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Topic Title: Hybrid CrossfireX A10-5800K and TWO 6670
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Created On: 10/24/2012 03:28 PM
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 10/24/2012 03:28 PM
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gnappoman
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Hello,

my question is simple:

If I put togheter two Gigabyte GV-R667D3-1GI (ati 6670) and an A10-5800k on an AsRock FM2A75 Pro4 , would it be possible to have a Hybrid CrossfireX configuration using all the three GPUs?

Many thanks

F

 11/01/2012 03:39 PM
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fortkentdad
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I want to know the answer to this one.

 

I have a new rig with an A10-5800K and an ASUS HD6670.  I brought home my third monitor yesterday and tried to hook it up using AMD Catalyst (just downloaded it from AMD a week ago so it should be up-to-date).  I'm running Windows 8 Pro, have 32 GB of DDR3 RAM on a ASUS F2-A85-M Pro motherboard, currenly running in dual graphic mode. 

ALAS I learn that my graphic card needs a DisplayPort - and my brand new ASUS HD6670 does not have such a port.  My motherboard does have a display port and I did try hooking up my displays to the motherboard ports but that did not work (blank screens).  I've three monitors (all LG's but differing sizes) and have them hooked up to the three ports on the back of my video card.  I can enable any two of the monitors, but not all three.   

Reading more of the AMD Eyefinity pages I see that I can only get the third display to operate by using a displayport.  Which my graphic card does not have.

I waited a week too long to return my HD 6670 to Memory Express for an exchange for a card that does have a display port.  SO my option is to live with two displays and give up on the idea of a three display array OR as Gnappoman asks, can I buy another HD 6670 which does have a display port like the Sapphire Radeon HD 6670 and crossfire it with my ASUS HD 6670 (assuming these two difference HD 6670's will crossfire) and the A10-APU.  

Fortunately I can return the third monitor as I just bought it yesterday. 

If I knew then what I know now I would have bought the Sapphire in the first place, hind sight is 20/20. 

Now I want to know, like the original poster asked; Is there any performance advantage to crossfiring two 6670's with the A10 APU over the performance of a A10 APU dual-graphic (crossfired) with one 6670?

As I understand it the Dual Graphics feature is basically crossfiring the built in graphic card in the APU which is roughly equivalent to a 6670 with the discrete 6670 card.  IF adding basically a third 6670 will enhance the performance of the machine then that is an option I would consider.  

SO to reitterate the OP's question, when I have an A10 APU + ASUS HD6670 (with 2 GB of DDR3) + a Sapphire HD6670 (with 1 GB DDR3) will it WORK? and will that give me more graphic performance than just the A10+ ASUS HD6670?

I know I probably would have been further ahead to buy a better discrete card in the first place - but if I cannot return the HD6670 then that bit of advice is not too useful. 

At this point my option is to three way crossfire two slightly differing HD6670 + the A10 APU or limit my display to the two displays allowed under Windows. 

 

FKD



-------------------------

FKD


A10-5800K ~ ASUS F2 A85-M Pro ~ 2x ASUS HD 6670 ~ 32 GB RAM ~ 128 GB SSD ~ Three LG Monitors (20-24-20) ~ Windows 8 Pro



 


 



Edited: 11/01/2012 at 03:48 PM by fortkentdad
 11/01/2012 04:49 PM
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black_zion
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The bigger question is, why would you worry about that when you can just get a single more powerful card and not have any of the drawbacks of multiple GPU configurations?

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 11/01/2012 04:53 PM
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Canis-X
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^.....and the opponent is knocked down and a KO issued after the 10-count....ding....ding....ding!!!! 

...but in all seriousness, this would be the more logical option of the two.



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Please don't PM me with questions, instead create a thread so that everyone can assist and benefit from the knowledge provided. Thanks in advance!

 11/01/2012 05:50 PM
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fortkentdad
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Originally posted by: black_zion The bigger question is, why would you worry about that when you can just get a single more powerful card and not have any of the drawbacks of multiple GPU configurations?

Well because I already bought the HD 6670 and it is past the 7 day return for exchange window with Memory Express so I'm stuck with it, and since I already have it, why would I not use it? 

