Topic Title: rFactor 2 and AMD GPU's - appalling performance
Topic Summary: Disappointing AMD
Created On: 12/30/2013 08:36 PM
Status: Post and Reply
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
1 2 Next Last unread
Search Topic Search Topic
Topic Tools Topic Tools
View similar topics View similar topics
View topic in raw text format. Print this topic.
 12/30/2013 08:36 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Bjørn
Peon

Posts: 3
Joined: 12/30/2013

Hello,

I am very fund of racing games and specially racing simulators... The newest and most groundbreaking one is called rFactor 2. It has been released for 2 years and has had a tough time with FPS... With AMD cards...
nVidia racers has pretty much double the framerates with a nVidia counterpiece, matching card to any AMD GPU's. I, myself have a 6950 2 GB and is extremely frustrated of how the game performs.

Image Space Incorporated (ISI) has tried to contact AMD to cooperate in the quest of optimizing drivers, graphical engine with no luck.
When they asked nVidia, they recieved all the help they needed to improve their engine but nVidia also ran tests with the game, improving their drivers towards the simulator.

ISI have a forum with willful users... Who are posting benchmarks with specs... All of them show a bad pattern of AMD cards... Do I really have to spent 200+ dollars to play my favorite race simulator at an acceptable level, buying a nVidia card?    It is not much more than 1 year ago that I bought the 6950 for 200+ dollars and now I have to do it again, just because AMD isn't willing to support a small-medium sized game developper with a ground breaking product which is used by race teams all over the world, even in Formula One (rFactor Pro).

My system is:
850W PSU
Q6600 quad @ 3.10 GHz
 8GB 1066 MHz DDR2 RAM
HD6950 2GB

I never exceed 55FPS, not even on the smallest track with only myself lapping, mostly it's around mid thirties, low 20's.


Here's a friend of mine who had AMD card but changed to nVidia and the change of FPS in rF2 is dramatic.

"Ok guys - here is the result of my upgrade decision. I bought an EVGA GTX780 Ti 3gb which arrived today. So, after removing all traces of the AMD drivers, I installed the card with the latest Nvidia drivers 331.65 and ran some comparison 3dMark benchmarks followed by this rF2 bench. My results are as follows:

3dMark first with all stock clocks - no over clocking of anything. Intel I7-950 & G-Skil 12gb 1600mhz ram.

AMD HD6990

Ice Storm Extreme (Dx 9) = 115130
Cloud Gate (Dx 10) = 19318
Fire Strike Extreme (Dx 11) = 3169

Nvidia GTX780 Ti

Ice Storm Extreme = 118342
Cloud Gate = 20405
Fire Strike Extreme = 4730

So as you can see, a small increase in DX9 & DX10 scores, nice but not what you would call Earth shattering. The DX11 score is a substantial improvement though, so that alone makes the upgrade worthwhile. But what does this mean in the real world, specifically rFactor 2?

AMD HD6990

2013-11-12 12:03:10 - rFactor2
Frames: 5049 - Time: 200602ms - Avg: 25.169 - Min: 10 - Max: 55

Nvidia GTX780 Ti

2013-11-15 16:51:47 - rFactor2
Frames: 17295 - Time: 200945ms - Avg: 86.068 - Min: 68 - Max: 123

Well, there is no comparison. Remembering that this is a DX9 game, and considering the similarity of the artificial bench mark result, the rFactor 2 result IS Earth shattering.
So what happens when I switch the resolution to my monitors native resolution of 2560 x 1440? Keeping all the other settings exactly the same - totally maxed out.

2013-11-15 17:11:54 - rFactor2
Frames: 15075 - Time: 207044ms - Avg: 72.811 - Min: 58 - Max: 94

I actually forgot to stop fraps as the car crossed the line on lap 2 (remembered when it poped back into the box) so don't know if that would have skewed the result at all - but as it is I can now run the game completely maxed out without having to compromise anything.

