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Topic Title: Should I upgrade Compaq Presario 5461?
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Created On: 02/18/2005 04:09 PM
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 01/22/2007 07:33 AM
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KachiWachi
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I would tend to agree.

I run W2K on my system (see my sig)...and it runs acceptably.

-------------------------
KachiWachi

Moderator - Wim's BIOS

CPU #1 - DFI 586IPVG, K6-2/+ 450 (Cyrix MII 433), 128MB EDO. BIOS patched by Jan Steunebrink.
CPU #2 - Amptron PM-7900 (M520), i200 non-MMX, 128MB EDO
CPU #3 - HP8766C, PIII-667, 768MB SDRAM
CPU #4 - ASUS P3V4X, PIII-733, 256MB SDRAM
CPU #5 - ??? ;)
 01/30/2007 12:43 PM
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techmate37
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quote:

Originally posted by: go_for
Does the BIOS and other diagnostics programs(eg Everest, cbid, cpu-z) indicate the L2 cache in use, if it has such? (dunno what proc you have in there but some K6's seem to miss seeing the cache after BIOS updates, so a clear CMOS is needed at least).



go_for,
Thanks, you are correct: there is no L2 cache (determined by CheckitPE). Btw: the processor is a K63D/500MHz. OK, so I should try clearing the CMOS, but how? I read in another forum that clearing by removing the lithium batt is not how--instead, there should be a jumper for this on the 5461. But I don't have the motherboard manual... Can you recommend where to look for this jumper? Or could you recommend where I can find this info?




 01/30/2007 01:16 PM
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techmate37
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[quote name='tld33' date='Jan 20 2007, 09:54 PM' post='1364077551']

Hi tld33,
Thanks for emerging to respond to this old thread! Per a number of responses, I've concluded that XP is too much of a resource hog for this machine. So I found a cheap version of Windows 2000 in Overstock.com, but the machine was still slow after the install. For my next trick, I'll try clearing the CMOS to see if I can restore the empty L2 cache (per go_for's great tip in this thread). If I'm still growing cobwebs waiting for the machine to respond, I'll probably just break down and get a new motherboard and build something like you did for your wife. (But not purple! )

 01/30/2007 02:27 PM
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go_for
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techmate,
Gigabyte GA-5SMM, jumpstation:

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Sup...herb...?ProductID=1579

The L2 cache makes a noticable effect.
You might find the CMOS clear jumper position in Gigabytes manual(though taking out the battery for a few minutes does the same).
Some have successfully flashed gigabyte's own BIOS, F5 into the 5461, maybe its a bit more up to date and get access to all the settings.

http://www.driversearch.com/forums/bios/5462.html

-------------------------
 01/30/2007 06:06 PM
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KachiWachi
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Which L2 are we talking about here...the CPU L2...or the Motherboard L2 (External Cache)?

-------------------------
KachiWachi

Moderator - Wim's BIOS

CPU #1 - DFI 586IPVG, K6-2/+ 450 (Cyrix MII 433), 128MB EDO. BIOS patched by Jan Steunebrink.
CPU #2 - Amptron PM-7900 (M520), i200 non-MMX, 128MB EDO
CPU #3 - HP8766C, PIII-667, 768MB SDRAM
CPU #4 - ASUS P3V4X, PIII-733, 256MB SDRAM
CPU #5 - ??? ;)
 01/31/2007 07:11 AM
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crazy_driver_78
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clearing CMOS by removing the lithium battery will work, but I've always had the best luck at this while removing all other power sources (unplugging the power supply and removing all other batteries).

