I took a chance and opend a ticket at support.ati.com to draw their attention to the issue affecting XP users of the HD3200 platform integrated into the 780G chipsets. The details and a rather unsatisfactory workaround (enable dual monitors) are below. I opened a ticket and a bug report was opened with the Catalyst Crew.

What would be great is if anyone having the same platform can also open a ticket. I have requested that they give me the bug reference number so that anyone else who opens a ticket can say "me too" and quote that number. I will post back if they can give it to me.

-----

Hi. It seems that all boards based on the 780G chipset have the same problem: slow 2D performance in Windows XP, which is especially evident in web browsers (including both firefox and IE) while scolling on graphics-heavy sites. TO see how widespread the issue is, perform some internet searches for 780G scrolling problem or similar terms. Even with the latest Catalyst 8.8 the issue is very evident. CPU utilisation by the browser during the scrolling operation is very high - much higher than on other platforms.

However, there is a very interesting workaround which shows that it is likely fixable within the Catalyst drivers. If 2 monitors are enabled, the scrolling issue pretty much disappears! Browser CPU utilisation is still high, but perhaps not quite so high as before, and the scrolling is smooth.
Also, it appears that Vista does not have this problem, which again points to the possibility of a software issue.

I do not see any knowledgebase article with this information under your HD3200 category. Could you possibly investigate and hopefully bugfix this issue as it is critical for many users? Many thanks for your kind
attention.

I have same problem.

In 3D - good performance, but in 2D - very bad:

In Firefox 3 - slow scroll performance (very slow when there are many pictures or one big picture). In Photoshop CS3 - when drag image. And so on...

I use catalyst 8.8 (I try all versions since 8.1.). Motherboard GA-MA78G-DS3H with indegrated video HD3200. Windows XP SP2 and SP3

 

Edited: 09/08/2008 at 06:29 PM by expertby

Hi,

Have the same problem with XP x64 and a GA-MA78GPM-DS2H.

Found another workaround on my system.
After starting Firefox, I changed one 3D setting in the ATI Tray Tool.
After that the scrolling is fine until the next start of Firefox.

I hope ATI will fix this with the next driver version.

yea.. same problem here.. 3d games are hell fast.. 2d.. is sooo slow.. frets on fire.. 1 fps? web browsing.. 1 fps? viewing pictures.. 1 fps? running heavy game.. 100 fps... whats wrong guys? IGP should be fast in 2d.. and dedicated card in 3d.. or iam wrong? [is possible to force IGP to work in 2d and auto turn off dedi card? and do other way in 3d?]

-------------------------
i chuj

Thanks to gmarsh for oppening this thread.

I have the same issue but on Vista 32 bit SP1 (Home PRemium). Although I do notice poor 2D graphics performance when browsing, the problem is more general i.e. it applies when I dragg any window over another open window (even the windows explorer that has not any comlex graphics).I have the gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H (rev.1.0). Screen Resolution is 1920x1200.

I submitted a ticket to AMD on this issue descibing the probme . I will keep you posted on the resolution (hopefully) of this issue.

Actually the reply I got from AMD support was that they had submitted a bug report to the Catalyst Crew. There is no reference number. So if anyone wishes to report the same bug, I encourage them to do so via the Catalyst Crew channel:

http://ati.supportcenteronline.com/ics/survey/survey.asp?deptID=894&surveyID=486&type=web

You can select Radeon HD3200 as the product, and it allows you to paste web links (e.g. to this message thread) in one of the fields too. You are not guaranteed a response but I've been told the submissions do get read.

It seems that, on *any* platform, the browser task (e.g. iexplore.exe) causes high CPU utilization while scrolling...you can see it in Task Manager...but on HD3200 it is extremely high and the scrolling issue is very visible. I suppose there's a possibility some users may not notice it under some scenarios, but it appears more than likely that on HD3200 in general, will have this issue.

By the way, my platform is a clean install of XP SP3 (French! for a friend) on J&W mainboard model JW-RS780UVD-AM2+(128M), 2x1GB RAM, AMD X2 5400+ Black Edition. In default settings, the issue was pretty bad. Even if I really overclock the GPU, I can't see much difference. I noticed the problem right away and then doing some google searches told me I was not alone. One particular search turned up the interesting "workaround" of enabling 2 monitors...try it, it really works! But of course we don't want to be forced to enable dual-mon just to workaround this issue...

Hi gmarsh,

how do you enable two monitors ? in Bios? in Catalyst Center ?..

Is it a simple software configuration change or we need to hook-up a 2nd monitor to have this done?

I got a pretty generic response back from AMD tech support prompting me to a knwoledge-database article on software lockups. This is not a lock-up issue but a performance default appearing even with their latest drivers (standard configuration). So, I also submitted the issue to the Catalyst Crew team you pointed at.

BTW, here is the exact description of the issue reported:

I experience very poor graphics performance of the 780G (ATI Radeon HD 3200) chip that is integrated onto my gigabyte mATX motherboard GA-MA78GM-S2H (rev.1.0).
OS: VISTA Home Premieum 32bit, SP1.
Display: Samsung SyncMaster 2493HM, 1920x1200 resolution.
Memory: G-Skill 2GB,CL4-4-4-12(DDR2-800)
BIOS: Award ver.F4 (30 April 2008)

Problem Details:
1. When I open more than one windows and then I drag one window across the screen, the screen refresh rate is very slow especially over the screen area of the overlapping windows. This results in trailing ghosting of the window frame as well as slow refresh of the underlying window. This seems to be application independent! Even dragging windows without graphics (i.e. windows explorer) over any other underlying open application the problem is very pronounced. In addition, the CPU load (AMD X2 4850e)is reaching ~80% during the window-drag operation.
2. Within Windows Explorer, when I expand a directory with many sub-directories, the list is not re-drawn quickly; some ghosting (vertical lines) are drown when expanding/contracting the sub-directories due to slow 2D performance that can not keep up. Eventually the screen appears correctly.

In conclusion, the integrated 780G (HD3200) chip's 2D performance is too slow and frustrating for using it for simple desktop for 2D applications on large monitors with display resolution of 1900x1200.
I hope this is fixed in the upcoming Catalyst drivers so that this chip can be used not only within HTPC configurations but also for quiet standard 2D desktop use!

I reported this issue to AMD - Customer Care & ATI Catalyst Crew Feedback four months ago,but amd does nothing about it.

 

Solution from AMD - Customer Care

Dear Customer,

To help you determine if warranty service is required on a technical issue you are experiencing, please follow the four-step Warranty process below:

 

STEP 1: SEARCH THE ATI CUSTOMER CARE KNOWLEDGEBASE

 

When experiencing a technical issue please visit our KNOWLEDGEBASE to find answers to your questions prior to requesting warranty service. Please note that over 80% of the video cards returned to ATI Technologies for Warranty Service are tested functional.

ATI Technologies recommends that you have the latest drivers to optimize the performance of your product. These are available from our Drivers Download page.

 

Here is a list of examples that likely DO NOT require warranty service.

1. System restarts to a black screen after installation.
2. Display corruption.
3. Random system hangs.
4. Game or Application performance.

STEP 2: CHECK IF THE PRODUCT IS ELIGIBLE FOR WARRANTY SERVICE

1. Check for the Standard Warranty Period  (also located in your product manual) 
2. Check that your product is a Retail-Packaged* "BUILT-BY ATI"

* Please note that OEM, Partner and System Builder products (eg. DELL, Sapphire, Connect3D) are not eligible for Warranty Service from ATI. 

STEP 3:  OBTAIN REQUIRED INFORMATION

Please collect the following information which will be required to process the Return Materials Authorization (RMA) form:

1. Product Serial Number (white sticker located on the front/back of your ATI card) 
2. Product Part Number (begins with 102, white sticker located on the front/back of your ATI card) 
3. Contact Information (name, address, phone number and email)

STEP 4: PROCEED WITH RETURN MATERIALS AUTHORIZATION (RMA) FORM BELOW

NOTE: If you have a Radeon X1300 or X1600 AGP Graphics card in a Dell computer system, please visit Knowledge Base article 737-21875 before submitting a warranty service request.

