Topic Title: Native 3D support in Windows 8 and what Microsoft and AMD are not telling us
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Created On: 11/14/2012 12:02 PM
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 11/14/2012 12:02 PM
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Gavincol78
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After having Microsoft remotely connect to my PC with a Radeon HD 5770 for nearly 7 hours told me that my system is perfectly capable of their native 3D support which is dependant on AMD's drivers of which I have tried both 12.10 and 12.11-beta and both don't support the native 3D with the 5770 (possibly due to HDMI 1.3). I then tried an earlier 12.8 driver and still no luck so I was given a HD 6450 from a friend which is a lower spec and slower card yet has HDMI 1.4 and the moment Windows 8 installed it the Stereoscopic 3D settings appeared yet disappeared when I changed to DVI.SO WHAT WE ARE NOT BEING TOLD BY MICROSOFT AND AMD IS THAT THE NATIVE STEREOSCOPIC 3D IS ONLY SUPPORTED VIA HDMI 1.4 EVEN IF YOU HAD A 5000 SERIES CARD THAT IS CAPABLE OF HD3D
 11/16/2012 04:39 PM
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robains
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Actually HDMI 1.4 is the ONLY specification that supports 3D, DVI does NOT.  If that is what you want then you'll need an ATI card that supports HDMI 1.4 specification.

So even if your hardware supports the ability to output a 3D signal (most newer video cards are more than powerful enough), the DVI specification doesn't support the #D signal.  A 3D signal requires A LOT more data bandwidth than the DVI (physical) cable specification can handle.

Also, you really want HDMI 1.4b specification and this will support 3D at 120 Hz.  And finally, HDMI 2.0 specification should be coming out this year.

But DisplayPort is actually a better connection (supports more bandwidth).

ATI 5000 series cards only support HDMI 1.3 specification and I don't think the HDMI 1.4 specification was even available at the time the 5000 series cards were being developed.

So Microsoft and AMD aren't really hiding anything.  I know you probably don't want to hear that but no driver update is ever going to make a 5770 work with 3D and HDMI 1.4 specification.



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"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan
 11/17/2012 12:33 PM
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Gavincol78
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Originally posted by: robains Actually HDMI 1.4 is the ONLY specification that supports 3D, DVI does NOT.  If that is what you want then you'll need an ATI card that supports HDMI 1.4 specification.

So even if your hardware supports the ability to output a 3D signal (most newer video cards are more than powerful enough), the DVI specification doesn't support the #D signal.  A 3D signal requires A LOT more data bandwidth than the DVI (physical) cable specification can handle.

Also, you really want HDMI 1.4b specification and this will support 3D at 120 Hz.  And finally, HDMI 2.0 specification should be coming out this year.

But DisplayPort is actually a better connection (supports more bandwidth).

ATI 5000 series cards only support HDMI 1.3 specification and I don't think the HDMI 1.4 specification was even available at the time the 5000 series cards were being developed.

So Microsoft and AMD aren't really hiding anything.  I know you probably don't want to hear that but no driver update is ever going to make a 5770 work with 3D and HDMI 1.4 specification.

 

Then why is it this information is NOT mentioned anywhere on AMD or Microsoft's website and that in the 7 hours that Microsoft had been remotely connected to my computer it had not been mentioned that the Native Stereoscopic 3D is only supported by HDMI 1.4 especially as I had even proved that to Microsoft when I tried a Radeon HD 6450 (crap card for anything other then basic use). So unless AMD or Microsoft tells us that HDMI 1.4 is needed for native S3D they are hiding from users

 11/17/2012 05:41 PM
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robains
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I'm NOT trying to defend AMD or Microsoft, just letting you know.

If you look here: http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-radeon-hd-5000/hd-5770/Pages/ati-radeon-hd-5770-overview.aspx#2

and here: http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-radeon-hd-5000/hd-5770/Pages/ati-radeon-hd-5770-overview.aspx#5

Footnote #13

and here: http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/amd-hd3d/Pages/3d-desktop-graphics.aspx

As you can see there are a lot of "footnote" exceptions that can prevent 3D support.  Your TV needs to have 3D support, you need to use a HDMI 1.4b cable, you need the drivers, the player needs to support 3D, and if you go thru a home theatre system it also needs HDMI 1.4 support for 3D. 

But they are pretty clear you need HDMI and they do say it will NOT work with DVI.  3D has never worked over DVI.  I don't think anyone is "hiding" anything, you are just not reading the fine print.

 



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"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan
 11/18/2012 06:04 AM
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Gavincol78
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Originally posted by: robains I'm NOT trying to defend AMD or Microsoft, just letting you know.

If you look here: http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-radeon-hd-5000/hd-5770/Pages/ati-radeon-hd-5770-overview.aspx#2

and here: http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-radeon-hd-5000/hd-5770/Pages/ati-radeon-hd-5770-overview.aspx#5

Footnote #13

and here: http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/amd-hd3d/Pages/3d-desktop-graphics.aspx

As you can see there are a lot of "footnote" exceptions that can prevent 3D support.  Your TV needs to have 3D support, you need to use a HDMI 1.4b cable, you need the drivers, the player needs to support 3D, and if you go thru a home theatre system it also needs HDMI 1.4 support for 3D. 

But they are pretty clear you need HDMI and they do say it will NOT work with DVI.  3D has never worked over DVI.  I don't think anyone is "hiding" anything, you are just not reading the fine print.

 

Let me just get 1 thing straight here 3D DOES work for 3D but ONLY via tridef3D or iZ3D as I DO know that HD3D is only by HDMI or the newer Display Port 1.2. But I am talking about Windows 8 native S3D that there is no mention on exactly what is required for the native S3D and being that I have a ATI card I thought AMD would of mentioned something to but I suppose AMD thinks people upgrade their cards everytime a new series of card comes out

 11/23/2012 12:46 PM
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Gavincol78
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I finally got a reply from AMD after almost 2 weeks wait and after I upgraded to a Radeon HD 6670 2GB (which DOES fully support the native S3D)Dear Gavin,Your service request : SR #{ticketno:[removed]} has been reviewed and updated.Response and Service Request History:I understand that you are unable to activate the feature native stereo 3D in Windows 8. From the information you have gathered it states that you need a Radeon HD 5770 video card to enable this feature in Windows 8. If I have missed any critical information please let me know as my suggestions may change. From what I am gathering you have all the components for HD3D. You are able to run your games with the TRidef 3D middleware software with no issuesI have talked to our engineer and I was told that the Radeon 5000 series do not support quad buffer. The option will be there if you are using a Radeon HD6000 or higher. Please be aware that if we do not hear back from you, we will assume that the issue has been resolved and the service request will be permanently closed after 10 days. If more time is needed to evaluate my suggestion please let me know and I will ensure this service request remains open for you.In order to update this service request, please respond, leaving the service request reference intact.Best regards,AMD Global Customer Care
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