Topic Title: Catalyst 12.12 WHQL?
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Created On: 01/03/2013 02:32 PM
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 01/07/2013 01:53 PM
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neo5555
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Originally posted by: computergeekz360  

 

 People don't listen in this forum!

 

I guess I have to make this clearer.

 

 

People listen just fine here, we're just sick of hearing it...   Nvidia this, AMD that..  blah blah blah...   getting old dude.

However, i am intrigued as to why people ( like you ) gauge AMD ( or any other company for that matter ) depending on the frequency at which they release drivers. Why does it matter ?

What matters is what they fix/improve in the release..  thats all..   Just because nVidia releases them more often does not make them any better..  thats been proven time and time again.

But some people, it seems, get withdrawal symptoms if they don't get their regular dose of drivers.

One last thing, you said , and i quote " I never said I didnt like my card at all. I also never said I had any problems with it.".....
So why are you here complaining ??  I'm confused..   



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 01/07/2013 03:02 PM
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computergeekz360
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Originally posted by: neo5555
Originally posted by: computergeekz360  

 

 

 

 People don't listen in this forum!

 

 

 

I guess I have to make this clearer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

People listen just fine here, we're just sick of hearing it...   Nvidia this, AMD that..  blah blah blah...   getting old dude.

 

However, i am intrigued as to why people ( like you ) gauge AMD ( or any other company for that matter ) depending on the frequency at which they release drivers. Why does it matter ?

 

What matters is what they fix/improve in the release..  thats all..   Just because nVidia releases them more often does not make them any better..  thats been proven time and time again.

 

But some people, it seems, get withdrawal symptoms if they don't get their regular dose of drivers.

 

One last thing, you said , and i quote " I never said I didnt like my card at all. I also never said I had any problems with it."..... So why are you here complaining ??  I'm confused..   

 

Okay. I was never complaining. I was simply telling AMD why they are failing. I am a Computer Scientist/Software Engineer with AAR Aerospace and I sometimes help AMD with feedback for fixes.  First off, it does matter when drivers are released for new games and hardware support. There are many issues with the 12.10 as well as the 12.11b. Fixes any entry level engineer could fix easliy. As a consumer I have the right to gauge the company I have purchased  products from. Second, you said it yourself you are sick of hearing it. Must be a problem there. Third and Ill say it again. If AMD wants to win over the Nvidia crowd they will have to release drivers more often. The people who you say get "withdrawal symptoms if they don't get their regular dose of drivers." These are the people buying 90% of the products. If I were a company on the brink of failure I would listen to my customer base.



Edited: 01/07/2013 at 03:11 PM by computergeekz360
 01/07/2013 03:45 PM
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abohamed
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Originally posted by: computergeekz360
Originally posted by: neo5555
Originally posted by: computergeekz360  

 

 

 

   

 

 People don't listen in this forum!

 

 

 

   

 

I guess I have to make this clearer.

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

 

   

 

People listen just fine here, we're just sick of hearing it...   Nvidia this, AMD that..  blah blah blah...   getting old dude.

 

 

 

However, i am intrigued as to why people ( like you ) gauge AMD ( or any other company for that matter ) depending on the frequency at which they release drivers. Why does it matter ?

 

 

 

What matters is what they fix/improve in the release..  thats all..   Just because nVidia releases them more often does not make them any better..  thats been proven time and time again.

 

 

 

But some people, it seems, get withdrawal symptoms if they don't get their regular dose of drivers.

 

 

 

One last thing, you said , and i quote " I never said I didnt like my card at all. I also never said I had any problems with it."..... So why are you here complaining ??  I'm confused..  

