Topic Title: FX-8350 throttling down duirng stress test
Topic Summary: It throttles down, yet no errors arise and temperatures are in check
Created On: 04/07/2014 04:23 AM
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 04/07/2014 04:23 AM
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-rascal-
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So, I was able to finally find to time to overclock my FX-8350, and I am running into a odd throttling issue where the CPU throttles down to 2.8GHz via decreased multiplier.

According to HWMonitor and AIDA64, CPU temperatures, Core temperatures, NB temperatures, and SB temperatures all seem to be within safe limits.

The system does crash or anything; the Stability Test just keeps on proceeding.

Before we go further, my system specs are in my signature...but...to follow forum procedures:

Graphics Card
Sapphire Dual-X Radeon HD 7970, 11197-11-40G @ stock frequencies

AMD Catalyst Driver Version, and Driver History

WQHL 13.12

Operating System
Windows 7 Ultimate x64

Issue Details
FX-8350 CPU is throttling during stress testing (AIDA64 Stability Test). Temperatures seem to be still within safe limits, with CPU temperature reaching a maximum of 56*C, Core temperatures in ~49*C, and NB temperature at ~47*C.

During stress testing, CPU will throttle down to 2.8GHz via decreased multiplier.

Motherboard or System Make & Model
ASUS Crosshair V Formula (non-Z) 990FX

Power Supply
Corsair TX850 (v1)

Display Device(s) and Connection(s) Used
ASUS VS228H-P

Acer G215H

Applications and Games
AIDA64 Stability Test

CPU Details
FX-8350 @ 4.8GHz (attempt)

CPU-NB @ 2600MHz

HT Link @ 2600MHz

Screen captures of BIOS settings are provided at the bottom of the post.

Motherboard BIOS Version
BIOS version 1703 (latest available)

System Memory Type & Amount
8GB (4GB X2) G.Skill RipjawsX DDr3 2133MHz, Model # F3-17000CL11D-8GBXL. Currently set @ 1600MHz with standard 9-9-9-24-1T timings with 1.6V


 
Additional Hardware
Corsair ForceGT 120GB SSD (OS)

Kingston V200+ 120GB SSD

Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB

 

Thermaltake Frio CPU cooler with Cooler Master JetFlo fans in push-pull configuration

Antec Formula 7 Thermal compound

 

Cooler Master HAF 932 Computer chassis

230mm front intake fan

200mm side intake fan

120mm front intake fan (5.25" drive bays)

120mm bottom intake fan

230mm top exhaust fan

120mm top-rear exhaust fan


Additional Details
Prime95 was ran on Large FFT test, and "ILLGEAGAL SUM OUT" error was obtained, but it was resolved by increasing the CPU core voltage.

 

CPU is stable during light usage (i.e. web browsing, idling a desktop, etc).

 

CPU Core voltage is set to 1.375V in BIOS, but it does rise up to ~1.39V. It commonly stays at ~1.38V during stability testing.

 

I have "APM Master Mode" on Auto. I don't know of that could be a contribution to the cause.

 

 



-------------------------

Phenom II X6 1090T @ 4.1GHz FX-8350 @ 4.8GHz // ASUS Crosshair V Formula 990FX // Sapphire Radeon HD Dual-X 7970 @ 1150/1500 // Thermaltake Frio w/ push-pull (using Antec Formula 7 Nano-Diamond + Cooler Master JetFlo fans) // 8GB (2 X 4GB) G.Skill RipJawsX 2133MHz  // Corsair TX850 850W // Corsair Force GT 120GB SSD (OS) // Kingston V200+ 120GB SSD // WD Caviar Black 1TB // Windows 7 Ult x64



Edited: 04/07/2014 at 04:35 AM by -rascal-
 04/07/2014 09:14 AM
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black_zion
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APM Master Mode is your problem. According to the AMD FX Tuning Guide

AMD Turbo Core Technology

AMD Turbo Core Technology and Application Power Management (APM) allow the CPU cores to run above the CPU Base clock value as long as the CPU remains within the thermal and power limits. As an example the AMD FX-8150 CPU has a base clock of 3600MHz but it can run at 3900MHz when up to 8 cores are active and at 4200MHz when up to 4 cores are active assuming it stays within the power and thermal limits. Under very heavy workloads the CPU will return to the base clock - 3600MHz in the case of AMD FX-8150 CPU. Since APM sets a predefined TDP limit it is usually recommended to disable both AMD Turbo Core Technology and APM features when increasing the CPU frequency and voltage above the default levels. The AMD Turbo Core Technology and APM can be disabled via AMD OverDrive utility or from the motherboard BIOS menu.