 

Online Return Materials Authorization (RMA) Form

 

DISCLAIMER

The information presented in this document is for informational purposes only and may contain technical inaccuracies, omissions and typographical errors. AMD reserves the right to revise this information and to make changes from time to time to the content hereof without obligation of AMD to notify any person of such revisions or changes.

AMD MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES WITH RESPECT TO THE CONTENTS HEREOF AND ASSUMES NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY INACCURACIES, ERRORS OR OMISSIONS THAT MAY APPEAR IN THIS INFORMATION. AMD SPECIFICALLY DISCLAIMS ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IN NO EVENT WILL AMD BE LIABLE TO ANY PERSON FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, SPECIAL OR OTHER CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES ARISING FROM THE USE OF ANY INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN, EVEN IF AMD IS EXPRESSLY ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.

Experiencing same issues from the start, with all driver versions... (Windows XP SP3, GigaByte MA78GPM-DS2H)

The performance issue is most significant while using Firefox 3. It seems like IE6 is not affected by this.

Most funny thing is, that I found a method, how to temporaly "disable" the bug. Following these steps:

1. Open application (web browser) and get it to a state where the performance issue is visible (load certain page)

2. Open Catalyst Control Center (Advanced Mode) -> 3D -> Mipmap Detail Level

3. Change the value to "Performance" -> click Apply. Change it back -> click Apply.

4. Switch back to the affected application (browser) and you will notice that the problem is gone..

But don't be too happy, the issue will return soon, mostly after switching between a few windows and playing around with dragging them and scrolling.

Looks like it might be related to some OpenGL bug combined with some sort of a memory leak. As when you repeat the above mentioned procedure again, it allways makes the performance issues dissapear for a limited time (like until some memory gets filled or a buffer gets overflowed).

Hope they fix this nasty thing soon as I'm really fed up allready with browsing certain sites at a 1 fps rate! And switching to IE6 is not really an option...

My 2c to this matter...  Cya! dW.

Me too. Slow scrolling and slow screen redraw when windows are moved over other windows. XP SP3 + brand new Foxconn 780G board (purchased this week). Using latest drivers. Flash video and even bluray playback is fine. Only window rendering and scrolling appears to be broken.

since I have a dual boot with XP and Vista, I tried on XP as well. I can say that in Vista things are worse than XP (maybe due to the resources required by Vista).

As far as my last comment on the reduced effect when dragging a window over another window of the SAME application: when for example I expand outlook on the screen and I drag around an email window the problem is minimal. Same when I drag an Excel worksheet window over the Excel background window or over another excel worksheet window.When during the drag operation windows of different application are crossed rendering becomes reeaaaly slooow.

I cannot generalize this observation though since it is not the same case with windows explorer: for e.g. if I maximize a win_explorer window and then open a new one (win_explorer) to dragg it around the problem is still veery noticable.

This behavior is pretty annoying and if AMD does not fix this I see this chipset will be sold only for HTPC application... since video performance is solid (anyway, this was the target use case of the 780G chip especially when combined with a low power X2 AMD processor). It's a pitty though, since it could make a very nice platform for all those people who need a quiet and powerful platform for standard desktop usage. I am on standby before I buy a second 780G mobo for such a use (the current one I am working on is destined for my new HTPC).

    IMHO the 780G does not make a good board for a HTPC-- there are some major flaws and missing features, also has some excellent points, but the bads are more important than the goods.

  Driver support has been brutal, hwAccel still broken, getting better but ever ever so slow, seems 1 step foward, 2 back-- compared to a g45 that only been around few weeks, they have only some minor bugs left to fix-- most are related to 3rd party software, thats not the case with AMD

  Sound-- for a modern HTPC they don't support HD pass-thru sound, heck even the older Nvidia platforms do that. Thats goes to the 790 chipset too-- doesn't make alot of sense to me.

  The 4850e X2 was what made me jump into AMD-- excellent chip, unfortemely the rest of the platform not up to par. Cool and quiet is also broken now (XP SP3), AMD doesn't seem to care at all from e-mails me and other have sent them. there are amny many other "small" issues that jsut don't seem to get resolved, some are 3 montsh old now--- i always had ATI products, but this will most likely be the last one.. give the G45 a try, you'll like it-- i do.

it does look like the problem is global, in the sense that it appears in both platforms (XP and VISTA) and that the screen rendering is slow when browser scrolling or when dragging windows over other windows irrespective of the applicaitons.  In my case (Vista/1920x1200) where the reolution is elevated it is particularly obvious that the 780g engine cannot keep-up.

What I noticed though is that when dragging a window of a given application over a background of the same application (say an email over the outlook bkg) the effect is minimal (nearly negligible). Do you experience the same behavior?

lykos: I just tried this on my system (running at 1360x768). I only see this effect in Firefox: when moving Firefox windows over a Firefox background, things a bit better than when moving an IE7 windows over a Firefox background. The difference is smaller than I expected, with window rendering still basically broken in both cases.

hmm

i have Xp64
3300 and same issue even in 1280/960 so... this drivers are bugged in 2D rendering.. not TO SLOW in 3D games card is very fast HL2 = 100 FPS stalker is running smooth on full details but windows is hanging for few seconds.. 2d games are "choking" even system browsing

-------------------------
i chuj

don't you think this could be a power play problem?

-------------------------
Biostar TForce 6100,
AMD Athlon64 3500+ @2.5Gig,
2Gig Kingston Ram (Dual channel),
ATi HD 3870(Power play disabled),
Antec Vcool Extension Duct VGA Cooler,
Seagate 250gig SATA HDD,
CoolerMaster Cosmos 1000 case w/ 2x 120mm fans, Cooler Master 850w,
X-Fi Pro,
Vista x86 H/P SP2beta,
Catalyst 8.12

Hi,

I have the exact same problem and I can probe it is software related... by fixing it!

Well, this is not really a fix, it's a quick fix, but it will make your life easier... and brake Catalyst Control Center...

I don't use Vista so I don't even know if you can use this on vista.

So here it is, for XP:

- right-click on your desktop

- click "properties"

- click the "settings" tab

- click the "advanced" button

- click the "troubleshoot" tab

- move the "hardware acceleration" slider ONE point to the left, so the description says something like "Disable cursor and bitmap accelerations. Use this setting..."

- click "OK" in both opened windows

- enjoy fast scrolling and don't forget to open a ticket in both AMD and ATI to tell them about the issue, this is not a fix, it's a quick fix and I'm sure AMD and ATI can provide a real fix.

Shame on AMD's *NEW AND POWERFUL* puma platform, it gave us false hope... shame on you AMD (btw, I'm not saying this only because this little problem, it has tons of little big problems).

 

darionco

Hi,

tested Catalyst 8.9 with XP x64
Nothing new to this bug :-(

@darionco
Your workaround causes a 25% CPU usage on my system :-(

Hey all, I just about got rid of the lag by following darioncos quick-fix, but instead of ticking the slider only down by one, I moved it all the way down and disabled hardware acceleration completely.

That makes sense beacause, as many people have acknowledged here, the slow performance is a Catalyst problem and that is the software doing the acceleration. You take Catalyst out of the graphics-crunching chain and you get better results (in the 2D performance, anyway. I don't know about 3D). Duh!

Here is what I did:

• right-click on your desktop
• click "properties"
• click the "settings" tab
• click the "advanced" button
• click the "troubleshoot" tab
• move the "hardware acceleration" slider ALL THE WAY to the left, so acceleration is turned off completely.
• click "OK" in both opened windows

I really hope this helps you guys. Can someone please post the URLs where we can file tickets on this problem?

