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Topic Title: SB710 slow ssd?
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Created On: 06/25/2010 06:23 AM
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 06/25/2010 06:23 AM
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Coldplayer
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I've got a intel 80gb ssd running on a 770T-UD3P and performance of the ssd is noticably slower then when on my intel rig. When will AMD release half decent ahci drivers with trim etc. Im using the standard msahci drivers atm. It can't be that hard to write a ahci driver with trim can it?
 06/25/2010 06:39 AM
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QB the Slayer
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Considering how Intel is the only RAID driver that will pass TRIM through it to a single SSD (not in the array) I am guessing it is.

And good call sticking with the MSAHCI driver... the AMD is crap last I heard

QB

-------------------------

The MONSTER HTPC

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 965 C2 (140W).||.Cooler: Corsair H80i
MB: Gigabyte 990FXA-UD7.||.RAM: 8 GB Mushkin Blackline DDR3 2000MHz (7-10-8-27-1T)
Case: CoolerMaster HAF 932.||.PSU: Corsair HX750
GPU:HIS IceQ 5 Radeon HD 5770 Turbo 1GB.||.Audio: Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro w/ Logitech Z-5300e (5.1, 280W-RMS)
Drive: 2xKingston SSD 40GB RAID0.||.Storage: 6TB (4x500GB Caviar Black RAID0, 2TB Hitachi & 2TB Caviar Green)
 06/25/2010 07:17 AM
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Coldplayer
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got told MS driver is inconsistent. Dont see why AMD cant code a ahci driver with trim. Also im not using raid only single ssd.
 06/27/2010 08:32 AM
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sswilson
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All we can do is keep bugging them to release proper AHCI drivers.... sooner or later they'll hopefully get the message.

I contacted AMD tech support and the answer I got from them was to inquire with the motherboard manufacturer(s). Completely bogus answer as it's AMD who license the chipsets as well as produce the drivers for the chipsets.

As far as I can tell there's a 10%+ performance penalty using the standard M$ AHCI drivers for SSDs (as opposed to chipset specific ones), and forget about Sandforce all together.
 07/10/2010 11:54 AM
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Building4Fun
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I don't know if this is any help, or that it will be seen / read by the poster, but I have had a lot of burn in education with my Phenom Gigabyte PC.

One thing I recently learned - the hard way! - is that you don't need the AMD drivers for AHCI SATA. In fact installing as I did, SATA in the BIOS elected / OS supported, IDE mode was one of the reasons I had so many BSODs. Thanks to Gigabyte support and G Skill, updating my BIOS from F3 to F8 most of my woes were gone, except one!

Now in order to re-claim some of the mystique of the Phenom I was looking for a way to improve performance back somewhere to the original buggy RAID0, so I decided to go with Microsoft's tip for changing over a SATA drive system from IDE to AHCI.

That takes a couple of edits of the Registry and changing the BIOS. Please if you plan to mess with the Registry, back it up by creating a 'restore' point just before you make the changes.

1. Exit all Windows-based programs.
2. Click Start, type regedit in the Start Search box, and then press ENTER.
3. If you receive the User Account Control dialog box, click Continue.
4. Locate and then click one of the following registry subkeys:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\Msahci
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\IastorV
5. In the right pane, right-click Start in the Name column, and then click Modify.
6. In the Value data box, type 0, and then click OK.
7. On the File menu, click Exit to close Registry Editor.

Wow.... I mean this machine is running cooler and much much faster!

So with the AMD 880g CS / SB710 SB it appears you can use the MS drivers instead of the AMD ones.

BTW While my overall MS PR is the same 5.9, apps in Vista load much much faster.

Now I am waiting a decent CPU heatsink/fan to see what this rig is capable of!

-------------------------
CP AMD Phenom II x4 955 Blk Ed
Mem G Skill 4 G 1600 - F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ
MB Gigabyte GA-MA785GT-UD3h Bios Award v F8 - (AMD 880g chipset AMD 710 SB )
HDD Seagate SATA ST3400418S X 2 AHCI enabled in Bios using Windows Drivers! not AMD's.
PCI express Card ATi Radeon HD 5750
PS Antec Earthwatts 650w..
Display Samsung HDTV 23" SyncMaster 2333HD
Began unstable- many BSODs- over 4 months with Gigabyte / G Skill / AMD hlp is a v quick and stable system. MS PR 5.9
 07/10/2010 03:57 PM
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QB the Slayer
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As far as I know... it is still better to use MSAHCI.... AMDAHCI is not that good and performs poorly... but things may have changed since I last looked into it and that was not too long ago

