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Topic Title: K7VM2 and Duron not working well
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Created On: 07/22/2004 04:39 PM
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 07/27/2004 07:08 PM
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ichikoo
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Yup yup. You're right.

At the moment, I'm just trying to lower the temperature with a help from the other thread.

http://forums.amd.com/index.php?showtopic=19759' ">http://forums.amd.com/index.php?showtopic=19759

right now it's running maxes at 69 C with toast, while it idles at 54 C. I guess I should consider getting a new heat sink....

Koichi

-------------------------
ASRock K7VM2 Rev 2.00' ">http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/...al/ASR_UM/K7VM2_UM.pdf
Windows XP SP1
American Megatrends Inc. P1.90
Duron 800 MHz @ 1032.17 MHz with 1.86v @ 52°C Idle/62°C Load (using toast)
FSB: 129.02 MHz; Multiplier: 8.0
Elixir PC3200 512MB DDR' ">http://www.shentech.com/el51ddrpccl6.html @ 100 MHz
Diamond Stealth
 08/01/2004 03:43 PM
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JHawk56
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Hello ichikoo & Milt,

I have read elsewhere about the K7VM2 not working with 2 sticks of DDR. It's been a long time but maybe I can Google it up.

I'll know soon enough. I have plans to add a second stick of PC2100 to my K7VM2 at work. I'd forgotten it can be a problem, since I've never tried it myself.

John

-------------------------
My ECS/PCCHIPS/Amptron PCs<br>ASRock K7VM2
 08/01/2004 06:07 PM
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-Milt-
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Hi John... and a big 'Welcome'! to the AMD Forum.

I think you'll like it here, and your knowledge about these boards will be much appreciated.

-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 08/01/2004 07:43 PM
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JHawk56
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Thanks for the welcome, Milt. Nice to be among friends!

@ ichikoo:

Please clarify what kind of RAM you use. It's all SDRAM (Synchronous Dynamic Random Access memory) these days, but there is SDR (Single Data Rate) SDRAM (i.e. PC 100 or PC133) and DDR (Dual Data Rate) SDRAM (i.e. PC1600, PC2100).
SDRAM FAQ' ">http://www.corsairmicro.com/main/tsdramfaq.html

ocworkbench.com used to have an ASRock forum. It has since merged into their Asus forum. I looked back, and most of the posts about problems with 2 RAM sticks were for PC100 & PC133. But there was one post saying that ASRock has stated you cannot use 2 sticks of DDR at 100/200MHz. So, IF you have PC2100 or higher, you might try setting the memory speed (only) to 133. More likely you have SDR SDRAM anyway since many people combine the 2 "SDR"s and use SDRAM only to refer to SDR SDRAM.

Regarding CPU temperature: Are you looking at it in BIOS or with something like MBM5? ASRock automatically adds 4 degrees C to the temp read by the sensor, in order to approximate actual core temp. So if you are looking at the temp in BIOS, it is higher than what most motherboards would show. Milt is 100% correct that you need to get those temps down, but your situation may not be as drastic as our experience with other (non-ASRock) mobos would suggest.

John


-------------------------
My ECS/PCCHIPS/Amptron PCs<br>ASRock K7VM2
 08/01/2004 08:02 PM
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JHawk56
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One more thing -- All six of our K7VM2's are running Duron 1.3's at normal speed. So there is hope.

John

-------------------------
My ECS/PCCHIPS/Amptron PCs<br>ASRock K7VM2
 08/02/2004 01:36 PM
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ichikoo
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What a bummer.

I think I know why I am not supposed to put the Arctic Silver thing onto the CPU core directly. I suppose the extraneous thing that might get on it will damage the CPU. I think I killed it!

Anyhow, both of my RAM sticks were 100 SDRAM memory sticks at 128 MB. When I put in one that is 128 and 256, it worked fine. I suppose it might just be those two 128 MB sticks that were incompatible.

Aren't we not supposed to put in DDR and SDRAM sticks on the board simultaneously? I thought that we are only supposed to put one or the other type.

I'm running 800 MHz now at home again cause my 1.3 GHz died when I put the new heat sink on with the thermal grease thing. I did it fine before but this time I ended up killing it (and like I said above, I believe this happened because of some extra stuff that might've gotten on it by directly applying to it).