EDIT: If you try to open the Catalyst Control Center after doing this, you will notice the options are now very limited.

And one more thing: To see the 2D-speeds the HD3200 is capable of, I installed the Splashtop software that came with my motherboard (Express Gate for my Asus M3A78-EM) and opened web pages that had scrolled awfully under Windows and voilá! they were scrolling beautifully. So keep pestering the Catalyst people, because this issue can definately be resolved!

Edited: 10/05/2008 at 12:52 PM by morgenthau

Well... it helped but not as much as I expected. Firefox scrolling and Photoshop works just fine, but overall system perfomance slightly degraded. Windows seems to been opening/drawing longer, longer compare to situation when hardware acceleration is full. And the worst part is it is impossible to watch movies when hardware accelereation is disabled. Those are my first impressions with this experiment refere to my system.

Edited: 10/05/2008 at 01:43 PM by goofer

I have a different question. Did anyone experience this 2D poor perfomance on any ATI card other than integrated? I near future I'm planning to buy Radeon 3650, 3850 or maybe even 4850 but if there's a chance that this problem is bound with all ATI products I must consider to say "bye bye" to ATI and buy Nvidia.

Thanks for the input.  I guess with all the various messages here it's easier to assume that it is a driver problem.  If that's the case, it  might be a good thing (if they resolve it in a future driver) because I put on a cooler on my motherboard that is kind of hard to take off once it's in place.  So, replacing the motherboard for me would mean replacing the CPU as well.

As I said before, when installing Unreal Tournament 2004, there are images that changes from one to the next.  With the integrated HD3200 on the Asus M3A78-EM, I can see the images appearing block by block as if the computer is taking lots of time generating the image.  When I tried an X1650XT, the lag was gone.  When I installed an HIS HD 4670, it only lasts for like half a second, but that block by block image appearing is still there is you're staring at the screen and looking for it.

The very same thing applies for 1080p videos.  In other words, X1650XT no lag, HD 4670, tiny bit of lag that you have to look for to see and HD 3200 some lag.

What I find makes the choice difficult is you won't be able to play UT3 or Crysis or anything like that with an X1650XT.  I mean there's just no way.  This leaves you with a choice of modern cards which may have HD improvements but the ones on Nvidia cards are actually off by default.  Not only do you have to enable that but also you may have to adjust the colors to your liking on a Nvidia card.  This means ATI graphics are more user friendly so if you're not used to playing with settings on a graphics card, then you need to learn it when buying a Nvidia card.  Also, the only difference from what I read between the 8800 GT and 9800 GT is the 9800 GT has physics acceleration or whatever they call it again.  That might be a good choice, I'll see later what I want I guess.  Chances are if I get one I would also choose a Thermalright HR-03 with a 92mm Scythe or Nexus fan.

Hi,

Tested just 4 fun 8.10RC2.
Nothing new :-(

ATI answered to my ticket - for them only a problem from Firefox :-(

Well, it seems that ATI doesn't see a problem. I finally make up my mind and decided to buy nvidia card, to exclude this problem in other ATI product. I hope it suits me well. Bye bye ATI...

The race for the first directx 10 compatible IGP was fierce.
AMD came first releasing the HD3200 at least 2 months ahead of Nvidia's Geforce8200.

This market rush is the reason why the chipset has hardware bugs and why driver support is so poor. But it is also the reason why AMD attracted so much more customers for their IGP.

AMD released the RS780 to China first in an attempt to sort out much of the driver problems "on the fly". (poor chinese!)

http://xtreview.com/addcomment-id-4077-view-AMD-RS780-will-start-in-China.html

Now AMD is happy, pockets full, and we are screwed.

I too was a happy nforce user that jumped on the RS780 midnight train. Come on guys, we have to at least give them some credit as their strategy really worked.

I would very much want to say that installing an external graphics card would solve the problems but I can't. AMD's chipsets suffer from poor AHCI support (detection delays / long boot times) and poor USB 2.0 berformance.

Thats it for me.

Edited: 10/17/2008 at 07:50 PM by deej

Which Nvidia chipsets are good then?  I'm kind of confused in that department. lol

EDIT:  I'm not going to Intel for several reasons.  First, the Intel mounting mechanism I've read is a major pain in the rear.  Second, by the time AMD comes out with their 3.0 GHz Phenom in December '08 or January '09, it will likely be pretty close to the E8500 in Unreal Tournament 3 performance.  And the fact that the new Intel core still reveals in some more benchmarks that it can't surpass the Core2 (unless this is really a driver issue they can correct in the future). Also, the new Shanghai and Deneb processors will get them even closer to Intel Core2 performance.

Well for business use, we were quite happy with Geforce 6150.

But for a gaming pc I wouldn't even think AMD - even on nvidia chipset.

Hi!

I've got the same problem on my GigaByte MA78G-DS3H with an Athlon X2 4850e and 2 GBytes of RAM (Kingston). 3D performance is awesome, but 2D... well, could be better, especially when using Firefox 3.0.3 (XP Pro SP3) where I get the same problems with scrolling as already mentioned here.

Could the problem being fixed if I install an additional graphics-card? If ATI can't/won't fix this problem in the near future, I would do that instead. Too bad, that I couldn't use my old ATI card (Radeon X850 Pro), because the mainboard doesn't have AGP anymore.

-------------------------

Mainboard: GigaByte MA78G-DS3H
CPU: AMD Athlon X2 4850e
RAM: Kingston ValueRAM DIMM 4 GB DDR2-800
OS: Windows XP Professional SP3
PCIe: GeCube Radeon HD3450

Hi guys... Well, I found the solution for my problem: it was not the driver - it turned out to be the Samsung TV (Series 6). It has an option called ("Cinema mode" or movie mode). When it was activated, there were lags on the hdmi image. With it off, I have no more problems watching 720p or 1080p movies. But the low 2D performance still remains...

-------------------------
HTPC-> Athlon X2 3800+ / ASUS M3A78-EM / 2x1GB DDR2-800 / 320GB SATAII / Samsung LCD Series 6 - 40" / Still need a nice case...

I have been following this thread for a while now. I owe a Gigabyte GA-MA790GP-DS4H with HD3300 and got exactly the same problems with 2D performance. I got 2GB of RAM and a 4850e CPU alongside it.

I had a few conversations with Gigabyte and ATI using their tickets systems, but no luck so far. So far to me there seems to be no other cause than the Catalyst drivers. Hopefully we will get working drivers soon.

I did found out that the new Google Chrome browser has barely any scrolling issues like Firefox 3 has. You could consider downloading Iron Portable (a Chrome variant, but more secure in terms of privacy and it won't modify any registry items or create folders on your HDD). http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron_download.php . Personally this browser is not sufficient for my needs, but it makes an enormous difference in terms of performance. 2D performance in other applications remain problematic though.

I was wondering whether an additional HD3450 videocard would solve this problem completely? And can I keep using my regular HDMI connection in that case? If this would solve the problem, I don't mind sticking in a HD3450 for a few weeks, they are very cheap. Please let me know.

I just found the latest 8.11 RC1 drivers, still in testing fase, but it has a new OpenGL and new 2D Driver. Perhaps this will solve our issues.

You can find the driver here:
http://www.driverheaven.net/vista-radeon-display-drivers/171282-catalyst-8-11-rc1-8-542-download.html

If anyone has tested it already, let me know what your results are.

THIS POST IS RELATED TO THE 780G ALTHOUGH IT DISCUSSES A FEW THINGS.

8800GS (9600GSO) vs HD4670



OK, I wanted to say first off that the 9600GSO is the same as the 8800GS. However, I read that Nvidia planned on coming out with a 9600GSO that would be less powerful. If you wanted to have an idea how powerful it is, it’s a slightly slower version of the 8800GT. On the techpowerup benchmarks in Unreal Tournament 3, it had about the same framerates as the HD4670.



