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Topic Title: Heads-Up on Latest version of AMD Overdrive
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Created On: 04/06/2014 12:57 PM
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 04/06/2014 12:57 PM
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AMDforMe
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The latest version of AMD Overdrive V4.3.1.0690 no longer shows CPU/APU "core temp" or internal temp. AMD has unwisely changed from the internal core temp reading to "thermal margin". While this might sound convenient for the technically challenged because AMD has failed it's customers in recent years by NOT listing the max 24/7 CPU core temp operating temp for their CPUs/APUs online, the new "thermal margin" routine is a cluster.

The new thermal margin display does NOT use the proper 24/7 CPU/APU max internal core temp to determine the thermal margin. It uses the TjMax temp instead, which is the point where the CPU/APU is so hot that it drops the CPU/APU vcore and frequency to try and prevent the CPU/APU from burning itself up. The TjMax temp is considerably higher than the 24/7 defined max CPU/APU operating internal core temp.

You may ask: "Why does this matter" ?

It matters because the CPU/APUs typically start showing errors once you exceed the 24/7 max internal core temp by a few degrees. So as an example the FX-8000 series CPUs have a 24/7 max CPU temp of 61.1C according to AMD engineering. By using the FX-8000 series TjMax temp of 70C, the so called thermal margin is ~9C higher than the true max 24/7 operating temp specified for these CPUs.

IME at ~65-66C the FX-8000 series CPUs tend to start showing errors which result in BSOD, system freezes and re-boots. If your FX-8000 powered PC is running at a temp that is still within the thermal margin as defined by the latest version of AOD, your system could be running for instance ~4C above the specified 24/7 61.1C max internal core temp and is highly likely to experience the above freezing, BSOD, etc. yet you would falsely believe it is still not overheating if you go by the AOD thermal margin which would show 5C still left.

For those who want to know the actual CPU temp in the 40C-70C range I strongly recommend using the applet Core Temp as the latest version of AOD is absurd IMO due to the thermal margin defect listed above.

I also recommend making all changes via the BIOS and not by any software as this has been shown to be problems in the past.

AMD has again failed their customers IMO !

http://sites.amd.com/us/Documents/AMD_OverDrive_Utility_AMD.COM_Release_Notes.pdf

http://sites.amd.com/us/game/downloads/amd-overdrive/Pages/overview.aspx



-------------------------

Building a reliable PC involves more than just assembling the parts. You need to be able to configure all of the BIOS settings appropriately. This can be quite involved and frustrating as it can require a lot of trial and error with stress testing. It is however often the only means to get a 100% reliable PC.



Edited: 04/07/2014 at 01:30 PM by AMDforMe
 04/07/2014 03:52 PM
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mrfla
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If your vcore drops that's because of some settings in your bios because it can run at 70-75C at 4.8ghz without droping i mean on a fx 8350. I dont know what you talking about but the core temps works when the vcore is at normal voltage not at idle voltage, get it at 1.2v+ you will see the correct vcore temps. Stop whinning. Ok each core can reach max 60-70C but all cores togheter can reach a maximum of 80-90C , now you can see that in HWMonitor from CPUID, each core temp will be shown when the voltage is not on idle such 1.2volts and + but at idle it will show 7-9C because of that voltage. On AMD Overdrive it shows different, it shows you the degres left before shuting down, if a core is at 30C it will show you 40C so 40C left before shutting down.



Edited: 04/07/2014 at 04:25 PM by mrfla
 04/07/2014 04:19 PM
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black_zion
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I fail to see the problem. Aside from servers, HPCs, and possibly some labs, who runs a processor at 100% 24/7? Even people that do something like Folding@Home, they use the GPU. Anyone who does go 100% 24/7 will have liquid cooling which will keep the temperatures well below 60°C anyway.

-------------------------
ASUS Sabertooth 990FX/Gen3 R2, FX-8350 w/ Corsair H60, 8 GiB G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133, XFX HD 7970 Ghz, 512GB Vertex 4, 256GB Vector, 240GB Agility 3, Creative X-Fi Titanium w/ Creative Gigaworks S750, SeaSonic X750, HP ZR2440w, Win 7 Ultimate x64
 04/07/2014 04:30 PM
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mrfla
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Seriously i don't see any problem since i am testing AMD Overdrive with Prime 95 and it shows that i have 37C left of margin so it means,37C before my mobo shuts my computer because of overheating...lol but seriously .

Originally posted by: black_zion I fail to see the problem. Aside from servers, HPCs, and possibly some labs, who runs a processor at 100% 24/7? Even people that do something like Folding@Home, they use the GPU. Anyone who does go 100% 24/7 will have liquid cooling which will keep the temperatures well below 60°C anyway.

 04/07/2014 05:33 PM
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QB the Slayer
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Ummm... that's your GPU temp...

 EDIT:  LOL I guess the post above this was removed by the author...