I suppose it might be fun to try to over clock the 800 MHz now cause I have a heat sink that should handle Athlon XP 3200+.

http://www.svc.com/cmxdream2-19.html' ">http://www.svc.com/cmxdream2-19.html

It's very quiet too.

Should I bother over clocking my 800 MHz? Or is it worth buying something more capable?

The original reason that I got the 1.3 GHz was because I thought that my other MB (A7V) can support it. Of course I learned it the hardway that it can't and it fried it. ANd I got the K7VM2 MB cause it can support more than a 1.3 GHz so I can upgrade it in the future if I want to. Well, maybe now is the future.

I can either over clock my 800MHz or buy a more capable CPU.

What do you guys think?
What is the best CPU K7VM2 can support?

Thank you!
Koichi

P.S. After my computer started to work after I put back the 800 MHz on it, I was relieved. So sad that I messed up the 1.3 Duron, but happy enough that things are still working.

-------------------------
ASRock K7VM2 Rev 2.00' ">http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/...al/ASR_UM/K7VM2_UM.pdf
Windows XP SP1
American Megatrends Inc. P1.90
Duron 800 MHz @ 1032.17 MHz with 1.86v @ 52°C Idle/62°C Load (using toast)
FSB: 129.02 MHz; Multiplier: 8.0
Elixir PC3200 512MB DDR' ">http://www.shentech.com/el51ddrpccl6.html @ 100 MHz
Diamond Stealth
 08/02/2004 03:32 PM
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-Milt-
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Try answering the questions I asked several posts above...QUOTE If your Asrock K7VM2 will allow you to adjust the multis in your CMOS, then yes, if you close the L1 bridges, you should be able to adjust the multipliers.
Does it have that option in your CMOS? (to change the multiplier)
Also, what is the highest FSB that it will allow you to attempt, in your CMOS?

I know that you have 95, 100 and 133 for FSB selections, but what else do you have?

According to http://www.cpudatabase.com/CPUdb/' ">http://www.cpudatabase.com/CPUdb/ your Duron 800 achieves an average overclock of 1003 MHz, and the highest was 1400 MHz

I think John can better answer your question about the best CPU for your ASRock K7VM2, but from what I've read on... http://www.asrock.com/product/product_k7vm2.htm' ">http://www.asrock.com/product/product_k7vm2.htm
I'd say that the max is an AXMA3000FKT4C 2200MHz 133/266 Barton(72W) Mobile CPU, but they are expensive.
Better to OC your Duron until you know what you're doing.
It was a shame to lose the 1300... you wouldn't want to do the same with a 3000+



-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 08/02/2004 03:58 PM
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ichikoo
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I do not have a place to change the multiplier via bios.

And the FSB ranges. I am not sure of the exact values, but I will check it later.

Hey, I have a weird problem.

With my stock heat sink, my BIOS tells me that I'm running at 46-48 C. With my other heat sink/fan, it says my temperature is 46-48 C as well. However, once I load up XP and run Speed Fan or MBM 5, my stock one reports around the same teperature, but with the other bigger heat sink/fan combo, I get, at idle, 64 C with my 800 MHz.

What can cause this thing? Is the BIOS reporting the wrong temperature simply, and that my heatsink/fan either sucks or I'm putting it on wrong? I don't think that I'm putting it on wrong, since the core copper area is being touched by the CPU's core.

What do you think?
The fan is definitely moving....

Koichi

-------------------------
ASRock K7VM2 Rev 2.00' ">http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/...al/ASR_UM/K7VM2_UM.pdf
Windows XP SP1
American Megatrends Inc. P1.90
Duron 800 MHz @ 1032.17 MHz with 1.86v @ 52°C Idle/62°C Load (using toast)
FSB: 129.02 MHz; Multiplier: 8.0
Elixir PC3200 512MB DDR' ">http://www.shentech.com/el51ddrpccl6.html @ 100 MHz
Diamond Stealth
 08/02/2004 04:37 PM
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-Milt-
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If it says 64° Celsius in CMOS, then I'd have to say you've put it on backwards.
When in doubt, ALWAYS check it in CMOS.... CMOS will always identify your CPU temp correctly... MBM5 and SpeedFan don't know which sensor is which... you have to figure it out.

-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 08/02/2004 04:38 PM
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ichikoo
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FSB - 50-240~.