Another thing that I wanted to note was that I took off the Glaciator heatsink off the Asus 8800GS (I sealed the anti-static bag and put it in the freezer to do it lol) and installed a Thermalright HR-03 GT and then put on a 92mm Nexus fan. (OK, I have to say Thermalright really has to provide a way better fan mounting mechanism so you can install the fan more easily and more snug. That was a nightmare. Also, it would be nice to be able to use the Nexus rubber mounts to put on the fan.) Yes, it may seem like an expensive proposition for a cheap card ($53 CDN after $30 rebate if I get it), but I wanted to see how quiet my computer could get with all Nexus fans in my computer on a fan controller (Sunbeam Rheobus Extreme). In any case, I discovered that by lowering the fan speed to 0, I was able to determine that the only source of real sound comes from my Fortron PSU which has a Yate Loon 120mm fan (even though those fans are apparently the same as Nexus). I’ve determined that the only way to get more silence would be to have a Silverstone Nightjar ST45NF power supply and have a case that has solid metal all the way around except the back. (The case I have has a plastic front but also holes on the side panel.) I might also need a desk where the computer is surrounded by wood if you know what I mean. That would affect temperatures but I would have silence.



The reason I got the 8800GS was to confirm that my HD4670 had some problems with my Asus M3A78-EM motherboard (780G chipset). I noticed with the 8800GS installed on that mobo, when installing UT2004, that after inserting the disk in my drive, it would start reading the DVD faster and also then after clicking on install, it would start way quicker. The problems with this motherboard are discussed here:

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=279&threadid=99753&STARTPAGE=3&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

Also, the images did not appear block by block during the UT2004 installation with the 8800GS. I ended up deciding to keep the 8800GS for that computer and putting the HD4670 in my other computer for reasons I’ll describe later. I can also add that with both video cards on that motherboard (Asus M3A78-EM), my 3DMark06 scores were the lowest compared with other results online. I’ve tried swappping hardware and different drivers and looking at various settings. I even got OCZ official support to determine exact settings for the RAM. So, I would hesitate to recommend that motherboard. (If I happen to get another mobo/CPU/RAM for my other computer in the next 3 months, I’ll post results on the anandtech motherboard forum if I resolve the problem .)



The Geforce 8800GS:

* very smooth movement when turning in a video game (way more playable)

* 1080p Quicktime movie trailers look more pale but somehow seems more ‘natural’

* turning on noise reduction and edge enhancement causes flickering in 1080p Quicktime movie trailers



The HD 4670:

* disturbing blur when moving mouse quickly while playing video games

* 1080p Quicktime movie trailers have richer colors (seems more enjoyable)

* causes delays with Asus M3A78-EM motherboard (and maybe other 780G mobos)



I’d like to say here that the blur when moving my mouse in a video game is not just an issue with the HD4670, but also my old X1650XT. I now feel like I had been victimized for a long time with my video card because I didn’t know the difference. The 8800GS gives me a more natural feel and I should be able to play way better now with no hesitation when I want to turn quickly. So, you can see how that changes everything. That’s why I decided to keep the 8800GS in my other machine and use that as a gaming machine. And I decided to keep the HD4670 and use it in my work computer because of the richer colors on videos.



Since the 8800GS had paler colors than the HD4670 while playing 1080p videos, I installed Asus Splendid for the 8800GS to see if I could get richer colors but it didn’t seem to make much of a difference.



Just so you know, with the ATI CCC, pulldown detection is under Avivo Video> Basic Quality. With the Nvidia Control Panel, Edge enhancement and Noise reduction is under Video & Television >Adjust video image settings. These features are described in the tomshardware article:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/avivo-vs-purevideo,1492-3.html



I then decided to test 1080p Quicktime movie trailers with the HD4670 on my older computer (2.4GHz Athlon single core socket 939). There was no audio lag once I installed the HDMI driver (for some of the 1080p Quicktime videos). (Why some and not others, I have no idea. They were all on the same Apple website.) (I couldn’t find the HDMI driver on the AMD website so lol, I got it from the Asus website for the M3A78-EM motherboard. For whatever reason, that worked. lol) I’m using on-board audio so I’m not sure why the audio lag would be gone for some videos after installing the HDMI driver. However, with pulldown detection enabled in the CCC, there was audio lag.



By the way, does anyone think that 33’C to 38’C is normal for an 8800GS with Thermalright HR-03 GT with a fan on it? (I read using an HR-03 GT with no fan on an 8800 series is not recommended.) The only program that would detect the temps was Asus SmartDoctor and those were the temperatures.



Both computers have WinXP and 2GB of RAM.



So, for now, I’ll try to play all videos on my work computer with the HD4670 unless I see some lag. Then I can use my gaming computer with the dual core 2.8GHz and 8800GS for those videos that show lag on my single core computer. If I notice that’s not acceptable after trying lots of videos, then I’ll get a new mobo/CPU/RAM for my work computer. I don’t have a Blu-Ray drive but if I do get one, it may have to be an external one so I could test both computers.



My hardware on my gaming rig:

Asus M3A78-EM

Athlon X2 5400+ Brisbane

2GB OCZ special ops 800MHz RAM

Asus 8800GS

My work computer:
Abit AT8 32X
Athlon 4000+ San Diego
2GB OCZ Platinum 400MHz RAM
His IceQ HD4670

I’d also like to add that my work computer is mostly passive so it’s nearly silent. I could not really hear the HIS HD4670 in my work computer.

If I do get another mobo/CPU/RAM for my work computer, it may be a Phenom CPU next time with 1066MHz RAM to make sure I eliminate any possible source of lag. And I would choose a mobo with Nvidia chipset and perhaps Corsair RAM. I prefer full-sized ATX mobos with on on-board video.

I have experienced a similar problem in another program: I'm using aMSN (latest version) for instant messeging, because I don't like Microsoft's MSN or Live Messengers. Well, while chatting there is no problem at all, but yesterday in the evening I had a video chat with a friend (I don't have a Webcam, but he does). When the webcam window is opened (approx. 200x200 pixels in size, I guess) the performance sinks rapidly and the CPU usage rises up to 30 - 40 %. Hardware acceleration is always on. As soon as this window was closed this lack of performance were gone and CPU usage sunk to a normal value.

Maybe this is just an issue with aMSN, I don't know, because it was the first time I used that function with this program. I have to look into aMSN's support forum...

-------------------------

Mainboard: GigaByte MA78G-DS3H
CPU: AMD Athlon X2 4850e
RAM: Kingston ValueRAM DIMM 4 GB DDR2-800
OS: Windows XP Professional SP3
PCIe: GeCube Radeon HD3450

i've tried the 8.11rc1 drivers  ... i had no problems installing them (790gx ... asus m3a78-t)

and ... the problems are still there ...

 

Edited: 10/25/2008 at 01:30 PM by r_p_

Font Smoothing [Disable] : good performance

Font Smoothing [Standard] : less performance

Font Smoothing [ClearType] : bad performance

I've installed Vista Business yesterday and everything was worked fine. No more lockups and slow downs. It is so sad,  the hardware manufacturers are forcing us to use Vista and not caring of XP drivers.

 

 

 

 

Well, that's bad. I'm not going to migrate to Vista under any circumstances, only to get something to work, that is supposed to work on ANY OS!

Anyway, I'm sick of waiting for AMD/ATI to fix this issue, so I ordered a graphics card. And then I hope this issue will be past! What irony...

-------------------------

Mainboard: GigaByte MA78G-DS3H
CPU: AMD Athlon X2 4850e
RAM: Kingston ValueRAM DIMM 4 GB DDR2-800
OS: Windows XP Professional SP3
PCIe: GeCube Radeon HD3450

So... I installed my new card (GeCube Radeon HD3450), reinstalled the drivers (8.10)... and what shall I say? The performance issues in Firefox 3 are no more!

