - 815/1176 MHz
24" Samsung 245bw (Crap, don't buy Samsung!)
--- Building an AM3 Dragon ---
Lian Li PC-B25 (blue ring)
Corsair TX750W

Edited: 01/15/2008 at 02:38 AM by AnakinVaderWalker
 01/15/2008 03:28 AM
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dkrule
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Originally posted by: AnakinVaderWalker

dkrule,

You'll have to wait for a newer bios, version 406 sucks. Using the TLB patch makes it slower, so I suggest you turn it off.

1. Do you have other applications running? Any icons in the taskbar?

2. Did you reinstall Windows when you installed the Phenom?

3. Assuming you use Windows XP, when you press CRTL-ALT-DEL together, how many 'Processes' does it say you're running in the bottom left corner?

4. Can you confirm your RAM is running at the highest speed? (400,5-5-5-12,2.0V) It is shown on the Memory tab of theCPU-Z program you posted images of.

Ani

P.S. My Phenom 9600 runs at 1.248 voltage.

Thx for replying
Can you please guide me how to turn it off? I tried it with the AOD, and CrystalPC (after reading several threads in oc forums) but I have no clue how to turn it off.
1. I don't run any other application when i'm playing games. And those games just froze at certain points (even after I tried reinstalling them).
2. Yes, I did install window again after I installed the Phenom.
3. I'm using Vista (and I installed all the hotfixs), I checked and I have 50 applications running at idle.
4. I check over the BIOS but it didn't tell (only that my Bios said i have 4 gb ram, but it appears 3.3 gb on most of information programs I run). I download AOD again, but this time it said it can't find my AMD CPU, so I can't tell exactly, but as far as I remember it show on other testing programs, my ram's voltage has always been 2.0v

thx again for the help.
 01/17/2008 12:03 PM
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AnakinVaderWalker
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Hi dkrule,

Sorry I haven't responded sooner, been feeling sick.

You are correct, I remember reading that you'll have to turn TLB off with an application like AOD, not the bios. When a newer version of the biod is out, it should include this option. I haven't installed AOD or the bios 406 so I can't help. I only know what other people have said.

1. Good! Scratch that off the list of potential causes.
2. Good, smart of you. This can't be the cause.
3. 50 applications seems a little high, but not that bad. For example, I have a pocket-computer (UMPC) that runs Vista Business, it has 40 process after boot, which includes some non-microsoft services: 3 customized services from the UMPC manufacturer, bluetooth and a Sigmatel audio control panel. The point being Vista needs less than 40 services to run properly, so you might find some performance/stability gains by reliquishing CPU cycles from useless background services. I used this guide to tweak my Vista services: http://www.tweakhound.com/vista/index.htm
4. Good, memory should be running at top speed, unless you overclock, where you might reduce memory speed a bit to gain stability.

Many people are reporting problems with the 9500 so you might have a dud. You might want to consider exchanging it. Get a 9600 if you can, I have no problems and I can stabily overclock my 9600 to 2575 MHz without increasing the voltage. It's a monster and I'm very pleased with my purchase. Stability can be gained by reducing speeds or inceasing voltages. I reduce my memory from 533 MHz to 400 MHz when I overclock, otherwise it's BSOD-time. Some people are saying they saw better speeds when Cool 'n Quiet is turned on in the bios, maybe try that, but I don't use it.

For some 9500s, people are reporting that when they overclock each core independently, one core will BSOD Windows when benchmarks are run against it. You should try this too, overclock each core independently and ascertain if you have a similar situation. Maybe one of your cores is so bad that it doesn't even like the stock 2.2 GHz? Here's a link to that discussion: http://forums.amd.com/forum/me...d=90533&enterthread=y

What happens if you underclock to 2.1 GHz?

Anyway, let me know what happens or what you decide to do. I'll help any way I can, short of sending money to Nigeria.

Ani

-------------------------
AMD Phenom 9600 B2 - 2.48 GHz - 1.25V - 43C hot idle
Asus M3A - AMD 770 - 216 MHz ref. clock
Crucial Ballistix 2x1GB - 575 MHz - 2.25V
Sapphire HD3870 - 815/1176 MHz
24" Samsung 245bw (Crap, don't buy Samsung!)
--- Building an AM3 Dragon ---
Lian Li PC-B25 (blue ring)
Corsair TX750W
 01/17/2008 12:44 PM
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dkrule
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my exchange period was over a while ago Y_Y. I guess I have to live with i have until the newer bios come out or i save enough money to upgrade again.
Thx for all the help AnakinVaderWalker, I'll be sure to ask if I have further question.
 01/17/2008 01:42 PM
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Methious
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Hey dk

I have the same board, bios 0501 was pre-released to a user and he got permission to post it. I don't know all the rules over here so I'll pm you a link to it. It has better Phenom support, and if I remember correctly NB voltage control.

