Topic Title: FX-8350 Overheating
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Created On: 03/27/2014 01:21 AM
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 03/27/2014 01:21 AM
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cs30109
Peon

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I have an FX-8350 that consistently overheats when running at full load.  I am using the stock cooler, but not trying to overclock.  I am not a gamer and hadn't run intensive computational software until recently, so it was a while after building the computer before I discovered there was a problem.  I first noticed this when running x-ray crystallographic software that uses all 8 cores to build protein models, which at one point caused the computer to instantly shut off, presumably because it exceeded the temperature limit.  After that, I started testing with prime95 while monitoring temperatures, and saw that with all cores fully loaded the temperature steadily climbs to 75 C (at which point I usually halt the test, so who knows how high it would get).

I have already tried reseating the heat sink and fan.  I removed the heat sink and original thermal pad (using 100% high purity isopropanol and lint-free pads for residue cleanup) and applied Arctic Silver 5 according to the manufacturer's instructions (pre-tinting heatsink and processor surfaces and applying a single drop to the center of the processor).  It made very little difference in terms of temperature.

I could get a new cooler, obviously, but I really feel that the stock cooler would not have been designed to permit overheating, so surely there must be something else wrong?  Does anyone have any ideas what it could be?  The motherboard's fan monitoring utilities indicate that the heatsink fan tops out around 3500-4000 rpm.  Is that correct?  Should I swap out the processor under warranty?  Are there any bios settings that I am likely to have set incorrectly?  I have an Asus Crosshair V Formula-Z motherboard, using the most recent BIOS available, with mostly default settings.

 03/27/2014 08:27 AM
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Hardwood
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What is the ambient temperature?

How many case fans?

 



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#3: Athlon 64 X2 4200+, AGP 1950pro, Audigy 2, Asus A8V-D, 2gig ram, Enermax 465P, Antec900case. Now on Win8.1pro cat 10.2

 03/27/2014 10:16 AM
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Robocod
Peon

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Stock cooler is rubbish I was in the same situation while gaming with an 8350.My temps were hitting 60 all cores with 7 fans running in push pull config and that's max advised temp for the CPU.Hyper Evo coolermaster solved my problem.

 03/27/2014 10:30 AM
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cs30109
Peon

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Hardwood:

Ambient temperature of the room is around 20 C.  The processor idles at a similar temperature, only a couple of degrees higher than ambient.  There are four case fans, two intake and two exhaust, but I don't think that's the issue.  I've already tried removing the side panel and pointing a strong room fan at the opening, and it made no difference.

Robocod:

I'd be delighted to have my temps max out at 60 C; at least that's under the maximum, if only slightly.  When I look at temperature graphs, they appear to plateau around 76 C at full load, although I don't let things get that far if I can help it.

I'm pretty sure I'm monitoring the correct core temperature as well; both Core Temp and OverDrive give similar results for the individual cores.

Surely, there must be a problem, either with my settings, my heat sink/fan, or a defect with the processor.  How common is this kind of defect and can it lead to high temperatures like this?  I'm trying to figure out how likely it is that this will need to be returned under warranty, and what the probability is that doing so will fix the problem.

 03/27/2014 11:21 AM
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AMDforMe
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The OE AMD CPU fan/heatsinks work just fine for any reasonable ambient temps so I'd suggest that something is amiss if your core temps are above 60C with an ambient room temp of 20C. I emphasize core temps as many folks read CPU temp which is not the core temp. AMD specifies the max core temp on the FX-8000 series to be 61.1c for 24/7 use. The system should shut down if the core temp reaches 75C.

I'd go into your BIOS and see if the fan speed setting option for the CPU is set to 100%. Typically they are closer to 65% by default unless you raise it. Most of the smaller OEM fans require 4,000 plus rpm to flow enough air to cool a very power hungry 8-core CPU.

One person here seemed to think they received the incorrect HSF with their FX-8350. That is also a remote possibility and something that AMD tech support should be able to confirm via a tech support ticket.

Next I would check the CPU vcore voltage under load. Many mobos have poor vcore control and they tend to over-volt the CPU when it is under heavy load. If your mobo has Load Line Conditioning (LLC), adjust it to the setting that holds the vcore voltage to below 1.35v under heavy P95 stress testing type loads. If your vcore is running in the 1.4v range as we have seen with other FX-8350 overheating situations, the mobo or BIOS is the problem.

AMD thoroughly tests all CPUs just prior to packaging so it's extremely rare for a CPU to go bad. Based on many reported overheating cases the likely  issue is CPU cooling or over-voltage from the mobo. The applet OCCT will allow you to record the voltages and temps while stress testing. This is useful to see what is actually happening under load.