Good thing, though, but I hate to know that I had to spend 50 Euro for an additional card only to get this freaking issue go.

-------------------------

Mainboard: GigaByte MA78G-DS3H
CPU: AMD Athlon X2 4850e
RAM: Kingston ValueRAM DIMM 4 GB DDR2-800
OS: Windows XP Professional SP3
PCIe: GeCube Radeon HD3450

I' have the same problems with my new Ati x4870.

1. The scrolling in the Internet Explorer 7.

2. When I scroll over my Rocketdock the icons don't smooth anymore.

The CPU load is about 30%.

I hope there will be a new driver which stops that problems in 2D-applications, otherwise I will give the graphics card back.

My old x1950xtx hasn't such problems.

Just to add to the list of disgrunted users.

Biostar TA790GX A2+

AMD Athlon X2 BE-2400

4 GB Corsair XMS2 RAM

Booting off 2x Samsung HD103UJ in Raid 1

Windows XP SP3 (32-bit)

SOYO Topaz S 24" LCD (1920x1200 @ 60 Hz)

I've already made a extensive thread with my troubles at Anandtech (http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=32&threadid=2234466&enterthread=y).

 

• DVI output unusable.
• HDMI output generally okay, but during "heavy" graphics use, such as a full screen iTunes visualization, the screen blanks out. If I drag a firefox window with many graphics in it around very fast, the screen blanks out as well.
• I've tested the screen on a Macbook and it's fine.
• I used it with my old AGP 4x GeForce 6200 and it worked fine.
• I'm using Catalyst 8.11 drivers.
• Using Iron Portable alleviates the slow scrolling problem. Furthermore, I can drag the screen around smoothly.
• I've played with the UMA Frame Buffer memory size.
• According to GPU-Z, my GPU clock is 0 MHz (see http://www.astro.caltech.edu/~et/images/hd3300.gif)
• The GPU clock varies between 60-700 in the AMD OverDrive Utility. It appears that the display blanks out when the GPU clock goes too high.
• I've tried disabling Cool 'n Quiet, GPU throttling, etc. to no avail.
• I've updated to the latest BIOS.

 

any1 tried 8.12 official ?

I heard that 8.12 Beta RC3 is newer than 8.12 official

I just installed 8.12 official and the firefox scrolling is much improved. My display still blanks out when using a full screen itunes visualization. Quickly dragging the corner of a firefox windw (and thus resizing it quickly) is also much smoother. Does anyone know if these problems persist in XP 64-bit?

Hi,

Installed 8.12 on XPx64 without problems.
Seems that the Firefox scroll issue is fixed.

Confirmed

(Catalyst 8.12)

 

I can also confirm this works:

 

AMD 5000+ OC - 2.91 GHz

GigaByte MA78G-DS3H

2 GB RAM

Windows Xp 32 bit SP3

Symantec Antivirus

 

These things are fixed:

Firefox:

- no scroll lag

- no flash lag ... ie on http://www.mediafire.com

- no "top bar notification" lag

- No CTRL+T new tab lag

- No heavy page lag.... ie. http://reader.google.com

Basically Everything is fixed!

 

This site still lags **A bit**.

Hello.

I've had a similar issue with my motherboard since I got it. 

I have a Gigabyte ga-ma78gm-s2h (rev. 1.0), Phenom 8450, 4 gig ram, etc.

Previously, I used a Radeon X300, but decided to try the onboard gfx with this build.  As soon as I noticed the unbelievably slow typing speed on various forums and other sites (like Twitter), I knew something was wrong.

Besides the delayed input on text boxes, my audio was glitching every time I struck a key.  Listining to some tunes while writing my novel was not possible now, when it certainly was before (Opteron 170, Nvidia 6150/430).

I disabled the onboard video and installed the x300 to see if it made a difference.  It did...to some extent.  Text boxes are fine now, but audio is still glitchy while typing.  (This happens with movies, as well.)

I tried everything I can think of.  Onboard audio or pro audio (Mackie Firewire audio interface) doesn't make a difference.

I did a fresh XP install, mucked around with every version of Catalyst driver, enabled/disabled hardware acceleration, etc.  Nothing.

It has to be the chipset.  I have never had these issues before.

The only thing left is to purchase another (non-7-series) motherboard, which I intend to do tomorrow.  Well, either that or get a new video card...hum...

Is there anything else I can try?

Regards.

System Specs:

AMD Phenom 8450

4g OCZ 6400 RAM

Gigabyte ga-ma78gm-s2h (rev. 1.0)

Radeon X300 with 8.12 drivers (DVI-D)

WD Raptor

Other Drives

Mackie Onyx Firewire audio interface

XP Pro SP3 with latest patches

 

I have the the exact same board (rev.1.0) and have the exact same issue where typing can interrupt audio or video - it can apparently be fixed by enabling USB keyboard support in the BIOS - see these two posts on avsforum:

post one

post two

I can confirm 8.12 fixes the browser lag issue.

 

Amazing.  After weeks of fooling with every setting in the bios, it happens to be the one I didn't check because I was using a ps/2 kbd/mouse!

Insane.

Still, I'm sticking to my X300 until everything's 100% in 2D-land.

 

Thanks so much!  Regards.

Yes, I just enabled USB and the problem seems to have gone away. What issue with 2D are you concerned about 8.12 seems to fix the browser lag for me.

Here's how this issue seems to be (partially) fixed for me.

I bought a HD2400 (Legacy PCI 2.2) because i wanted a cheap video card for a dual monitor setup and my board is too old and does not have PCIe and AGP4X cards are nearly impossible to find.

Catalyst driver version: 9.1

Motherboard: GA-8SiML

So i hooked up my syncmaster 2443bw monitor to the DVI port of the card and my IIyama prolite e434s to the ANALOG D-SUB port of the onboard video card (the motherboard is using a SiS 650 with integrated video).

Right away i noticed the slow refresh and lagging screen output when the Windows XP login screen appeared. It seemed even worse while using firefox or IE and it was also present while browsing folders on the hdd.

I removed the old catalyst drivers using the ATI removal utility and installed the latest catalyst drivers. after reboot it seemd that the old drivers had not been removed. strange...I even got a few BSOD's while trying to install the catalyst software.

The only way i could force the HD2400 to get redetected was by removing the SiS 650 VGA drivers and removing the "installed" HD2400 drivers together and rebooting the machine.

I also discovered that the only way to get the video output to display correctly (i.e. send signal out first through DVI on HD2400 instead of onboard port) was to set the VGA boot in the BIOS to "External AGP" which does not make sense to me...

The lagging remained however. Then i discovered that if i set my secondary screen as disconnected in display properties, the lagging issue disappeared! Strangely however, if i set my secondary screen as connected and hooked it up to the D-SUB port of the HD2400 instead of the onboard D-SUB, the lagging would return. So i i haven't been able to even use the dual monitor setup for which i bought the card in the first place.

I don't know if this has something to do with my onboard video which i can't disable in the BIOS, but after reading this thread it seems that other people are experiencing this also with different boards and different cards.

So, has anyone with XP found a solution?  Has anyone tried the chipset with a beta of Windows 7?  Does that solve the problem?

have anyone get 3dmark in your system especialy for 3dmark2003, i tried 3dmark2006 can't run in my system window xp 32bit.

my spech

abit a-s78h

kingston 2x1 gb value 5-6-6-6-18

hardisk seagate 120gb ata

power suplly enlight 400 watt.

i haven't discrete vga now.

thanks.

heh.. we have to wait for 9.0

-------------------------
i chuj

   hummm, i say 12.6!

   

and when the 8.9 comes we have to wait for 9? and when 9.1 comes we have to wait for 9.2and. when....