-------------------------
ASRock K7VM2 Rev 2.00' ">http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/...al/ASR_UM/K7VM2_UM.pdf
Windows XP SP1
American Megatrends Inc. P1.90
Duron 800 MHz @ 1032.17 MHz with 1.86v @ 52°C Idle/62°C Load (using toast)
FSB: 129.02 MHz; Multiplier: 8.0
Elixir PC3200 512MB DDR' ">http://www.shentech.com/el51ddrpccl6.html @ 100 MHz
Diamond Stealth
 08/02/2004 04:40 PM
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ichikoo
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Check it in CMOS, meaning, check the temp reading in the BIOS? Or is it something else?

I believe the Speed Fan is reading the right value because it shows up fine with I use the stock one (the temp that SPeed Fan shows and the temp that the BIOS shows is the same, if not, very similar).

How does the program get the temp reading anyway? Is it at all related to the heat sink fan? Like, can the heat sink/fan be broken to cause the temperature to be wrong?

-------------------------
ASRock K7VM2 Rev 2.00' ">http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/...al/ASR_UM/K7VM2_UM.pdf
Windows XP SP1
American Megatrends Inc. P1.90
Duron 800 MHz @ 1032.17 MHz with 1.86v @ 52°C Idle/62°C Load (using toast)
FSB: 129.02 MHz; Multiplier: 8.0
Elixir PC3200 512MB DDR' ">http://www.shentech.com/el51ddrpccl6.html @ 100 MHz
Diamond Stealth
 08/02/2004 08:07 PM
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ichikoo
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Oops...I didn't mean the FSB is 50-240~. I meant the clock freq that I can set in BIOS ranges between 50 and 240~ MHz.

THanks!

Oh also, I'm thinking of spending $50< on a new CPU. I don't feel like going all out and getting the fastest CPU possible for my K7VM2 mb cause I don't really need to spend that much to get a faster CPU. I think I'd be happy with something that ranges between 1.3 (previous one that I had) and 1.8ish. I saw a 1.6 Duron on ebay for $15~ (at the moment at least) so I guess if I want to get around that speed, I can get it for fairly cheap.

I do not really plan to over clock whatever CPU that I get so it'll be cool if I can get some recs on if I should go with one of the faster CPUs from AMD Duron model, or go with Athlon XP models.


-------------------------
ASRock K7VM2 Rev 2.00' ">http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/...al/ASR_UM/K7VM2_UM.pdf
Windows XP SP1
American Megatrends Inc. P1.90
Duron 800 MHz @ 1032.17 MHz with 1.86v @ 52°C Idle/62°C Load (using toast)
FSB: 129.02 MHz; Multiplier: 8.0
Elixir PC3200 512MB DDR' ">http://www.shentech.com/el51ddrpccl6.html @ 100 MHz
Diamond Stealth
 08/02/2004 09:41 PM
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-Milt-
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ichikoo,

What you are calling your "BIOS" is actually your 'CMOS Setup'... after all, what do you press to get there... "press Delete to enter CMOS" correct?
By using CMOS, you can alter some of your BIOS options, but you are NOT altering your BIOS... only a 'flash' can do that.

Start 'bumping up' your FSB, always just a little at a time, from about 110 on up.
Somewhere in the 112 - 117 MHz range you will find it won't load Windows, or if it does, it'll be unstable.
Back it down a notch or two from there, and tell me where you're at.
If you go too far too fast, it won't even POST, and you'll have to clear CMOS with the jumper (refer to your manual)

But always, ALWAYS, keep an eye on your CPU temp, especially whenever you 'bump' the FSB, Okay?
It's the temp that shortens the life of any electronic component.



-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 08/02/2004 11:15 PM
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JHawk56
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Ichikoo--

Here are your CPU options:
K7VM2 CPU Support Table' ">http://www.asrock.com/support/...t/CPUSupport_K7VM2.htm

Clearing CMOS is done by shorting two solder points with a paper clip. There is no jumper. (And they call PCCHIPS cheap! The manual covers it. By the way, if your paper manual looks a bit skimpy, it's only the Quick Installation Guide. The real manual is a PDF file on the CD.

John

-------------------------
My ECS/PCCHIPS/Amptron PCs<br>ASRock K7VM2
 08/03/2004 04:28 AM
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ichikoo
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Hello,

I guess if I don't intend to overclock, I just have to choose a CPU from the list that you showed me according to the price that I want to pay right?

