Topic Title: HD 7000 series graphic problem
Topic Summary: 3 month long study of flickering
Created On: 07/28/2012 07:51 AM
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 11/17/2012 08:23 AM
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gh0st47
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In that case what problesm did you had with your HD 7870 ??

About the OC thing i mentioned , will it void my warranty ? Because Sapphire never states anything about it.

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/support/?cid=3&psn=000203&lid=1 

 11/17/2012 02:13 PM
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Offler
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Each manufacturer has its own specifics when it comes to oc, or modifications to hardware. You have to check their rules for RMA.

Also I returned my HD 7870oc because i thought its damaged - due flickering I observed in some games. Only tests with different hardware and reports on many other forums convinced me that trouble is not hardware.

Beta 8 released: Quick tests within few hours.



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 11/18/2012 07:35 AM
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gh0st47
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Originally posted by: Offler Each manufacturer has its own specifics when it comes to oc, or modifications to hardware. You have to check their rules for RMA.

 

Also I returned my HD 7870oc because i thought its damaged - due flickering I observed in some games. Only tests with different hardware and reports on many other forums convinced me that trouble is not hardware.

 

Beta 8 released: Quick tests within few hours.

 



So i guess me and yours are the same right ? Since im just experiencing what you are now too =/
So mine is not hardware faulty then ?  

 11/18/2012 11:43 AM
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Offler
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Exactly.

12.11 beta 8 quick test
Witcher 2 Flickers
Civilization 4 Flickers

DeusEX no problem.

So for now i dont seem any change in the beta drivers with one exception - the performance is getting better.



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 11/18/2012 08:19 PM
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gh0st47
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Originally posted by: Offler Exactly.

 

12.11 beta 8 quick test Witcher 2 Flickers Civilization 4 Flickers

 

DeusEX no problem. So for now i dont seem any change in the beta drivers with one exception - the performance is getting better.

 

That's a relief then =/ 

Tell me Offler will you still support AMD GPU / CPU after all this problems you face ?

I seriously have a thought of going to Nvidia now if im getting a new GPU.

Maybe even sticking on to Intel CPU ( wanted to get FX for my current build i have now, but the fail i head about it just terrible )

One more thing , when you do benchmark / gaming / watching vid or whatever. Maybe this is just me , do you feel if you play it on fullscreen do you feel like when the camera moves from point A to point B its bit more
" slugish " , while the smaller screen and resolution is alot smoother. 

Like comparing a 1920X1080 resolution Fullscreen and a 1400x1050 resoluen / resolution. tion but Windowed.

Of course i know this got to do with GPU , if your GPU isn't powerful enough then of course running on high resolution definitely will lag.  

But what if the GPU can support that reolution and you experience this , is it normal? 

Its simple , just take this vid for an example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQzRlg-K8Rk

While i watch in Fullscreen , i can feel the vid seems laggy like. 

While on normal Youtube's small screen , i feel its smoother than the fullscreen actually.

 11/19/2012 05:39 AM
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Offler
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Well, introducing new architecture will always bring up new problems with it.

Currently there is not only single DirectX9 API available.

DirectX3D 9 - Some sort of DX9 emulation which has exactly same capabilities as DX in Windows XP. This does not support WDDM model.

Direct3D 9EX - The one delivered with Vista, Win7 and later. On this version runs Windows Aero which is a sort of 3D engine. This one supports WDDM model.

I believe that some games still stick to the legacy version API, while others have capability to use DX 9EX.

When this is applied on newer version of driver it may cause trouble - specifically on newer graphics hardware which is intended directly for WDDM driver model.

for reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX_10#DirectX_10

Usually games written in 2003-2006 are working well with the new card. Games released later seems to apply DX9 with newest updates to DX9 which seems to be applied in Vista and later.

 There are only 2 exceptions to this I have tested - Civilization 4 which uses much more legacy API and DeusEX which has been supported by AMD gaming program - and apparently the programming of the game is on better level.

Minor uncompatibillity between game and API with driver which expects flawless programming may result in flickering we can observe now. Apparently its connected to anisotropic filtering, shader effects and similar.

Besides AMD GPU provide a lot more computing power, while the Nvidia rely on fact that some effects dont need to be displayed

 I will stick to my HD 7970 and hope for solution. Even earlier cards with similar trouble was put into working after some time.



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 11/19/2012 05:55 AM
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gh0st47
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Originally posted by: Offler Well, introducing new architecture will always bring up new problems with it.

 

Currently there is not only single DirectX9 API available.

 

DirectX3D 9 - Some sort of DX9 emulation which has exactly same capabilities as DX in Windows XP. This does not support WDDM model.

