Topic Title: 7570 MST support non-functional in w8
Topic Summary: Can't seem to upgrade to Catalyst 13.4
Created On: 09/09/2013 05:27 PM
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 09/09/2013 05:27 PM
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dburns
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On a new (refurbished July 2013) HP-1534 (10GB ram/AMD 6-core processor) w/Radeon 7570 (OEM driver pack 8.982.10.18-12114a-149782C-HP w/VISION Engine 2012.1114.401.6988), I plug a Dell U2713H (with DP 1.2 MST support) into the 7570 DP port via Dell mini-DP-to-DP cable and a EQ276W generic flat-panel into the 7570 DVI port.  Both come up fine under W8, and can be controlled as separate monitors via "HP (branded) AMD Vision Engine Control Center." When I attempt to 'daisy-chain' another Dell U2713HM (not "H") off the "DP-Out" port of the U2713H, the second daisy-chained monitor is not recognized by CCC nor W8 display control, and simply replicates whatever appears on the U2713H.  (The U2713HM also works fine when connected directly to the 7570 DVI port or DP port).  Even after explicitly enabling MST support in the U2713H monitor via it's OSD (per AMD & Dell documentation), the second monitor is not recognized as distinct.  AMD spt calls for Catalyst drivers of 12.8 or later for MST, (and the AMD online documentation mentions a section in the newer CCC that details DP 1.2 spt which is -not- present in my HP version) but when I attempt to uninstall the HP-branded CCC Catalyst suite ("Product Version 8.0.881.0") per the AMD video (with the guy with the British accent), the uninstall seems to run OK.  However, when subsequently attempting to install the Bright, New Shiny 13.4 ("13-4_win7_win8_64_dd_ccc.whql.exe"), it too runs to completion without complaint, but the CCC fails to run and exits with "No settings -Nothing to set", and the second daisy-chained display is not recognized, and still replicates.  Forum STICKY suggests that CCC failing to run indicates an unsuccessful driver uninstall.  I followed the steps!  No soap.  The AMD driver-uninstall utility only supports w7, and the "AMD Driver Autodetect" fails to detect the hardware and can't recognize the OS (either before or after the new CCC install), although it does manage to recognize that it is running in a 64-bit environment.  I have a Restore point just before the HP un-install, but it seems to be at the top of the "Escalator To Driver Hell", as once I get to the bottom (CCC 13.4 ostensibly installed), no MST, no CCC.  "What Next, Coach?"

 09/09/2013 05:52 PM
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WMudrockJr
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Ok so the procedure that works all the time for me is to un-install CCC from the Control Panel and selecting to remove all AMD software. Second to go to the Device Manager and un-install the Driver for my video card. This forces Windows back to the Default video driver.

I then install the newer version which for you would be 13.4.

I have started with the same HP branded AMD Vision Center you have. From there I have install 13.1, 13.4, 13.6 Beta 1/2, 13.8 Beta 2 and now 13.10.

Let me know how it goes. 



-------------------------

AMD A10-5800K, XFX 7850 Ultra OC Edition 975MHz, 16GB RAM, Win 8.1 Pro 64 bit, MSI 7778 motherboard, 500W PSU, HP P7-1235, CCC 13.12 WHQL

 09/09/2013 09:45 PM
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dburns
Peon

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Thanks so much for the reply!

My last machine was a 10 year old XP-Dell, and "Things are Different Now"..I'm a bit nervous about bricking this new machine.

I'm at my Restore point, and when I examine the current display driver in Device Manager...it already looks pretty generic to me.  I'm wondering, is there a more "Default" driver than this one?  Am I good to go?

Please have a look before I start ripping things out by the roots...

http://users.rcn.com/dvdbrns/DriverDisplay.GIF

 

 09/09/2013 10:35 PM
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WMudrockJr
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Your right that looks to be the default. You should be able to install CCC 13.4 from here.



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AMD A10-5800K, XFX 7850 Ultra OC Edition 975MHz, 16GB RAM, Win 8.1 Pro 64 bit, MSI 7778 motherboard, 500W PSU, HP P7-1235, CCC 13.12 WHQL

 09/09/2013 11:15 PM
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dburns
Peon

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Ummm... but I'm at my Restore point...I haven't uninstalled the original HP CCC, yet you are telling me the actual device driver appears to be generic already.

