Topic Title: Radeon HD 4650 and Windows 8.1
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Created On: 02/19/2014 06:41 PM
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 02/19/2014 06:41 PM
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sixstorm1
Peon

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Joined: 02/19/2014

My 4 years old Dell laptop has a Radeon HD 4650. This laptop came with Windows 7 and had perfect graphics capabilities and no issues. Since upgrading to Windows 8.1, graphics have gone bad, from inconsistent FPS in games and video decoding to broken display acceleration with some apps.

The latest available drivers are part of the 13.4 Beta Catalyst suite, and haven't been updated since June 2013, and are obviously not entirely compatible with Windows 8.1.

Now my question is: Does AMD has plan to ever update these drivers?

AMD argue that "The AMD Radeon HD 4000, AMD Radeon HD 3000, and AMD Radeon HD 2000 Series have been optimized to their maximum potential from a performance and feature perspective." I understand that, but they certainly haven't been optimized to their maximum potential from a compatibility perspective.

Microsoft's own generic WDDM driver dates back from 2012 and is even worse. The fact that AMD has dropped the ball on a 4 year old graphics card series is frustrating as hell.

Thank you!

 02/19/2014 08:29 PM
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stumped
Wizard

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No. No. You obviously didn't check to see if your laptop could support Win 8.1. It does not. The 4xxx series graphics do not meet the requirements for Win8...but it will run. Win8.1...forget it. Go back to win7 and be happy, your not missing anything.



-------------------------

Intel I7 960 @ 3.87ghz *Intel DX58SO *HIS HD6970 2gb *Corsair TX650M *2x4gb Corsair XMS3 *WD Black 1TB *Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit ***Asus N71Jq laptop *Intel I7 720QM Processor *Mobility Radeon HD5730 1gb *8gb Ram *Windows 7 64bit ** Toshiba P75-A7200 * Intel I7-4700MQ * Windows 8.1 64bit


 * A clear conscience is usually a sign of bad memory *

 02/19/2014 09:24 PM
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sixstorm1
Peon

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Thanks for your reply, however:

1. The goal of my post is not to start a debate of whether Windows 7 is better than Windows 8.1.

2. "The 4xxx series graphics do not meet the requirements for Win8". False. Windows 8 graphics requirements are the same as Windows 7. WDDM has practically not changed since Vista, and the only requirement is being able to support DirectX 9, which the Radeon HD 4xxx series supports. "Does not meet the requirements" VS "Driver not compatible because the graphics manufacturer being too lazy to update it" is not the same thing.

3. Everything in this laptop is working perfectly in Windows 8.1 and has a compatible driver, except the graphics card. Things that didn't work out of the box with the Windows 7 drivers have been updated by their respective manufacturer with a Windows 8 driver (touch screen for example).

4. "You obviously didn't check to see if your laptop could support Win 8.1. It does not". The MS upgrade advisor does not agree with you. A 2010 laptop should be able to support the next generation of the OS it has been built for without any problems. I have put Windows 7 on 10 year old PCs with no issues. Why Windows 8.1 wouldn't work on a 4 year old laptop? It's not like if the requirements have changed, they even got lower. It's not because Dell does not officialy support the OS it that is not compatible.

5. I will not go back to Windows 7, for a number of reasons, notably because of touch screen features, multi-monitor taskbar, better performance and stability, etc. If you don't like Windows 8.1, that's fine, but as far as I am concerned, I am enjoying it.

6. NVidia has full Windows 8.1 support for 5+ years old chips, like the GeForce 100 series. My 6 year old NVidia graphics card in my desktop PC supports Windows 8.1 perfectly. This problem I'm having right now confirms I will definitely stick with NVidia chips in the future.

7. Why does AMD considers the Radeon HD 4650 as a legacy graphics card is beyond me. They stopped supporting it only 2 years (last stable driver being from 2012) after it stopped being sold in laptops in 2010.

Doing a little Google search shows tons of people having the same concerns.



Edited: 02/19/2014 at 09:34 PM by sixstorm1
 02/19/2014 09:41 PM
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stumped
Wizard

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When I said you didn't check to see if your laptop supported Win8.1, I meant check with the laptop manufacturer. If it were supported, they would have drivers for it. The 2xxx - 4xxx graphics (WDDM 1.) do not fully meet the requirements for Win8 and Win8.1 it doesn't meet at all.  Windows 8.1 introduces version 1.3 of the Windows Display Driver Model (WDDM). There are people out there who have laptops with Win8 but can not 'update' to Win8.1. So go to your laptop manufacturer and use their tool to see if yours meets the requirements. It doesn't. And the old "Nvidia does" has been overused.

Wiki:

WDDM 1.1[edit]

Windows 7 supports major additions to WDDM known as WDDM 1.1; the details of this new version were unveiled at WinHEC 2008. New features include:[9]

Hardware acceleration of GDI and Direct2D/DirectWrite operations helps reduce memory footprint in Windows 7, because DWM compositing engine no longer needs to keep a system memory copy of all surfaces used by GDI/GDI+, as in Windows Vista.[20][21][22]

DXGI 1.1, Direct3D 11, Direct2D, and DirectWrite were made available with Windows Vista Platform Update; however GDI/GDI+ in Vista continues to rely on software rendering[23] and the Desktop Window Manager continues to use Direct3D 9Ex.[24]

WDDM 1.1 drivers are backward compatible with WDDM 1.0 specification; both 1.0 and 1.1 drivers can be used in Windows Vista with or without the Platform Update.[9]

WDDM 1.2[edit]

Windows 8 includes WDDM 1.2[25][26] and DXGI 1.2.[26][27] New features were first previewed at the Windows BUILD 2011 conference and include performance improvements as well as support for stereoscopic 3D rendering and video playback.