 

Direct3D 9EX - The one delivered with Vista, Win7 and later. On this version runs Windows Aero which is a sort of 3D engine. This one supports WDDM model. I believe that some games still stick to the legacy version API, while others have capability to use DX 9EX.

 

When this is applied on newer version of driver it may cause trouble - specifically on newer graphics hardware which is intended directly for WDDM driver model. for reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX_10#DirectX_10

 

Usually games written in 2003-2006 are working well with the new card. Games released later seems to apply DX9 with newest updates to DX9 which seems to be applied in Vista and later.

 

 There are only 2 exceptions to this I have tested - Civilization 4 which uses much more legacy API and DeusEX which has been supported by AMD gaming program - and apparently the programming of the game is on better level.

 

Minor uncompatibillity between game and API with driver which expects flawless programming may result in flickering we can observe now. Apparently its connected to anisotropic filtering, shader effects and similar.

 

Besides AMD GPU provide a lot more computing power, while the Nvidia rely on fact that some effects dont need to be displayed

 

 I will stick to my HD 7970 and hope for solution. Even earlier cards with similar trouble was put into working after some time.

 

May i ask what you do for a living lol , you sure do know your stuffs

 11/19/2012 06:48 AM
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Offler
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I used to work for a company which made PC games. I still remember a lot of such things, since I still work in IT.



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 11/19/2012 07:51 AM
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gh0st47
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Is there any person good as you but he dosen't work in IT lol ! 

Actually matter of fact , guess what im studying actually currently XD ?

But i don't know why PC / Game got me so suck into it = ="

I never expected this lol, i remember back then i couldn't care less about anything about PC , just turn it ON as long it runs im happy.

Now PC is like ***** to me lol ! Maybe because im now older i have money to buy a PC myself and play around with it  

 11/19/2012 12:00 PM
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Offler
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I have tested Morrowind. This game is made for DirectX 8.1. Everything is working fine. No flickering...Re-checked DX version for Civ4 - its DX9...



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 11/19/2012 08:16 PM
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gh0st47
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= =" wao you got quite an antique collection of games there lol. 

zz i don't have any old games to test at all....all are least direct-x 9  

 11/21/2012 05:56 AM
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Offler
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Something interesting:

http://devgurus.amd.com/thread/159666

I believe I have seen variation of this issue in Skyrim (repeatable fading issue) and all the flicker is related to this report.



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 11/21/2012 07:58 PM
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gh0st47
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Originally posted by: Offler Something interesting:

 

http://devgurus.amd.com/thread/159666

 

I believe I have seen variation of this issue in Skyrim (repeatable fading issue) and all the flicker is related to this report.

 

I barely understands what he says lol , my English is bad

But i have bad news....nothing happened till yesterday. But my Skyrim all sudden i was playing i got Black Screen again ! My PC totally all locked up , HDD LED not even blinking anymore , cant Alt + Tab nothing.
I have LCD on my Keyboard to show me CPU Usage / RAM / MSI Aftertburner report etc. All frozen , my PC tottally frozen.

Like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSu1z9BVeLY

But there's no sound loop / buzzing like what it happened on my Diablo3.

But i had to reset my PC to fix it.

Maybe my GPU does have a problem......maybe need to RMA it , maybe not even able to if they (The Sapphire here in Malaysia not HQ in HK ) claim isn't any problem , i won't even able to RMA it then i will be stuck with this problems !  

But still then again , so far all other games i sill haven't experience any Black Screen zzz this is very frustracting and headache ! I can't confirm what's really the problem here ! 

 11/21/2012 10:15 PM
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Nichtswisser
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@gh0st47

The blackscreen issue is a known problem with 7870 cards. There are even hardware sites reporting on it so they will have to RMA your card. They know that as well, they just try to fool you. Don't let them fool you and keep pressing for them to exchange your card! And Nvidia sadly isn't a better choice atm which is why I'm currently sticking with my old 5850 after returning my 7970 Ghz Edition. The GTX 600 series apparently still suffers from stuttering issues. With AMD you get flickering, with NV stuttering. Not sure which is worse, yet both aren't acceptable for the prices they demand.

And so it seems my 3 years old 5850 will have to do for a while longer. I've got some vram and FPS issues at times when playing my fully moded Skyrim that took up to 1,8GB Vram on my 7970, yet at least there is no flickering.



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 11/22/2012 06:18 AM
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gh0st47
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Originally posted by: Nichtswisser @gh0st47

 

The blackscreen issue is a known problem with 7870 cards. There are even hardware sites reporting on it so they will have to RMA your card. They know that as well, they just try to fool you. Don't let them fool you and keep pressing for them to exchange your card! And Nvidia sadly isn't a better choice atm which is why I'm currently sticking with my old 5850 after returning my 7970 Ghz Edition. The GTX 600 series apparently still suffers from stuttering issues. With AMD you get flickering, with NV stuttering. Not sure which is worse, yet both aren't acceptable for the prices they demand.

