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Topic Title: Asus K7m-rm w/ amd 750 T-Bird Model 4
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Created On: 08/06/2004 09:44 AM
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 12/11/2004 11:20 PM
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-Milt-
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Hi Charlie,

You are giving CBID a really tough question there.
You've got a Barton, no question about that because of the CPUID of 6-10-0, and also the 512K of L2 cache.
Nothing but a Barton has those numbers.
But, all Desktop Bartons run on a 166.6 MHz FSB
And desktop BIOSes just don't 'know' about 'Notebook' or 'Mobile' processors. They don't know they even exist.
And even if they did, the BIOS for your board was never informed that anything faster than a XP 2600+ T-bred 'B', with L2=256K and 16.0x 133MHz = 2133MHz, CPUID = 6-8-1, even existed.

So howinthehell is it supposed to figure out what a Barton, running at 100.89 MHz, with a 14.0 multiplier, is supposed to actually BE?

If you want the "CPU String" to accurately reflect what you actually have in there, you can change that line on the "Tweaks" page of CBID.
Like, here's my 1700+ T-bred 'A' running at 8.5x 200 = 1700 MHz
If you change the "CPU String" in CBID, and then open WCPUID, the change is shown in the "Name String"

Check my CPU temp in the shot above... that's for real!

-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 12/13/2004 11:21 AM
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rogvalcox
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Ok here goes nothing, i'm gonna shut down and try the wire trick. I watched the temp in the bios earlier and it seemed to hover right at 42 deg. C. So I might not be able to keep it cool enough to keep it like this but hopefully I will be back momentarily with results!!

Wish me luck!!!!

BRB I Hope...lol
 12/13/2004 12:20 PM
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rogvalcox
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WOW...amazingly enough I did it without rying myself or the system.

Below is the new screen shot. I was only able to get it up to 143, but hey that's more than what it was. When I bought this cpu I just simply picked out the one that was the cheapest and significantly better than the sytem that I had before!! I knew I wasn't getting the lastest and greatest, and besides that I was itching to build a system from absolute scrap for a new challenge for myself, and MOST unfortunately my wife would only allow me a couple hundred dollars for my project.

Ok enough with the testimonial, I've got what i've got and i'm still learning new things every day!! So let me know what your impression of this outcome was and get back to me with what you think.

Is Charlie22911 still hanging around? I was curious if maybe he would be interested in tutoring me on what kind of tweaking can be done with this DDR Ram on this particular mobo?

Curious to see what you think!!
TTYL

 12/13/2004 12:57 PM
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rogvalcox
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I was taking a stroll through memory lane, and I noticed a mention on the second page right after where you posted an image of the my new motherboard. I was just curious about, I think it was hawk that said something about some inderect friends that had this board and was interested to see how I make out with it. What are some of the aggravations that they had with this particular model?

Hope that didn't come across as horse s**t!! I am just curious what kind of problems that might have caused that statement????

Buy the way if you are still interested the measurements on the actual circuit board itself are as follows: 30.5 cm X 19 cm. That is my physically measuring it, not the specs in the book etc.
 12/13/2004 01:49 PM
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rogvalcox
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Well after playing around on the comp for about an hour, it started to go haywire. While trying to get it restarted, I kept getting this error that it couldn't find the file isass.exe, which I can't find this file ANYWHERE to see what exactly it is, and then it would shut down and attempt to restart. So naturallly I went into the bios and set everything at the failsafe defaults. Everything started just fine, but now I can only get it up to 141 instead 143 which obviously isn't good. However, I watched the cpu temp in the bios and it never goes above 49. I have the emergency shutdown at 60 which is the lowest possible setting. What is the optimal running temp while doing some heavy applications? (ofcourse keeping in mind that we are overclocked) And what is considered boiling point for this cpu?

Anyway here are the new results. Slowly counting down.

 12/13/2004 03:36 PM
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-Milt-
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Hi Roger,

I think I warned you about that Palomino 2100+ of yours being the worst Socket 'A' CPU for overclocking that AMD ever produced, as you are finding out.
The run HOT right from the factory, and even hotter when overclocked, and more so when overvolted and yours is both now.

It's the Vcore that will raise the power consumption. And power = heat, and heat is our enemy.
It's the temperature that shortens the life of any electronic component, not the voltage. (within reason, of course)
And, as the core speed of any CPU goes up, it becomes less and less 'temperature tolerant'.
I think this is what you were experiencing when "it started to go haywire"
My own personal "This is getting too hot to be expecting any reliability temperature" is in the 53° ~ 55° Celsius range.
The general 'rule-of-thumb' is that for every 10°C that you can lower the temp, you will DOUBLE the life expectancy.