QB



-------------------------

The MONSTER HTPC:

CPU: AMD FX-8350.||.Cooler: Corsair H80i
MB: Gigabyte 990FXA-UD7.||.RAM: 8 GB Mushkin Blackline DDR3 2000MHz (7-10-8-27-1T)
Case: CoolerMaster HAF 932.||.PSU: Corsair HX750
GPU:Asus R9 270X DirectCU II TOP.||.Audio: Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro w/ Logitech Z-5300e (5.1, 280W-RMS)
System Drive: 2xSamsung 840 Pro 128GB RAID0.||.Working Drive: 2xMushkin Chronos 60GB RAID0



Edited: 04/07/2014 at 08:06 PM by QB the Slayer
 04/07/2014 06:07 PM
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AMDforMe
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Originally posted by: mrfla If your vcore drops that's because of some settings in your bios because it can run at 70-75C at 4.8ghz without droping i mean on a fx 8350. I dont know what you talking about but the core temps works when the vcore is at normal voltage not at idle voltage, get it at 1.2v+ you will see the correct vcore temps. Stop whinning. Ok each core can reach max 60-70C but all cores togheter can reach a maximum of 80-90C , now you can see that in HWMonitor from CPUID, each core temp will be shown when the voltage is not on idle such 1.2volts and + but at idle it will show 7-9C because of that voltage. On AMD Overdrive it shows different, it shows you the degres left before shuting down, if a core is at 30C it will show you 40C so 40C left before shutting down.

You are incorrect and I'm not "whining". I'm alerting folks to the applet defect.

You need to educate yourself on "CPU temp" which is typically the SOCKET temp from the thermister below the CPU. It is NOT the CPU temp. The socket thermister typically runs 10C-25C above the CPU core temp depending on the CPU load and length of time under load. Core temp is the internal CPU temp and the one AMD specifies as a max for 24/7 use.

The FX-8000 series has a 70C TjMax temp at which the CPU starts to throttle itself, as I posted above.

Other CPU models can have a slightly higher or lower TjMax than the FX-8000 series, at which they throttle the CPU to prevent it from burning up.

The point however is that the CPU typically errors out once you exceed the AMD stated 24/7 max CPU internal "core temp" so using TjMax is not only the wrong reference point it misleads folks into thinking they have a higher safety margin than they actually have.

Those who don't understand the subject matter might want to do a little AMD white paper reading...



-------------------------

Building a reliable PC involves more than just assembling the parts. You need to be able to configure all of the BIOS settings appropriately. This can be quite involved and frustrating as it can require a lot of trial and error with stress testing. It is however often the only means to get a 100% reliable PC.



Edited: 04/07/2014 at 06:19 PM by AMDforMe
 04/07/2014 07:20 PM
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black_zion
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The people who run it with stock clocks, turbo on, stock heatsink, and with adequate airflow (which they will because even the most basic case these days has plenty of ventilation), will have no issues. The people who overclock will have aftermarket cooling to keep it at or below 60°C (I prefer 55°C if possible, a throwback to my Athlon64 6000+ Windsor OCing days) and will use programs actually worth using, OC via BIOS, and keep that AMD Overdrive garbage off their systems. So again, what is the actual problem?

-------------------------
ASUS Sabertooth 990FX/Gen3 R2, FX-8350 w/ Corsair H60, 8 GiB G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133, XFX HD 7970 Ghz, 512GB Vertex 4, 256GB Vector, 240GB Agility 3, Creative X-Fi Titanium w/ Creative Gigaworks S750, SeaSonic X750, HP ZR2440w, Win 7 Ultimate x64
 04/07/2014 10:39 PM
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MyMedia59
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Originally posted by: QB the Slayer Ummm... that's your GPU temp...

 

 EDIT:  LOL I guess the post above this was removed by the author...

 

QB

 

Yep, I did in shame, it's a weird day - planets alignment takes its toll!

 

http://www.news.com.au/technology/science/mars-earth-and-sun-to-align-in-rare-space-event-known-as-an-opposition/story-fnjwlcze-1226876224916

 

 



-------------------------

GA 990FXA-UD3v3
AMD FX-8320
Kingston 8GB 1600 HyperX
GPU Gigabyte R685OC-1GD
1x SSHD ST1000DX001/ 1x SATA3 WD Blue/ 1x STBV2000300
SeaSonic 650W
Win7x64

 04/08/2014 04:23 AM
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QB the Slayer
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It's all good...  I thought it was a "blonde moment", I was just waiting for the "wow, how'd I do that" reply 

QB



-------------------------

The MONSTER HTPC:

CPU: AMD FX-8350.||.Cooler: Corsair H80i
MB: Gigabyte 990FXA-UD7.||.RAM: 8 GB Mushkin Blackline DDR3 2000MHz (7-10-8-27-1T)
Case: CoolerMaster HAF 932.||.PSU: Corsair HX750
GPU:Asus R9 270X DirectCU II TOP.||.Audio: Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro w/ Logitech Z-5300e (5.1, 280W-RMS)
System Drive: 2xSamsung 840 Pro 128GB RAID0.||.Working Drive: 2xMushkin Chronos 60GB RAID0

