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Topic Title: K7VM2 and Duron not working well
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Created On: 07/22/2004 04:39 PM
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 07/22/2004 04:39 PM
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ichikoo
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Posts: 83
Joined: 07/22/2004

Hi there,

I just got a new (old) MB, Asrock K7VM2, and I have two processors, Duron 800MHz and Duron 1.3GHz.

Here are the problems that I'm having:
1. I cannot run it at the full 100MHz clock frequency (from the BIOS setup). I have to run it at 95MHz for my 800MHz, so I only get 760MHz with that clock speed.
2. With my Duron 1.3GHz, if I am able to get it to boot up to WinXP (by setting it to 95MHz clock freq), my keyboard does not work.

For #1, I'm not sure what to do. If the clock freq is set to faster than 95MHz, the machine simplye reboots and claims that Windows did not boot correctly, and the boot menu comes up (with safe mode and what not). But if I do set it to 95MHz, it seems like everything is working fine.

For #2, if I am able to boot up, like I said, my keyboard/mouse does not work. I can muck around with it a bit more to find out if I can get it to work, but so far, no luck.

Ideally, I want to run 1.3GHz at the fullspeed. I am not sure what's wrong, and it seems like a BIOS update shouldn't matter because from here (http://www.asrock.com/support/bios/Info/K7VM2_Info.txt), it says nothing about CPU problems. Are 800MHz and 1.3GHz to slow of CPUs?

Or does this sound like a MB problem?
Koichi

-------------------------
ASRock K7VM2 Rev 2.00' ">http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/...al/ASR_UM/K7VM2_UM.pdf
Windows XP SP1
American Megatrends Inc. P1.90
Duron 800 MHz @ 1032.17 MHz with 1.86v @ 52°C Idle/62°C Load (using toast)
FSB: 129.02 MHz; Multiplier: 8.0
Elixir PC3200 512MB DDR' ">http://www.shentech.com/el51ddrpccl6.html @ 100 MHz
Diamond Stealth
 07/22/2004 06:16 PM
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-Milt-
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Joined: 03/15/2004

Hi Koichi ... Welcome to the AMD Forum!

It may be a mobo problem, but the ASrock website says it supports any 100/200 or 133/266 processor.
http://www.asrock.com/product/product_k7vm2.htm' ">http://www.asrock.com/product/product_k7vm2.htm

What about power?
A weak or dying PSU could cause these same symptoms, because it requires more power to run faster, and that seems to be your problem.
What are the +3.3v, +5.0v, and +12.0v 'A' or 'Amp' ratings, from the sticker on the side of your PSU?

-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 07/22/2004 07:12 PM
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ichikoo
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I *thought* that I can just replace a motherboard, have WinXP recognize the new junk (maybe requiring me to re-activate), and start using the machine.

I was hinted that maybe I should try reinstalling my machine.

I will install a new WinXP into a new harddisk to see if this problem goes away. Meanwhile, I will check out the power supply info as well. But I think my powersupply is ok (though it's 3-4 years old) cause the voltage described in the BIOS looked right.

I think I see a flash of blue screen before the computer reboots once in a while so perhaps my XP is crapping out cause of the drastic hardware changes.

Thanks for the welcome, and I will repost when I find out more information.

Koichi

-------------------------
ASRock K7VM2 Rev 2.00' ">http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/...al/ASR_UM/K7VM2_UM.pdf
Windows XP SP1
American Megatrends Inc. P1.90
Duron 800 MHz @ 1032.17 MHz with 1.86v @ 52°C Idle/62°C Load (using toast)
FSB: 129.02 MHz; Multiplier: 8.0
Elixir PC3200 512MB DDR' ">http://www.shentech.com/el51ddrpccl6.html @ 100 MHz
Diamond Stealth
 07/22/2004 09:13 PM
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-Milt-
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Joined: 03/15/2004

WinXP will only accept a certain number of changes before it refuses to boot.
Read the link below for details, but basically keep your old modem or LAN card from the previous machine, if you can.
If not, well, a 'fresh install' of Windows is always best anyways.

http://episteme.arstechnica.co...b.x?...74&m=1400925745' ">http://episteme.arstechnica.co...=77909774&m=1400925745


-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 07/23/2004 01:02 AM
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ichikoo
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Posts: 83
Joined: 07/22/2004

Okay, so here is how I can repro the problem.