-------------------------
ASUS Sabertooth 990FX/Gen3 R2, FX-8350 w/ Corsair H60, 8 GiB G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133, XFX HD 7970 Ghz, 512GB Vertex 4, 256GB Vector, 240GB Agility 3, Creative X-Fi Titanium w/ Creative Gigaworks S750, SeaSonic X750, HP ZR2440w, Win 7 Ultimate x64
 04/08/2014 01:55 AM
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-rascal-
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Originally posted by: black_zion APM Master Mode is your problem. According to the AMD FX Tuning Guide
AMD Turbo Core Technology AMD Turbo Core Technology and Application Power Management (APM) allow the CPU cores to run above the CPU Base clock value as long as the CPU remains within the thermal and power limits. As an example the AMD FX-8150 CPU has a base clock of 3600MHz but it can run at 3900MHz when up to 8 cores are active and at 4200MHz when up to 4 cores are active assuming it stays within the power and thermal limits. Under very heavy workloads the CPU will return to the base clock - 3600MHz in the case of AMD FX-8150 CPU. Since APM sets a predefined TDP limit it is usually recommended to disable both AMD Turbo Core Technology and APM features when increasing the CPU frequency and voltage above the default levels. The AMD Turbo Core Technology and APM can be disabled via AMD OverDrive utility or from the motherboard BIOS menu.

Ah, thank you B_Z!! I knew you would have the answer.

Anyways, I've disabled APM Master Mode...that is located in the BIOS > Advanced Tab > CPU Configuration (as in my above BIOS screen captures).

I will run some stability tests and see how things turn out.

 

As far as voltage goes, are any of them too high/low?

I'm thinking I can drop the HT Link and/or SouthBridge voltage down. I believe stock SB voltage was 1.12v? The HT comes stock clocked at 2600MHz, and I haven't done any overclocking on it, yet I still bumped the voltage up to 1.25v.



-------------------------

Phenom II X6 1090T @ 4.1GHz FX-8350 @ 4.8GHz // ASUS Crosshair V Formula 990FX // Sapphire Radeon HD Dual-X 7970 @ 1150/1500 // Thermaltake Frio w/ push-pull (using Antec Formula 7 Nano-Diamond + Cooler Master JetFlo fans) // 8GB (2 X 4GB) G.Skill RipJawsX 2133MHz  // Corsair TX850 850W // Corsair Force GT 120GB SSD (OS) // Kingston V200+ 120GB SSD // WD Caviar Black 1TB // Windows 7 Ult x64

 04/08/2014 09:19 AM
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black_zion
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I would see if you can increase the CPU VDDA to 2.75v and drop the Vcore to 1.35v (or lower).

-------------------------
ASUS Sabertooth 990FX/Gen3 R2, FX-8350 w/ Corsair H60, 8 GiB G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133, XFX HD 7970 Ghz, 512GB Vertex 4, 256GB Vector, 240GB Agility 3, Creative X-Fi Titanium w/ Creative Gigaworks S750, SeaSonic X750, HP ZR2440w, Win 7 Ultimate x64
 04/10/2014 03:34 AM
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-rascal-
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Originally posted by: black_zion I would see if you can increase the CPU VDDA to 2.75v and drop the Vcore to 1.35v (or lower).

I bumped the votlage up to ~1.375V just for the sake of being sure voltage is not an issue (I hope). I don't know about increasing the CPU-VDDA, though. I was told to be careful (or best to leave it at the default 2.5V)...but this was a few years ago, when I had my Phenom II X6 1090T AND my Crosshair IV Formula 890FX motherboard configuration, though.

I turned off APM Master Mode in the BIOS, and I was still getting this odd throttling issue.

It seems to happen 12 - 13 minutes into the AIDA64 System Stability Test. The thing is, it looks like it is a re-creatable issue, too.