 04/08/2014 10:50 AM
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AMDforMe
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Originally posted by: black_zion The people who run it with stock clocks, turbo on, stock heatsink, and with adequate airflow (which they will because even the most basic case these days has plenty of ventilation), will have no issues. The people who overclock will have aftermarket cooling to keep it at or below 60°C (I prefer 55°C if possible, a throwback to my Athlon64 6000+ Windsor OCing days) and will use programs actually worth using, OC via BIOS, and keep that AMD Overdrive garbage off their systems. So again, what is the actual problem?

The problem is that the latest version of AMD Overdrive uses the TjMax figure NOT the 24/7 max internal core temp to determine the thermal margin, thus it can report false information that makes it appear that the CPU is not overheated when it in fact is.

When overheated beyond the 24/7 internal core temp system hangs, crashes and BSODs typically occur. THAT is why the latest version of AOD is defective in design and not recommended by me.



-------------------------

Building a reliable PC involves more than just assembling the parts. You need to be able to configure all of the BIOS settings appropriately. This can be quite involved and frustrating as it can require a lot of trial and error with stress testing. It is however often the only means to get a 100% reliable PC.



Edited: 04/08/2014 at 12:28 PM by AMDforMe
 04/13/2014 10:45 AM
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mrfla
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AMDforMe i don't care of what you thinking here but you know, i see what i have in front of me and you see what you got. If your motherboard getting unstable just don't go over the Max wattage TDP even if your motherboard can overclock really high. The motherboard have a max TDP wake up. Now If you think your the AMD MAstermind good for you do as you want but BSOD is not from overheating since it should throttle down right?BTW the max TJ for fx 83xx it's 90C not 70C, the max your motherboard can take it's maybe 70C. The end



Edited: 04/13/2014 at 10:53 AM by mrfla
 04/14/2014 12:58 PM
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AMDforMe
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mrfla-

As you've demonstrated in other threads you really have little technical understanding of the issues as displayed by your incorrect posting of the FX-8000 series having a TjMax of 90C when it's actually 70C AND CONFIRMED IN WRITING TO ME BY AMD ENGINEERING AGAIN LAST WEEK. You should refrain from posting technically incorrect information that can mislead PC enthusiasts and cause fatal damage to their PCs.

I pointed out a defect in the latest addition of AMD Overdrive so people would not be misled by the new inaccurate thermal margin routine being used.

I suggest that people NOT use the latest version of AMD overdrive. If you want to know what your CPU temps are use Core Temp or an older version of AMD Overdrive. These programs show fairly accurate CPU temps in the 40C-70C range as confirmed by AMD engineering.

The latest AMD Overdrive using thermal margin falsely shows up to ~9C available range when in fact the FX-8000 series CPU is at it's maximum 24/7 operating temp - AS CONFIRMED TO ME BY AMD ENGINEERING IN WRITING.



-------------------------

Building a reliable PC involves more than just assembling the parts. You need to be able to configure all of the BIOS settings appropriately. This can be quite involved and frustrating as it can require a lot of trial and error with stress testing. It is however often the only means to get a 100% reliable PC.

 04/15/2014 05:29 PM
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black_zion
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One of the most critical items a PC needs to have is a line interactive sine wave UPS. Not only will it protect you against power fluctuations, it will also help protect against system damage due to a catastrophic power supply failure, as it will trigger the over wattage protection.

-------------------------
ASUS Sabertooth 990FX/Gen3 R2, FX-8350 w/ Corsair H60, 8 GiB G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133, XFX HD 7970 Ghz, 512GB Vertex 4, 256GB Vector, 240GB Agility 3, Creative X-Fi Titanium w/ Creative Gigaworks S750, SeaSonic X750, HP ZR2440w, Win 7 Ultimate x64
 04/15/2014 07:28 PM
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UcouldBrong
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Good airflow design...good airflow...better than "sufficient" cooling...temp monitoring and management...stable voltage settings...clean components will contribute close to "...a 100% reliable PC." because or in spite of AMD Overdrive.



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Non-noob components.

 04/21/2014 09:59 PM
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AMDforMe
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Folks none of what you posted has anything to do with AMD Overdrive's faulty and misleading thermal margin readout. You're wondering off topic.

You might want to start a new thread on PC cooling if you want to provide unrelated information to the software defect.



-------------------------

Building a reliable PC involves more than just assembling the parts. You need to be able to configure all of the BIOS settings appropriately. This can be quite involved and frustrating as it can require a lot of trial and error with stress testing. It is however often the only means to get a 100% reliable PC.

 04/22/2014 12:30 AM
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UcouldBrong
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We get your point, but...so what?  Deal with whatever comes your way.



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Non-noob components.

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