As far as TIM is concerned there is only a couple degrees difference in the OE and top 25 TIMs so that isn't the problem or the solution.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Thermal-Compound-Roundup-February-2012/1490/5



-------------------------

Building a reliable PC involves more than just assembling the parts. You need to be able to configure all of the BIOS settings appropriately. This can be quite involved and frustrating as it can require a lot of trial and error with stress testing. It is however often the only means to get a 100% reliable PC.

 03/27/2014 03:23 PM
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cs30109
Peon

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Thanks for your suggestions.  I will report back here tonight after I have tried them.

 03/27/2014 04:07 PM
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black_zion
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Next time you are on Newegg pick you up a set of Arctic Silver Arcticlean it's very cheap, and makes removing TIM, even old, hard, baked on TIM, as easy as drip drip wipe, and it smells of citrus. One set can do easily over 20 CPUs.

Make sure your BIOS is setting the correct voltage as well, 1.35v. But for computationally intense programs, I would highly suggest an aftermarket cooler to keep the stress down, and noise levels. The Corsair H60 is an inexpensive, quiet, powerful option.

-------------------------
ASUS Sabertooth 990FX/Gen3 R2, FX-8350 w/ Corsair H60, 8 GiB G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133, XFX HD 7970 Ghz, 512GB Vertex 4, 256GB Vector, 240GB Agility 3, Creative X-Fi Titanium w/ Creative Gigaworks S750, SeaSonic X750, HP ZR2440w, Win 7 Ultimate x64
 03/27/2014 09:58 PM
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AMDforMe
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cs30109-

I'm glad to help.

As always black_zion is hawking the H60 cooler which is one of the WORST possible coolers anyone could install in a PC for several reasons:

1. H2O coolers leak water, they can short circuit the PC hardware and burn it up. This is documented.

2. There are over (100) CPU heatsink fans that out perform an H60, cost as little as 2/3rds the price and none of them will EVER leak water to damage your PC.

The facts don't lie but people who lack the technical expertise to read and understand independent HSF performance test results constantly try to mislead AMD users. A technically educated consumer should not be duped by fanboism. Get the FACTS and skip the hype.

http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2705&page=5

Installing an H2O CPU cooler into your PC is a safety liability you never have with a HSF.



-------------------------

Building a reliable PC involves more than just assembling the parts. You need to be able to configure all of the BIOS settings appropriately. This can be quite involved and frustrating as it can require a lot of trial and error with stress testing. It is however often the only means to get a 100% reliable PC.

 03/27/2014 10:18 PM
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cs30109
Peon

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OK, so I apologize if I don't know what I'm doing.  I found the load line calibration setting, and I believe I have set it to the most conservative settings, in terms of temperature (no voltage boost at load, so temperature should be minimized).  My fan speed settings are set to "auto."  The Asus "Fan Expert" program shows that, at load, the fans are cycled to 100% which is around 4,000 rpm.

The problem is still occurring.  I have attached screen shots of what I think are my relevant BIOS settings, as well as a shot of the AMD Over Drive program monitoring core temperatures while prime95 runs.  You can clearly see that the thermal margin is being exceeded by several degrees (this program does not seem to report raw core temperatures, only the thermal margin).

The "Core Temp" program reports the CPU temperature as 74 C, but I'm not 100% sure this is the REAL core temperature.  I'm more inclined to trust the AMD program, which reports a margin of 4 C, which would be around 65 C if the margin is measured from the 61 C maximum.

I'm not sure what to do at this point.  I've gone through the BIOS looking for relevant settings, but unfortunately I'm not really an expert at this and there are a huge number of adjustable settings for this motherboard, many of which I don't fully understand.

Obviously I could buy an aftermarket cooler, and that might help a bit, but I'm convinced that something else must also be wrong.

If you open these image URLs in a new tab, you can see them at higher resolution.

CPU Configuration

Power Control

Temps

 

 03/28/2014 01:56 AM
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-rascal-
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The best option would be to get an inexpensive aftermarket CPU cooler. Not only does it keep the temperatures lower, it is also quieter during operation.

The stock heatsink should be sufficient for most tasks, but as you are saying, you are uisng the CPU to create protein models and pushing all 8 cores to use, but be pushing the CPU too hard for the heatsink to keep up.

Just for comparison sake, with my Thermaltake Frio CPU cooler, my FX-8350 reaches a maximum temperature of 45*C when running Prime95 - even when performing large FFT test.

  • 230mm front intake
  • 120mm front intake (through the 5.25" drive bays)
  • 200mm side intake
  • 120mm bottom intake
  • 120mm rear exhaust
  • 230mm top exhaust
  • two static pressure fans in push-pull for the CPU cooler

The first screen capture that you have there shows all the energy / power saving features of the CPU. Enabling them will definitely reduce heat whenever the the CPU is not heavily utilized or any of the cores are not needed for the task. Cool'n'Quiet would be one of the features that will help in that scenario.

