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Topic Title: K6-2 350MHz Upgrade to K6-2 500MHz
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Created On: 05/10/2004 03:03 AM
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 05/10/2004 03:03 AM
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120moses
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Posts: 5
Joined: 05/05/2004

I have an AOpen system utilizing a K6-2 350MHZ CPU and want to upgrade to a K6-2 500MHz if possible. My motherboard is an AOpen AX59Pro Version 1.4 with an updated BIOS that should support the 500MHz. The voltage options on the motherboard should also support the 500MHz. The motherboard has two VIA chips listed as follows:

VT82C598MVP
9833CE
13G071000

VTC586B
S7-5B

Can I upgrade to a K6-2 500MHz CPU?

If so, what AMD CPU do I need?

I tried to identify the number on my current CPU but the heat sink will not seperate from the CPU so it can be ID'd. The CPU does have 321 Pins.

I downloaded and used CPUINFO which ID'd my current CPU as follows:

AMD K6™ 3D Processor
Authentic AMD
Speed: 350MHz
L1 Data Cache: 32KB
L1 Inst Cache: 32KB
L2 Cache: Not Reported
Family.Mode.Step 5.8.12
MMX: Yes
3D Now! ™: Yes

Thanks in advance for your help.
 05/10/2004 04:27 AM
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-Milt-
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Posts: 1722
Joined: 03/15/2004

120moses,

If your AOpen AX59Pro Version 1.4 will support a K6-2 500, then it will also support the K6-2 550, which was the fastest 'stock' core speed that the K6 series ever went.
That was the 'fastest', but the 'best' for all-around performance ( especially when overclocked), was the K6-3+ 450, but that's if you can find one on e-bay at a reasonable price.
The K6-3 450 (non '+' ) was also an extremely good performer, but was not very good for overclocking.
The main advantage that any of the K6-3 versions offered was the addition of 256K of on-die L2 cache, running at the same speed as the CPU.
The K6-2 versions did not have any L2 cache, only L1

Does your AX59Pro have controls in the CMOS for the FSB and multipliers, or is that done via jumpers on the mobo itself?
I have a K6-2 300 here, installed in a mobo similar to yours (same Via chipset), but made by Epox.
I have mine cranked up to 400 MHz, by simply moving one jumper from 3.0x to 4.0x


-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 05/10/2004 05:28 PM
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120moses
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Milt:

Thanks for your help.

My AX59Pro has jumper setting on the motherboard for voltages and multipliers.
I'm not sure about the CMOS controls. What do I need to look for within CMOS? I have an Award BIOS with many options. Most options are pretty simple to figure out. Others, I'm not knowledgable enough to understand.

My PC does uses PC100 memory, so I assume the bus speed is 100MHz.

According to some old notes I have, my motherboard will not support a (+) CPU.

Reguarding the CPU's you recommended, do you have any specifics (i.e. 500AFX, 450XXX, etc.)? I've found a few K6-2 400/500 CPUs on e-Bay. Most are K6-2 500AFX. Will these work?

I'll have to look for the K6-3's.

Thanks again,

120moses
 05/10/2004 06:46 PM
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-Milt-
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120moses

According to the "K6-2+/K6-III+ CPU Motherboard Compatibility List" on http://www.computeradjusters.com/' ">http://www.computeradjusters.com/ your AOpen AX59Pro WILL support the '+' series of CPUs, IF you use BIOS version R2.35 or newer.
That site also sells the K6-3+ CPUs, but their prices are sky-high... like $139.00 US for a K6-3+ 550, but where else are you going to find one?
E-bay is your only hope. Just keep checking... they do come up for bid occassionally.

There's lots of good info on the above site, and lots more on this one...
http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/J.Steunebrink/k6plus.htm' ">http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/J.Steunebrink/k6plus.htm

If you have jumpers on your mobo for both voltage and multiplier, then it's highly unlikely that there will be anything in CMOS to adjust those values.
The best guide I've come accross to explain the different CMOS settings, is this one...
http://www.rojakpot.com/default.aspx?location=1' ">http://www.rojakpot.com/default.aspx?location=1

The K6-2 500AFX will work, but if I were you I'd do a little more research before plunking down your hard earned cash.
i.e. If it appears that your AOpen AX59Pro WILL support the '+' series of CPUs(and it does to me), then the K6-2'+' series will work as well, and it has some L2 cache on it (64K, I believe)... not as much as the K6-3 ('+' or 'non +' but still better than the 'regular' K6-2

The main advantage of the '+' series is that they are built on the newer, smaller core, and consequently require less VCore voltage to run at 'rated' speeds, and so because of that lower VCore voltage, they run cooler... and will overclock better.