Conclusion: Anyone considering buying and AMD graphics card is completely 
BONKERS
. "

 
This was one out of many people running a replay - to get a standard to the test. 20 cars, on the same track, run with the same graphics settings.

 http://xtremerpm.org/images/benchmark_15-11-2013_Build342.jpg
here's a graphic of the reported tests from users... It's not looking very good for the AMD cards...

 12/30/2013 09:38 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Vantharas
Sprite Maker

Posts: 3496
Joined: 03/01/2009

Ground breaking DX9 game seeing as how we are 2013 yet I've never heard of it? 

When did ISI attempt to contact AMD? who did they speak to? Did they speak to anyone? Did they use AMD developer channels?

Has ISI talked about into jumping into this century technology? (DX11) 

Second how is this comparison fair seeing as how old a 6990(duel GPU almost 3 years old now) is vs a 780TI? Released in the last few months

Of course you be bonkers to spend money on a 3 year old GPU.



-------------------------

I5 3570K@4~5.0ghz: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H:Corsair Hydro H110 :16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR-3 1600: XFX Radeon 7950 @ 1100/1575 : Corsair AX 860 PSU: x1 WD Black 1TB HDD's: 90GB Agility 3: 960GB SSD : Creative Labs X-FI:Corsair 500R Arctic White Edition:3 22inch Monitors Eyefinity @ 5294x 1050 : Alienware Tact-X Keyboard: Razer Naga :Corsair Vengence 1500 Headset: Corsair SP2500 Speakers



Edited: 12/30/2013 at 10:10 PM by Vantharas
 12/30/2013 10:17 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Bjørn
Peon

Posts: 3
Joined: 12/30/2013

Originally posted by: Vantharas Ground breaking DX9 game seeing as how we are 2013 yet I've never heard of it? 

 

When did ISI attempt to contact AMD? who did they speak to? Did they speak to anyone? Did they use AMD developer channels?

 

Has ISI talked about into jumping into this century technology? (DX11) 

 

Second how is this comparison fair seeing as how old a 6990(duel GPU almost 3 years old now) is vs a 780TI? Released in the last few months

 

Of course you be bonkers to spend money on a 3 year old GPU.

 

Now now, that was just one of those cases where the GPU was changed... And the quoted person is a friend of mine.

Look at the graphics (link) I put at the end... It is a scheme put together of all the different benchmarks people did one or another. There is a pattern, isn't there?

I don't know who they contacted... I am not a staff member... Just an AMD-victim in this unfortunate situation... 

This is the topic in question, where users are reporting what they get in FPS with the said replay, recreating the same scenario for everybody...

They post their specs as well...
http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/16951-R9-290-or-GTX-770-4GB?p=222907&viewfull=1#post222907 

 12/30/2013 10:23 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Vantharas
Sprite Maker

Posts: 3496
Joined: 03/01/2009

2013-12-30 22:14:25 - rFactor2

Frames: 16746 - Time: 300000ms - Avg: 55.820 - Min: 26 - Max: 93

Thats with a single GPU , I can't use the same track the other person has (demo version) . 

And I turned everything up as high as it could go on the demo track as well. 

This is is useing catalyst 13.9 btw. With Crossfire disabled. 1 GPU. 

I also copied the settings from the benchmark chart you posted, except instead of 3X AA , I'm useing 4X AA. 



-------------------------

I5 3570K@4~5.0ghz: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H:Corsair Hydro H110 :16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR-3 1600: XFX Radeon 7950 @ 1100/1575 : Corsair AX 860 PSU: x1 WD Black 1TB HDD's: 90GB Agility 3: 960GB SSD : Creative Labs X-FI:Corsair 500R Arctic White Edition:3 22inch Monitors Eyefinity @ 5294x 1050 : Alienware Tact-X Keyboard: Razer Naga :Corsair Vengence 1500 Headset: Corsair SP2500 Speakers



Edited: 12/30/2013 at 10:30 PM by Vantharas
 12/31/2013 06:37 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Bjørn
Peon

Posts: 3
Joined: 12/30/2013

Originally posted by: Vantharas 2013-12-30 22:14:25 - rFactor2

 

Frames: 16746 - Time: 300000ms - Avg: 55.820 - Min: 26 - Max: 93

 

Thats with a single GPU , I can't use the same track the other person has (demo version) . 