1. K7VM2 motherboard
2. 2 x 128MB SDRAM
3. At the full 100MHz clock

End result:
Blue screen with PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA error.

It does not repro when I do one of the following:
1. Only have one of the two 128MB SDRAMs that I have installed.
2. Keep the CPU freq to 95MHz and below

I thought that maybe the onboard VGA memory might be causing it, so I even disabled the memory to 0 (I am using a separate AGP video card for video).

Does anyone know about K7VM2 MB causing problems like this? I'm wondering if this is a problem for all K7VM2s (that possibly a BIOS update can fix), or if this MB is the one at fault.

THankyou!
Koichi

-------------------------
ASRock K7VM2 Rev 2.00' ">http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/...al/ASR_UM/K7VM2_UM.pdf
Windows XP SP1
American Megatrends Inc. P1.90
Duron 800 MHz @ 1032.17 MHz with 1.86v @ 52°C Idle/62°C Load (using toast)
FSB: 129.02 MHz; Multiplier: 8.0
Elixir PC3200 512MB DDR' ">http://www.shentech.com/el51ddrpccl6.html @ 100 MHz
Diamond Stealth
 07/23/2004 02:06 AM
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-Milt-
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Joined: 03/15/2004

Every single symptom that you have reported so far indicates a lack of enough power...
1) to run a Duron 800 at 8.0x 100 = 800, but it's OK at 8.0x 95 = 760
2) to run a Duron 1300 at any speed... and
3) removing one stick of memory reduces the load on the PSU and it'll run...
so
If it will run at 100 with one stick but not the other, you've got a bad stick of memory.
Run MemTest86 from http://www.memtest86.com/' ">http://www.memtest86.com/ on each stick individually, but I think you'll find that they're both OK at 100 MHz.

What are the +3.3v, +5.0v, and +12.0v 'A' or 'Amp' ratings, from the sticker on the side of your PSU?

-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 07/23/2004 04:20 AM
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ichikoo
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+3.3V - 14A
+5V - 22A
12V - 9A

Both of the sticks should be fine. I tried each of them separately, once each on both SDRAM slots, and they both worked fine. So it's not a bad memory stick.

When I go to the BIOS to check the voltage thing, it is outputting at around that much...but I guess that's not good enough?

Koichi

-------------------------
ASRock K7VM2 Rev 2.00' ">http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/...al/ASR_UM/K7VM2_UM.pdf
Windows XP SP1
American Megatrends Inc. P1.90
Duron 800 MHz @ 1032.17 MHz with 1.86v @ 52°C Idle/62°C Load (using toast)
FSB: 129.02 MHz; Multiplier: 8.0
Elixir PC3200 512MB DDR' ">http://www.shentech.com/el51ddrpccl6.html @ 100 MHz
Diamond Stealth
 07/23/2004 04:29 AM
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-Milt-
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Posts: 1722
Joined: 03/15/2004

Those are not good numbers, especially your +12.0v line.
If you have any other PSU that you can swap in, do so.
If not, the easy way to test your PSU is to try unplugging the power leads to all your case fans and other drives (CD, CDRW, DVD, slave HD and floppy) and see if that eliminates your problem.
(You can leave the 'ribbon' cables hooked up)

It takes more power at boot-up because there is an extra load put on the +12v line (which also supplies your CPU with it's voltage)
This is because your PSU also has to 'spin-up' ALL of your drives and fans at boot. (and they ALL run off of that same +12v line).

If that 'cures' the problem, you simply need a bigger PSU.


-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 07/23/2004 04:38 PM
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ichikoo
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Posts: 83
Joined: 07/22/2004

What is a good number to look for? I will try taking out everything, but I thing it still happened. What I don't understand is why, with my old motherboard, everything worked fine?

I had the following:
ASUS A7V
the same 2 SDRAMS
800 MHz
and so on.

and it worked fine with my current power supply.

Why would this motherboard (K7VM2) keep the 800 MHz from running at the full speed from lack of power? I'm using the same power supply, same rams. Could it be because K7VM2 has a lot more onboard stuff (ethernet, sound, video (though disabled), etc)?

If I am going to get a diff power supply to try to fix this, what is a good number to look for?