In hind sight it would have been better to buy a $160 descrete card instead of two $80 cards and if I could exchange the HD 6670 I would.  

AND as for "the bother" once installed is there any bother. I expect that once the crossfiring/dual graphicing is set up in Catalyst you would not need to change anything unless you upgraded your videocard or monitors.  Or am I wrong to think that? 

So I do have that option, just take that brand new $85 card and put it back in it's box and sit it on the shelf and start over and buy the a new card that may be better than the two cards crossfired.  BUT I hate to waste that $85.00.  

SO if spending $68 + shipping (best price I've seen on the Sapphire 6670) means my system will be jim dandy - well that is a better option in my mind than spending $160 on say a HD7770 with displayports.   

Seems the $68 one does not have a display port either - thought it did. Best price I can get on a display port equipped 6670 is $85 for either the ASUS or Sapphire cards running 1 GB DDR5.  

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010666/amd-announces-trinity-apus-superb-graphics-improved-cpu.html .

In that PC World review of the dual graphics capacity of the A10 they write: "The integrated GPU will run in concert with a discrete AMD Radeon HD 6670 graphics card using AMD's CrossFire X performance, which should nearly double graphics performance. For roughly $80, the system would offer graphics performance approaching AMD's midrange Radeon HD 7850 discrete graphics card in many applications" 

So I'm back to the question, what kind of performance would come of crossfiring two 6670's and the built in 6670 on the APU, of course if it can be done at all.  

I have seen the review that shows that in some applications there is little or no benefit Batman is cited as an example, but that same study shows that in other games/apps (e.g. Dirt3) there is distinict advantage. http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/46157-amd-a10-5800k-dual-graphics-evaluation/  

 

Hindsight is 20/20 and had I known then what I know now I might have gone for that AMD 8 core processor and a 7000 series graphics card - but I was going for a less expensive option. The A10 chip cost less than $100 and the 6670 card was $85.00  the FX8350 was over $200 + $160 for the card, so $360 vs $165 - that was a big difference, and with the A10 promising great dual graphic performance with an $85 card I was sold.  IF I hand done my homework carefully enough I would have seen that the ASUS HD6670 didn't have the necessary display port and all would be right in my world.  SO now I'm looking for a fix for my oversight.  AND if these three 6670 engines can be crossfired into one with good graphic performance I would be happy.  

 

 



-------------------------

FKD


A10-5800K ~ ASUS F2 A85-M Pro ~ 2x ASUS HD 6670 ~ 32 GB RAM ~ 128 GB SSD ~ Three LG Monitors (20-24-20) ~ Windows 8 Pro



 


 



Edited: 11/01/2012 at 10:24 PM by fortkentdad
 11/01/2012 10:55 PM
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fortkentdad
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I think I found the answer to the original OP's question, and sadly it appears that the answer is no.  One 6670 can be connected through "dual graphics" to the APU, and two 6670's can be crossfired (no bridge needed), but you can't "triple-fire" all three at once.  Sad but true. 

 

The operation of AMD CrossFireX™ technology in dual mode requires a second AMD Radeon™ HD 6670 graphics card and an AMD CrossFireX Ready motherboard. Note that AMD CrossFireX technology in greater than dual mode is not supported with AMD Radeon™ HD 6670 graphics products.

http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/amd-radeon-hd-6000/hd-6670/Pages/amd-radeon-hd-6670-overview.aspx#3 

 



-------------------------

FKD


A10-5800K ~ ASUS F2 A85-M Pro ~ 2x ASUS HD 6670 ~ 32 GB RAM ~ 128 GB SSD ~ Three LG Monitors (20-24-20) ~ Windows 8 Pro



 


 

 11/01/2012 11:26 PM
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fortkentdad
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPL6B3dmnKk&feature=related 

This is a YouTube Review of an AMD A8 APU configured with one 6670 in dual graphic mode, and then the reviewer compares this to two 6670's in crossfire mode.  