 

And I turned everything up as high as it could go on the demo track as well. 

 

This is is useing catalyst 13.9 btw. With Crossfire disabled. 1 GPU. 

 

I also copied the settings from the benchmark chart you posted, except instead of 3X AA , I'm useing 4X AA. 

 



Hey man, yeah the demo is with the Corvette C6R and  the Lime Rock Park track... I get 26 min and 55 max with 1 vette on that track...

I get less on Loch Drummond - it is a bigger, more detailed track.

What would you say would be the nVidia counterpart to your 7950? 580 GTX? 760 GTX? I am 100% sure they'll perform substantially better on Lime Rock Park with Vette.

 12/31/2013 10:40 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Vantharas
Sprite Maker

Posts: 3496
Joined: 03/01/2009

Nvidia 670GTX



-------------------------

I5 3570K@4~5.0ghz: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H:Corsair Hydro H110 :16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR-3 1600: XFX Radeon 7950 @ 1100/1575 : Corsair AX 860 PSU: x1 WD Black 1TB HDD's: 90GB Agility 3: 960GB SSD : Creative Labs X-FI:Corsair 500R Arctic White Edition:3 22inch Monitors Eyefinity @ 5294x 1050 : Alienware Tact-X Keyboard: Razer Naga :Corsair Vengence 1500 Headset: Corsair SP2500 Speakers

 12/31/2013 10:50 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Vantharas
Sprite Maker

Posts: 3496
Joined: 03/01/2009

Tell your guys to jump on the reporting issue to AMD useing the catalyst feedback option. 

http://www.amdsurveys.com/se.ashx?s=5A1E27D25AD12B60

Also have the developers make a real attempt at contacting AMD. Or just bother them till they say yes.

But with the game being so small and no one having heard of it they may not do anything about it because its current trending games that make money .

Not games no one has ever heard of. I wish you well on your endevor hopefully AMD will listen to the developers. 



-------------------------

I5 3570K@4~5.0ghz: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H:Corsair Hydro H110 :16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR-3 1600: XFX Radeon 7950 @ 1100/1575 : Corsair AX 860 PSU: x1 WD Black 1TB HDD's: 90GB Agility 3: 960GB SSD : Creative Labs X-FI:Corsair 500R Arctic White Edition:3 22inch Monitors Eyefinity @ 5294x 1050 : Alienware Tact-X Keyboard: Razer Naga :Corsair Vengence 1500 Headset: Corsair SP2500 Speakers



Edited: 12/31/2013 at 11:05 AM by Vantharas
 12/31/2013 12:21 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Fishman
Button Masher

Posts: 243
Joined: 10/14/2011

rFactor has been out since 2006 and is still widely used today. I'm in a league that uses it.  rFactor 2 is very well known and is being used by many leagues.

I get steady 60 fps with my GTX680. It runs fairly good with my 5870's.

 I just think it looks drab for some reason.

Hopefully ISI or the video card makers get some improvement going soon.



-------------------------

GA-MA-790FXT-UD5P/ AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black/2 x XFX HD5870 /RipjawsX 2x4gb DDR3 1333/ Corsair TX750M/ Antec 900 case/ Windows 7x64 Ult.


 


 


 


 



Edited: 12/31/2013 at 02:53 PM by Fishman
 01/03/2014 01:57 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Mrslfrsl
Peon

Posts: 5
Joined: 01/03/2014

Just read this  http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/16951-R9-290-or-GTX-770-4GB

 

Such a let down!