I've got the same problem.
2D speed is low, while 3D speed is fine.

I'm using a x1950 Pro though.

However, it seems that 2D speed temporarily increases a bit (read: increases, which means that it isn't what it should be) after auto-scrolling for 5 secs in Firefox.

Very annoying issue, and I'm pretty sure that it didn't use to happen with older Catalyst drivers.

Another problem with the 780G: Netflix streaming movies (which uses Windows Media Player) malfunctions and uses a lot of CPU when hardware assitance is enabled in WMP. CPU usage drops dramatically and streaming works better (pause/resume work) when DirectX video acceleration is disabled.  (I am using the latest drivers as of yesterday.) 

Come on AMD: please fix this.  This is not an isolated, unreproducable issue.

JESUS H. CHRIST!  I can't believe other people have had problems with the 780G chipset!  I thought people were going to tell me I was going insane and I couldn't prove it!

I have: Asus M3A78-EM (with 780G chipset and on-board HD3200), Athlon X2 5400+, 2GB OCZ Special Ops RAM, Fortron Blue Storm II 500w PSU, Pioneer DVR-215 and I added a HD4670 which didn't completely solve the problem.

The first thing I noticed is when I was installing UT2004 using the on-board HD3200, the images that pop up on the screen during the installation were appearing block by block as if in slow motion.  With an X1650XT the problem went away. Even the lag during 1080p videos went away.  Then, hoping the problem was gone, I bought an HD4670 for even better performance. Well, this time the slowness during the installation of UT2004 came back but in a less pronounced manner.  And, I can detect a microscopic lag in 1080p videos.  So, it's as if the problem is still there, but it's not as pronounced.

Also, I find there's a tiny bit of lag during normal PC use like when I click on My Documents for example, the idea of seeing the hourglass thing for half a second is really weird.  Is that really such an intensive operation that it would cause an hourglass to show up like that?

I'm using latest drivers and tried different ones and I even swapped hard drive, optical drive, tried MemTest, one stick at a time, in different slots alone and together, blah, blah, blah.

This is kind of a nightmare because I kind of wanted this machine to be a "fun" machine like for gaming and 1080p videos.  I feel dissapointed because of the time and money spent on this.

What annoys me is that the various reviewers seem to have missed this issue completely, resulting in boards based on this chipset being very well-reviewed on the whole. They really dropped the ball on this one. I am sure that many others here base their buying choices on reviews, and if this had been brought up, then it would have had an adverse impact on buying decisions.

Unfortunate that there seems to be no way to elicit an official response from AMD on these issues for mere mortals (i.e. the customers). They claim to listen, but without any way to raise and track trouble tickets, it's one way traffic only.

 

 You guys have to remember something, reviews are mostly interrested on how far a board can be pushed, not how usuable can it be.. And they get this boards when they are brand new, many times with original BIOS and beta stuff all over, they aren't dpoing to tell you every detail they seen wrong, only ( and not all reviews do) the most severe hicups. That said, most dont' pay for the parts they are reviewing, so they have to be nice.  And, it all depends where you read it from, some side with ATI products and all works well, others side with Nvidia, same goes for processors, boards...etc..

  Another thing to consider, not everyone uses the same applications, there are problesm with this board that are application specific, With Google Chrome i had no issues whatsoever browing the net, with IE would barely load and firefox was ok, for the most part..   Alwaya take reviews with a grain of salt..

   

 

I know you're trying to be helpful but those sound like very empty words.  Regardless of the causes, there's still a problem out there and it doesn't seem to be addressed at all.

I guess all we can do is wait for new drivers that have a cure.  I was browsing the  chipset forum and noticed there are practically no other messages for the other chipsets, the 780 had the most "problem" threads on there.  I guess I'll check that forum next time I want to buy a motherboard.

 I'm as pissed as you, as i purchased 2 of this boards and currently one is sitting on a shelf because i can't use it on my HTPC, however i'll type it again, we can't always blame ati or nvidia for that matter.. Does this chipset have problems? Hell, yeah-- lots of them... listen, i will most likely never buy another AMD chipset, i bought a G45 to replace the 780G and that has problems too, not as bad and it's usable but far from perfect...  Anyhow, short is---never go by reviews!

i think it's a problem with powerplay.

if you use a second monitor powerplay won't function and scrolling is no problem.

if you change back to one monitor, the gc is clocked down to ~80-100 mhz ... and the problems start all over again

you can check this with AOD (for example ....)

HOLD ON TO YOUR PANTS PEOPLE!

lol, those letters are big.  I think I may have found the problem.  I used GPU-Z and noticed my HD4670 core was at 165MHz  while the memory was at 249.8MHz.  At load, it was 750MHz for the core and 999MHz for the memory (actually, I think the memory speed is double that in reality).

OK, great.  I told everyone to hold on to their pants but no one answered my question on a couple of forums.

I guess I'll have to ask on more forums on how to disable that downclocking to see if it cures the problem.

Don't waste your time. I can assure you, that it has nothing to do with the downclocking of the GPU/memory. It's a plain OpenGL 2D frame-buffer issue, which - to my own knowledge and experience with it - occurs exclusively at 2D OpenGL operations whenever there is a frame-buffer used. The larger the data-block, the worse the impact..

For example, start Firefox 3.0+ and open (File->Open File or CTRL+O) some higher resolution (1024+) jpeg picture from your hard-drive. Now make sure the browser window is not maximized (set it to something like 70-80% of the total screen size) --> drag the whole window and move it so that it gets out of the screen/desktop from one side --> now try to drag it back to the middle. Viola! There we have our bugged frame-buffer refill operation in full action! The faster you move the window back, the more visible the issue will be.

I'm not sure, how this bug made it into the final releases of so many recent Catalyst drivers without the developers noticing, but it for sure is a nasty thing for the consumers.. Hope they fix it soon..

BTW: I have PowerPlay disabled (standard clocks at desktop, GPU 500+, at least according to AOD & GPU-Z) and it makes no difference. Issue still present with little to no change.

 

Regards..   dW.

Hi,

just for the record: I experience the same problem on my 790GX HD 3300 card (Asus M3A78-T mainboard). Poor perfomance under 2D (e.g. Firefox, Photoshop), no problems under 3D (games, 3D applications). Catalyst driver 8.9.

Hi,

just for the record 2: I experience the same problem on my HP 6736b. Poor perfomance under 2D (e.g. IE, Photoshop), no 3D games tryed yet. Catalyst driver 8.9.

isgust;

Well, I used a HIS HD 4670 with my Asus M3A78-EM and there's still the issue in a microscopic way.

I tried the solution (to prevent downclocking) from:
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?s=840e9ff3567e5fe03100c632d863e9f5&showtopic=348152&pid=4198980&st=0&#entry4198980

and I was still able to see the microscopic lag when looking at the images changing during the UT2004 installation. (Yes, I did use GPU-Z to see the speeds.) I can’t easily go back to an X1000 series card so I might just consider Nvidia next. I don’t know if it’s the chipset doing that with new generation ATI cards or if it’s just some feature of the new ATI cards.

When I’ll have more money I might just try out a Geforce 8800 GT or 9800 GT. I’m pretty sure if there’s some microscopic lag when someone moves their arm in a 1080p video that it might be still due to that little oddity whatever that I can’t put my finger on. It might be that the drivers are immature or that I did not install a valid copy of WinXP yet. I’m only going to install a valid copy once CAT 8.10 arrives.

If you wanted to see what you need to click on to do the same modification:
http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cccscreenme4.png

Here’s one screenshot of the default settings and then one with the modification (although I don’t know if that’s the right way to do it, I had video corruption for a second before it clicked back to normal).

http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=profilescreen2bq3.png

http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=profilescreen3hu4.png

What's worst, this problem effects not only 2D applications etc. I can't use my old TV tuner Leadtek Winfast TV 2000 Expert. Everytime I open PVR2 application and try to watch any channel - system hangs permanently :/

Me too.

