Topic Title: FX at 28nm.
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Created On: 12/08/2013 02:12 PM
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 12/08/2013 02:12 PM
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Crazyman
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AMD not making a FX 28nm. Steamroller is not a good idea, regardless of income. I just cant see someone with a AM3+ FX setup, especially if they have a X6/X8 moving over to a FM2+ X4 APU setup. Doesnt matter if the APU steamroller cores have higher IPC or not. Changing boards and processor and losing from 2 to 4 cores just seems like a down grade. My bet is 98% of AM3+ FX owners will just change over to Intel. There are alot more of FX owners out there then people think. I know alot of OEM will carry the APU, but they are going to lose all of the custom builders sales. Me for one. 



Edited: 12/09/2013 at 12:13 AM by Crazyman
 12/08/2013 02:57 PM
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AMDforMe
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Unfortunately you are correct. AMD has been advised of these realities by numerous sources. When the decision was made to not provide an upgrade path from Vishera it probably seemed like a reasonable idea in that Kaveri brings a lot to the table for mainstream PC consumers. Most PC enthusiasts however buy discrete CPU/GPU hardware for a very good reason - they can get exactly what they desire on both fronts - not what someone else thinks they should want or buy.

AMD is in pretty rough shape between years of mismanagement and now the complete re-organization of the company. The financial cost for these issues has been extreme and AMD has not only lost billions in sales annually they have lost the confidence of the marketplace and many industry partners. Kaveri has helped rebuild some of those relations because it's a giant leap forward for the industry, thus it means more revenue for all involved.

Unfortunately AM3+ has been essentially abandoned in the process for a variety of reasons, none of which would pass mustard in a well run company however. AMD could easily deliver a 28nm Steamroller socket AM3+ CPU and generate good profit from it but the mentality is that PC enthusiasts will flock to Kaveri because it's AMD's future.

I don't believe for a minute that the majority of current AMD based PC enthusiasts are going to toss their AM3+ hardware and buy an FM2+ system because AMD refuses to deliver a proper upgrade path for Vishera. I believe AMD is simply going to lose customers to Intel. AMD won't even notice however as Kaveri sales will be a big boost for them based on mediocre sales for the past 3-5 years. In the end AMD and it's customer base both lose as Kaveri is not what the typical PC enthusiasts wants or will buy.



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Building a reliable PC involves more than just assembling the parts. You need to be able to configure all of the BIOS settings appropriately. This can be quite involved and frustrating as it can require a lot of trial and error with stress testing. It is however often the only means to get a 100% reliable PC.

 12/09/2013 12:10 AM
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Crazyman
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I know its the cash hang up. The only way there was going to be a FX 28nm. steamroller is if they had a big push in the server area with a full 8 core and above die with no GPU and L3 cache. Since that looks like its not happening, I dont see a desktop version soon. Dont think we will see another 8 core AMD till they hit 22/20nm. with a APU and probably no L3 cache.

 12/09/2013 09:19 AM
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AMDforMe
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Servers will get FM2+ CPUs with the GPU section fused off. The server folks are very concerned with power consumption and FM2+ can handle more power levels effectively so AMD hopes these castrated FM2+ CPUs will buy them some time to deliver a real CPU. APUs also have their place in some server farms.



-------------------------

Building a reliable PC involves more than just assembling the parts. You need to be able to configure all of the BIOS settings appropriately. This can be quite involved and frustrating as it can require a lot of trial and error with stress testing. It is however often the only means to get a 100% reliable PC.

 12/10/2013 01:44 PM
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neo5555
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Originally posted by: Crazyman My bet is 98% of AM3+ FX owners will just change over to Intel. 

 

I already have...  just 2 weeks ago..  been an AMD fan for over 10 yrs now but they have been a huge let down since BD was released. 



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 12/12/2013 10:08 PM
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Crazyman
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Been using AMD since like 1994, way back in the K5/6 days. Pretty sure my next build will be a Intel. Using a 8120 clocked at 4.5 and skipped Vishera/Piledriver waiting for Steamroler. Doesnt look like its going to happen.

 12/12/2013 11:51 PM
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AMDforMe
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No unfortunately Steamroller AM3+ was killed off. Many folks were planning to buy a Steamroller AM3+ CPU. AMD dropped the ball on this one thinking AM3+ people would just move to FM2+ and it simply is not going to happen.



-------------------------

Building a reliable PC involves more than just assembling the parts. You need to be able to configure all of the BIOS settings appropriately. This can be quite involved and frustrating as it can require a lot of trial and error with stress testing. It is however often the only means to get a 100% reliable PC.

 12/13/2013 07:09 PM
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Crazyman
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At 28nm, its all about die size for a FX and the amount of sales and the driving force behind the APU with OEMs and consoles. To me plus it would really drop the die size, I would have been satisfied with a FX steamroller with more and faster L1 and just drop the L3 cache. With the FX I just never really got ahold of the idea why such small and slow L1 and huge really slow L3. With more and faster L1 plus no L3 it would be a smaller die then the APU. Could run at hight clocks and probably overclock better. Would be a good seller.

 12/13/2013 11:57 PM
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AMDforMe
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Steamroller could have brought a 15+% boost over Vishera clock-for-clock and used less power on 28nm even potentially OC'ing even better than the FX-8350 does which is quite good.

IMO, the philosophical issues at AMD continue to drag down their sales and ability to grow and deliver new, better products in a consistent, timely and competitive fashion. They tend to have one-hit wonders that last a year of so and then they are technically behind the 8-ball again for 5-10 years.

While Kaveri, hUMA and HSA are all good, AMD simply hasn't been able to effectively execute across all major PC market segments. Intel simply has more resources and through illegal means has built an industry monopoly that AMD isn't going to be able to do much about. As a result current AMD customers will either buy competing products or submit to what AMD management believes they should buy. I've never seen the "we know better than you" marketing mentality work well for any company long term.



-------------------------

Building a reliable PC involves more than just assembling the parts. You need to be able to configure all of the BIOS settings appropriately. This can be quite involved and frustrating as it can require a lot of trial and error with stress testing. It is however often the only means to get a 100% reliable PC.

 12/14/2013 02:30 PM
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neo5555
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Originally posted by: AMDforMe  I've never seen the "we know better than you" marketing mentality work well for any company long term.

 

 

Except for Apple...  



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Pics of my rig
i7 4770k, custom water cooling, 8Gig Corsair Dom 2133 9-11-10-27, ASrock Z87 OC Formula, SilverStone ST-1500 PSU, Creative X-Fi Platinum, Logitech Z-5500D , 2xHIS 7970 CF, Asus VW246H Monitor, Win 7 64Bit HP, Corsair 800D Case

 12/14/2013 03:01 PM
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AMDforMe
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With a stock price drop from $700 to $500 even their days are numbered...



-------------------------

Building a reliable PC involves more than just assembling the parts. You need to be able to configure all of the BIOS settings appropriately. This can be quite involved and frustrating as it can require a lot of trial and error with stress testing. It is however often the only means to get a 100% reliable PC.

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