I've got a 7970 and it's not even up to the 3 gen's older nvidia counter parts.

A small game and nobody cares right? Well I do. Cou can imagine what I am going to do and what a lot of rF2 users are going to do.

 01/03/2014 03:09 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
black_zion
Nanotechnology Guru

Posts: 11571
Joined: 04/17/2008

http://rfactor.net/web/complaints/

How about going there and complaining to them?

-------------------------
ASUS Sabertooth 990FX/Gen3 R2, FX-8350 w/ Corsair H60, 8 GiB G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133, XFX HD 7970 Ghz, 512GB Vertex 4, 256GB Vector, 240GB Agility 3, Creative X-Fi Titanium w/ Creative Gigaworks S750, SeaSonic X750, HP ZR2440w, Win 7 Ultimate x64
 01/03/2014 04:20 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Thanny
Elite

Posts: 1204
Joined: 07/13/2009

Obviously the developer has not devoted one iota of effort to making the game work well with AMD hardware.  Your complaints should be directed to them first.

 

 01/03/2014 05:57 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Mrslfrsl
Peon

Posts: 5
Joined: 01/03/2014

Originally posted by: black_zion http://rfactor.net/web/complaints/ How about going there and complaining to them?

 

You seem to be the smart guy here what?

 

Dev quote:

 

"It's had our attention, we've tried to contact, we even made contact thanks to a third-party giving us a contact past their 'outer defenses'. Only one manufacturer supports small software titles. nVidia will literally take your software (even if you are a small company, and aren't selling their cards by the thousands), run scans on everything they possibly can, and advise you. Other manufacturers it can be hard to get an email response. I would expect AMD to gradually improve through our own trial and error, but it won't ever happen as fast or easily as nVidia because they make it possible."

 01/03/2014 09:58 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
black_zion
Nanotechnology Guru

Posts: 11571
Joined: 04/17/2008

Sounds like PR spin to me

-------------------------
ASUS Sabertooth 990FX/Gen3 R2, FX-8350 w/ Corsair H60, 8 GiB G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133, XFX HD 7970 Ghz, 512GB Vertex 4, 256GB Vector, 240GB Agility 3, Creative X-Fi Titanium w/ Creative Gigaworks S750, SeaSonic X750, HP ZR2440w, Win 7 Ultimate x64
 01/04/2014 04:45 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Mrslfrsl
Peon

Posts: 5
Joined: 01/03/2014

Originally posted by: black_zion Sounds like PR spin to me

 

Absolutely! Awesome PR for both...ISI and AMD.

You certanly contributed to the topic man.

 

However, at least you have two more posts now. I guess this topic is just going to dust here without any help/answers.

 

 01/04/2014 11:31 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
black_zion
Nanotechnology Guru

Posts: 11571
Joined: 04/17/2008

Sure, it's not like EA, Bioware, Ubisoft, and Bethesda, among others, have said pretty much the exact same thing when they release really badly coded games such as BF4, CoD Ghosts, AC4, Batman AA, Crysis, Bioshock, among others. They blame AMD and/or nVidia for their own problems because if they admit they screwed up, sales fall.

-------------------------
ASUS Sabertooth 990FX/Gen3 R2, FX-8350 w/ Corsair H60, 8 GiB G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133, XFX HD 7970 Ghz, 512GB Vertex 4, 256GB Vector, 240GB Agility 3, Creative X-Fi Titanium w/ Creative Gigaworks S750, SeaSonic X750, HP ZR2440w, Win 7 Ultimate x64
 01/04/2014 03:14 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Mrslfrsl
Peon

Posts: 5
Joined: 01/03/2014

Originally posted by: black_zion Sure, it's not like EA, Bioware, Ubisoft, and Bethesda, among others, have said pretty much the exact same thing when they release really badly coded games such as BF4, CoD Ghosts, AC4, Batman AA, Crysis, Bioshock, among others. They blame AMD and/or nVidia for their own problems because if they admit they screwed up, sales fall.