 

 

 

 

 

Okay. I was never complaining. I was simply telling AMD why they are failing. I am a Computer Scientist/Software Engineer with AAR Aerospace and I sometimes help AMD with feedback for fixes.  First off, it does matter when drivers are released for new games and hardware support. There are many issues with the 12.10 as well as the 12.11b. Fixes any entry level engineer could fix easliy. As a consumer I have the right to gauge the company I have purchased  products from. Second, you said it yourself you are sick of hearing it. Must be a problem there. Third and Ill say it again. If AMD wants to win over the Nvidia crowd they will have to release drivers more often. The people who you say get "withdrawal symptoms if they don't get their regular dose of drivers." These are the people buying 90% of the products. If I were a company on the brink of failure I would listen to my customer base.

 

well said



-------------------------

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 01/08/2013 02:30 AM
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H0P3
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Happy new year to all!

 

Would like to add my 5cents to the topic.

I bought HD6990 a year ago. Had enough of the mediocre quality vga cards (medium range, medium quality, even if its good brand, they died on me, 3cards one after another). I also see that sli and dual cards are just terrible by design, they never work properly. Had two 8800GTS, good cards, sli was not working for years, due to driver issues. Stuttering, bad performance, terrible second card utilitation. So I wanted a dual gpu card with a horsepower that last at least 5-6years easily.

HD6990 is insane good hardware IMHO. Loud like hell (considering moving to water coolers, just too lazy and too tired about always add something to my machine -and to put money in it). If drivers would work properly, the sound wouldn't be that loud either because...

I play a lot of different games, but mostly WoW, BF3. BF3 now smooth and runs great, but WoW, well... Got very saddening situation.

I'm still using 11.6 driver, because thats the only one where WoW works OK. Not awesome, not good, just ok. Since then I saw a lot of topics about WoW and nvidia drivers and people complaining.

Not once since 11.8 WoW fixes were mentioned in the driver readmes, not once. There was some shadow related fix (flickering) that they were fixing in .8 if I recall correctly. But that -and some other unknown changes- totally made it worse.

-The card is heating up badly under wow.
-DX11 not working, useless. The game is stuttering and average is 25-30fps (instead of constant 60)
-Every other driver I tried is even worse, even in dx9 stuttering, average 30 or lower fps, in big open areas, below 20fps constant. 

I've contacted Blizzard, and they told me they are aware of the issues, they have communication with amd about it. They couldn't say anything specific.

I've created a couple of bug reports for amd, and also made a topic on the forum. Not one answer or question or reply happened from them officially.

I love HD6990, seems a solid and good hardware. But this was the last time ever I bought an amd product, I don't trust them ever again with my money.

I still waiting for the sollution since my product isn't useable as it should, dont expect me amd to throw the device out on the window though! I demand my working driver! 

 01/08/2013 04:08 AM
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stumped
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Originally posted by: H0P3 Happy new year to all!

 

Would like to add my 5cents to the topic.

I bought HD6990 a year ago. Had enough of the mediocre quality vga cards (medium range, medium quality, even if its good brand, they died on me, 3cards one after another). I also see that sli and dual cards are just terrible by design, they never work properly. Had two 8800GTS, good cards, sli was not working for years, due to driver issues. Stuttering, bad performance, terrible second card utilitation. So I wanted a dual gpu card with a horsepower that last at least 5-6years easily.

HD6990 is insane good hardware IMHO. Loud like hell (considering moving to water coolers, just too lazy and too tired about always add something to my machine -and to put money in it). If drivers would work properly, the sound wouldn't be that loud either because...

I play a lot of different games, but mostly WoW, BF3. BF3 now smooth and runs great, but WoW, well... Got very saddening situation.

I'm still using 11.6 driver, because thats the only one where WoW works OK. Not awesome, not good, just ok. Since then I saw a lot of topics about WoW and nvidia drivers and people complaining.

Not once since 11.8 WoW fixes were mentioned in the driver readmes, not once. There was some shadow related fix (flickering) that they were fixing in .8 if I recall correctly. But that -and some other unknown changes- totally made it worse.

-The card is heating up badly under wow. -DX11 not working, useless. The game is stuttering and average is 25-30fps (instead of constant 60) -Every other driver I tried is even worse, even in dx9 stuttering, average 30 or lower fps, in big open areas, below 20fps constant. 