Consequently, if I uninstall HP CCC and try to install 13.4 CCC, I'll simply be descending the Escalator again:  a 13.4 CCC that won't start, with generic device drivers already in place.   I've done that twice.

I think my situation is different from yours...I'm not changing video cards at all, just trying to replace CCC (and presumably whatever underlying low-level device driver that must mesh with it) in order to support MST.  Maybe the first time you did the CCC upgrade, you dumped a low-level device driver for a different card, put in the AMD card, and when you upgraded the CCC it recognized that there was no suitable AMD low-level driver and installed one.  Whereas I seem to be stuck with a generic low-level driver that doesn't work.

I'm thinking there is something special (and irksome) about the HP OEM configuration.

Here's the HP CCC showing that it "knows about" MST ("Multi-stream transport"...the "daisy-chaining" capability), but it thinks (erroneously) that the U2713H can't do it.  The monitor came with a piece of documentation that said "Turn on MST by doing <this>" (via the OSD).  I did <this>!

http://users.rcn.com/dvdbrns/MonitorDisplay.GIF

Here's AMD telling me that when an MST-capable device is connected, it'll turn on a "DisplayPort Diagnostic" display in CCC.  My HP CCC seems to know about MST, but maybe it isn't showing this diagnostic display because it is mistaken about the U2713H being MST-capable (due to the old generic low-level driver?):

http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/DrivingMultipleDisplaysFromaSingleDisplayPort.aspx

I think 13.4 should fix me, if I could just figure out how to get it installed (along with it's presumably updated low-level driver).

Were you switching from a non-Radeon card to an AMD Radeon card when you did the upgrade that replaced the HP CCC?

(Shooting in the dark, here!  Whatever ammo you've got, I'll take!)

 09/09/2013 11:54 PM
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WMudrockJr
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I guess I didn't understand that you had not removed the HP installed CCC. 

My HP came with onboard graphics but I did have Windows 7. I did upgrade to Windows 8 Pro. I had to do what I describe to get to 13.1 CCC.

Then I tried to go to 13.4 CCC and had more issues which forced me to do a Windows 8 refresh which updated fine. I also got to remove all that HP crap. This comes from a retired HP guy. Many of my friends that had done a upgrade have had issues.

Once I did that I have had a great running machine but I needed more GPU. So I upgraded the PSU form 300 to 500 and added the HD 7850.

If you have access to Windows 8 disc you might want to do the same. This would give you a fresh copy of the O/S without HP being included.



-------------------------

AMD A10-5800K, XFX 7850 Ultra OC Edition 975MHz, 16GB RAM, Win 8.1 Pro 64 bit, MSI 7778 motherboard, 500W PSU, HP P7-1235, CCC 13.12 WHQL

 09/10/2013 01:34 AM
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dburns
Peon

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Actually you did understand...I did remove the HP-installed CCC...the 13.4 CCC didn't work, and I used W8 Restore function to return the system to the state it was in before I removed the HP-installed CCC...so I'm back to where I was: no MST support.

I don't have a W8 disc, as the system came with a restore-partition...which likely is configured with HP versions...so not much hope there.

Thanks for the story on your system...I'm certainly having trouble with the HP version of this software...guess I'm not alone.

 

 09/10/2013 02:03 AM
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WMudrockJr
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Have you tried HP updated driver version 9.12.2.3000 which is newer than 8.982.10.1800. It might work can't be any worse. Since you have the restore point available.



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AMD A10-5800K, XFX 7850 Ultra OC Edition 975MHz, 16GB RAM, Win 8.1 Pro 64 bit, MSI 7778 motherboard, 500W PSU, HP P7-1235, CCC 13.12 WHQL

 09/10/2013 09:54 AM
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dburns
Peon

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No, I haven't!  Good Idea...I haven't pushed into HP land...I was kinda hoping I could find The Latest & Greatest over here in AMD land.