 

We asked there for answers, we got an answer.

So we ask here for an answer. Take a look at the posted image above. It's not only me, there are really enough people man which are suffering from the bad performance. All the line through AMD users. I have spend 400 bucks for the card which is for me literaly maybe 50 bucks worth because of the performance in this game. My whole rig is just there for this game. I don't have another 400 bucks or more to throw out of the window man. I just don't have them. 

I honestly don't know what your point is. I am talking the first time here to you and all you are doing is defending here AMD with what? Assumptions?

Do you know for a fact that the things you said are the case here? If so, how do you know that?

Are you involved in to the development or are you associated to AMD somehow? If not, you are assuming things which literaly means you don't know anything for a fact right?

 

I am not here to start a debate with you man, that's the last thing I want here.  

 01/04/2014 04:24 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
black_zion
Nanotechnology Guru

Posts: 11571
Joined: 04/17/2008

This is a user to user forum, the only answers you will get here are from people who don't work for AMD. Even the @AMD people can't really get you more information than you can with an email. I saw your posts on the ISI forums, and even you have said "ISI needs to improve the code" (your post Here) So you admit it's not an AMD problem, it's an ISI problem, and they can say whatever they want to about how AMD is holding up their progress but this game has been in development for going on 5 years, so either they have the most incompetent programmers this side of DICE, or they are lying their butts off saying it's an AMD problem. Want to know WHY I think they are lying their butts off? Because take another racing game which use the same game engine, ISImotor, called Simraceway. They have no issues whatsoever with AMD video cards getting 50% or fewer FPS than nVidia cards, and I don't remember seeing on any of AMD's release notes "improved performance in Simraceway".

AFAIAC this thread can be locked as nothing useful is going to come of it.



-------------------------
ASUS Sabertooth 990FX/Gen3 R2, FX-8350 w/ Corsair H60, 8 GiB G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133, XFX HD 7970 Ghz, 512GB Vertex 4, 256GB Vector, 240GB Agility 3, Creative X-Fi Titanium w/ Creative Gigaworks S750, SeaSonic X750, HP ZR2440w, Win 7 Ultimate x64
 01/05/2014 08:15 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Mrslfrsl
Peon

Posts: 5
Joined: 01/03/2014

Originally posted by: black_zion This is a user to user forum, the only answers you will get here are from people who don't work for AMD. Even the @AMD people can't really get you more information than you can with an email. I saw your posts on the ISI forums, and even you have said "ISI needs to improve the code" (your post Here) So you admit it's not an AMD problem, it's an ISI problem, and they can say whatever they want to about how AMD is holding up their progress but this game has been in development for going on 5 years, so either they have the most incompetent programmers this side of DICE, or they are lying their butts off saying it's an AMD problem. Want to know WHY I think they are lying their butts off? Because take another racing game which use the same game engine, ISImotor, called Simraceway. They have no issues whatsoever with AMD video cards getting 50% or fewer FPS than nVidia cards, and I don't remember seeing on any of AMD's release notes "improved performance in Simraceway". AFAIAC this thread can be locked as nothing useful is going to come of it.

 

Yes I said ISI needs to improve the code but you took it out of the context buddy. They need to improve the code with or without the help from AMD.

It's obvious that it would be easier with the help from AMD. So I didn't admit anything like what you try to make our of it. Don't spread nonsense now here. ISI stated they are working on it anyways but it's just taking much longer without any help from AMD to get there where they are with Nvidia. And BTW as you can see in the image posted above it's even worse than a 50% cut on AMD cards. It's literally horrible. Not worth the money, not at all! That's a very very small Indy dev team which is very inovative and devoloping top notch dynamic vehicle physics and a dynamic enviroment which you can't find in any othe racing simulation currently. 