I've contacted Blizzard, and they told me they are aware of the issues, they have communication with amd about it. They couldn't say anything specific.

I've created a couple of bug reports for amd, and also made a topic on the forum. Not one answer or question or reply happened from them officially.

I love HD6990, seems a solid and good hardware. But this was the last time ever I bought an amd product, I don't trust them ever again with my money. I still waiting for the sollution since my product isn't useable as it should, dont expect me amd to throw the device out on the window though! I demand my working driver! 

There is a search feature for this forum...if you use it you will find quite a few threads about WoW, the largest of which ended with two conclusions...1. there is a possible issue with certain Intel X58 and X79 chipsets and 2. a new 12.11beta seemed to have solved the problem. Here are the drivers > http://benchmark3d.com/amd-catalyst-12-11-beta-11-9-01-8 and I would do a clean install.

If you do have a Intel board I would check for updates here http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Default.aspx



-------------------------

Intel I7 960 @ 3.87ghz *Intel DX58SO *HIS HD6970 2gb *Corsair TX650M *2x4gb Corsair XMS3 *WD Black 1TB *Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit ***Asus N71Jq laptop *Intel I7 720QM Processor *Mobility Radeon HD5730 1gb *8gb Ram *Windows 7 64bit ** Toshiba P75-A7200 * Intel I7-4700MQ * Windows 8.1 64bit


 


 * A clear conscience is usually a sign of bad memory *

 01/08/2013 11:34 AM
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ruber
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Originally posted by: ruber Hello, Happy New Year, and Merry Christmas!

 

Can we expect Catalyst 12.12 WHQL some time soon, or just wait for 13.1?

 

Wow, my 'Happy New Year' grew in quite a stir-up, and this is not at all what I meant.

Overall I think AMD is doing a very good job on their driver updates. Take alone the fact AMD has never released even a beta driver that would put your hardware at risk. Unlike the green team which once (about a year ago) made a driver with a fatal problem in cooling.

Yet, AMD should have revised 12.11 beta for any minor bugs and released Catalyst 12.12 WHQL, a Christmas gift.  

My setup is a Core2Quad with 2x5870, which I'm planning to stay with another couple of years and then I will probably upgrade. What I would love to see 'improved' for my 5000 series is to get support for EQAA if only possible, because EQAA is worth it after I've tried it on another pc with Radeon 7970, where EQ makes better MSAA during motion.

--------------------------

I used to hate ATI's multisampling with lots of protruding wavy lines, but since then AMD has done a lot of improvements. I recently tried NVIDIA GTS450 and I wasn't impressed at all: their antialiasing is far from perfect even if you set it 8x transparency + 32x CSAA and override ingame settings. Plus textures less sharp. This could be a matter of habbit, by now I'm so used to AMD cards.

Comparing AMD and NVIDIA, I still don't think there is a huge advantage in either architecture, PhysX with CUDA on one side versus OpenCL (which AMD cards do certainly faster) and AMD stream on the other. Equall class cards are generally close.


The two architectures are different and that's it.

 

 

Merry Christmas Everyone!

 01/08/2013 01:09 PM
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computergeekz360
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Why were you trying to run a GTS450 at 8x transparency + 32x CSAA?? Was it  tetris? Please tell me what games you were tring to run them settings at? I'm sorry but I'm kinda laughing at you right now. As far as SLI is concerned I have always ran SLI. If you have all the right hardware and it is working properly SLI scales pretty good. I have had nothing but sli, tri  and quad sli sytems. If you don't know what you are doing there may be problems. Multi GPU configurations is not for novice users. It can't be tested in every environment possible. So when you take on a multi gpu system you are the tester in some cases. PNP dont apply to CF or SLI systems. The main reason I see people having problems unknowing to them is there PSU. Microstutter,crashing and lag is do to insufficient harware in alot of cases. For esample: I see most of the cases where people are playing for a while and it starts to lag/microstutter. This is a cooling problem. Well my cards are cards are WC they say. Is you PSU? They say its kinda warm on the outside. Did you test the inside? Did you do a voltage test? Do you have the tools to test your hardware? It is a spit in the eye of rational thought to say the game plays fine for 3 hours and then you start getting lag/microstutter and then blame it on software.Software can't possible deviate from the instructions it is programed to do. Run your car at full speed for 3 hours(max rpm) and see if it needs a break. A better example is if your car needs 700cca to start and you put in a 300 or it needs 93 octane and you cheap out and use 87 instead.  Lets see how well thats works out for you. Sure it will run but with diminished performance and might not start in some cases.