Please tell me how you are aware of that particular HP driver kit...can you quickly point me to an HP URL where I can investigate that end of things?

"TIA" for the potential ammo!

 09/10/2013 11:55 AM
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WMudrockJr
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Sure just go to www.shopping.hp.com and scroll to the bottom. You will see Product support for Support & drivers. The HP Support page select Drivers & Downloads. Then enter  ENVY h8-1534 in the model search, which will give one match found. Select the match and which now will ask about your O/S. Select the BIG NEXT, and scroll the page down to see all the available selections.

Try it and see if you get it to take. Sometime OEM setups are so customized that you are stuck with there stuff.

Let me know how it goes.



-------------------------

AMD A10-5800K, XFX 7850 Ultra OC Edition 975MHz, 16GB RAM, Win 8.1 Pro 64 bit, MSI 7778 motherboard, 500W PSU, HP P7-1235, CCC 13.12 WHQL

 09/11/2013 03:44 AM
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dburns
Peon

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I used your pointer and downloaded the later version, did an install but still "No Soap".

I bit the bullet and called HP support, given my warranty will run out in less than a month.

I put together a webpage with all the gory details, and noticed the date on the generic PnP monitor driver was 2006.  MST support arrived in 2010.   This does not augur well.

I spent 1 hour, 40 minutes bouncing around HP support (sometimes the call seemed to be routed via the far side of the moon), and I finally got connected to a smart person (a woman) who immediately grasped not only the trouble but my suggested source: driver version skew.

I now have hope!  But they want me to pay $60 for help because three monitors is a special non-standard configuration!!  Oh Puh-leeze.  I got the lady to admit I might have a point about not being charged $60 if it turns out their drivers are misconfigured. So far they haven't leaned on me for a card number.

So thanks for pointing me back to HP...we'll see if they can figure it out.  The Good News is everybody was very polite, even friendly, and though I was transferred about six times, they never dropped my call.

Must be the 21st Century!

 09/11/2013 01:02 PM
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WMudrockJr
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Yes please let me know how it goes. That is a strange one. They might want to try something remotely or maybe have you ship back your unit.

Good luck with it, but your system is a pretty good setup once you get it to work the way you intended.



-------------------------

AMD A10-5800K, XFX 7850 Ultra OC Edition 975MHz, 16GB RAM, Win 8.1 Pro 64 bit, MSI 7778 motherboard, 500W PSU, HP P7-1235, CCC 13.12 WHQL

 09/12/2013 12:04 AM
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dburns
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Wow!  I really did get a call back from HP 24 hours later (tonight around midnight USA EDT), and they went remote on my machine and took a tour of the trouble.

I think what happened is Priya (the lady I spoke with) got down and dirty with the details and really 'got it'.  I think she explained it to her boss who came on the line, I explained what I would do if I were still working at DEC on drivers (as I did decades ago) and her boss said he'd email AMD with the details and see what they say!

They promised to call back again tomorrow night around midnight my time.

How 'bout them apples?    I'm delighted so far, even though I'm not fixed yet.  I told them both I was grateful for their attention.

I asked Priya where she was and what time it was.  She is located in Hyderabad, India (near the center of the country), and when it was 11:04PM on the USA east coast here, it was 8:45AM or so there in India.

With that information, I believe I've discovered something very useful about Tech Support based in India:  If you call at midnight from the USA, You Get the "A-Team" in Inda!  Interesting, huh?

My first call yesterday was at 4PM or so, and I think I got the "C-Team"...they recognized it was beyond them and backed out of the room bowing (very polite, but not aggressive about trying to solve.)  Live and learn, huh?

The other thing I did (which helped a lot) was I created a short webpage with a summary of the problem and multiple screen dumps (in an attempt to avoid endlessly repeating myself)  If you're curious, it's "users.rcn.com/dvdbrns/mst.html".

And here I am, looking forward to tomorrow's call from India!  Cross your fingers for me!

 

 09/12/2013 02:33 PM
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WMudrockJr
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Yes I will keep my fingers crossed, the C-Team I will have to remember that one.

Good luck with the A-Team.