He's using "3DMark" to benchmark, the results are most interesting: 


A8 APU alone:  4396

+++++++++++++++++++

6670 alone: 4965

++++++++++++++++++++++

Dual Graphic mode: 7390  (nice)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Two 6670 in crossfire mode (no bridge) 8266

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And just for fun, overclock the 6670 pair to 8874. 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now If I did not already own a 6670 I'm not sure I'd go out and buy two 6670's.  AND if I owned a 6670 with a display port I'm probably would not think that an increase from 7390 to 8266 would be worth the cost ($68).  

BUT since I own a 6670 without a display port, what I'm now facing is the following choices: 

A) take my third monitor back to the shop for a refund (can still do this for a couple more days).  Cost is $100 back into my wallet and live with my 24" as my main display and my 18" off to the side as my sidebar display.   

B) Disconect my 6670 and run three displays on my A10 alone (it does have a display port). 

C) buy a displayport enabled 6670 (e.g. Sapphire Ultimate $85 +11 s/h - 15 rebate = $81, at http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102950 and crossfire it with the HD 6670 I now have - assuming I can crossfire a 6670 sporting 2GB of DDR3 with a 6670 sporting 1 GB of DDR5.  <- anyone know if that will be a problem?? 

Upside, I should get better performance from these two 6670's (8266 vs 4965 from the Youtube above) and I get to keep my new LED 20" monitor and have my triple "immersion" video display system for my virtural cockpit.  OF course I'll have to upgrade my other two monitors to LED in due time....  

I'm trying to find out if I'm limited to a HD 6670 in this crossfire or if I can use a little better card, and if I do, is there any benefit?  That information is not easy to come by. ANYONE know the answer to this? 

OR else I could do what I read in various forums.

D) or I could buy a better graphics card, paying $125 -$175 and up, and up and up??? and put my brand new (well almost new) ASUS 2 GB HD 6670 on eBay and sell it for a fraction of what I paid for it.    The economics of "bang for my buck" is what I need to sort out.  IF the better card is only $20 or so dollars more than a HD 6670 with displayport then maybe I'm just as far ahead to go option D) but I have no idea how much more bang I'm going to get by going up a few dollars.  I'll do a little more research on the bang for my videocard buck economics and post my results. 

 

 

ADVICE wanted.  What would you do?

(Don't say you would not have gotten into this predicament in the first place - that woulda-coulda-didn't talk doesn't help) 

 



-------------------------

FKD


A10-5800K ~ ASUS F2 A85-M Pro ~ 2x ASUS HD 6670 ~ 32 GB RAM ~ 128 GB SSD ~ Three LG Monitors (20-24-20) ~ Windows 8 Pro



 


 



Edited: 11/01/2012 at 11:44 PM by fortkentdad
 11/05/2012 12:19 PM
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gnappoman
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can you have this sort of "triple crossfire"

or not?

Why can't AMD just answer to this question?

 

BTW

the annoying "buy a more expensive card" is not a technical reply

 11/05/2012 04:11 PM
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fortkentdad
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Originally posted by: gnappoman can you have this sort of "triple crossfire" or not?   

Apparently not.  As I noted above, on the AMD website  they say that 6670's do not support CrossFireX beyond "dual mode".  My take on that statement is you can CrossFire two HD 6670's or a HD 6670 and a A Series APU that accepts the 6670 but not a three way (ie greater than dual) crossfire. 

"Note that AMD CrossFireX technology in greater than dual mode is not supported with AMD Radeon™ HD 6670 graphics products."  from

http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/amd-radeon-hd-6000/hd-6670/Pages/amd-radeon-hd-6670-overview.aspx#3  

That is my interpretation or their words. 

Have you seen the Youtube video on this topic, well close enough he's actually using a A8 and HD 6570 in his testing but I think it would be the same effect with an A10 & HD6670's

view this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPL6B3dmnKk&feature=related

 

 Why can't AMD just answer to this question?  

 

That would be nice as your question is not answered directly. Wouldn't it be nice if AMD supplied a tech or two to provide answers in their forum' would that be too much to ask? (Of course maybe they did but that was one of the positions that was laid off last month  http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/18/amd-results-idUSL1E8LIF1520121018

BTW

 

 

the annoying "buy a more expensive card" is not a technical reply 

 

In my case I first bought the older HD6670 2GB DDR3 version because I learned that when in dual graphics mode with the APU there is no advantage of DDR5 video memory as the APU is using DDR3 and will drag the video card's memory down to DDR3 level.  