 01/08/2013 01:46 PM
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neo5555
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Originally posted by: computergeekz360  

 

Okay. I was never complaining. I was simply telling AMD why they are failing.

 

 

uhhhh...   yes, you were compaining.

 

 

Originally posted by: computergeekz360  

 

 I am a Computer Scientist/Software Engineer with AAR Aerospace and I sometimes help AMD with feedback for fixes. 

 

 


Thats a good one...   if that were true, you would then know that your efforts here are in vein, as AMD do not monitor these forums, and you would know to use the proper complaints/feedback channel.

That is why we're sick of hearing this nVidia vs AMD crap...

 

 

Originally posted by: computergeekz360  

 

 Third and Ill say it again. If AMD wants to win over the Nvidia crowd they will have to release drivers more often.

 

Again, nVidia have proven that quantity over quality does not work. They infact released a driver once which destroyed their customers cards...  see what happens when you rush things???  

Besides, you said it yourself, it just gives an illusion that they care..  your words, not mine.

And lastly, incase you hadn't noticed, AMD have consistently release drivers on a monthly basis...  how much faster would you like them to be ?

 

 

 

Originally posted by: abohamed  

 

well said

 

 

 

not really...  nothing there...  



-------------------------

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 01/08/2013 01:50 PM
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UcouldBrong
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Obviously there is NO perfect video card or driver but improvement marches on. 

Performance gains in all the components of your system can be expected if you upgrade your hardware and drivers.  Patience is often required to get drivers that optimize your games, but it is only part of the equation.

A point of diminishing returns will be reached if any or all of your hardware is getting on in "tech" years. 



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Non-noob components.

 01/08/2013 02:02 PM
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neo5555
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Originally posted by: stumped  

 

There is a search feature for this forum...if you use it you will find quite a few threads about WoW, the largest of which ended with two conclusions...1. there is a possible issue with certain Intel X58 and X79 chipsets and 2. a new 12.11beta seemed to have solved the problem. Here are the drivers > http://benchmark3d.com/amd-catalyst-12-11-beta-11-9-01-8 and I would do a clean install.

 

If you do have a Intel board I would check for updates here http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Default.aspx

 

Stumped,

Its far easier to just blame AMD..  It's AMD's fault that these people go from nVidia to AMD, only to realise that the grass isn't any greener, then come here and praise nVidia that they had no issues with them and drivers were released more often blah blah blah, and AMD is crap blah blah blah..

Oh, and god forbid should you even point the finger at Intel...  lets throw them in the mix shall we ?

 



-------------------------

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 01/08/2013 02:05 PM
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ruber
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Originally posted by: computergeekz360 Why were you trying to run a GTS450 at 8x transparency + 32x CSAA?? Was it  tetris? Please tell me what games you were tring to run them settings at? I'm sorry but I'm kinda laughing at you right now.

No, not Tetris, it was Sniper Elite V2, my favorite and one I am well familiar with. Why 8xTraa with 32xCSAA? => To reduce curvities as much as possible. To be fair I should say AMD's multisampling is not perfect either, but I had expected more from NVIDIA card.