I would say to check your voltages (post a screen capture of them) as they would be a key factor in the heat output. For examples:

  • Core Voltage
  • NB (Northbrdige) Voltage
  • SB (Southbridge) voltage
  • HT Link voltage
  • DRAM voltage

 

I don't see any issues with using closed-loop All-in-one liquid coolers. Sure a air cooler could provide the same performance, but you'd have to spend ~$70 - $80 or more to obtain that. Plus, the operating noise is much greater. The benefit of water-cooling is obviously, lower temperatures, reduced operation noise, and cleaner (asthetics) around the CPU socket area.

Even I've been considering in getting a closed-loop (yet expandable; Swiftech H220? Cooler Master Glacer 240L?) water-cooling system myself.

 



-------------------------

Phenom II X6 1090T @ 4.1GHz FX-8350 @ 4.8GHz // ASUS Crosshair V Formula 990FX // Sapphire Radeon HD Dual-X 7970 @ 1150/1500 // Thermaltake Frio w/ push-pull (using Antec Formula 7 Nano-Diamond + Cooler Master JetFlo fans) // 8GB (2 X 4GB) G.Skill RipJawsX 2133MHz  // Corsair TX850 850W // Corsair Force GT 120GB SSD (OS) // Kingston V200+ 120GB SSD // WD Caviar Black 1TB // Windows 7 Ult x64



Edited: 03/28/2014 at 02:05 AM by -rascal-
 03/28/2014 12:13 PM
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AMDforMe
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cs30109-

The Core Temp applet should provide  pretty accurate core temps in the ~40C-70C range. That is what I'd use not the "difference".

I suspect there is an issue with the CPU vcore over-volting. You should try the OCCT applet to record your CPU temps and vcore while you stress the system. You want to use the LLC setting that holds the vcore to the default FX-8350 vcore of ~1.35v, under heavy load. If the vcore is going higher, it is the likely source of CPU overheating. You could also e-mail AMD tech support a picture of the HSF assembly to be sure the HSF is the correct one for the FX-8350 which produces more heat than the lesser core FX models.

As far as aftermarket coolers go, there are literally hundreds of excellent HSFs that cost LESS than an H2O system, perform BETTER than an H2O system and NEVER LEAK WATER - to short circuit and destroy your PC hardware.

The links I posted show you the FACTS regarding CPU cooler performance and you can confirm the cost savings with a HSF over the H2O systems at Newegg or any PC hardware retailer. The fact that there are over a HUNDRED superior HSFs compared to a Corsair H60 and many cost less than the H60, shows just how inferior the H series is in addition to the unavoidable water leak liability that ALL H2O systems suffer.

As an example the Coolermaster 212 Evo for instance is a far better cooler than the H60 and it only cost 2/3rds the price but most importantly it can never leak water to damage your PC. I suggest PC enthusiasts read the threads in the Corsair forums on failure rates of the H series coolers and Corsair's refusal to disclose the failure rates. It's an eye opener for technically astute enthusiasts. Even the Corsair fanbois get tired on chronic H series failures.

http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2655&page=4

http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2705&page=5

Even if H2O coolers were cheaper than HSFs I would NEVER recommend them when a HSF does the job properly and does NOT impose a very serious water leak liability that is unnecessary.

IMO, people should technically educate themselves on CPU coolers and then buy what makes them happy. They are the ones who need to live with the consequences of their decisions. You don't however want to be technically illiterate on something as important as electrical safety and your PC as the consequences can be terrible.

Let's see what the vcore voltage shows under load.



-------------------------

Building a reliable PC involves more than just assembling the parts. You need to be able to configure all of the BIOS settings appropriately. This can be quite involved and frustrating as it can require a lot of trial and error with stress testing. It is however often the only means to get a 100% reliable PC.



Edited: 03/28/2014 at 12:38 PM by AMDforMe
 03/28/2014 07:41 PM
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Vegan
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a cheap way to fix the problem is some Arctic MX-4 which allowed me to OC my CPU to the insane speed of 4.0 GHz

 

 



-------------------------

 03/28/2014 08:50 PM
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mrfla
Nerfed

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You see, overheating comes with high voltage,high clock and cpu usage/time. If your using your cpu at full load for hours with stock cooler, that's for sure it will start to heat,btw enable your C1E option in bios. Stock cooler is not meant to use cpu at full load for hours, same as for cars, there's no car dealer that tells you that you can race with pedal full throttle all day without any trouble...I would suggest you to get good cooler if you planning to use it full load frequently.

 03/30/2014 11:37 AM
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cs30109
Peon

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OK, thanks everyone for your replies and information.