Koichi

-------------------------
ASRock K7VM2 Rev 2.00' ">http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/...al/ASR_UM/K7VM2_UM.pdf
Windows XP SP1
American Megatrends Inc. P1.90
Duron 800 MHz @ 1032.17 MHz with 1.86v @ 52°C Idle/62°C Load (using toast)
FSB: 129.02 MHz; Multiplier: 8.0
Elixir PC3200 512MB DDR' ">http://www.shentech.com/el51ddrpccl6.html @ 100 MHz
Diamond Stealth
 07/23/2004 07:58 PM
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ichikoo
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Posts: 83
Joined: 07/22/2004

Hi,

Do you think these numbers should be good enough? (if indeed the problem that I'm having is related to this)

300W
3.3V - 20A
5V - 25A
12V - 13A

Thank you!
Koichi

-------------------------
ASRock K7VM2 Rev 2.00' ">http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/...al/ASR_UM/K7VM2_UM.pdf
Windows XP SP1
American Megatrends Inc. P1.90
Duron 800 MHz @ 1032.17 MHz with 1.86v @ 52°C Idle/62°C Load (using toast)
FSB: 129.02 MHz; Multiplier: 8.0
Elixir PC3200 512MB DDR' ">http://www.shentech.com/el51ddrpccl6.html @ 100 MHz
Diamond Stealth
 07/23/2004 08:45 PM
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-Milt-
Senior Member

Posts: 1722
Joined: 03/15/2004

You don't need to "try taking out everything"
Just unplug some wires was all I asked.
Have you tried it?

-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 07/23/2004 08:46 PM
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ichikoo
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Joined: 07/22/2004

I am not at home so I will try that when I get there


-------------------------
ASRock K7VM2 Rev 2.00' ">http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/...al/ASR_UM/K7VM2_UM.pdf
Windows XP SP1
American Megatrends Inc. P1.90
Duron 800 MHz @ 1032.17 MHz with 1.86v @ 52°C Idle/62°C Load (using toast)
FSB: 129.02 MHz; Multiplier: 8.0
Elixir PC3200 512MB DDR' ">http://www.shentech.com/el51ddrpccl6.html @ 100 MHz
Diamond Stealth
 07/23/2004 09:21 PM
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ichikoo
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Posts: 83
Joined: 07/22/2004

Hm. Here's something more interesting.

It seems like the combination of those two RAM sticks specifically causes the page fault on this board. I acquired a different RAM (256MB) and I stuck it in with one of the RAM that I have, and it works fine.

I disconnected everything except the fan, MB, and the main hard disk, and it still did not work with the 2 128MB sticks that I have.

Is it simply a compatibility issue between the two 128MB ram sticks that I have?

Oh, also, when I had the ASUS A7V and 800 MHz Duron, it took about 4 rounds of the WinXP progress bar to finish before I got to the login screen. Now, with the K7VM2 and 1.3 GHz, it takes about 9 rounds of the progress bar.

Can the temp (CPU being too hot) affect the performance?
Can the MB having onboard stuff (audio, lan, etc) slow things down too?

Koichi

-------------------------
ASRock K7VM2 Rev 2.00' ">http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/...al/ASR_UM/K7VM2_UM.pdf
Windows XP SP1
American Megatrends Inc. P1.90
Duron 800 MHz @ 1032.17 MHz with 1.86v @ 52°C Idle/62°C Load (using toast)
FSB: 129.02 MHz; Multiplier: 8.0
Elixir PC3200 512MB DDR' ">http://www.shentech.com/el51ddrpccl6.html @ 100 MHz
Diamond Stealth
 07/25/2004 12:37 AM
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-Milt-
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Posts: 1722
Joined: 03/15/2004

That's a very unusual 'incompatibility' problem, where both sticks work individually (although you didn't specify at what speed), and yet it won't boot with both in there.
But that's apparently the problem.

Excess CPU heat will cause bluescreens, freezing, and spontaneous reboots, but that doesn't affect the 'performance'

It will take longer for Windows to load the drivers if you have a lot of on-board stuff, but shouldn't affect the running of the comp.

-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 07/25/2004 06:47 PM
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ichikoo
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Joined: 07/22/2004

Hi there,

Thanks for your help. Yup, my computer does run at a good speed once windows is loaded. Btw, what's a good bench marking application? Perhaps a software that can show the temperature as well? Right now, I have to go to the BIOS to check the temp.