QB

-------------------------

The MONSTER HTPC

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 965 C2 (140W).||.Cooler: Corsair H80i
MB: Gigabyte 990FXA-UD7.||.RAM: 8 GB Mushkin Blackline DDR3 2000MHz (7-10-8-27-1T)
Case: CoolerMaster HAF 932.||.PSU: Corsair HX750
GPU:HIS IceQ 5 Radeon HD 5770 Turbo 1GB.||.Audio: Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro w/ Logitech Z-5300e (5.1, 280W-RMS)
Drive: 2xKingston SSD 40GB RAID0.||.Storage: 6TB (4x500GB Caviar Black RAID0, 2TB Hitachi & 2TB Caviar Green)
 08/17/2010 09:21 AM
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Cyba
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"..things may have changed since I last looked into it and that was not too long ago"
Nope. Not at 08/18/2010. I've just bought a GA-870A-UD3 mobo, Phenom II x4 965, some fast GSkill ram, and an Intel X25-V plus Velociraptor 6GB/sec second drive. The idea was to use the single cheap Intel as a fast (hopefully) boot drive only and load most of my progs onto the first partition of the Raptor.
What a frickin trial.
QB says, MSAHCI is better. I think it is. For one thing, the mobo AMD chipset drivers load RAID - at least, that's the way Intel's SDD Toolbox's Management Tools Optimizer sees it. Therefore, the Optimizer won't work (Intel state that.)
There are three Gigabyte AHCI/RAID Mode preinstall (F6) driver versions on their site. Two were released on 12 April 2010 (??) and the last on 16 April 2010. There is no description of the differences.
The motherboard driver and utilities CD-ROM contains an AMD Chipset Driver (chipset/sata raid driver) dated 4 April 2010. I'd have thought that would need to be installed. It's 97.65MB. The latest F6 AHCI/RAID preinstall driver is just 0.19MB, so there's a lot more to the CD-ROM chipset driver. There's the rub.
If you set AHCI in the BIOS, then load the F6 driver when installing WN7, then load the cd rom chipset drivers..well, I don't know where I am with AMD's AHCI because (i) the CD offers no choice, it auto-loads the chipset drivers and configures both AHCI and Sata Raid, so (ii) does the CD AHCI overwrite the (latest) F6 driver? Whatever, the Intel Optimizer won't work. However, SANDRA 2010 seems to show Trim and NCQ running on the Intel SSD.
Alternatively, setting AHCI in the BIOS and installing WN7 which picks up the Intel as a SATA drive and loads the MS drivers activates the ToolBox Optimizer. So the drive *may* be properly configured - but what about the mobo (without the chipset drivers)?
And how will I ever know if the F6 driver works if it is over-written?
Actually, why would you have an F6 drive if it is?
 08/17/2010 09:40 AM
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QB the Slayer
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Just use the AHCI drivers windows installs for your chipset. That will pass TRIM to your SSD and the drive should perform better with that than the AMD AHCI driver (still yet to see any info about AMD AHCI being better than MS AHCI). Adding drivers during the install is only needed for a RAID setup, so you should not even be thinking about F6.

If you want to test the AMD driver instead of the MS driver you just install it after your OS is installed. Go to the AMD/ATI driver download site and get the latest AHCI chipset driver... But that is your choice if you want to test the two drivers against one another.

QB

-------------------------

The MONSTER HTPC

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 965 C2 (140W).||.Cooler: Corsair H80i
MB: Gigabyte 990FXA-UD7.||.RAM: 8 GB Mushkin Blackline DDR3 2000MHz (7-10-8-27-1T)
Case: CoolerMaster HAF 932.||.PSU: Corsair HX750
GPU:HIS IceQ 5 Radeon HD 5770 Turbo 1GB.||.Audio: Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro w/ Logitech Z-5300e (5.1, 280W-RMS)
Drive: 2xKingston SSD 40GB RAID0.||.Storage: 6TB (4x500GB Caviar Black RAID0, 2TB Hitachi & 2TB Caviar Green)
 08/17/2010 11:30 PM
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Cyba
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Yes, I agree (Windows AHCI). The latest AMD (Catalyst) AHCI driver, by the way, is on the mobo cdrom and installs with the SATA chipset drivers, which I need, but includes RAID, which I don't need. There are no options, they all go in together (see above).
Yes, I would like to know, naturally, which AHCI driver gets the best performance out of the SSD.
Thinking it through, and in retrospect, I should have followed my instincts and gone, at this stage, for two Velociraptor 6GB/sec (expensive) in a RAID config - or the SSD and an Intel CPU-mobo (chipset.)
So much for being pro AMD.

