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Topic Title: 9950 Temperature Concerns
Topic Summary: Is this thing really running so hot!
Created On: 07/27/2008 06:47 AM
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 09/15/2008 06:48 PM
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aj9950
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If anyone's interested... I've got the Zalman 9500 installed. I overclocked to 2.9Ghz, but increasing the multiplier to 14.5. System seems to be stable, boot up, memory test with no crash, blue screen and memory dump.

Speedfan temperature...

Temp 1 idle at 36-37 C
Core idle at 28-29 C

Load 75-100% on all 4 cores at any one time.
Temp 1 peak 61 C
Core peak 52 C

Temp 2 is pretty steady at 34-38 C during all load conditions.

Can't do a direct comparison, because I haven't clocked so high.

I'm worried possibly the Temp1 corresponds to CPU temp rather than Tjunction, in which I don't feel too comfortable peaking at 61. I only loaded for about 5 minutes.

Do any of you know how to verify if it's Tjunction or Core temperature Speedfan is corresponding to? Is ther anyother program that is a good temperature monitor?

Until then I'm not going to push pass 2.8 ghz.
 09/15/2008 07:13 PM
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Superhal
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coretemp will verify tcasemax: www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/

you look good so far.

if you have trouble with stability, try adjusting the ram timings or voltages to adjust for the increased fsb. i think a lot of people who are saying phenoms can't overclock well are ignoring this as a source of instability. make sure to adjust them down, rather than trying to force them to work at the higher fsb with more voltage.

-------------------------

9750 X4 // 8600 GT // PC-6400 DDR2 800 mhz 1gig X 2 // WD 500 GB SATA HD // 580w PSU // Core Contact Freezer w/ IC Diamond 7 // DVD-RW // Win XP 32 bit // CPU-Z Validation #420180
 10/05/2008 01:09 AM
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CodeRedDewd
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I have the ASUS Silent Square hsf, and it does a great job!! I'm running the M3N-HT Deluxe mobo with 9950. I overclocked it to 3.2Ghz using the multiplier only and it stayed pretty cool, in the 30s with CoreTemp. Now I have it clocked at 3.42Ghz with the voltage up to 1.456V, and I'm running 55degC after running Prime95 for 30 min. This thing overclocked easily. I had to step up the V a bit because I got a couple of errors on P95 after 2hrs. If it's true that the safe max temp is 75degC then I have a ways to go before I have a problem I guess. If you look on the Overclocking World Record Database, it shows someone using air cooling with 1.6V. What's the max safe voltage, or is the temp that tops out first and determines the safe voltage.

Hey aj9950, you're being kinda easy on the 9950. I did some reading and jumped the multiplier up to 16 making 3.2Ghz on my first shot out of the hole and it was stable. It didn't boot at x17, so I had to start upping the V.

Anyone know of any other good hardware testing programs, other than Prime95 that detect the smallest error in hardware?

Also, anyone have a problem with CPU-Z? it's not showing my proc being overclocked at all, at 2.6Ghz with the stock multiplier. It's obviously overclocked, cuz it's faster and it shows in Windows that it is. Not to mention it's hotter, lol.

I would like to know how that guy got his up to 3.715Ghz with air cooling at 1.6V... I want to go faster, but 3.42 is a decent OC! My computer is so fast now, the windows open just before I click.
 10/05/2008 01:58 AM
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Black Edition
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Your too hot....... sounds like you have a snall case and bad CPU cooler.. consider getting a larger case.
In order of the best..

1) Thermaltake or Lian Li case

CPU cooler..once you have the room....

1) Thermalright 120 Extreme..if your not using memory with fins like Dominator or OCZ Reaper RAM

2) Thermaltake V 1 Cooler..the one I have...super

3) Zalman CNPS 9500
4) ArcticSilver thermal paste and cleanign solvents

If your you have lots of room and want the abolute monster cooler and don't mind taking out the motherboard..then may I suggest the Thermalright IFX-14 Heatpipe CPU Heatsink Cooler LGA775/AM2...with a few 120mm fans or 120mm Silevrstone "hyperfan" with speed control..that would be the next closest thing to water cooling.

Regards, JRM

-------------------------
AMD X4 Phenom 9950 BE 125W TDP/ OC to 3.1 GHz /Asus Crosshair, Bios 1207/ Corsair Doninator 1066 RAM @ 5,5,5,15 @ 2T /1.86 V/ 2x Evga 8800 Ultra/Razor AC1 Barracuda Gaming sound card/PSU.. Silverstone OP1000 /
OS...XP64 Pro and Vista 64 Ultimate/ rating 5.9/ Temps... CPU 38C Idle/ 54 C on load, NB @ 38 C to 40 C on load.
Case: Thermaltake "Armour"
 10/05/2008 02:07 AM
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Superhal
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if everest works on your computer, that's better for stress testing. on my computer, it causes the voltage to jump .06 over what i set it to, causing the temperature to jump around.

are you using AOD? maybe that's what's causing it not to show up in cpuz.