Btw, I found out the problem of the high temperature in XP. The heatsink was not appropriately installed. I think that it was slightly angled, so some of it was touching the heatsink, but not the whole core.

With the heatsink/fan combo that I have, I get 47 C at load, and about 38-39 on idle. I suppose if I use the thermal grease, it should go down by 5 C or so, right?

This is the result that I get with an AMD Duron 800 MHz.

Koichi

-------------------------
ASRock K7VM2 Rev 2.00' ">http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/...al/ASR_UM/K7VM2_UM.pdf
Windows XP SP1
American Megatrends Inc. P1.90
Duron 800 MHz @ 1032.17 MHz with 1.86v @ 52°C Idle/62°C Load (using toast)
FSB: 129.02 MHz; Multiplier: 8.0
Elixir PC3200 512MB DDR' ">http://www.shentech.com/el51ddrpccl6.html @ 100 MHz
Diamond Stealth
 08/03/2004 04:44 AM
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ichikoo
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Hello again,

So right now, I'm running with the external clock of 114 MHz. It's idling around 43-44 C at the moment. It seems like things are stable enough. For 115, I almost got to windows but it gave up I think once the logon executable started to run (or somewhere around that time). For 116-117, it wouldn't even go to the loading UI. I did not try anything about 117.

Thanks!
Koichi

-------------------------
ASRock K7VM2 Rev 2.00' ">http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/...al/ASR_UM/K7VM2_UM.pdf
Windows XP SP1
American Megatrends Inc. P1.90
Duron 800 MHz @ 1032.17 MHz with 1.86v @ 52°C Idle/62°C Load (using toast)
FSB: 129.02 MHz; Multiplier: 8.0
Elixir PC3200 512MB DDR' ">http://www.shentech.com/el51ddrpccl6.html @ 100 MHz
Diamond Stealth
 08/03/2004 12:40 PM
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-Milt-
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Koichi,

The Duron 1400, (if you can find one), 1600, or 1800 would be a very good, economical choice in your situation.
And if you should later to decide to overclock it, these things will go absolutely nuts...
Here's a watercooled Duron 1600 running at 2867 MHz on 2.14v Vcore...



But right now what you need is a little more Vcore voltage to help your Duron 800 go a little faster.
With this extra voltage, you should be able to get at least 124 and probably 133 MHz (and anything over 119 MHz puts you back in a 'safe zone' because the PCI drops to 30 MHz at 120 MHz... 120/4=30 )

Here's a link to the best explanation I've ever read, explaining just WHY this increase in Vcore voltage can help...
http://www.rhcf.com/sis-bin/ul....cgi...29;t=000004;p=0' ">http://www.rhcf.com/sis-bin/ul...opic;f=29;t=000004;p=0

There are two different ways to accomplish this... one is to add a single pencil line on the L7 bridge of your CPU, to take it from the current 1.6v, up to 1.8v... see this page for a diagram...
http://www.ocinside.de/index_e...tml/..._resistors.html' ">http://www.ocinside.de/index_e...socketa_resistors.html

The other way involves adding one tiny little wire into the socket, under your CPU... it's called the 'wire-trick'
Click twice on the link below to open two new windows, BOTH FULL SIZE, to this page...
http://www.ocinside.de/go_e.ht.../wor...amd_pinmod.html' ">http://www.ocinside.de/go_e.ht...pinmod/amd_pinmod.html

Change the 'CPU view' to 'Socket view' on the pages you've opened.

In the first window change the 'Voltage selection' to what you have now. (this is your 'stock' Window... 1.60v)

In the second window change the 'Voltage selection' to 1.80v

Now, toggle back and forth between the 'stock' window and the other window.

Can you see where you need to add just that ONE tiny little wire? This image should help...


Remember that you do NOT need to concern yourself with anything that appears in the 'stock' window, you just need to ADD that new wire that appears in the second window.



For the wire trick...
You'll need one single strand, from a single wire of a stranded ribbon cable, (an old floppy or hard drive cable), cut about 1 cm long.
Pick it up with hemostats, tweezers, or needle-nose pliers, not quite in the middle, and bend it into a 'U' shape with unequal length legs, about 1/8" apart, so that it looks something like this...