You need some kind of software to monitor your CPU temperature (while running programs in Windows) because when you are looking at the CPU temp in CMOS the CPU is not 'working' at all... it's basically 'idling'
On my own M848A v2.1 I use SpeedFan from http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php' ">http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php
for temperature and voltage information.
On my PCChips M848ALU...
Temp1 will always be MY CPU Temp, and
Temp2 will show a constant, bogus, 127°C
Temp3 will show a constant, bogus, 64 ~ 66°C.
HD0 Temp is, I believe, my Hard Drive temp, if the HD has an internal temp sensor.
This 'assignment' of temp #s varies from mobo to mobo... so always compare SpeedFan's values with what's in your CMOS... your CMOS always tells 'the Gospel truth'

In order to determine if it is heat tat is causing your problems when running overclocked, try pulling one side off of your case, and just set up a small desk fan blowing cool air directly into the box.
See if that helps to extend the length of time before the system starts to go haywire, and please let us know what you find out.

If it helps, then you'll immediately KNOW that it's a heat related problem, and now it's just a question of 'Which component?', and 'What can we do about it?'.
This is the 'quick & cheap & dirty way' to find out if something is getting too hot.
But it WORKS like a charm!


There are many easy, and inexpensive, ways to cool things down, if that's what's needed, and I believe that it is.

Lapping your current HS is one, and it's usually good for a 3 to 5° Celsius drop in CPU temps... just ask, if you need more instructions...
http://www.themodfathers.jolt....age=...on=show&id=6153' ">http://www.themodfathers.jolt....e=&action=show&id=6153

Using the Arctic Silver paste, (if you aren't already), as a TIM (Thermal Interface Material) is good for another 3 to 5°C drop in CPU temps.
http://www.arcticsilver.com/index.html' ">http://www.arcticsilver.com/index.html

Just arranging your ribbon cables (with wire ties), so that they don't obstruct the air flow to the CPU is another.

And here's a $5 'cooling solution', that really works!
You cut a hole in the side panel to draw cool air from outside to cool your CPU.
Details can be found here... http://superfan.freewebspace.com/' ">http://superfan.freewebspace.com/


When it comes to case ventilation, it is much more important to get the hot air out, than to blow cool air in.
There are lots of air inlet points at the bottom, and particularly at the bottom front, of ANY case.
It's getting the hot air out of the case that's so difficult.

A single, large, exhaust fan (or two smaller ones, side by side), at the very top of the case is the best solution, but that requires that you somehow cut a hole in the very top of the case yourself.
Grolschie's instructions can be found here...
http://radel.inet.net.nz/vents.html' ">http://radel.inet.net.nz/vents.html

And here's how a friend in England did the above...
http://www.rhcf.com/sis-bin/ul....cgi...15;t=000088;p=2' ">http://www.rhcf.com/sis-bin/ul...opic;f=15;t=000088;p=2

I can't understand why case manufactures won't put a nice round 80mm or 90mm hole, with a simple chrome grill covering it, at the top center of their case.
This would allow the hot air inside the case to rise, by simple convection, and exit through the hole.
It just makes too much sense, I guess!

Second best is a single exhaust fan at the back of the case, just below the PSU.


Or, just buy a better CPU HS/F, and if you prefer cool AND quiet, then go to watercooling.

Here's a couple of inexpensive solutions, both from Newegg.com, first, for $10.99...
http://www.newegg.com/app/View...esc....epa=0§ion=3' ">http://www.newegg.com/app/View...6-603&depa=0§ion=3


And for just a little more ($14.99), here's one that a friend just bought two of, and he's happily running his 2200+ Barton Mobile at 3200+ speeds...
http://www.newegg.com/app/View...esc....-103-143&depa=0' ">http://www.newegg.com/app/View...tion=35-103-143&depa=0


Below this point we are no longer in the 'cheap & easy' solutions... this stuff gets expensive!

The fan I like, and want to try, but haven't yet, (one is on it's way and should be here soon), is the CoolerMaster AERO4 Lite...
I like the concept of using the 'Squirrel Cage' type blower... there is no 'hole' in the center, where the CPU core is actually located, that is blocked by the fan's motor (as it IS, when using any 'normal' fan).

It's available here in Canada with a low-medium-high fan speed switch, for $24.99 CAD, or about $20 US from...
http://66.201.221.249/Itemdesc.asp?CartId=

Combine the above with any 1/2 decent, solid copper, thin-fin, heatsink, like the one below, and you'll have a winner!