I have AMD OverDrive installed as well, so I uninstalled that. I have the program installed, but I never had it opened, nor is it set to run on start-up. I am uncertain if OverDrive is interferring with something or what-not.

I checked the power-saving features within windows...and they are all turned off (i.e. set to "Never.")

  • Perferred plans --> Higher Performance
  • Turn off the display --> Never
  • Put the computer to sleep --> Never
  • Hard Disk - Turn off hard disk after --> 20 minutes (default)
  • Interet Explorer - JavaScript Timer Frequency --> Maximum Performance (default)
  • Desktop background settings - Slide show --> Available (default)
  • Wireless Adapter Settings - Power Saving Mode --> Maximum Performance (default)
  • Sleep After --> Never
  • Allow Hybrid Sleep --> On
  • Hibrinate After --> Never
  • Allow wake timers --> Enable
  • ...etc.

Temperatures (according to HWMonitor and AIDA64)

  • Motherboard - Maximum: 26*C
  • CPU - Maximum: 52*C
  • Cores - Maximum: 45*C
  • FX-8350 Package temperature - Maximum: 45*C
  • SB - Maximum: 33*C
  • NB - Maximum: 49*C / 50*C

EDIT: I left AIDA64 Stabililty Test running while I was writing this up...so far 17 inutes has gone by, and the CPU is still running at ~4.8GHz. Hmm...

Also, all I do is simply start the stability test, and I just go and do something else while I wait. Every now-and-then I just come back at examine the temperatures and voltages. I'm not sure if just letting the computer sit has any contribution to the cause.

EDIT #2:  23 minutes in, and we are still going good...

EDIT #3: 35+ minutes in and it's still good....damn, ~43 minutes and we are down to 2.8GHz again...

You know what, I'll give Prime95 a try. I don't know if it's something on AIDA64's end or not...



-------------------------

Phenom II X6 1090T @ 4.1GHz FX-8350 @ 4.8GHz // ASUS Crosshair V Formula 990FX // Sapphire Radeon HD Dual-X 7970 @ 1150/1500 // Thermaltake Frio w/ push-pull (using Antec Formula 7 Nano-Diamond + Cooler Master JetFlo fans) // 8GB (2 X 4GB) G.Skill RipJawsX 2133MHz  // Corsair TX850 850W // Corsair Force GT 120GB SSD (OS) // Kingston V200+ 120GB SSD // WD Caviar Black 1TB // Windows 7 Ult x64



Edited: 04/10/2014 at 04:06 AM by -rascal-
 04/10/2014 06:28 AM
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QB the Slayer
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A little off topic, but important:

you should set your power profile to NEVER turn your SSD's off.  Here is some good reading about setting up Windows with SSD's

http://www.thessdreview.com/ssd-guides/optimization-guides/the-ssd-optimization-guide-ultimate-windows-8-edition/

 

QB



-------------------------

The MONSTER HTPC:

CPU: AMD FX-8350.||.Cooler: Corsair H80i
MB: Gigabyte 990FXA-UD7.||.RAM: 8 GB Mushkin Blackline DDR3 2000MHz (7-10-8-27-1T)
Case: CoolerMaster HAF 932.||.PSU: Corsair HX750
GPU:Asus R9 270X DirectCU II TOP.||.Audio: Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro w/ Logitech Z-5300e (5.1, 280W-RMS)
System Drive: 2xSamsung 840 Pro 128GB RAID0.||.Working Drive: 2xMushkin Chronos 60GB RAID0

 04/10/2014 10:37 PM
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-rascal-
Farming Materials

Posts: 538
Joined: 01/15/2011

Originally posted by: QB the Slayer A little off topic, but important:

 

you should set your power profile to NEVER turn your SSD's off.  Here is some good reading about setting up Windows with SSD's

 

http://www.thessdreview.com/ssd-guides/optimization-guides/the-ssd-optimization-guide-ultimate-windows-8-edition/

 

 

QB

 

Thanks QB. I looked into the link that you posted and I did a little optimizing with my SSD - obtained a few more GB of storage space.

 

Anyways, back to topic. I decided to run Prime95 Blend Test instead of AIDA64. I ran into the "rounding error 0.5 instead of 0.4" and "ILLEGEAL SUM OUT" errors, I've not done the following

  • Loosened the RAM timings a little bit
  • Increased CPU Core voltage up to 1.4V (~1.38V didn't help)
  • Increase CPU VDDA up to 2.6V (stock is 2.5V).