-------------------------
Micro ATX, ECS P5SS-ME, BIOS v4.2, SIS/530, AMD-K6-III+/620ATZ, 2.2v, 512MB SDRAM, nVidia GeForce4 MX 4000 64MB DDR PCI, WinXP Pro SP2, IE6 SP1

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 01/31/2007 03:09 PM
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techmate37
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quote:

Originally posted by: go_for
techmate,
Gigabyte GA-5SMM, jumpstation:

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Sup...herb...?ProductID=1579

The L2 cache makes a noticable effect.
You might find the CMOS clear jumper position in Gigabytes manual(though taking out the battery for a few minutes does the same).



go_for,
Thanks for the great url to the Gigabyte site--a treasure trove of info there! Learned there that the way to clear CMOS is to move jumper J7 from pins 2-3 to pins 1-2. I powered down and moved J7 and waited about 5 minutes--not knowing how long I really should wait... 5 minutes seemed like a nice round number. Powered up then, but the CPU info in CheckitPE still says the L2 cache size is "none". Did a google on clearing CMOS and learned that one should remove the power cable to the motherboard before attempting to clear CMOS. So this time after powering down, I did that--I removed the power cable and THEN moved J7 to 1-2. Waited a bunch of seconds, then moved J7 back to 2-3 again. Put the power cable back. Tried to start the machine but now the machine doesn't start up at all. Any ideas about what can possibly be the problem?
Maybe I should have simply removed the battery.


quote:

Originally posted by: KachiWachi
Which L2 are we talking about here...the CPU L2...or the Motherboard L2 (External Cache)?



KachiWachi,
I'm assuming this would be the CPU L2 cache.
 01/31/2007 03:22 PM
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go_for
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Redo the cmos clear procedure, with the PSU disconnected from mains as always.. Check that the jumper is correctly in position when normal.
Any lights when trying to power up? If not, recheck the power cable connection.

Does this unit have chassis intrusion supervision ?

As for the L2 cache, check also with everest home, what it finds for L2 cache, CPU and external.

-------------------------
 02/01/2007 07:36 AM
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KachiWachi
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The CPU L2 Cache cannot be turned on/off by the BIOS (though it can be for test purposes by manipulating the MSR's).

Only the Motherboard External Cache can be controlled by the BIOS.

Once the BIOS is reset, you should go in there and setup the default parameters, or whatever parameters you wish to set.

-------------------------
KachiWachi

Moderator - Wim's BIOS

CPU #1 - DFI 586IPVG, K6-2/+ 450 (Cyrix MII 433), 128MB EDO. BIOS patched by Jan Steunebrink.
CPU #2 - Amptron PM-7900 (M520), i200 non-MMX, 128MB EDO
CPU #3 - HP8766C, PIII-667, 768MB SDRAM
CPU #4 - ASUS P3V4X, PIII-733, 256MB SDRAM
CPU #5 - ??? ;)
 02/01/2007 08:02 PM
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Wildcard
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I upgraded from a K6-2 system to a K6-III+ 450 @ 550MHz with 256MB and then 384MB. The system ran XP + SP2 very well..for everyday use I was very impressed with it. It's not an Athlon but as mentioned, it's got the all-important L2 cache memoty onboard. Windows XP installed fine but this can't be guaranteed on all systems. The more RAM you have the better (check board limits), especially with the bloated nature of modern software.

As regards games, I installed a Geforce 2 Ultra and was able to run 3D games like GTA & GTA: Vice City OK, even Flight Simlulator 4. But the CPU's relatively weak FPU unit began to show the moment more action was taking place. Installing a Geforce 4 Ti 4200 really didn't improve much, so older games or MAME emulators will run fine but beyond that you're reduced to watching a slideshow. 3D games require FPU power for most of the the geometry calculations.

In the end I would ask whether this venture is worth it though, since creative software really needs bags of memory and in some cases a processor with SSE support (eg Applebred Duron/Sempron/Athlon64). These chips more than address the K6-x FPU weaknesses and even go one better in destroying their Intel counterparts. If you want to run business software and general windows/internet apps you would get along OK, just don't skimp on the memory.

-------------------------
. AMD CPU Data: http://www.tomshardware.com/20.../amd...ult/page23.html & http://www.amdboard.com/amdid.html
. Belarc Advisor: http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html
. GPU Comparison for Laptops: <a href="http://www.notebookche
 02/02/2007 02:36 PM
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techmate37
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quote:

Originally posted by: KachiWachi
The CPU L2 Cache cannot be turned on/off by the BIOS (though it can be for test purposes by manipulating the MSR's).

Only the Motherboard External Cache can be controlled by the BIOS.

Once the BIOS is reset, you should go in there and setup the default parameters, or whatever parameters you wish to set.