You seem to be more a paid troll or what ever but you deffo have no idea what you are talking about now. Simraceway has nothing to do with the current engine, nothing. rF2 is out of beta since 6 months and is nowhere near 5 years in development. 

Before you try to spread nonsense again and put words in to my mouth which I never said or try to take stuff out of context do your homework better. Or at least instead making up things , just answer the few relevant questions I asked above and don't pick on irrelevant nonsense again.

 

If you want to confuse me or the people reading this, please do yourself a favour and do a better job, otherwise you are here only way way of-topic and as said, which is much worse BTW, sharing an amount of incredible false infos.

Move on dude if you have nothing to contribute here man. Just move on I don't see how you can gain something here other than being obviously an blind AMD fan or being on theire payroll.

 

 01/05/2014 10:23 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Vantharas
Sprite Maker

Posts: 3496
Joined: 03/01/2009

Actually he's right. If another racing sim has no issue useing the same game engine..... AMD isn't the one to blame in *any* shape form or fashion.

But nevertheless I did post up the catalyst feedback option which you can share on your forums. And get people to report it.  Which is about the only way anything gets to AMD directly. 

Unless ISI goes through AMD's devleoper channels. Anotherthing ISI could do is offer to adopt AMD's Mantle. Which will allow ISI to code for AMD graphics card at a hardware level instead of a software level. 

ISI has options. make sure they at least look into mantle. 

And frankly AMD is all about mantle right now so if ISI said Hey I wanna use Mantle. AMD would probably be more then happy to say heck yea go for it guys. 

Also keep in mind mantle isn't just for AMD cards. And AMD has said its open to allow other cards to take advantage of. but you know Nvidia will never go for that.

Also as far as fanboyism is concerned look at  your post praising ISI... clearly you are just as much an ISI fanboy as he is an AMD one. (no insult / disrespect intended bz or rsl) 

So lets not call each other names and get along shall we. 



-------------------------

I5 3570K@4~5.0ghz: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H:Corsair Hydro H110 :16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR-3 1600: XFX Radeon 7950 @ 1100/1575 : Corsair AX 860 PSU: x1 WD Black 1TB HDD's: 90GB Agility 3: 960GB SSD : Creative Labs X-FI:Corsair 500R Arctic White Edition:3 22inch Monitors Eyefinity @ 5294x 1050 : Alienware Tact-X Keyboard: Razer Naga :Corsair Vengence 1500 Headset: Corsair SP2500 Speakers



Edited: 01/05/2014 at 10:42 AM by Vantharas
 01/07/2014 09:16 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
DrR1pper
Peon

Posts: 3
Joined: 02/22/2010

Originally posted by: black_zion This is a user to user forum, the only answers you will get here are from people who don't work for AMD. Even the @AMD people can't really get you more information than you can with an email. I saw your posts on the ISI forums, and even you have said "ISI needs to improve the code" (your post Here) So you admit it's not an AMD problem, it's an ISI problem, and they can say whatever they want to about how AMD is holding up their progress but this game has been in development for going on 5 years, so either they have the most incompetent programmers this side of DICE, or they are lying their butts off saying it's an AMD problem. Want to know WHY I think they are lying their butts off? Because take another racing game which use the same game engine, ISImotor, called Simraceway. They have no issues whatsoever with AMD video cards getting 50% or fewer FPS than nVidia cards, and I don't remember seeing on any of AMD's release notes "improved performance in Simraceway". AFAIAC this thread can be locked as nothing useful is going to come of it.

I'm an nvidia user (switched over after the HD5870) but don't think it's exactly fair to see other AMD users getting such wrong performance.

black_zion....please do you reseach properly if you intend to post ever again......it's embarrassing for you.

Statistics
80928 users are registered to the AMD Support and Game forum.
There are currently 2 users logged in.

FuseTalk Hosting Executive Plan v3.2 - © 1999-2014 FuseTalk Inc. All rights reserved.