Figure out which holes it needs to go into from the pin-mod guide, and insert the 'long' leg first.
You'll need a good magnifying glass, and strong lighting.



-------------------------
Here is my new PCChips M848A' ">http://img.photobucket.com/alb...2_T-2-3-3-6-2_M848.jpg v2.1, with a 1700+ @ 2411 MHz, and my trusty old PCChips M810L' ">http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmm...00MHz_Sandra_tests.jpg v7.1A, with a Barton 2500+ @ over 3500+. Some of my fancy cars are on this pag
 08/03/2004 01:26 PM
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JHawk56
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Koichi,

Yes, you should be able to use any CPU on the list, from the left-hand column. (You must not have version 3.0 because it would not have the SDR slots.) But first I'd see what that 800 can do. Milt helped me with the "wire trick" on another forum, and we got my son's Duron 850 to 1055 MHz easily. I am hopeful of getting it to 1130 (133 FSB) with still more Vcore and better cooling. Your task may be easier since you can control FSB in 1 MHz increments, whereas my son's K7S5A depends on a custom BIOS to make FSB changes, and there are no steps between 124 and 133.

We don't know much about what the K7VM2 does with memory speed and AGP speed when you increment the FSB. (Or I don't anyway -- what Milt knows often amazes me! This could impact your results too. You might want to start using CPUCool now (just for monitoring purposes) so you can take a peak at what is happening.

John

-------------------------
My ECS/PCCHIPS/Amptron PCs<br>ASRock K7VM2
 08/03/2004 02:25 PM
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ichikoo
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Hello again!

I will try the wire trick back home tonight, and see what I can get out of it. Meanwhile, I will look for a 1.4-1.8 Duron to use later. I suppose whatever I do now will benefit me when I get a faster CPU as well right?

I will try the wire trick out and get back to this thread.

THanks for all the help!

Oh of course, even if I get a faster CPU, I will do all of these overclocking related things with the 800 MHz one just in case I screw things up again....

THanks!
Koichi

-------------------------
ASRock K7VM2 Rev 2.00' ">http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/...al/ASR_UM/K7VM2_UM.pdf
Windows XP SP1
American Megatrends Inc. P1.90
Duron 800 MHz @ 1032.17 MHz with 1.86v @ 52°C Idle/62°C Load (using toast)
FSB: 129.02 MHz; Multiplier: 8.0
Elixir PC3200 512MB DDR' ">http://www.shentech.com/el51ddrpccl6.html @ 100 MHz
Diamond Stealth
 08/03/2004 02:31 PM
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JHawk56
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Joined: 07/27/2004

On the memory issue, I just added a second 256 MB stick of PC2100 to my K7VM2 at work. Working great so far, and doesn't care if it is clocked at 200 or 266.

I took the stick out of another K7VM2. The real test will be when I replace that missing RAM with 2x128 MB sticks of Crucial PC133.

I discovered something interesting. The post I read on ocworkbench.com said there was a problem with 2 sticks of DDR at 200 MHz. I assumed that the "Auto" setting for memory speed would clock the memory synchronously with the Duron 1.3 CPU (100/200), and I might have a problem and have to resort to setting 266 MHz manually while still using one stick, before adding the other. Nope. Apparently the "Auto" setting matches the memory speed to its rating, not to the CPU. It makes it pretty obvious by showing "266 MHz" on the first BIOS Setup page, but since this is my employer's machine (that I built) I don't mess with it much and am seldom in BIOS Setup. Guess I'd forgotten.

My point is, with a Duron and PC2100 (DDR266), this board runs CPU and memory asynchronously by default! I'm not used to that. Since that results in degraded performance on many boards, I'm surprised to see it. Will have to benchmark it sometime (for overall performance, not just memory bandwidth), both synch and asynch.

As I said above, both memory speeds worked. Be careful if using SiSoft Sandra though. It will tell you the memory bus is clocked at 2x100 MHz no matter which of the three settings (Auto-200-266) you chose. The Sandra Memory Bandwidth Benchmark tells the truth, though -- results were much better at 266 than 200. The benchmark also confirmed the "Auto" setting put the memory at its rated 266 speed.

John

-------------------------
My ECS/PCCHIPS/Amptron PCs<br>ASRock K7VM2
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