 

And so it seems my 3 years old 5850 will have to do for a while longer. I've got some vram and FPS issues at times when playing my fully moded Skyrim that took up to 1,8GB Vram on my 7970, yet at least there is no flickering.

 

Ok i had a friend on Youtube he did a research , really respect all the trouble he gone through , its a confirm , that my batch is a problem one , he asked anyone how had the same BIOS as mine , all reported Black Screen problems ! 

The BIOS now he RMA it , the new one , all clear no problems. 

I guess i have to send mine to RMA ! Problem is the retail shop said they will send to Sapphire Dealer here in Malaysia...then they will test zz but as i said Benchmarking / most other games besides D3 and Skyrim currently no Black Screen , i wonder is there even a slight chance they will change it for me ! If they won't change i have no diea what to do......zzz i spend over 800+ Ringgit on this piece of card man ! 

And i don't know what am i going to do for a whole month without my HD 7870 i only have my old HD 5830....zzzz

 11/24/2012 01:53 PM
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rustedmobo
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So what did you end up doing?  I have similar problems, RMA'ed once, same issues.  Just bought Skyrim on Steam sale, can't play it in these conditions. Is this just a bad card model? See below:

Fallen Earth video, my original card that was RMA'ed.

http://youtu.be/qsDPlsL-dcc

Skyrim video, this is the replacement card

http://youtu.be/GKpnC4T-44M

 

System:

 

HIS IceQ H787Q2G2M Radeon HD 7870 GHz Edition 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card

 

 

ASRock Z77 Extreme4 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

 

Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I53570K

 

 

G.SKILL Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-1600C10D-16GAO

 

 

CORSAIR HX Series HX850 850W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

 11/24/2012 03:05 PM
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Nichtswisser
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Wow, I never had it this bad. In my case it was more like once or twice every 30 minutes. What drivers are you using?



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 i5 2500k @ 4,2 GHz ][ ASUS P8P67 Pro ][ HD 5850 ][ 8GB Ram GEIL ][ ASUS Xonar DX


 11/24/2012 08:10 PM
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tet_pr
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I too got this exact same issue on my Sapphire HD7870 Ghz Edition OC

 

Games like:

Test Drive Unlimitted 2:   VERY niticable flickering

Counter Strike:Global Offensive:  less noticable, still present.

Audiosurf: Very rare, but still present.

 

Ive had this issue on 12.10 and 12.11 Betas.

 11/24/2012 09:31 PM
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rustedmobo
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12.10, turns out there is a load of people with this problem on 7XXX series, still looking for a solution...

 11/24/2012 09:51 PM
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gh0st47
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Originally posted by: rustedmobo So what did you end up doing?  I have similar problems, RMA'ed once, same issues.  Just bought Skyrim on Steam sale, can't play it in these conditions. Is this just a bad card model? See below:

 

Fallen Earth video, my original card that was RMA'ed.

 

http://youtu.be/qsDPlsL-dcc

 

Skyrim video, this is the replacement card

 

http://youtu.be/GKpnC4T-44M

 

 

 

System:

 

 

 

HIS IceQ H787Q2G2M Radeon HD 7870 GHz Edition 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card

 

 

 

 

ASRock Z77 Extreme4 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

 

 

Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I53570K

 

 

 

 

G.SKILL Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-1600C10D-16GAO

 

 

 

 

CORSAIR HX Series HX850 850W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

 



In your case i think its Driver problems , so its no big deal i guess wait till new driver releases.

Did  you have any Black Screen most people mentioned with Sapphire cards ? I have for mine , so im going to RMA it 2morrow , i jsut replaced my new one with my old HD 5830 ( sad sad case ) , hopefully it still able to kick some ass !

And hopefully i can get a RMA and fix all this stupid prolems !

They said might have to wait for like 1 or 2 months ! GG !

About Black Screen , now i only notice, its not all games is possible to get it ( least what we users , not AMD , research found out   , but its most obvios in Skyrim , BF3 , Diablo3 , WoW. 

During Benchmark test 0 problems. Never ever will get it ( except Flicker those still exist ) 

So going to RMA it , no choice , everyone who RMA it the BIOS Part Number arent same as mine either. But so far the ones who RMA with the new BIOS Part Number have fixed their problem , so far....hopefully its pernamently =/

AMD Support and Game » AMD Radeon™ Graphics » HD 7000 series graphic problem

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