-------------------------

9750 X4 // 8600 GT // PC-6400 DDR2 800 mhz 1gig X 2 // WD 500 GB SATA HD // 580w PSU // Core Contact Freezer w/ IC Diamond 7 // DVD-RW // Win XP 32 bit // CPU-Z Validation #420180
 10/05/2008 04:39 AM
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aj9950
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I'll see how it works on 3.0 to 3.1 range.

You hear all the people on newegg or other forums who broke their CPU. Or it went bad after a few weeks. Likely fried the CPU by overclocking beyond a critical temp sometime. I have built plenty of computers and overclocked a lot of them, haven't been too careless to fry a CPU yet, (knock on wood).

Even overclocked currentl at 2.9 it does heat up pretty high... Temp1 at high 50s and Core at high 40s. on Speedfan.

I'll try pushing a little bit more, but temp max of 75 seems too high.

The common max temperature I read are:

Max Ambient Case Temp: X4 9950: 61 degrees Celsius

Max operating temperature (°C) ? 64

I'll Let you know how the temps are after that.
 10/05/2008 12:45 PM
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CodeRedDewd
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I read somwhere on this site that engineers kinda came up with 75degC as a max safe temp, and engineers build in a safety factor for variables too. I also read on here that somewhere around 110degC is when silicon gets damaged or something. But you're a lot hotter than I was at that small of an overclock. My temp barely rose at 3.2Ghz full load over not OC and full load. With my current OC it runs 59-60 while running the Intel Burn Test that is suppose to stress the cpu to 100%, but do it in a way that uses more of it with different calculations. I guess there's different kinds of 100% from what I read. It seems like you need a bigger cooler or something. You're heating up way too fast, compared to mine.
 10/05/2008 12:52 PM
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CodeRedDewd
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This ASUS silent square does a pretty good job, but at some point I guess it needs more fan inside. It has one of those slow, silent fans in it, and the fins warm up quite a bit and need more airflow. I have the MasterCooler case 932 HAF which has 4 120mm fans in it. When I open the side, my CPU temp goes up 3degC, so I guess I'm getting good airflow. When I OC'd to 3.2 with the multiplier, I was impressed that the temp didn't go up much at all at full load, over non OC and full load. I used the Intel Burn Test that is suppose to heat things up an extra 20degC, and was skeptical. I tried it and got 2degC more, to about 60degC. I just think I need fan with more volume in my CPU cooler.
 10/05/2008 12:53 PM
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CodeRedDewd
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What is AOD?
 10/05/2008 04:45 PM
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aj9950
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Now I have the rig o.c.'ed at 3.0 Ghz. System seems pretty stable, no blue screen despite multiple applications.

Stress test temps (temp1/core) as from CoreTemp and Speedfan.

I have to admit that this stress test I've done is graphic intensive and I have a 8800GT O.C. which may hemper my CPU as well.

However, to get 100%x4 processor, I started opening nVidia demo (like Time Machine, Lula, etc., windowed), after demo until I had CPU at capacity.

baseline temp is 26/35 deg C (2-6% on 1,2,3, or 4 cores)
at 100% load 50/58 deg C

I had swapped the AMD hsf to Zalman 9500 with artic silver.

I've heard of cooler configurations before especially with a faster GPU and other hsf.

I don't think I want to push temp1 or tjunction or Core beyond 60 deg.

I have now heard a range of max temps... 60-115.... I'll feel more secure with 60 as max.

I am please that it did run 3.0ghz without much change in core Vid's, though.
 10/05/2008 04:45 PM
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aj9950
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Sorry, hit reply, twice.
 10/05/2008 07:14 PM
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CodeRedDewd
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You don't need to run all those applications, plus if you do, you don't know if you get a single error. If you run Prime95, or the Intel Burn Test, both of which you can download for free will test your overclock to make sure you have no hardware errors, and it will max out all of your cores. that's the best way. Mine is at 3.4 and stable. I tested it with both of those programs I mentioned. It gets up to 58degC, which I don't think is that bad...
 10/05/2008 08:06 PM
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Adam F
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best over all way is to game for a wile.
 10/05/2008 08:22 PM
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aj9950
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I ran the Prime95. Same results at 3 ghz. Temp readings are still 50/58 deg C at 100%x4. I still think involving your GPU at 100% is a better test than the benchmark and torture programs, because GPU is so crucial to high graphic intense applications for your CPU, mainly games and video editing. Most I've read and hear from people at forum and stuff, CPU temperature also depends on the GPU they have as well and vice versa (GPU temperature affected by CPU).

seems stable enough, though at the current configuration. I may increase it to 3.1 here soon. I still haven't heard a good resource and argument of cranking your temp past 60 deg. This MSI board (K9N2G-Neo) doesn't have a temp shut off setting like my previous ASUS board. They usually start at 55 deg and up.