Other major features include preemptive multitasking with finer granularity (DMA buffer, primitive, triangle, pixel, or instruction-level),[28] reduced memory footprint, improved resource sharing, and faster timeout detection and recovery. 16-bit color surface formats (565, 5551, 4444) are mandatory in Windows 8, and Direct3D 11 Video supports YUV 4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0/4:1:1 video formats with 8, 10, and 16-bit precision, as well as 4 and 8-bit palettized formats.[29]

WDDM 1.0/1.1 only allows rudimentary task scheduling using "batch queue" granularity; improvements to multitasking, as well as fast context switching and support for virtual memory, were initially expected in WDDM 2.0 and 2.1, announced at WinHEC 2006.[30][31][32]

WDDM 1.3[edit]

Windows 8.1 includes WDDM1.3[33] and DXGI 1.3.[34] New additions according to preliminary documentation are trim DXGI adapter memory usage, multi-plane overlays, overlapping swap chains and swap chain scaling, select backbuffer subregion for swap chain and lower-latency swap chain presentation. Driver feature additions include wireless displays (Miracast), YUV format ranges, cross-adapter resources and GPU engine enumeration capabilities.



-------------------------

Intel I7 960 @ 3.87ghz *Intel DX58SO *HIS HD6970 2gb *Corsair TX650M *2x4gb Corsair XMS3 *WD Black 1TB *Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit ***Asus N71Jq laptop *Intel I7 720QM Processor *Mobility Radeon HD5730 1gb *8gb Ram *Windows 7 64bit ** Toshiba P75-A7200 * Intel I7-4700MQ * Windows 8.1 64bit


 * A clear conscience is usually a sign of bad memory *



Edited: 02/19/2014 at 10:06 PM by stumped
 02/20/2014 09:51 PM
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Eydee
Ninja Zombie Killer

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Originally posted by: sixstorm1 Thanks for your reply, however:

 

1. The goal of my post is not to start a debate of whether Windows 7 is better than Windows 8.1.

 

2. "The 4xxx series graphics do not meet the requirements for Win8". False. Windows 8 graphics requirements are the same as Windows 7. WDDM has practically not changed since Vista, and the only requirement is being able to support DirectX 9, which the Radeon HD 4xxx series supports. "Does not meet the requirements" VS "Driver not compatible because the graphics manufacturer being too lazy to update it" is not the same thing.

 

3. Everything in this laptop is working perfectly in Windows 8.1 and has a compatible driver, except the graphics card. Things that didn't work out of the box with the Windows 7 drivers have been updated by their respective manufacturer with a Windows 8 driver (touch screen for example).

 

4. "You obviously didn't check to see if your laptop could support Win 8.1. It does not". The MS upgrade advisor does not agree with you. A 2010 laptop should be able to support the next generation of the OS it has been built for without any problems. I have put Windows 7 on 10 year old PCs with no issues. Why Windows 8.1 wouldn't work on a 4 year old laptop? It's not like if the requirements have changed, they even got lower. It's not because Dell does not officialy support the OS it that is not compatible.

 

5. I will not go back to Windows 7, for a number of reasons, notably because of touch screen features, multi-monitor taskbar, better performance and stability, etc. If you don't like Windows 8.1, that's fine, but as far as I am concerned, I am enjoying it.

 

6. NVidia has full Windows 8.1 support for 5+ years old chips, like the GeForce 100 series. My 6 year old NVidia graphics card in my desktop PC supports Windows 8.1 perfectly. This problem I'm having right now confirms I will definitely stick with NVidia chips in the future.

 

7. Why does AMD considers the Radeon HD 4650 as a legacy graphics card is beyond me. They stopped supporting it only 2 years (last stable driver being from 2012) after it stopped being sold in laptops in 2010.

 

Doing a little Google search shows tons of people having the same concerns.

 

 

 

1. Let's just skip this one...

2. If it was true, you could just use Vista drivers.

3. Sad, but end of support means end of support.

4. It's all about money. M$ stops supporting old systems to force you to buy new ones. AMD stops supporting old cards to force you to buy new ones. Otherwise everyone would use old cards (game system requirements haven't changed for many years) and AMD (and nvidia and Intel) would lose sales, maybe go bankrupt. A company won't go bankrupt because it wants to, it will use little tricks to survive.

5. Put 7 back to the laptop, sell it and get a new one that is supported. Or replace the card if it's replacable.

6. Nvidia also moved all it's non-DX11 cards to legacy state. The 100 series is not older a bit than the Radeon 5k series. You only see more generations for 2 reasons. 1. the Fermi fiasco. 2. because they rebrand more cards than AMD.

7. Stated in #4. A company isn't driven by feelings or what is fair. It makes decisions based on economy. They have to sell something to someone. Nobody would buy cards otherwise when ancient ones are still able to run any game. Well, would be...

 

Yes, it's a sad story, I was also very annoyed when it happened. Not because of W8, it didn't even exist yet, but because driver updates stopped coming. However, my 4850 died after a while (made in China...) so I had to update and have no legacy concerns since then.

 

When you finally get new hardware (in 2 weeks or 10 years, doesn't matter) you also won't care too much, just like you don't care now that an MX440 has no Windows 7 driver.



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CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 810 @ 3120MHz | RAM: Kingmax 2x2GB DDR2 800 @ 833MHz| MoBo: MSI K9A2 CF v1.0 (BIOS: 1.D)| GPU: Asus HD 6850 1024MB (DirectCu) @ 835/1135MHz | Display: L24FHD | PSU: PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad | OS: MS Windows 3.11 Pro x64

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