I have a Biostar TA790GX A2+ mobo. I experienced the same slowdown issue on Firefox, thunderbird, Deep Burner and several applications. The windows desktop and menu itself is too slow.

The issue is still exist in the 8.10 catalyst package.

I've tested the leaked drivers (latest 8.11 RC1 drivers) this package is not supporting the 790GX chipset (HD3300)

We're waiting for the miracle... Praise to ATI....

 

 

Edited: 10/25/2008 at 03:18 AM by GreaT

Purplefan,

NVIDIA even in cs the optimize OpenGL looks much smooth even the movement of the mouse. That's why people prefer NVIDIA that don't know much about pcs something practical nothing technical.

With ATI I see that the OpenGL without the optimize against NVIDIA reponds faster sometimes. However, NVIDIA still seems much smoother.

Is not that I am fanboy just want to tell ATI what NVIDIA has in favor. I like Cat much better than Forceware, too many options in NVIDIA sometimes you don't know what it works for. Game developers should program better and make patches so cards do not need to rely on fixes. It makes them to look like a cheat.

Unreal Gold or Quake 2 movement is really cool and fast. Glide looks more realistic in explosive effects OpenGL looks more technical and less realistic. Direct X is ruling right now.

Edited: 10/24/2008 at 12:21 PM by asm88

or ati is trying to fix it..
if you are so great coder and you think its easy, why dont you help them find the problem?

-------------------------
i chuj

I think a bunch of us posted detailed info to help them out.  What can we do?  We're kind of helpless here.

That's ATI's job even if some of us are programmers we won't waste our time releasing something that isn't our job.

These guys should had learned better programming skills if they can't do their jobs that means they need training to find the issue or maybe get better programmers.

I kind of wish that guy who made the Omega drivers could fix the problem.  I thought he wrote somewhere Jesus Christ told him to make drivers.  I wish Jesus Christ would tell him to make a 780G chipset driver. 

Hi,

I have the same problem with Gigabyte GA-MA78G-DS3H motherboard.

Does anybody know if this problem also appears when IGP is in crossfire with, HD 3450, for example.

Hi guys!!

I just bought a Asus M3A78-EM this weekend. I spent the hole week trying to fix this until I found this topic.

I am having the firefox problem too! So I tried to downgrade Catalyst to 8.5 (and it didn't work, the windows freezes after booting up) and yesterday I tried 8.10 (the CCC crashes, so I can't start it)...

I was so worried because I could even not play downloaded 720p mkvs. Lags happens all the time, specially in camera moving scenes. So I overclocked my Athlon X2 3800+ from 2.0GHz to 2.4GHz (4400+ equivalent) and the problem was the same

So I think this is related to AMD drivers too... Hope they fix it soon!

It was supposed to be my first HTPC, but it's more like a nightmare!

 

 

-------------------------
HTPC-> Athlon X2 3800+ / ASUS M3A78-EM / 2x1GB DDR2-800 / 320GB SATAII / Samsung LCD Series 6 - 40" / Still need a nice case...

You know, as I posted before, I did see some visual effects I did not like with the on-board HD3200 and an HD4670 that I installed.  It seems there were no issues with an X1650XT but I can't really used that since it's in another machine and not powerful enough for UT3.  So, I ordered an 8800GS.  It may arrive here this week.  So, I hope I'll be able to post results.

Anyway, about the CCC crashing.  You could try downloading the redistributable package for dotnet 3.0 and installing that.

Hi everybody!

Thanks for the information. Now I could prove the problem is really with the driversp. I tested some of your sugestions, like removing some of the hardware acceleration, it worked for web pages, but not for 720p/1080p videos.

So I put my EVGA 8800GTS 512mb from my personal computer in my HTPC (Asus M3A78-EM). And like a miracle, everything worked fine! There were no more lags in firefox or 2D moving windows and I could play the videos (without hardware acceleration - I used CoreAVC, that uses only the CPU for decoding) without lags... so the problem is indeed with AMD video drivers...

Hope the fix it fast!!

Anyone have another workaround until we have better drivers? RMA it?

-------------------------
HTPC-> Athlon X2 3800+ / ASUS M3A78-EM / 2x1GB DDR2-800 / 320GB SATAII / Samsung LCD Series 6 - 40" / Still need a nice case...

I can't believe that a problem like this hasn't already been discovered and fixed by the ATI Team.  I see that many of you have desktops with this chipset.  I bought a laptop that also has this chipset.  It is an HP 1004 NR laptop that i bought from bestbuy.  It shipped with windows vista home premium originally.  I had no 2d window slowdown problems with vista...just many many many other problems that in the end made me switch back to windows xp. 

They claim it is "Only" firefox...this is definately not the case.  I use this laptop for work.  There is a very small very simple program i use every day.  This program runs amazingly fast on even some of our old toshiba laptops running windows 98 with old 486 processors and less than 32 MB of ram.  It runs so slow in full screen mode on my new "Powerful" dual core 4gb ram HD3200 laptop that it is almost unusable.  I have to keep it out of full screen mode to even be able to use it effectively.

I have been so so dissappointed with this chipset.  My old laptop, which had less than half of the specs of this new one, could run circles around this one.  It was only a single core amd processor with 1gb ram!!

I am at a loss as to what i should do.  I can't use vista because i had way too many problems with it and it ran too slow on many things that run fast in xp.  I want to use windows xp, but if they don't fix this problem soon i'm going to lose my mind.

I just don't understand how a computer with this type of "good" hardware under the hood can run slower in some scenarios than and old piece of crap laptop from the late 90's.

AMD/ATI DRIVER TEAM...PLEASE FOR MY SANITY AND FOR THE REST OF US HAVING PROBLEMS, TRY TO ACTUALLY FIX THIS PROBLEM INSTEAD OF BLAMING IT ON FIREFOX OR SOME OTHER PROGRAM.  THE PROBLEMS EXTEND FAR FURTHER THAN JUST A PROGRAM.  MY ENTIRE WINDOWS SYSTEM IS SLUGGISH.  NOT EVEN CLOSE TO WHAT THE PERFORMANCE SHOULD BE FOR THE HARDWARE I HAVE.  TRUST ME I KNOW, I BUILD COMPUTERS ALL THE TIME.  PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!

If anyone knows a better way to get their attention please let us all know.

Edited: 10/17/2008 at 10:25 AM by joshunger

yea.. cat 8.9. cat 8.10 cat 8.11.. and still this same most annoying bug..

another bug.. age of empires 3 has artifacts and it hang in like 1 minute from turning on game[need to hardreset and bios allert is coming next boot]

-------------------------
i chuj

I have the same problem on my HP notebook 6735s, with this chipset and graphic card.

 

Will try to stay away from ATI, since NVIDIA always had better drivers and support.

Can't believe that such a big company as ATI can't make a decent drivers for years now, and can't fix this issue for 2 months.

Unacceptable!

PS. Just look at the Firefox info bar that pops when you enter username/pass somewhere. It's like i'm runing it on 200GHZ processor 32mb ram.

Also i can feel something is wrong with Windows performance with a hardware specification like this.

780G/ Radeon HD3200 slow-down issues on Windows XP seem to be plaguing everyone.

Here's a youtube link to help visualise the problem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6FyW-cwjBc

My machine is X2 5000+, 4GB ddr2-800 RAM and an Abit A-S78H motherboard.

I am currently using windows XP Sp3. I've had the same problems with the following:

Windows XP SP2: Firefox 3 (catalyst 8.5, 8.11)

Windows XP SP3: Firefox 1, Firefox 2,  Firefox 3, Opera 9, IE 7, IE 8 beta. (cat 8.5, 8.6, 8.11)

But no problems with:

Windows Vista SP1: Firefox 3, IE 7 (cat 8.11)

Windows XP SP3: IE 6, Safari Browser (catalyst 8.5, 8.11)

Windows XP SP2: IE 6. (catalyst 8.11)

The slow-downs are worse when using ZOOM for webpages in Firefox and Internet Explorer 7. If zooming is <100% or >100%, it  makes no difference. Same reduction in performance.