 

 

Originally posted by: computergeekz360As far as SLI is concerned I have always ran SLI. If you have all the right hardware and it is working properly SLI scales pretty good. I have had nothing but sli, tri  and quad sli sytems. If you don't know what you are doing there may be problems. Multi GPU configurations is not for novice users. It can't be tested in every environment possible. So when you take on a multi gpu system you are the tester in some cases. PNP dont apply to CF or SLI systems. The main reason I see people having problems unknowing to them is there PSU. Microstutter,crashing and lag is do to insufficient harware in alot of cases. For esample: I see most of the cases where people are playing for a while and it starts to lag/microstutter. This is a cooling problem. Well my cards are cards are WC they say. Is you PSU? They say its kinda warm on the outside. Did you test the inside? Did you do a voltage test? Do you have the tools to test your hardware? It is a spit in the eye of rational thought to say the game plays fine for 3 hours and then you start getting lag/microstutter and then blame it on software.Software can't possible deviate from the instructions it is programed to do. Run your car at full speed for 3 hours(max rpm) and see if it needs a break. A better example is if your car needs 700cca to start and you put in a 300 or it needs 93 octane and you cheap out and use 87 instead.  Lets see how well thats works out for you. Sure it will run but with diminished performance and might not start in some cases.

Not that, Bud, it was ForceWare 196.75 that prevented the fan from spinning and caused a death of multiple graphics cards around the world. When Nvidia heard of that they removed the driver.

Here:

=> http://www.geeks3d.com/20100305/forceware-196-75-can-kill-your-geforce-card/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheGeeksOf3d+%28The+Geeks+Of+3D%29

 01/08/2013 02:11 PM
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neo5555
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Ruber,

Don't let that nVidia fanboy get to you...  the guy has no idea what he's talkin' about..   he should tho, as he is a scientist.  



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 01/08/2013 10:00 PM
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computergeekz360
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This is funny! I said what I had to say and gapped tooth hillbilly don't like being made a fool of? You are still missing the point and think I'm bashing AMD. I like AMD. I like my card. I'm not a Nvidia fanboy at all. I want AMD to get it right so they stay in business. I know AMD don't  monitor their forums and it is crazy. I can't believe you said that without flinching. You act like it is no problem they ignore thier customer feedback and problems and leave them up to morons like you. Yes I am a scientist. What? Do you have a problem with scientists? Why would being a scientist give me the infomation that a company don't monitor thier forums? I must say it don't reflect well on your intelligence. I'm done wasting my time here.Good luck neo5555 Mr. average IQ.



Edited: 01/08/2013 at 10:39 PM by computergeekz360
 01/08/2013 10:35 PM
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UcouldBrong
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Most of the readers who come here are looking for clear concise answers to problems they have encountered or enjoy others strategies in solving issues or finding information. 

We don't all have the same skills or think as quickly as "sometimes" more experienced enthusiasts do **but** no one should be angered or offended by other people's viewpoints.  If someone makes a point and someone disagrees...let them discuss with hopefully some facts and see if their argument holds up.  Ranting is tiresome and so is telling readers they are stupid or lazy.

 

Remember...UcouldBrong



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Non-noob components.

 01/09/2013 02:08 AM
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neo5555
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Originally posted by: computergeekz360    gapped tooth hillbilly 

LOLOLOLOLO...   Thats GOLD !!   I LOVE it !!!  

See ya !!  



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 01/10/2013 10:57 AM
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dsfunweaf
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If my card dies I will replace it with a nvidia one. AMD put my product into legacy status and that's not acceptable. They can't afford the luxury of losing customers. Knowing how to make people happy is important in a bussiness. 
 01/10/2013 02:52 PM
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djnicey
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Originally posted by: computergeekz360 @neo5555: I never said I didnt like my card at all. I also never said I had any problems with it.  I switched for the 4 free games and the sale price. The card runs good.  You missed the point(which I suspect that you do often)

 

I was  saying the main reason people buy Nvidia is becuase they release drivers on a regular basis. If AMD would just release more drivers they might stay in business.  As this is why they are failing and there CEOs are walking out. (Are you still following me?) Good. Now, If they released one driver a month over alittle time they may gain back some of the market. 2 or 3 months just wont cut it. Yes, I tried AMD this time. I thought I would give them a shot. But let me make it clear and this proves my point completely. If they don't fix their software department and get Some decent sofware engineers working for them. I will not buy AMD next time. I'll go back to Nvidia.