P.S. And how come Coldplayer with 2 posts is a 'Newbie' but Building4Fun (and now me with 2 posts) is a 'Lurker' (which sounds bent)?
 08/17/2010 11:42 PM
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QB the Slayer
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Which SSD did you get? If it is a good one, it will out-perform 2 VR's in RAID easily.

As for drivers... I highly suggest you get the SB drivers from AMD/ATI driver download. I have never used my MB chipset drivers. And an answer to one of your Q's... the RAID driver is included from your MB site/disk, but will not be installed if your system is in AHCI mode (found in BIOS). RAID drivers are only installed if a RAID device is detected.

btw... Intel is better for it's storage performance (ICH10R), but not by a huge margin, AMD holds it's own... and the SB850 may be better.... will do a search now for comparisons

QB

-------------------------

The MONSTER HTPC

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 965 C2 (140W).||.Cooler: Corsair H80i
MB: Gigabyte 990FXA-UD7.||.RAM: 8 GB Mushkin Blackline DDR3 2000MHz (7-10-8-27-1T)
Case: CoolerMaster HAF 932.||.PSU: Corsair HX750
GPU:HIS IceQ 5 Radeon HD 5770 Turbo 1GB.||.Audio: Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro w/ Logitech Z-5300e (5.1, 280W-RMS)
Drive: 2xKingston SSD 40GB RAID0.||.Storage: 6TB (4x500GB Caviar Black RAID0, 2TB Hitachi & 2TB Caviar Green)
 08/19/2010 08:06 AM
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Cyba
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I have an Intel X25-V.
V = Value. (see above, "..cheap Intel SSD..(and) a fast (hopefully) boot drive".) X25-M and X18-M
have better specs. The X25-E (Extreme) is Intel's best. Two of these in RAID-0 would, I'm sure, out-
perform two similarly configured Velociraptors. And two Crucial SSD C300's would probably do blindingly
better.
It's all experimental for me. I won't pay, at the moment, what the companies are currently asking for their
high performance SSDs..which will drop ($$) in a year as the controllers are sorted and consumer interest
picks up.
DL'd the AMD/ATI drivers.
Will reformat, load AHCI in the BIOS, reinstall W7 and install the SB drivers.
They will overwrite MSAHCI which are installed automatically when you set the BIOS for AHCI and install
W7?
 08/19/2010 09:11 AM
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QB the Slayer
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Yes... if you use the AMD AHCI drivers after your OS is installed it will over-write the MS AHCI drivers that Win 7 will install. I suggest doing tests with both drivers before making a final decision if you are interested in seeing the differences for yourself.

From what I have found/understood... when using a single SSD it is best to use the MS AHCI drivers, since they are currently the only option on an AMD platform that will pass the TRIM command through to the drive.

Best of luck and if you need any help/info I am glad to share my expertise since I have gone down a similar path. My Kingston SSDNow 40GB is actually a X25-M with half the bandwidth cut out of it or something like that. Basically a crippled X25-M, hopefully one day I can splurge and get myself a nice Vertex 2

Sweet just went to ne and saw this:
OCZ Agility 2 OCZSSD2-2AGTE60G 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive
$156 before $10 Mail in rebate

QB

-------------------------

The MONSTER HTPC

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 965 C2 (140W).||.Cooler: Corsair H80i
MB: Gigabyte 990FXA-UD7.||.RAM: 8 GB Mushkin Blackline DDR3 2000MHz (7-10-8-27-1T)
Case: CoolerMaster HAF 932.||.PSU: Corsair HX750
GPU:HIS IceQ 5 Radeon HD 5770 Turbo 1GB.||.Audio: Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro w/ Logitech Z-5300e (5.1, 280W-RMS)
Drive: 2xKingston SSD 40GB RAID0.||.Storage: 6TB (4x500GB Caviar Black RAID0, 2TB Hitachi & 2TB Caviar Green)
 08/20/2010 04:21 AM
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Cyba
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"when using a single SSD it is best to use the MS AHCI drivers, since they are currently the only option on an AMD platform that will pass the TRIM command through to the drive. "
Yep. That's what I've found. It appears trim is enabled (SANDRA) using AMD AHCI but is not monitored. That could mean SANDRA is just reporting the Intel X25-V is Trim capable.
I'd rather use Intel's Toolbox. Seems to me it will optimize (and continue to optimize) what is, after all, their own drive, i.e. it's tailor made. Even if AMD is faster (and I've no idea whether it is) SSD performance will deteriorate over time without Trim.
Hopefully AMD will soon/eventually release their own version.
The 60GB Agility looks good. Of the smaller capacity versions we have the 40GB and 50GB at the 'mo (there is also a 90GB.) The 50GB is close to $400 and will increase when GST (tax) rises shortly.
Pity Newegg doesn't sell internationally.
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