ThermalrightSLK900A... $46.99 from Newegg... http://www.newegg.com/app/view...esc....-109-011&depa=1' ">http://www.newegg.com/app/view...tion=35-109-011&depa=1



-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 12/14/2004 01:00 AM
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JHawk56
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QUOTE (rogvalcox @ Dec 13 2004, 11:57 AM) I think it was hawk that said something about some inderect friends that had this board and was interested to see how I make out with it. What are some of the aggravations that they had with this particular model?
Hi Roger,

Let me expand on my earlier post. I have spent a great deal of time cross-referencing the boards in the ECS/PCCHIPS family, and I've found that your Syntax SV266AD is also sold as:
PCCHIPS M811' ">http://pcchipsusa.com/prod-m811luv31.asp
ECS K7VTA2 Pro' ">http://www.ecsusa.com/products/k7vta2_pro.html
Shuttle AK32VN' ">http://us.shuttle.com/specs.asp?pro_id=310

I've conversed with one guy who claims CPU-Z identifies his SV266AD as an M811!

The PCCHIPS M811 has to be one of the best-selling motherboards today. Newegg has sold them for about $30, shipped, for several months. Judging from the number of new members with them at The PCChips Lottery BBS' ">http://www.stud.fernuni-hagen....bin/ibrd/ikonboard.cgi, where Milt and I are active, they have to be just flying out of Newegg, TigerDirect and other vendors.

The greatest number of new inquiries at the Lottery lately are from M811 buyers, but I think that just reflects their sheer numbers. At the time of my earlier post, many of the inquiries were about the CMOS jumper being set to "Clear" at the factory, and the FSB jumper being mislabeled in the manuals, or at least some of them. There are the usual problems of weak power supply, inadequate cooling, and cheap generic RAM that affect all motherboards (and aren't really motherboard problems at all).

One issue emerging lately is getting the board to run at 133FSB. Often this is due to the same issues (power supply, cooling, memory), but a few cases appear to be specific to this model. The owners have gone through some odd sequences of steps to finally get the board to run properly with 133FSB, but Milt seems to have boiled it down to using manual settings in the BIOS rather than "Auto." We still don't have a handle on it, for certain. But since you are running fine at 133 (and beyond), I would not be concerned by it.

Naturally, most owners who ask at the Lottery are having problems. Few drop in to introduce themselves and say what a great mobo it is. That's true of any motherboard. But a more balanced view may be the M811 customer reviews at Newegg' ">http://secure.newegg.com/app/C...DEPA=0&item=13-185-010. Most report an easy-to-use, stable motherboard.

Oh, and thanks for the dimensions. Those match the other 3 brands. Syntax shows incorrect dimensions (305mm x 244mm) on their product web page' ">http://www.syntaxgroups.com/ca...h=44_47&products_id=95.

John



-------------------------
My ECS/PCCHIPS/Amptron PCs<br>ASRock K7VM2
 12/14/2004 09:38 AM
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rogvalcox
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Thank's John

I appreciate you elaborating on that for me!! Like I said, I wasn't trying to be pushy but I was just curious what you were coming from.

I really didn't have too many problems setting up the board. I also sat down and read every stinkin word and cross referenced any pics in the book with the board before I even thought about starting, being that this was the first time i've installed a motherboard from scratch. That just killed me too being that i'm the typical guy that thinks he has to try and figure it out without looking at the manuel!! The only confusions I had was the hooking up of the front panel of the case, the jumpers on the motherboard and the connections on the case wires weren't labeled the same as the jumpers on the mobo, and some connections there were extra of or not enough. For example: The extra usb ports on the board had 10 pins and the wires on the case only had 5 wires per usb port. And the fact that the usb headers on the board were labeled USB2 and in the book it's labeled USB3, fortunately i'm a logical thinker and I don't take anything for face value and I was able to figure most of it out, then trial and error took care of the rest. One thing that I don't like is the fact that I can't hook up the power led lights because of the header on the board not matching the connector on the case.

Enough rambling about something that this forum has nothing to do with.

-MILT-

I have the thermaltake fan with the speedcontrol. I personally love the squirrel cage type blower. I would live to have a watercooling system, but I think I will wait until they come down a little in price!! If I get too carried away on trying to make this cpu do more than it's supposed to, I might as well take that money and invest it in a better cpu, unfortunately this board I think only supports up to XP 2600, according to the specs page at tigerdirect.

The following link is the exact board I got At tigerdirect.

Tigerdirect' ">http://www.tigerdirect.com/app...dpNo=146912&CatId=1126
 12/14/2004 12:53 PM
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JHawk56
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Roger,

You weren't pushy at all. I'd want to know what others were experiencing with my mobo too. And I understand why one might think I was alluding to loads of problems with this mobo, as sort of an inside joke with Milt. Actually the joke is that, once you get involved with PCCHIPS mobos, you keep finding the same ones under different brands and models. Knowing what they are all is a keen interest of mine, as Milt knows but you would not have, at the time.

Like I said, we have seen plenty of problem posts, but that reflects the popularity of the mobo. And I forgot to mention, many of them fall into the "RTFM" ("Read The Fffffantastic Manual") category.