-------------------------
Asus M3A X2 6400 Black Box
4 Gig Mushkin DDR2 800
2 Raid 0 Array Xp Pro/Vista Dual Boot
Corsair 620w PSU
Gforce 8800 GT 512 Alpha Dog
X-Fi Extreme Audio Logitec 140w Dol 5.1
Ultra Grid Case
 01/18/2008 02:54 AM
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dkrule
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Originally posted by: Methious

Hey dk



I have the same board, bios 0501 was pre-released to a user and he got permission to post it. I don't know all the rules over here so I'll pm you a link to it. It has better Phenom support, and if I remember correctly NB voltage control.

well, that would be great, thx a ton. Plz send the link to me.
 01/18/2008 09:39 AM
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flipmix
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hey guys im having the same problem as dkrule... same cpu and mobo 4gigz ram
everytime i play a 3d game like pro street or aoe 3 or something it crashes and all i see is power saving mode on screen then ill just have to manually reboot comp
btw i also updated my bios to 0406 beta and still get the same problem
 01/18/2008 09:39 AM
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flipmix
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oh yeah thx in advance
 01/20/2008 05:22 AM
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wwarlock
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One thing you might also want to check is your power supply..... are you sure you have enough power??
 01/20/2008 05:58 AM
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Evax
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hmm, in ur CPU-Z , where urs has "rated FSB" , mine is "HT Link". I have no idea if this could help , simply an observation
 01/24/2008 01:45 AM
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dkrule
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so what happen with the 501 bios? where can i get it? thx in advance

Edited: 01/24/2008 at 01:46 AM by dkrule
 01/24/2008 12:03 PM
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AnakinVaderWalker
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Bonjour mon ami,

It looks like there is a 601 version of the bios now available. According to the time-stamp of the file, it was released today! so there aren't any comments or indications of its usability in the asus forums yet.

Are you going to try it? I would if I was you.

ftp://ftp.asus.com.tw/pub/ASUS/mb/socketAM2/M3A/

FYI: If you can't download the file, for whatever reason, let me know. I've saved a copy to my desktop.

Cheers!

-------------------------
AMD Phenom 9600 B2 - 2.48 GHz - 1.25V - 43C hot idle
Asus M3A - AMD 770 - 216 MHz ref. clock
Crucial Ballistix 2x1GB - 575 MHz - 2.25V
Sapphire HD3870 - 815/1176 MHz
24" Samsung 245bw (Crap, don't buy Samsung!)
--- Building an AM3 Dragon ---
Lian Li PC-B25 (blue ring)
Corsair TX750W
 01/24/2008 11:02 PM
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dkrule
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thx, anakin
I flashed successfully. But the readme wasn't included in the download, so i have no clue what are the changes.
I check the bios and the cpuz, both are pretty much the same.
and also, how to turn off/on the tlb patch?
I can at least stand the performance loss, but even some of my older game (star war: empire at war) also freeze after a while.
Just hope this fix it, i'll test it now
thx for the help
edit:
my games still freeze as they always did. so i guess it wasn't address.

Edited: 01/24/2008 at 11:13 PM by dkrule
 01/25/2008 12:26 AM
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AnakinVaderWalker
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dkrule, All I've read is suppositories. I think you turn off the TLB patch with software like AOD or crystal cpu. That's what I've read in this forums. As you might have noticed in the ftp where you downloaded the 601 update, there is a 301 update which is the original as far as I understand. I say that if you patched the bios back to original and continued to experience the same crashing, then the motherboard is not the cause.

Dude, what about your power supply? Weird crashing under load can be due to a faulty one. You could borrow your brothers and verify it isn't the culprit. If your brother's RAM will work in your system then try that too. You should try different configurations of hardware changing components one-by-on to figure out which the bad one. Doing it like that is the only way to be sure which is faulty.

Try the power supply.

-------------------------
AMD Phenom 9600 B2 - 2.48 GHz - 1.25V - 43C hot idle
Asus M3A - AMD 770 - 216 MHz ref. clock
Crucial Ballistix 2x1GB - 575 MHz - 2.25V
Sapphire HD3870 - 815/1176 MHz
24" Samsung 245bw (Crap, don't buy Samsung!)
--- Building an AM3 Dragon ---
Lian Li PC-B25 (blue ring)
Corsair TX750W
 01/25/2008 12:52 AM
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dkrule
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well, basically everything else are the same, the only parts i changed were the motherboard and the CPU. And they all works fine, no crashing, no freezing, all the games that have crashed are all playing normally before i change the MB and CPU.
I also tried the the calculating the power needed in the asus website (even added some extra hardware and fan-that i don't actually have), I still have a lot left over (need 350W, i have 550W). The same can be said to the RAM, my friends bought the same (4GB) and it runs very stable with the Intel-Quad core. Also, because i experience the crashing that i updated it from 306 to 401.

Also, I think it's pretty normal to assume that the MB can be a bit faulty if it's release 2 beta bios in less than 2 months. Also, i have no trouble with both the MB and CPU when using window at all. I'm just trying to figure out why the some games just crashed and the gaming performance are worse than it was expected (even with the tlb patch).

Sorry, i didn't try to be annoying because i'm not really familiar with these kind of stuffs and a bit frustrated. What can i say when my PC can't run game smoothly at medium setting while the obviously weaker PC play stable and fast with high setting.
thx for the reply though.
btw, will down core to 3 or 2 any help? I'm running low on money so replacing/buying new MB/CPU is not an option.

Edited: 01/25/2008 at 02:08 AM by dkrule
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