Overclocking the HD3200 to 510Mhz made no difference.

It seems to be a redrawing issue, especially when using bitmaps (jpg, flash.. etc). A direct result of that is poor scrolling performance. Also it seems to be DRIVER-ONLY. (Vista SP1 had no problems with any browser even while webpages were zoomed). Other chipsets seem to be affected as well: 790G/HD3300, HD4000 series.

Available workarounds:

1.Disable hardware acceleration

Display Porperties -> Settings -> Advanced -> Troubleshooting.

    Move the slider one level to the left. This will disable bitmap hardware and cursor acceleration.

    If it doesn't work the first time, try uninstalling CCC first.

Pros. Slow-downs are almost completely reduced in web browsers, even when webpages are zoomed.

Cons. In certain games, you will experience cursor issues, such as the cursor beeing visible only while moving. CCC will not be able to initialise. In my case, it always gives an initialisation error at start-up. So i have uninstalled it. Instead i'm using Rivatuner for any desktop color corrections.

2. Enable a second monitor.

Pros. Everything works as it should.

Cons. You actually require a second monitor.

I don't know how to emulate one.

*If anyone knows how to emulate a second monitor, please post here.

 

Until now, i've sent a ticket to Amd Support and reported this issue to Catalyst Crew.

PS. I sure wish this gets fixed soon. I'd hate to buy another video board.

 

Please ATI try to fix this issue. Thank you.

 

 

 

 

Edited: 11/23/2008 at 04:42 PM by redfox2x5

try typing "slow 2d" in google search. this thread is the first result. hope AMD fixes this problem asap.

Edited: 11/26/2008 at 03:25 AM by gecko

AMD Reponse was that i have bios, flash player and catalyst dirver installation corruption.

I think i did a Windwos XP fresh install 5 times in a row. That's fresh (with formatting). As for the BIOS, everything is ok. MS VISTA has no problems, i think that's proof enough.

What is going on?

If they fail to solve this problem, i think they are going to loose another customer in favour of INTEL/NVIDIA.

 

Here's another AMD forums thread http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=279&threadid=99753&STARTPAGE=4&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear.

 

Here's an ASUS 780G mobo forums thread

http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&id=20080416024128390&board_id=1&model=M3A78-EMH%20HDMI&page=1&count=37

No solution was found.

 

LE: Who else has 700MB video memory under Win XP, no matter what setting they use in bios?

Edited: 11/26/2008 at 08:09 AM by redfox2x5

Hello,

Same on XP x64.
Also a 700MB video memory.

Regards

That's great, AMD Support has started sending automated responses.

Heck, in the last ticket response, i am beeing told to "install the card in another system, in order to see if there's a bus problem".

I wish they told me how to install the integrated video card on another system!

 

From now on, I will try to avoid AMD products because this is just BS !

Edited: 11/26/2008 at 02:43 PM by redfox2x5

I bought the Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H months ago and have always had this problem.  Still to this date, ATI/AMD hasn't properly fixed the issue.  This is one of the rare times I've had problems with ATI drivers despite the horror stories I've heard in the past from others, but count me in as someone who will be hesitant to purchase another ATI GPU/chipset because of the poor driver support.  I just put together a similar build to mine, except with the 8200 Nvidia chipset, and everything works as it should.  I would much rather have his board than this one at this point.

To add another issue introduced in the 8.11 driver, the new "Pixel format" option doesn't work properly.  It always defaults to RGB 444 Full range when I want it to display YCbCr 422.  ATI still has the bug where SD videos do not output the correct levels so blacks look gray.

I have same problem

win2003 sp2 + ie6

me too!

Edited: 11/27/2008 at 02:02 AM by wxm

BUMP !

Another one, I tried all kind of solution, I have an nvidia 8800GTS installed and 6Gig RAM but the problem is still here, Adobe CS4 GUI is extreamly slow, and when I'm on the mainboard integrated GPU it's extreammmmly slowwwwww, I don't have more money to spend on hardware now, I already spent too much, but this is issue isn't solved.

Please ATI find us a solution for this, it seem a bottleneck on some bus more than related to HD 3200, as with a third card I still have bad performance, I tried installing all kind of drivers, I'm on Windows Vista 64 Ultimate, and my mobo is Gigabyte

hi again,

i installed windows server 2008 on my hp 6735b (puma platform HD3200) with catalyst 8.11 for vista, and everything work fine... :-)

Registered to the forum just because of this.

I experience this exact issue on my notebook with a ATI 3200 HD.

 

Photoshop and Firefox in XP x64 is really unusable due to the scrolling-lag.

Needs to be fixed ASAP.

I have contacted Abit, and they claim what i had suspected all along:  this is AMDs fault. They told me to install another VGA card in the PCI-E slot in oder to get rid of the problem.

Well, i've decided to cut the evil at it's root, so i have simply replaced the motherboard with an Asus M3N-H/ HDMI board, that uses the Nvidia Geforce 8300 chipset.

I can't say that this board and chipset are without faults, but compared to HD3200 they are way better.

And that's too bad, because the 780G is faster than the Geforce 8300, but without decent drivers it has no performance at all.

 

So, bye bye, AMD/ATI... you should really do something about that "Catalyst Crew" of yours if you really want to keep your customers.

  Try not to blindly trust the online tech reviews! Everybody praises the HD3200 because it has 3D performance, but NO REVIEW i have read, has ever mentioned anything about slow 2D performance.  If you really want to check a motherboard or any piece of HW out, first check the support forums. Heck, you should even ask the users what they feel about their products.

 

 

Edited: 12/04/2008 at 04:17 AM by redfox2x5

I agree with you. When I decided to buy my GigaByte MA78G-DS3H I should have looked into the support forums here, but I didn't. In another forum (Winboard.de) I asked about any opinions about the 780G and only got positive replies. I never had any trust in onboard graphics... sad to see that I was right again.

-------------------------

Mainboard: GigaByte MA78G-DS3H
CPU: AMD Athlon X2 4850e
RAM: Kingston ValueRAM DIMM 4 GB DDR2-800
OS: Windows XP Professional SP3
PCIe: GeCube Radeon HD3450

here is a Good News for this issue.

today posted new catalyst driver at the Guru3D(ATI Catalyst 8.12 beta (8.561 RC3) XP/VISTA 32/64-bit)..

http://forum.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=280709 <- download link page.

and.. mitigated our terrible:x issue, it's works.. serviceable!.. dont's see any present of nonsensical slow when scrolling with firefox or ie, but not enough fast yet.. anyway Good Work! AMD&ATi ..and  try more fix this~On,on 

Edited: 12/04/2008 at 09:23 AM by sustar

I can also happily confirm that firefox is performing as it should with the 8.12 beta drivers.

Wonder if they fixed my mysterious secure paypal computer crash problem.  When I try to check out using the secure paypal site, it causes my computer to reboot when I hit "Continue", but only in firefox.

confirmed ^_^

I tried 8.12 beta on XP Pro 32-bit and it cleared up the scrolling issue in Internet Explorer.  Firefox scrolling remains slow.

Weird... I'm using XP Pro 32-bit (SP3) and I only had the slow scrolling performance in Firefox, but 8.12 addressed the issue for me.

Has anyone gotten 8.12 Beta to work in XP64 with HD 3200?

The graphics broke totally on my HP TX2590 when I installed 8.12 Beta. I had to go into fail safe mode and reinstall 8.11 to be able to see anything on my screen again.

I tried the Safari web browser. The scrolling is alright. Try it out and see.