Here are screen shots and relevant graphs from an OCCT run.  I don't think there are any obvious problems.  The CPU VCORE starts off at 1.35 V, and drops to around 1.265 V under full load (makes sense, because I disabled load line calibration so there should be no compensation for the voltage drop under load).

At this point, I will probably just try an aftermarket cooler to see if there's any improvement.  Maybe there's something seriously wrong with my stock cooler.  I probably want something quieter in any case, even if I were able to fix this problem with my stock cooler.  I gather there is some controversy in this board over the use of water cooling.  I was probably going to go with air anyway...I can believe that a good water cooler would in principle be able to do better than air, but I just don't have the time to fool around with all that.

OCCT Screen Shot at end of test run (max temperature):

Note - the CPU says "4114 Mhz" as the clock speed, but this was only a transient spike.  If you look at the graph, you can see that it is running at a constant clock rate of around 4010 MHz.

OCCT screenshot

Fan Speed

Fan Speed

CPU Frequency

CPU Frequency

CPU Vcore:

CPU Vcore

Temperatures:

Temperatures



Edited: 04/02/2014 at 05:20 PM by cs30109
 03/30/2014 12:09 PM
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crabscg
Peon

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room temp its 88f to 90f i live in Puerto rico  and its very hot always case fans 4 cpu fan tower 140mm fan

 

 03/30/2014 03:29 PM
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QB the Slayer
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I see quite a few things

  • All your voltages are a little on the low side, what is your PSU?
  • Why is there only one temperature being monitored?  There should be many more.  We need to see them all.
  • Your V-core drops to 1.18V and that will surely cause restarts/BSOD/errors
  • Looks like you have Turbo enabled, and it seems to be fighting with the app (frequency going up and down when it should be rock solid stable)

Here is where you can add things to monitor:

 

 

QB



-------------------------

The MONSTER HTPC:

CPU: AMD FX-8350.||.Cooler: Corsair H80i
MB: Gigabyte 990FXA-UD7.||.RAM: 8 GB Mushkin Blackline DDR3 2000MHz (7-10-8-27-1T)
Case: CoolerMaster HAF 932.||.PSU: Corsair HX750
GPU:Asus R9 270X DirectCU II TOP.||.Audio: Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro w/ Logitech Z-5300e (5.1, 280W-RMS)
System Drive: 2xSamsung 840 Pro 128GB RAID0.||.Working Drive: 2xMushkin Chronos 60GB RAID0

 04/02/2014 05:15 PM
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cs30109
Peon

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Well, now I just feel silly.

After all that fooling around with BIOS settings, I put in a Hyper 212 EVO cooler today.  Now my maximum temperature is holding steady at 48 C under full load.  So, a difference of at least 28 C, just by changing out the cooler.

I really think there must have been something wrong with my old one---or else, AMD is shipping coolers that don't actually cool their processors enough to run all 8 cores at full load.  But that would be hard to believe.

Thanks, everyone, for your suggestions.

 04/02/2014 10:31 PM
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AMDforMe
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Naturally a larger aftermarket cooler is going to cool much better than the OE, but if you have some issue causing the OE HSF to not cool properly - such as too high of vcore, you'll want to fix the root problem.

As far as the OE cooler I suggest sending a picture to AMD tech to see if they can determine if it is the proper model for your CPU. The correct OEM AMD cooler does cool the 8-core CPUs without issue.



-------------------------

Building a reliable PC involves more than just assembling the parts. You need to be able to configure all of the BIOS settings appropriately. This can be quite involved and frustrating as it can require a lot of trial and error with stress testing. It is however often the only means to get a 100% reliable PC.

 04/21/2014 01:18 PM
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ironman
Peon

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I really think you are not using enough thermal paste. I had the same issue with my 8350. I initially put a single drop on the cpu. But I was getting 48c idol and 78c under gaming load and this condition was shutting down my computer because of the excessive heat. I have a after market older zalmun cnps9500 am2 heatsink. All I did was reapplied the thermal paste but not just one little drop like I initially done. I used two big drops enough to have the heat transfer between the cpu and the heatsink no gaps this cpu gets very hot. Hey two good drops is not going to harm your computer. Now I get 29c idol and 52c gaming. 

 04/21/2014 01:32 PM
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UcouldBrong
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Many methods of TIM install.  Personally and some colleagues have obtained great result using a thin coating on each interface surface.  Mid 20s idle to mid to upper 30s under load depending on ambient temps.  Water cooled user configured fan curve with low rpm, high efficiency fans.



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Non-noob components.



Edited: 04/21/2014 at 01:38 PM by UcouldBrong
AMD Support and Game » AMD Processors (CPU) » FX-8350 Overheating

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