Topic Title: [SOLVED] Windows 7 64 Logon hang with Gigabyte Radeon HD 6450 - keywords: network storage, mup.sys, login, long, time
Topic Summary: I am having a weird logon hang whenever I load any kind of driver for my Radeon HD 6450
Created On: 09/12/2011 08:13 PM
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 09/12/2011 08:13 PM
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xdraconis
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SOLVED:

Ok, here's a head scratcher for you, cause I stil don't understand how this works and I've been working on computers for a long time.

Using the details posted here:
http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/140247-trace-windows-7-bootshutdownhibernatestandbyresume-issues/

I was able to determine that AMD / ATI was NOT causing any offending logon delays. The culprit's? csc.sys, mup.sys, and fltmgr.sys. These files have to do with network storage, and I did have two broken drive mappings (they only work when VPN is logged in). Removed the two broken drives, and viola!

I haven't the foggiest clue why or how installing the video drivers aggrivated these storage drivers. I can only imagine that since I also have an AMD storage controller, perhaps that is how they were linked (which is why I HATE COMBINED DRIVER INSTALLERS but that's another story)

Either way a simple script fixed the drive mappings, I just turn them on and off now, and I'm happy

 

 

 

 

 

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ORIGINAL POST:

I am having a weird logon hang whenever I load any kind of driver for my Radeon HD 6450. Without any drivers, the system boots in about 3 seconds, and then logs on in about another 3. When I load anything related to the video card drivers, the boot times are the same, but logon times jump to 30-40+ seconds, and then loads to a black screen with just the mouse, which lasts another 5 seconds or so. There is an unoticable difference in speed once the system is booted and logged in, if there is any at all.

Things I have tried:

CCC 11.8 - Hang
CCC 11.8 drivers with all non-Microsft services and boot items disabled - hang
OpenCL - hang
OpenCL with AMD App SDK service disabled and Microsoft drivers - Logon in 3 seconds
OpenCL with AMD App SDK service and Microsoft drivers - hang
OpenCL with AMD App SDK service disabled and AMD Drivers - hang

I have also tried disabling the onboard video in the BIOS, didn't make a difference.

My Specs:

Fresh install of Windows 7 x64 Ultimate

 300 Watt generic power supply (Could this cause anything? No problems after system is booted...)

AMD Phenom II X4 CPU



Edited: 09/15/2011 at 01:08 AM by xdraconis
 09/13/2011 07:02 PM
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tmk
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Read my story here http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=260&threadid=154555&highlight_key=y If you have a possibility to check your card with much powerfull PSU then do it but if you haven't, don't buy a new PSU. My friend has a 550W PSU, HD6950, 5 HDD's and DVDRW and he has no problem with his card. As you see, I have a 560W PSU, 4 HDD's, DVDRW and after I changed PSU, I still have a problem.
 09/13/2011 07:57 PM
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Gr33nGecko
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... and it's also well known that using a bad PSU from the start can damage a VGA card if you're unlucky, and no amount of swapping PSUs to Seasonics, Enermaxes, Corsairs or any other GOOD brands of PSU manufacturers will be able to rectify a card damaged by using a sub-par unit ...

You ran it with a terrible Chieftec unit which has a MAX COMBINED load of 560W MAX ! 440W ( 36A ) over 3 ( THREE ) 12v rails, rated unevenly at 12v1 - 14A MAX / 12v2 - 23A MAX / 12v3 - 15A MAX .. with 12v1 & 12v3 12v combined wattage of 300W ( 25A ) MAX ..

Can't blame things for going wrong with that unit, it's complete garbage, same OEM as CoolMax ( ultra garbage units ) .. and not a true 560W unit either .. ..

A HD6950 running on what 550W unit exactly ?



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 09/13/2011 11:42 PM
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xdraconis
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Ok, now I'm really stumped. It only happends when using an HDMI cable. DVI and VGA logon in seconds, even if the DVI is the same HDMI cable in a DVI-HDMI convertor.

 

Any Idea's? (Haven't found a more powerfull PSU yet... will keep looking)

Also I'm about to pull the card out and see if I have the same problem on the onboard card. With both cards installed I do have the problem.

 09/14/2011 02:03 AM
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xdraconis
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Ok, scratch that, it just did it with a DVI connection. I cannot seem to nail down something that will cause this. I beleive it may be related to the AMD / ATI sound drivers. If anyone has any more ideas please let me know.

I did manage to get it to load a few times (without sound) with the 6450 in full resolution with Aero, so at this point I doubt it is the PSU.

Does anyone know how I can further inspect the logon / login sequence? Right now I am pretty much working blind, modifying setting by setting to see if it makes a difference.

 09/14/2011 10:55 AM
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tmk
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Originally posted by: Gr33nGecko  

... and it's also well known that using a bad PSU from the start can damage a VGA card if you're unlucky, and no amount of swapping PSUs to Seasonics, Enermaxes, Corsairs or any other GOOD brands of PSU manufacturers will be able to rectify a card damaged by using a sub-par unit ...

You ran it with a terrible Chieftec unit which has a MAX COMBINED load of 560W MAX ! 440W ( 36A ) over 3 ( THREE ) 12v rails, rated unevenly at 12v1 - 14A MAX / 12v2 - 23A MAX / 12v3 - 15A MAX .. with 12v1 & 12v3 12v combined wattage of 300W ( 25A ) MAX ..

Can't blame things for going wrong with that unit, it's complete garbage, same OEM as CoolMax ( ultra garbage units ) .. and not a true 560W unit either .. ..