Koichi

-------------------------
ASRock K7VM2 Rev 2.00' ">http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/...al/ASR_UM/K7VM2_UM.pdf
Windows XP SP1
American Megatrends Inc. P1.90
Duron 800 MHz @ 1032.17 MHz with 1.86v @ 52°C Idle/62°C Load (using toast)
FSB: 129.02 MHz; Multiplier: 8.0
Elixir PC3200 512MB DDR' ">http://www.shentech.com/el51ddrpccl6.html @ 100 MHz
Diamond Stealth
 07/25/2004 07:45 PM
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-Milt-
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Joined: 03/15/2004

A good program for monitoring your temps, in Windows, is SpeedFan from...
http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php' ">http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php

Run a simple little test like CPUmrk99.zip from near the bottom of my BIOS page so you can compare your results with your Duron 1300...
http://www.freewebs.com/milt/P...810L...L_BIOS_Page.htm' ">http://www.freewebs.com/milt/P...ps_M810L_BIOS_Page.htm

Here's my Duron 1000 OC'ed to 9.0x 132 = 1261 MHz



-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 07/27/2004 03:52 AM
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ichikoo
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Joined: 07/22/2004

What does the score imply? Does the scoring mean something across different boards? Like, your score on the page versus my score that I get now? Or is it hardware specific?

Thank you!
Koichi

-------------------------
ASRock K7VM2 Rev 2.00' ">http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/...al/ASR_UM/K7VM2_UM.pdf
Windows XP SP1
American Megatrends Inc. P1.90
Duron 800 MHz @ 1032.17 MHz with 1.86v @ 52°C Idle/62°C Load (using toast)
FSB: 129.02 MHz; Multiplier: 8.0
Elixir PC3200 512MB DDR' ">http://www.shentech.com/el51ddrpccl6.html @ 100 MHz
Diamond Stealth
 07/27/2004 04:59 AM
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-Milt-
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Posts: 1722
Joined: 03/15/2004

ichikoo,

Basically it's so that you can compare changes you make within your own system, to see IF a change was for the better.
It is a test of how well your processor and memory are working together.
Higher is better.
The worst system I've ever used it on was a Pentium 120, overclocked to 150 MHz... I scored a measly 7.0 CPUmarks
The best system tested was my Chaintech 7NIF2 / 1700+ T-bred, overclocked to 2453 MHz... I scored 224 CPUmarks

As an example of how changing motherboards and FSBs can greatly affect your performance (as measured by CPUmark99), here is the same Duron 1000 processor as in the image above, but running with a much higher FSB, and a lower multiplier...


Even though the processor is running 18.6% slower, the CPUmark score has increased by 16.2%
Does that tell you something about why getting your FSB speed up is considered so important?


-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 07/27/2004 06:23 PM
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ichikoo
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Posts: 83
Joined: 07/22/2004

so if i can change the multiplier (by default, or by connecting the L1 thingees) of the CPU, if I just want something to perform better, it is the best to increase the FSB and decrease the multiplier?

ko

-------------------------
ASRock K7VM2 Rev 2.00' ">http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/...al/ASR_UM/K7VM2_UM.pdf
Windows XP SP1
American Megatrends Inc. P1.90
Duron 800 MHz @ 1032.17 MHz with 1.86v @ 52°C Idle/62°C Load (using toast)
FSB: 129.02 MHz; Multiplier: 8.0
Elixir PC3200 512MB DDR' ">http://www.shentech.com/el51ddrpccl6.html @ 100 MHz
Diamond Stealth
 07/27/2004 07:06 PM
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-Milt-
Senior Member

Posts: 1722
Joined: 03/15/2004

ko.

If your Asrock K7VM2 will allow you to adjust the multis in your CMOS, then yes, if you close the L1 bridges, you should be able to adjust the multipliers.
Does it have that option in your CMOS? (to change the multiplier)
Also, what is the highest FSB that it will allow you to attempt, in your CMOS?

But let's get the Duron 1300 up and running properly at the 'stock' 13.0x 100/100 = 1300 MHz first, OKay?

Then you can feel free to 'mess with' the Duron 800, knowing that if you totally screw up, and somehow fry the 800, you'll have the 1300 to fall back to.



-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
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