 

 

^This. Every card I've ever bought has been ATI/AMD, and I've bought many, but I'm starting to lose confidence in the company. It doesnt set a good image if they cant even get the basics like a monthly driver release organised.

I appreciate that they may need to make big driver changes for things like new cards, OS, crossfire games, etc, but surely these should be on a different track to the smaller changes? I dont see why it should take almost 3 months to release a new driver. 

I regret buying a second card to use Crossfire as game support is always lagging, Skyrim took ages and Far Cry 3 is also taking a huge amount of time. Dont AMD get to test and work on these games before they are released? Far Cry 3 is even an "AMD Gaming Evolved" title, I would expect better support for this game in particular.

 01/10/2013 10:53 PM
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UcouldBrong
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Only cards I've ever had go bad were nVidia but that wouldn't stop me from buying one if the specs were to my liking. 

My decision to purchase a couple of 7970's has rewarded me with unmatched performance...games, hardware and drivers mature.  You would be amazed how good my modded Skyrim performs and looks.  No problems with FC3 or any other games for that matter.

Played Crysis3 alpha MP and THAT game is what will test your (anybody's) system...believe it!  Drivers will mature for that game, too!

Hope you are ready.



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Non-noob components.

 01/12/2013 04:26 AM
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ruber
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So far AMD has been writing one new driver a month. In 2012 with 'no more monthly updates policy' they started releasing one beta and one whql driver every 2 months.

December 2012 they didn't release any driver at all, no whql, no beta. However, November 2012 they did 4 12.11  betas, which quite makes up for the vacational December 2012. Besides, there was one 12.12 WHQL driver for AMD integrated graphics and another one 12.12 Whql for Linux users.

The latest 12.11 is so good and stable that they could and should have WHQL'ed it as 12.12 new year edition, could have been with Santa in the inf tab.

----------------

I quite agree with computergeek360 that if AMD stops releasing new drivets at all, they will loose market for sure. In theory, as it has never been the case as I can reckon.

As for legacy drivers, all hardware manufacturers sooner or later have them. Nvidia is not an exception.

 01/23/2013 01:16 PM
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computergeekz360
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Joined: 12/01/2012

AMD today announced an operating loss of $422 million, and a net loss of $473 million, or $0.63 per share. The company reported a non-GAAP operating loss of $55 million and a non-GAAP net loss of $102 million, or $0.14 per share. For the year ended December 29, 2012, AMD reported revenue of $5.42 billion, an operating loss of $1.06 billion and a net loss of $1.18 billion, or $1.60 per share. The full year non-GAAP operating income was $45 million and non-GAAP net loss was $114 million, or $0.16 per share. While at the same time Nvidia is up 12.8%

Looks like I was wrong  Nope I was right on the money. I think I made a mistake buying AMD. They can bearly hold thier heads above water. How can we expect them to  invest new capital and spare no expense into the products we purchase. They must keep thier investers happy and to do that they must make money. The only way to do that is to cut cost and corners. Investers are not going to keep throwing thier money down the toilet. Am A Nvidia fanboy? After owning both. I like a company that knows how to market, invest and support thier products. Rather it is AMD or Nvidia. Would you go to the crappist mechanic that has no tools or fails to hire the right specialists to fix your car because there broke? No! I would hope not. I want to see a state of the art facility with certified techs. I want to see the company is making money and putting that money back into thier buisness. I just don't see it with AMD. I believe it will get worse and that is very sad. Allot of people are going to lose thier jobs.



Edited: 01/24/2013 at 08:55 AM by computergeekz360
AMD Support and Game » Desktop Catalyst Drivers and Software » Catalyst 12.12 WHQL?

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