Thanks for the major tipoff, KachiWachi. And I read in tld33's first message at the top of the thread that the K6-2 just lacks onboard L2 cache. So I'm chasing after a ghost. Maybe I'll try to find an AMD K6-III+ 450 ACZ 2.0V CPU -- like tld33 found on Ebay. Or just bag it, and get a new mobo.


quote:

Originally posted by: go_for
Redo the cmos clear procedure, with the PSU disconnected from mains as always.. Check that the jumper is correctly in position when normal.
Any lights when trying to power up? If not, recheck the power cable connection.

As for the L2 cache, check also with everest home, what it finds for L2 cache, CPU and external.



go_for,

Thanks for this advice. I did as you suggested and checked, and found that I *did* have the jumper on there wrong. Sheesh. My dad used to say: "Never work tired--that's when you make the most mistakes." Well, so now the machine starts up again. I also went in to the BIOS setup and loaded the defaults in hopes of making L2 cache appear--that was BEFORE I read KachiWachi's message alerting me that that's futile--since what I need is onboard L2 cache and this chip, the K6-2 does not have L2 onboard cache, which I learned from tld33's message at the top of this thread.

Also found Everest freeware, which is good stuff! Thanks for suggesting that as well.

My next move may be to look for a cheap AMD K6-III+ 450 ACZ 2.0V CPU.



quote:

Originally posted by: Wildcard
I upgraded from a K6-2 system to a K6-III+ 450 @ 550MHz with 256MB and then 384MB. The system ran XP + SP2 very well..for everyday use I was very impressed with it. It's not an Athlon but as mentioned, it's got the all-important L2 cache memoty onboard. Windows XP installed fine but this can't be guaranteed on all systems. The more RAM you have the better (check board limits), especially with the bloated nature of modern software.

In the end I would ask whether this venture is worth it though, since creative software really needs bags of memory and in some cases a processor with SSE support (eg Applebred Duron/Sempron/Athlon64). These chips more than address the K6-x FPU weaknesses and even go one better in destroying their Intel counterparts. If you want to run business software and general windows/internet apps you would get along OK, just don't skimp on the memory.



Wildcard,
I completely agree. But this system is intended for a friend who barely knows how to do email--and just stores her weekend pics on her computer. I'm thinking hard about the K6-III+ as my next step--if there is a next step. Thanks for your thoughts!
 02/02/2007 05:29 PM
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techmate37
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On the other hand.... I have a Compaq Presario 5000 sitting out on my back porch--that's halfway to the dumpster--no more room in my jungle of an workshop. I believe the chip in there is an AMD Duron 900... tho' not at all certain of that. Can anyone tell me how to get the info on this 5000 mobo, if it would even make sense try to move it to the 5461--and if that is even possible?
 02/02/2007 06:42 PM
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techmate37
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quote:

Originally posted by: tld33


No, I never did upgrade it, but I did buy an AMD K6-III+ 450 ACZ 2.0V CPU on ebay a while ago.

I do think the K6-III+ will be faster. When I upgrade, I'll post the before/after speed test results.



Hi again tld33,

Could you tell me how you decided on this exact part number for the K6-III+ for your mobo? Especially how did you know to choose ACZ vs. ACR vs. APZ, etc., etc., etc? Am seeing AMD-K6-III+/ACR 2.0V CORE / 3.3V I/O on eBay right now...

Thanks!
 02/03/2007 07:37 AM
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KachiWachi
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AMD-K6-III/xxxpvt where -

xxx = Operating Frequency
p = Package Type
v =Operating Voltage
t = Maximum Case Temperature

For p -
A = 321-pin CPGA
I = 349-ball OBGA

For v -
C = 1.9V - 2.1V (Core) / 3.135V - 3.6V (I/O)
N = 1.7V - 1.9V (Core) / 3.135V - 3.6V (I/O)
P = 1.6V - 1.8V (Core) / 3.135V - 3.6V (I/O)
T = 1.5V - 1.7V (Core) / 3.135V - 3.6V (I/O)