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AMD A10-5800K, XFX 7850 Ultra OC Edition 975MHz, 16GB RAM, Win 8.1 Pro 64 bit, MSI 7778 motherboard, 500W PSU, HP P7-1235, CCC 13.12 WHQL

 10/21/2013 08:59 PM
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dburns
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HP Support was no avail.  They had no clue.  They ran the clock out on my warranty, the last thing they said was they would escalate the problem and I'd get a call back in 48 hours.  I got no call back and the ticket was closed.  No surprise, I guess, I knew more about the product than they did.

I've now received a windows 8.1 upgrade from Microsoft, and the AMD Vision Engine Control Center shows nothing except "Pinned" and "Presets" in the left column...no control over any displays, however some of the information that used to appear there is now accessible via Control Panel under a tab labeled "AMD Vision Engine Control Center" reachable via "Advanced Settings".  It's just a w8.1 hodge-podge of new nested subwindows, but staring at the driver files/properties does suggest new AMD drivers arrived with 8.1., but not a hint of MST support is now present in any OS Control Panel window and of course MST doesn't work.

A close examination of AMD's website seems to indicate that the 13.9 Catalyst Control Center suite does not support the HD 7570 card in my machine.  It's an OEM card, and it appears that might be the reason CCC doesn't work (at least 13.4 didn't).  It's very curious, because the HD 7500 series is explicitly mentioned as supporting MST...but try and find any trace of software support and I find nil.

HP began offering updated driver packs for w8.1 for this machine on their driver-support site, but have offered no new graphics-card drivers as of this date.

You'd think hardware technology (MST over DP) that is 4 years old might finally be supported in software, but there doesn't seem to be much pressure for it, much less knowledge about it.

The 21st Century: When 4 year old hardware capability is "bleeding edge"!

 

 10/21/2013 11:06 PM
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WMudrockJr
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That is why I got my card from non OEM list, HP and others are slow or don't give a hoot after you bought it. 

You could do a Refresh back to Windows 8 and try the HP driver for Win 8, but I'm not sure if had tried that yet.

I spent the weeked rolling people back off Windows 8.1 because of non support for there OEM cards. They ask what version I'm using, then I explain I don't have a OEM card, so I'm good.

Refresh process:

1) Do Windows 8.1 Refresh which will take you back to Windows 8.

2) Check windows update to be up todate.

3) The biggest re-install software, including the HP driver set for Win 8

4) Sit back and wait for HP to create 8.1 drivers so you can upgrade to 8.1 then.



-------------------------

AMD A10-5800K, XFX 7850 Ultra OC Edition 975MHz, 16GB RAM, Win 8.1 Pro 64 bit, MSI 7778 motherboard, 500W PSU, HP P7-1235, CCC 13.12 WHQL

 12/04/2013 08:15 PM
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dburns
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HP Support did come through and I was escalated to a case manager, but she basically threw up her hands and told me she has no resources to call on....can't fix it.

I decided I'd bite the bullet and do the system integration that HP should have done and go buy a cheap AMD-based board for which I can download the AMC CCC & drivers from their website.  I was perusing the Microcenter site and thought I'd look at HP monitors...sure enough there was a 27" HP monitor that had two reviews.  One said "Great monitor!"  the other said "Great monitor, but I couldn't get it to work with the DisplayPort ...."tried two monitors and two different video cards.  If you want to use DisplayPort, expect connectivity issues."  DUH!

That sealed it for me: HP just doesn't have it together to support this technology.  I told the case manager she could close the ticket.

My next move is to install a new card + drivers, but my situation is a bit different from yours since I'll be endeavoring to un-install from an HP-supplied W8 (whereas you had switched to the generic W8).  (The case manager got me a system-restore DVD pack which brought the machine back to original factory condition -on W8, and I could prove to the case manager it was screwing up MST support ...so my machine is now back to W8).

Even though my machine will be "HP-W8", I ought to be able to install a different (non-OEM) video card + drivers without being blocked, right? (And without going to a generic W8 install as you did.)

I'd then upgrade to W8.1 (again.)

Any guesses as to how this might go?  (Appreciate whatever your experience can offer!)

 

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