... all of this, of course is beyond necessity because I'm pretty happy with the Phenom at 3.0 Ghz. I haven't had any real program really pushing to capacity yet.
 10/05/2008 09:03 PM
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CodeRedDewd
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You're running 50C no load? I'm at 41 with my V cranked up to 1.425 and 3.4Ghz, and we have the same load temp and I'm 400Mhz higher too. It sounds like you would benefit from a bigger cooler, easily.

As far as programs pushing your processor... Just because you're not at 100% doesn't mean that you won't benefit. It doesn't work like this. ---Geez, I'm getting close to 100% capacity, so I need to overclock to bring the percentage down.--- I think it has to do with the load, and at higher clock speeds, it will do that load faster. Big difference with mine loading Windows from 2.6 to 3.4Ghz. Maybe what people are finding is that when running graphic intensive programs, it gives the CPU something else to do besides calculations that Prime95 do, so it may get hotter. That's what I meant by the Intel Burn Test. It's suppose to do more stuff and be a more intense 100% than Prime95. I ran both tests at the same time without a problem. Prime was slower, but the temp never went above the Intel program. I really don't know how it works, so that may not have been good way to test anything, but I tried it anyway. No matter what I do, I can't get the temp above 61C, even with the voltage maxed out for my mobo at 1.55V. It just won't boot at 3.5Ghz and it's not worth the trouble to change all the multipliers, so I can change the FSB to squeeze a little more out than 3.4.

If you want to test your GPU, you need something that will test for artifacts, like the ATITool. You can OC it with that and test the result at the same time. You can even let it find the max core and mem clocks for you.

I'm just saying that I didn't notice much temp increase from 2.6 to 3.4 because all I did was increase the frequency. The voltage affects wattage the most I believe. You'll probably be safe to set your multiplier up to 16 at preset V, then see what your temps are. I would probably cut it back if it gets close to 70C, but that's just because of how hot my AMD laptop runs. 70C is nothing. Running it at max load, it get's up to 87C, and I have put it in my backpack by accident with it in sleep mode, instead of hybernate, and it doesn't crash until 99C or so, because I've looked at the logfiles CoreTemp creates. Maybe the architecture is different, but seeing those temps without any problems, I don't worry about 60C so much, and I've never damaged anything except an old Matrox G200 video card I overclocked by checking "enable hardware damaging", then accidentally maxing out the gamma by letting the mouse leave the box while dragging the diagonal line. It burned out like a light bulb.

58C may be hot to some people, but I don't worry until the upper 60s.
 10/05/2008 09:08 PM
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CodeRedDewd
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I made a mistake here----> "I didn't notice much temp increase from 2.6 to 3.4 because all I did was increase the frequency"

I meant to say 3.2, because that was my initial OC
 10/06/2008 05:41 PM
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aj9950
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I went upto 3.1 Ghz. Surprising thing happened. 2/4 cores shut down on Prime95 due to fatal error within seconds. Temperature hadn't even peaked yet. Windows loaded fine and everything.

I'm back down to 3.0 Ghz. I'm not sure if it was due to RAM error or pure CPU error.

Somehow, my configuration isn't so stable past 3.0 Ghz.
 10/06/2008 10:33 PM
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CodeRedDewd
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So all you've done is bump up the multiplier? If 2 cores quit, you can bump up the voltage one notch and it will probably clear up. Are we running the same proc? The Phenom 9950 Agena? It seems you're proc isn't doing so well on the OC. It seems I must either gotten really lucky, or there are some other factors. I have OCZ Platinum ram, and the M3N-HT Deluxe mobo.
 10/06/2008 11:50 PM
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aj9950
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I do think it's the voltage concern. It might be running so hot because it won't let me manually adjust the voltage.

Rig setup:

9950 BE 140W Agena
MSI K9N2G-Neo
GSkill 2x2GB 800Mhz 5-5-5-15
Zotac 8800 GT OC


Under the bios, the voltage for CPU is grayed out as [auto].
I can't change that. But underneath it is a Core V offset. As I was increasing the multiplier, I was increasing the offset. I thought that CPUID was reading it wrong because in under the BIOS, the voltage would increase, but when I let windows load, it's alwasy the same 1.050 V at the 6.5x then only goes up to 1.300 V at the 15x (the cool and quiet setting)... even at 16x the voltage only remain 1.300V.

If I look under that BIOS voltage reading I've had it up to 1.405. Windows must somehow kick it down. Probably why my OC is only allowing me to upto 3.0 stable. I still haven't found how to get the BIOS to get off the AUTO and set my own voltages, like the ASUS and Biostar boards I have used before.

It does allow me to jack up the memory voltage up to 3 volt?!? though.
 10/09/2008 03:15 AM
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Superhal
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AOD = AMD OverDrive.

-------------------------

9750 X4 // 8600 GT // PC-6400 DDR2 800 mhz 1gig X 2 // WD 500 GB SATA HD // 580w PSU // Core Contact Freezer w/ IC Diamond 7 // DVD-RW // Win XP 32 bit // CPU-Z Validation #420180
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