They also offer the advatage of allowing you to change the multiplier, within Windows, while it's running... i.e. you can boot at 3.0x100 = 300, and then after loading into Windows, 'bump up' the multi, from 3.0x to 6.0x100 = 600 MHz
Enough said?


-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 05/13/2004 03:38 AM
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120moses
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Thanks to all for your help.

A couple of points I guess I should have made in the beginning.
1. I really don’t want to overclock any CPU. I purchased this PC new. It's in excellent shape and I don’t want to do anything that might damage it. Besides, I don’t have enough PC savvy to overclock anything other than wrist watch.

2. The primary reason for upgrading to a faster CPU is to accomodate a new program that requires a 500MHz CPU minimum.

After a lot of research on the web, it appears my AX59Pro Revision 1.40 motherboard will support at least a K6-III 400MHz (maybe even a K6-III 450MHz) but not any K6-2+ or K6-III+ CPUs. The following is what I know for sure.

My Award BIOS is Version 2.35 and it will support the K6-III.

My motherboard options for various CPUs are:

Voltage Settings
Single Vcore voltages - 3.3V, 3.45V, & 3.52V
Dual Vcore voltages - 2.2V, 2.4V, 2.8V, 2.9V, & 3.2V

CPU Frequency Settings
1.5X, 2X, 2.5X, 3X, 3.5X, 4X, 4.5X, 5X, & 5.5X

CPU Clock Settings
66MHz, 75MHz, 83MHz, 95MHz, 100MHZ, 112MHz, and 124MHz.
Note: AOpen does not recommend using 112MHz & 124MHz.


According to the CPU chart at AMD’s web site listed below, a K6-III 400MHz CPU can be used with my motherboard.

http://www.amd.com/us-en/K6_Item/0,2742,248,00.html' ">http://www.amd.com/us-en/K6_Item/0,2742,248,00.html

My question is: “Can a K6-III 450Mhz also be used?” Based on everything I’ve read thus far, it appears the only difference between the two is the Frequency Setting (4X vs. 4.5X).

The K6-III 450AHX requires a 2.4V-core and a 3.3V I/O. The K6-III 450AFX requires a 2.2V-core and a 3.3V I/O. Can either CPU be used?

Thanks in advance for any additional help and recommendations.

120moses
 05/13/2004 09:00 AM
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Wildcard
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Not detracting from Milt's solution, but you shouldn't have any problems running either of those CPU's - ideally the 2.2v version. But you sure pay through the nose for them.

Had a K6-III 400(2.4v) running at 448MHz on a 112MHz bus, requiring a Vcore of 2.6v and a better cooler but it ran in the end. So as you can see, these chips run pretty close to their limits. The extra FSB and core speeds won't be of interest to you I don't think, seeing as you'd prefer to steer clear of overclocking - but they do make for a noticeable change in speed because the FSB, memory, CPU core and L2 cache speeds are all increased. There is generally an increase in AGP/PCI speeds when you do this, but most modern hardware can handle it.

AKASA make some pretty decent cooling solutions at very affordable prices - using their AK795 for my setup.

-------------------------
. AMD CPU Data: http://www.tomshardware.com/20.../amd...ult/page23.html & http://www.amdboard.com/amdid.html
. Belarc Advisor: http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html
. GPU Comparison for Laptops: <a href="http://www.notebookche
 05/13/2004 03:12 PM
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-Milt-
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120moses,

Always remember, when looking at the 'Minimum System Requirements' for any GAME, that the game manufacturer wants to SELL these games to anybody it can, so those 'Minimum System Requirements' means that the game will RUN, but you may have to 'dumb it down' by running it at low res with all the graphic details like fog, textures, etc. turned Off
But, it WILL run, so they weren't lying about it. But it won't necessarily run well.

If it's gaming performance you are after, then a better video card is definitely the way to go.

However, if it's raw number crunching that you want, then an overclocked K6-3+ 450 will do wonders for your confuser.
And any K6-2/3+ 450 WILL RUN just fine on your mobo... READ this link, please...
http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/J.Steunebrink/k6plus.htm' ">http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/J.Steunebrink/k6plus.htm

Here are three examples of my Asus P5A mobo (a similar mobo to your AOpen AX59Pro, but uses the Ali Magic chipset)
This first is with a K6-2 500, slightly overclocked to 525 MHz...