The system doesn't crash or anything, just 2 of the 8 workers stop. Due to this, I am able to simply stop Prime95, reboot, and adjust the settings in BIOS.

I will try agian with the above voltage settings.

I did experience one occurance where the system froze when running Prime95. I had CPU-Z and HWMonitor open, and it showed the Core voltage dropped to ~1.35V when this happened. This is when I attempted to reduce the Load-Line-Calibration down by one. Raising it back up fixed the issue.



-------------------------

Phenom II X6 1090T @ 4.1GHz FX-8350 @ 4.8GHz // ASUS Crosshair V Formula 990FX // Sapphire Radeon HD Dual-X 7970 @ 1150/1500 // Thermaltake Frio w/ push-pull (using Antec Formula 7 Nano-Diamond + Cooler Master JetFlo fans) // 8GB (2 X 4GB) G.Skill RipJawsX 2133MHz  // Corsair TX850 850W // Corsair Force GT 120GB SSD (OS) // Kingston V200+ 120GB SSD // WD Caviar Black 1TB // Windows 7 Ult x64

 04/11/2014 11:04 AM
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black_zion
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Increase your CPU VDDA to 2.75v. What this setting does is counter droop under load. Is it always the same 2 cores which throw an error or are they different? Does it also throttle at stock speeds and voltages?

-------------------------
ASUS Sabertooth 990FX/Gen3 R2, FX-8350 w/ Corsair H60, 8 GiB G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133, XFX HD 7970 Ghz, 512GB Vertex 4, 256GB Vector, 240GB Agility 3, Creative X-Fi Titanium w/ Creative Gigaworks S750, SeaSonic X750, HP ZR2440w, Win 7 Ultimate x64
 04/11/2014 07:43 PM
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Ed6698
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I would also turn off the Cpu Spread Spectrum, PCIe Spread Spectrum, drop the CPU/NB Freq to 2400, and give the ram just a little more voltage. That cured the issue I had with cores dropping out a year ago.



-------------------------

AMD 8350FX 4.5ghz//Asus Sabertooth 990FX R2//Zalman 9900Max//4x8gb Corsair Vengeance 1866//Corsair Force GT 90GB OS+240GB games ssd //WD 250gb Scorpio Black//PNY GTX680 sli//HP w2408h//Corsair hx1000//Antec 1200//Windows 8.1 x64

 04/12/2014 12:46 AM
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black_zion
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I'd also suggest you do my version of a stability test:

1) Compress several GB worth of files with your preferred program 3 times.
2) Convert a long (preferably 1.5 hours or more) movie file into a very large movie file (high bitrate and resolution) 3 times. I prefer Windows Live Movie Maker for this, as it is also GPU assisted.
3) 1 hour of 3DMark11 all tests on a loop using the Performance preset.
4) 1 hour of the Haven benchmark in a loop.

Of course there is the debate over relative and absolute stability, but CPU torture tests can cause false instability results, and I have come to accept relative stability as the way to go, which stems from my OCing days on my Athlon64 x2 6000+ Windsor which ran hotter than HELL even with my Xigmatek HDT S-1283.

-------------------------
ASUS Sabertooth 990FX/Gen3 R2, FX-8350 w/ Corsair H60, 8 GiB G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133, XFX HD 7970 Ghz, 512GB Vertex 4, 256GB Vector, 240GB Agility 3, Creative X-Fi Titanium w/ Creative Gigaworks S750, SeaSonic X750, HP ZR2440w, Win 7 Ultimate x64
 04/12/2014 02:43 PM
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Damric
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Sounds like you are TDP limited. It seems that on many ASUS and ASRock boards, even if you disable APM, there is a hidden granny feature that keeps the VRMs from overloading. Unfortunately it's too conservative. It's keeping me from achieving epic 5GHz+ clocks on my Athlon 760K on air as well. You can trick it using custom Turbo P states in AOD, but with very unbalanced frequencies. If I knew how to program a custom BIOS, I'm sure it could be disabled, like an LN2 mode.