You on the other hand did read the manual and saw its limitations. A nice thing about building boards that have so many clones is, you can pick which manual to use. I sometimes refer PCCHIPS builders to the ECS manual, since it is often more detailed, particularly about the onboard connections. In your case, the Syntax manual is the ECS manual, so it could have been worse. At least the ECS/Syntax manuals provide descriptions of the functions of the pins on the front panel connector, rather than just a table like PCCHIPS, and make it clear that "MSG LED" is the same as "Power / Sleep LED" rather than leaving you to figure out what the heck "MSG LED" means.

I am going to start referring first-time builders to the Shuttle manual' ">http://global.shuttle.com/Down...ad_File.asp?Item=AK32V. This one provides detailed DIY instructions.

I know what you mean about the pins on the mobo not always matching your case connectors. Is the problem with the power LED that you have 2 pins on the mobo but a 3-pin connector, with the center position empty? If so, you can pull out one of the wires and insert it into the center position of the connector, or cut the connector in half, rotate the two halves so that the rough edges just hang out into open air, and connect them to the pins. I hope I explained that well.

Thanks for the TigerDirect link. The pictures there and at TigerDirect's M811LU page' ">http://www.tigerdirect.com/app...=1044776&sku=P459-2000 are among the resources I used to cross-reference those mobos. SV266AD is on the left, M811LU on the right:


By the way, I actually saw one of those Cooler Master Aero 7 Lites the other day. They're huge! But I think they're cool too. Can't wait to hear what Milt thinks of his when it arrives.

John

-------------------------
My ECS/PCCHIPS/Amptron PCs<br>ASRock K7VM2
 12/30/2004 07:23 PM
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Charlie22911
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hey guys, i just bought some cas 2.5 512Mb pc3200 kingmax ram running in my system at 150Mhz fsb (300Mhz DDR) at cas 2 with the most aggresive timings my bios will allow, its very speedy too!
rogvalcox, i think i can help you with your ddr timings. just let me know, i havnt been very active because my system is not on the web and my gramps dont like me on his computer now that i have one. the temp in my room is around 20*C because i keep my door shut and there is no heater in there and i have sliding glass doors to the outside , so my case temp is exactly 20*C and stays that no matter how long it runs and cpu at 2.1Ghz from 1.6Ghz and overvolted runs 38*C. i have two artic cooling fans in my case one in the bottom back blowing air in and one in the top blowing air out then two PSU fans sucking air out of the top of the case blowing air out.
BTW, milt, i modded the PCI slots so i could put in a case fan, no cutting don though, but i did cut out the top fan grill because those tiny holes were cutting air flow so bad i could barly feel air from them but not no more .

rogvalcox, be careful because the 'thin fin' heatsinks tend to trap dust and need cleaning, my heatsink has a nice layer of dust with dog hairs in it . i need to clean it out because the low case temps are probly the only thing that keeps my cpu at 38*C, i rember it used to be lower...

-------------------------
Desktop:
Phenom II x6 1055T @ 4GHz | 4x2GB Patriot DDR3 1600 @ 2000 | 3x AMD Radeon HD6970 Crossfire

Laptop:
Core i7 2960xm @ 4.2Ghz | 4x4GB Kingston DDR3 1866 | 2x GTX 580m SLI OC 725/1450/1500
 01/10/2005 06:31 PM
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rogvalcox
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Well i'm back again.

after running the computer for awhile with the new modifictions, I decided to take it back to it's original specs. The longer it run with the modifications under it's belt, the more unstable it seemed to become. I'm just going to wait until I can afford to upgrade again. However, My Dad gve me his webpage, some design software, and an old laptop, to teach myself how to do webdesign. Hopefully, that will keep me passified of not getting stir cray during the recovery of second back surgery. Enough of my self pitty story . What i'm getting at, is that, I was hoping that, Milt, Charlie, Eddaweaver, or whoever else, is more firmiliar than I with the physical construction of the Toshiba Satellite laptops. The reason I ask is because the "a" and "z" keys do not work. I know you can replace the keyboard, but not only do I like to try to fix things, but I don't have the money right now. I did take the keyboard out and blew it out, with the hope that there would be a way to fix it, and that's when i noticed that it was basically two very thin sheets of aluminum or some sort of metal laminated together with the mechanics in between, and no apparent way to take it apart. So then i took the actual keys off the top and appears as though there are little suction cups between the key and the actual board, Very unlike the typical calculator that i've taken apart before. It doesn't have the little siver bubbles on the top of the circuit board that the keys actually pop in and out. Does this all make sense or do I need to check myself into a home? LOL....also is there any way to breath new life into a worn out laptop battery?

If there is a better forum for me to move to please let me know. I don't want to make anyone mad for my wandering off the beaten path. You guy's have all been a great help.....I hate to leave your company!!!!
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