Note the CPU Mark 99 score of 30.6, just above.

Next is the same mobo, running at exactly the same speed, but this time with a K6-3+ 450 overclocked to the same 525 MHz...

That's a 27% increase from the K6-2 500, at the exact same settings, on the same motherboard

Finally, here's the same mobo, but this time with the K6-3+ 450 overclocked to 575 MHz...

Now we're talking a 82% increase from the K6-2 500, at the overclocked settings!

The test I used is called "CPU Mark 99"
This is a small (204 KB), very fast ( ~ 30 seconds), and reasonably accurate measure of your processor and memory combination.
It is available near the bottom of my M810L BIOS page, here...
http://www.freewebs.com/milt/P...810L...L_BIOS_Page.htm' ">http://www.freewebs.com/milt/P...ps_M810L_BIOS_Page.htm

The K6-III 400 or the K6-III 450 (either 2.2v or 2.4v) can also be used on your mobo.
The 2.2v version of the K6-III 450 would be the more desirable of the two, IF you can find one.
There were also a few K6-III 500s made, but they are rare as hen's teeth, and the chances of finding one of them today are slim to nil.

But I still believe that your best price/performance purchase would be with a K6-2+ 550, like this one, for $34.50 US...
http://www.jlmtech.net/catalog...php?...gular_Deal_257&' ">http://www.jlmtech.net/catalog...name=Regular_Deal_257&
IT WILL RUN ON YOUR MOBO at the 2.2v setting and 5.5x 100MHz

-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 05/14/2004 07:47 PM
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120moses
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Thanks for your help Wildcard and Milt.

I have to tell you this has been a real education. But, I still don’t feel comfortable with what I’m doing, so I have another question.

Would a K6-III 450MHz be a better choice than the K6-2+ 550MHz due to the additional 256KB L2 Cache offered by the K6-III?

The new program I mentioned earlier is not a game. The program is Nero Express Version 5.5 which came with a new CDRW I purchased. All of the program features work OK on my 350MHZ but it is slow and occasionally it will not start. Unfortunately, the literature on the CDRW packaging defined the minimum system requirements as 200MHz. I discovered the 500MHz requirement in the Nero help files after installing the program.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

120Moses
 05/14/2004 09:56 PM
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-Milt-
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120moses,

That's a difficult call, but my guess would be that the extra 100 MHz of the K6-2+ 550 would more than make up for the extra 192K of L2 cache on the K6-3 450

The main problem with the K6-3 450 would be actually finding one, at any price.
They never gained a popular following because initially they were almost twice the price of their K6-2 equivalents.
There was no question that they were much better performers, clock for clock, but most people can't see past that "MHz" number, so they didn't sell well because of the price differential.
And AMD stopped making them 4 or 5 years ago. The K6+ series is newer.

Since it would seem that your present K6-2 350 MHz is almost adequate at the moment, but runs Nero a little slow, why not just speed up your 350 to 392 by moving one jumper.
If that helps, then you'll know that you are really close, and it may be possible to further speed it up to 434 or even 450 MHz.
If you do this 'overclocking' in these small steps, there is little or no risk of damaging anything.
It is only when some kid comes along and decides to 'go-for-the-gold' and crank it straight to 450 MHz and 2.8 volts (or 2.9 volts), and then can't understand why his CPU fried because of excess heat.
And make no mistake, it's the heat that shortens the life of ANY electronic component, not the volts.

So my suggestion to you would be to simply move your "CPU Clock Setting" jumper from it's current 100MHZ to the 112MHz position.
It's only a 12% increase in speed, but it may be all you need.
The only way to know for sure is to try it.

-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 06/02/2004 02:19 AM
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120moses
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Thanks to everyone for your help.

I've decided to upgrade my CPU and have managed to find a new K6-2 500MHz with a 2.2 Core Voltage and a used K6-III 450MHz with a 2.4 Core Voltage on eBay. Each cost less than $14.00 is guaranteed to work. The K6-III comes with a Heatsink/Fan.

Which of these two CPUs would you recommend?

Thanks in advance for any additional help.

120Moses
 06/02/2004 02:41 AM
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-Milt-
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The K6-3 450 will run circles around the K6-2 500

Wanna sell it at a profit? I'll buy it for $25.00 and you'll have an almost free K6-2 500 !
The K6-3 won't overclock worth beans, but it doesn't matter

-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
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