-------------------------
If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle.
 04/12/2014 11:34 PM
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-rascal-
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Originally posted by: black_zion Increase your CPU VDDA to 2.75v. What this setting does is counter droop under load. Is it always the same 2 cores which throw an error or are they different? Does it also throttle at stock speeds and voltages?

Oh, I never kneow CPU-VDDA counter Voltage drooping. Yes, it seems to be the same 2 cores.

For some of the benchmark / testing that I'm doing involves compressing a folder with 5.57GB of material with winRAR. I'm not doing any video converting. I am running 3DMark (2013), but I'm not looping it (I've got the free version). I am just doing the full test one after the other...a minimum of 3 times.

Here is what I do. Each will be done a minimum of 3 times (sometimes more to get average / more consistent results)

  • 3DMark (2013)
  • Cinebench R15 (single-threaded and multi-threaded runs)
  • WinRAR compressions
  • Uniginve Valley (extreme Preset and Basic Preset)
  • SiSandra -- memory bandwidth
  • AIDA64 Memory benchmark
  • Bioshock Infinte Benchmark Utility (both Ultra settings and Lowest settings)

Originally posted by: Damric Sounds like you are TDP limited. It seems that on many ASUS and ASRock boards, even if you disable APM, there is a hidden granny feature that keeps the VRMs from overloading. Unfortunately it's too conservative. It's keeping me from achieving epic 5GHz+ clocks on my Athlon 760K on air as well. You can trick it using custom Turbo P states in AOD, but with very unbalanced frequencies. If I knew how to program a custom BIOS, I'm sure it could be disabled, like an LN2 mode.

It could very much be the VRM being too conservative. that's what I suspected in the first place.

 

Anyways, with the Core votlage bumped up to 1.4V, CPU-VDDA up to 2.6V, 4.8GHz seems to be stable now. I ran Prime95 for ~1.5 hours and everything was good. It didn't have any issues running WinRAR, Cinebench, and 3DMark a few times with those settings as well.

I'll leave it for now just to finish my little "member review" article. Afterwards, I'll tweak it a little bit....and maybe see if I can squeeze it to ~5GHz. I may need to grab that Swiftech H220 afterall.

 

If any member of the AMD forums is interested, here is the Review that I am working on (*sigh* it's been almost a whole month since I started...)

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/127576-fx-8350-am3-processor-review-phenom-ii-x6-1090t-versus-fx-8350-comparisons/



-------------------------

Phenom II X6 1090T @ 4.1GHz FX-8350 @ 4.8GHz // ASUS Crosshair V Formula 990FX // Sapphire Radeon HD Dual-X 7970 @ 1150/1500 // Thermaltake Frio w/ push-pull (using Antec Formula 7 Nano-Diamond + Cooler Master JetFlo fans) // 8GB (2 X 4GB) G.Skill RipJawsX 2133MHz  // Corsair TX850 850W // Corsair Force GT 120GB SSD (OS) // Kingston V200+ 120GB SSD // WD Caviar Black 1TB // Windows 7 Ult x64

 04/13/2014 09:33 AM
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Ed6698
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I would knock the CPU/NB down to 2400, I almost bet that will cure the cores dropping out.  FX chips are not the same as II. The CPU/NB and HT do not need to be the same as II. As far as the CPU/VDDA I only have mine at 2.543

Take a look at this info about the CPU/NB frequency

http://www.overclock.net/t/1418241/overclocking-my-nb-frequency

 

 

 

 



-------------------------

AMD 8350FX 4.5ghz//Asus Sabertooth 990FX R2//Zalman 9900Max//4x8gb Corsair Vengeance 1866//Corsair Force GT 90GB OS+240GB games ssd //WD 250gb Scorpio Black//PNY GTX680 sli//HP w2408h//Corsair hx1000//Antec 1200//Windows 8.1 x64

 05/20/2014 12:25 PM
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santaranger
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I had a similar problem. The VRMs was the key to the solution. I put a case fan against them and the core drops were gone. I glued some heat spreaders on them to be safe.

Never buying a board without VRM cooling again.

 06/07/2014 05:48 AM
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jimmyjjohn
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People, you don't owe us (or AMD) anything, you don't have to use AMD cards. If you don't like it and don't want to investigate and solve problems, just sell your cards and go back to the dark side. We really don't care, but don't want to listen to you complaining without the will to solve problems.

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