I've tried my old PSU with one HDD, DVDRW and no other cards except HD6970. I did a fresh win7 install, with no success. I've never heard about damaged vga card by fully operational but "low-wattaged" PSU in my life (I'm experienced user and I work with computers since '80s). If it works in safe mode or normal mode as "standard vga card", it should work with drivers installed, am I right? I'll probably RMA it this week

Edited: 09/14/2011 at 11:02 AM by tmk
 09/14/2011 12:17 PM
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Gr33nGecko
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I've been working with PCs since my first ZX80, way back in .. 1980 ! I've seen hundreds of cards damaged by inadequate PSUs at work ( I own a PC/IT repair business ) .. you're missing factors like stuggling to get required juice, noise, ripple, spiking etc from underpowered units .. it can and does happen and in the worst case scenario, you brick your card ..

No, not really ..



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AM3 965BE C3 / 4GB Corsair XMS3 2000Mhz / GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 / Corsair H70 & 2 CM Excaliburs / x2 HD3870 ATOMIC Edition / Corsair 90GB Force 3 SSD / Momentus XT 250Gb Hybrid HDD / x3 Samsung F3 1Tb / Sony AD-7700 DVD-RW / Auzen X-Mystique / Enermax INFINITI 650W / Lian Li PC-7FNWB / Logitech X-530 / Logitech Kboard & MX620 Laser Mouse / Epson RX685 / DELL U2312HM 23" IPS TFT / MY RIG HERE
 09/14/2011 02:24 PM
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tmk
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OK but tell me why is this card working without any problems in... Linux?

 09/14/2011 03:01 PM
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xdraconis
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Yes. Underpowering your video card can damage it. Proven and known fact, I've seen it before myself (I also own a computer repair business).

 

 

At this point I am pretty sure our issues are unrelated. You have completely different symptoms, and I can run Witcher 2 for hours with the GPU overclocked to the max without any problems.

 

 

If I was using typical equipment, I might replace the PSU, but the system I'm using is a Micro-ITX tower and requires very little power:

~95W CPU + ~4W SDD + ~20W DDR3-RAM + ~20W motherboard = ~161W left over for video card and other devices.

Based on the tests conducted here:
http://www.hwcompare.com/10295/radeon-hd-5450-vs-radeon-hd-6450-oem-1gb/

and here:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_6450/20.html 

The 1GB Radeon HD 6450 uses less than 40 Watts of power, and I have the 512MB edition. 

So, even if I high-ball all those numbers, I am still left with ~100W of power for the 1 TB laptop hard drive that is coming today, and USB devices.

I did my homework before buying this stuff, power is not the issue with my system.

 09/14/2011 03:08 PM
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tmk
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What do you think about my card and linux? Do you think my card is really damaged? I don't know what to think about it. If it fully works in linux then it should work in windows too.
 09/14/2011 03:29 PM
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xdraconis
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Linux can use many very different drivers, I think you should post these findings along with whether you using the AMD / ATI drivers or the community supported drivers back in the thread you started.

Since our issues do not seem to be related, splitting your information across two threads will make it harder for people to help, because they can only see half of what you already know.

 

 

Back on topic, does anyone know of any ways to further inspect this problem? I am about to leave for work, but I will return to trying to figure it out tonight.

 09/15/2011 01:09 AM
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xdraconis
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[SOLVED]

 09/15/2011 10:08 AM
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Gr33nGecko
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Originally posted by: xdraconis [SOLVED]

 

 

State secret as to what resolved things ?



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AM3 965BE C3 / 4GB Corsair XMS3 2000Mhz / GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 / Corsair H70 & 2 CM Excaliburs / x2 HD3870 ATOMIC Edition / Corsair 90GB Force 3 SSD / Momentus XT 250Gb Hybrid HDD / x3 Samsung F3 1Tb / Sony AD-7700 DVD-RW / Auzen X-Mystique / Enermax INFINITI 650W / Lian Li PC-7FNWB / Logitech X-530 / Logitech Kboard & MX620 Laser Mouse / Epson RX685 / DELL U2312HM 23" IPS TFT / MY RIG HERE
 09/15/2011 02:38 PM
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xdraconis
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Sorry, probably should have mentioned that I updated my original post.

 

SOLVED:

 

Ok, here's a head scratcher for you, cause I stil don't understand how this works and I've been working on computers for a long time.

 

Using the details posted here: http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/140247-trace-windows-7-bootshutdownhibernatestandbyresume-issues/

 

I was able to determine that AMD / ATI was NOT causing any offending logon delays. The culprit's? csc.sys, mup.sys, and fltmgr.sys. These files have to do with network storage, and I did have two broken drive mappings (they only work when VPN is logged in). Removed the two broken drives, and viola!

 

I haven't the foggiest clue why or how installing the video drivers aggrivated these storage drivers. I can only imagine that since I also have an AMD storage controller, perhaps that is how they were linked (which is why I HATE COMBINED DRIVER INSTALLERS but that's another story)

 

Either way a simple script fixed the drive mappings, I just turn them on and off now, and I'm happy

 

 01/07/2012 04:36 AM
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mohamedazher
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I have the exact same problem and i have been searching for days looking for a solution! 

Take a look at the log trace below. csc.sys, mup.sys, and fltmgr.sys are what seem to be causing the logon delay post welcome screen.

I have i5 2500k with HD5850 GFX and gigabyte z68 mobo. Could you mind sharing how exatcly did you solve the hard drive mapping problem?

Trace log

 01/07/2012 10:29 AM
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xdraconis
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Yup, yours looks just about the same as mine was. I ended up removing the broken drive mappings perminantly.... it didn't seem to do it when the drives were properly connected, and I only needed them when I connected to a VPN.

Now, when I connect to my VPN, I have a script that re-maps the drives for me, and deletes them when I log off (A simple functionality of OpenVPN, nothing I created, except for a couple lines of text).

You could also manually map and unmap the drives each time.

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