For t -
R = 0° C - 70° C
Z = 0° C - 85° C


-------------------------
KachiWachi

Moderator - Wim's BIOS

CPU #1 - DFI 586IPVG, K6-2/+ 450 (Cyrix MII 433), 128MB EDO. BIOS patched by Jan Steunebrink.
CPU #2 - Amptron PM-7900 (M520), i200 non-MMX, 128MB EDO
CPU #3 - HP8766C, PIII-667, 768MB SDRAM
CPU #4 - ASUS P3V4X, PIII-733, 256MB SDRAM
CPU #5 - ??? ;)
 02/03/2007 07:49 AM
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go_for
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Compaq Presario 5000, if its a Duron in it, could be FIC's motherboard FIC AZ31 (VIA KT133 chipset), Uwave v1.3, microATX size for Compaq.
Probably not worth to move it to another case, why not use it as it is?




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 02/05/2007 11:33 PM
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techmate37
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quote:

Originally posted by: go_for
Compaq Presario 5000, if its a Duron in it, could be FIC's motherboard FIC AZ31 (VIA KT133 chipset), Uwave v1.3, microATX size for Compaq.
Probably not worth to move it to another case, why not use it as it is?


go_for,
That machine went down a bunch of years ago, and I only remember that there was something flakey about the motherboard-- the cpu might not even be salvageable. Thanks very much for the info. I'm at a real crossroads in this project.


quote:

Originally posted by: KachiWachi
AMD-K6-III/xxxpvt where -

xxx = Operating Frequency
p = Package Type
v =Operating Voltage
t = Maximum Case Temperature

For p -
A = 321-pin CPGA
I = 349-ball OBGA

For v -
C = 1.9V - 2.1V (Core) / 3.135V - 3.6V (I/O)
N = 1.7V - 1.9V (Core) / 3.135V - 3.6V (I/O)
P = 1.6V - 1.8V (Core) / 3.135V - 3.6V (I/O)
T = 1.5V - 1.7V (Core) / 3.135V - 3.6V (I/O)

For t -
R = 0° C - 70° C
Z = 0° C - 85° C




[quote name='KachiWachi' date='Feb 3 2007, 05:37 AM' post='1364084127']

KachiWachi,

Thanks for the breakdown of the CPU nomenclature--very handy to finally understand what that stuff means!

 02/06/2007 07:02 AM
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KachiWachi
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NP.

There are others, but I had just written a post elsewhere concerning the ranges I mentioned above, so I just used that as a guide.

-------------------------
KachiWachi

Moderator - Wim's BIOS

CPU #1 - DFI 586IPVG, K6-2/+ 450 (Cyrix MII 433), 128MB EDO. BIOS patched by Jan Steunebrink.
CPU #2 - Amptron PM-7900 (M520), i200 non-MMX, 128MB EDO
CPU #3 - HP8766C, PIII-667, 768MB SDRAM
CPU #4 - ASUS P3V4X, PIII-733, 256MB SDRAM
CPU #5 - ??? ;)
 02/06/2007 05:58 PM
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techmate37
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quote:

Originally posted by: KachiWachi
NP.

There are others, but I had just written a post elsewhere concerning the ranges I mentioned above, so I just used that as a guide.




quote:

Originally posted by: KachiWachi
NP.

There are others, but I had just written a post elsewhere concerning the ranges I mentioned above, so I just used that as a guide.



Hi KachiWachi,

Well, that's even more inspiration to browse around further in the AMD forums. I really appreciate your time and that of all the folks who responded to my questions re this project.

Best,
TM37
 02/06/2007 06:14 PM
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KachiWachi
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The post was actually for another forum.

In any case, all of the information can be downloaded from AMD (CPU datasheets).

Thanks.

-------------------------
KachiWachi

Moderator - Wim's BIOS

CPU #1 - DFI 586IPVG, K6-2/+ 450 (Cyrix MII 433), 128MB EDO. BIOS patched by Jan Steunebrink.
CPU #2 - Amptron PM-7900 (M520), i200 non-MMX, 128MB EDO
CPU #3 - HP8766C, PIII-667, 768MB SDRAM
CPU #4 - ASUS P3V4X, PIII-733, 256MB SDRAM
CPU #5 - ??? ;)
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