SO my thinking was 2GB DDR2 is better than one GB of DDR5, so that is the card I bought, but I didn't do enough homework.  UNfortunately the DDR3 variation is an older model and does not have a displayport, hence it cannot support three monitors using EyeFinity (see http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/amd-eyefinity-technology/how-to/Pages/set-up.aspx. ) So now that I have three monitors the only option for me was to get a videocard with a displayport.  I could have either bought a more expensive one and just use one distinct card (some replies I got on other forums suggested this would be the best option), or get a second HD6670 with displayport and then crossfire these two cards.   

I've ordered a second HD6670 and this weekend I'll spend some time and test the system to see how it works with just the A10, the A10 & one HD6670 in dual graphics mode (what I'm using now), the system with the HD6670 but dual graphics disabled so the GPU would only be the HD6670 by itself, and then I'll test the system with the two HD6670's crossfired.  I hope to get better results than that fella did on Youtube with his A8 & HD6570's, time will tell. 

But I'm with you on the original question, it would have been nice if I could have still used the APU's graphics capacity and used all three GPU for even better performance but as I understand these systems (and remember I'm a novice system builder) my conclusion is that you cannot go for the Triple Decker GPU performance. 

Clear as mud?  

 



-------------------------

FKD


A10-5800K ~ ASUS F2 A85-M Pro ~ 2x ASUS HD 6670 ~ 32 GB RAM ~ 128 GB SSD ~ Three LG Monitors (20-24-20) ~ Windows 8 Pro



 


 

 11/05/2012 04:17 PM
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fortkentdad
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BTW I did buy a second LG 2040T LED monitor, so now I have three LG's in a row, two 20" ones off to each side and a 24" one in the middle.  ONCE I recieve my new HD6670 with displayport and am able to light up all three monitors at once I'll post some pictures and do some testing to benchmark the performance. 

 



-------------------------

FKD


A10-5800K ~ ASUS F2 A85-M Pro ~ 2x ASUS HD 6670 ~ 32 GB RAM ~ 128 GB SSD ~ Three LG Monitors (20-24-20) ~ Windows 8 Pro



 


 

 11/05/2012 04:58 PM
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Mime
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Originally posted by: fortkentdad

But I'm with you on the original question, it would have been nice if I could have still used the APU's graphics capacity and used all three GPU for even better performance but as I understand these systems (and remember I'm a novice system builder) my conclusion is that you cannot go for the Triple Decker GPU performance.

Honestly, you're not missing much there.  That's not a knock against the A8's integrated GPU, but just the way this would work out.  Lines have to be drawn somewhere when building all these things, because something which tries to be great at everything ends up not doing very well at anything.

It's not at all a given that your machine will become twice as fast in graphics by adding a second video card.  That's the ideal case(ideal if we ignore superlinear scaling, so we will) which is possible if the stars align, everyone gathers around, and someone starts waving a dead chicken while the test is running, but most of the time it isn't going to happen.  With multi-GPU setups being the exception rather than the rule, adding a third or fourth GPU often turns into a game of diminishing returns.

Mixing hardware of differing capabilities(in this case, the IGP and your 6670) only makes things worse, because the faster of those two chips will often have to wait for the slower one.



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Edited: 11/05/2012 at 05:15 PM by Mime
 11/05/2012 05:06 PM
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stumped
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Originally posted by: gnappoman can you have this sort of "triple crossfire"

or not?

Why can't AMD just answer to this question?

 

BTW

the annoying "buy a more expensive card" is not a technical reply

Hey...this is a peer-to-peer forum. That is a BIG word for user to user. Get it? This is not AMD answering you, just users. Get it? Send a e-mail to AMD if you want their opinion.

Good Luck and have a nice day



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 * A clear conscience is usually a sign of bad memory *

 11/05/2012 05:40 PM
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fortkentdad
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Hey...this is a peer-to-peer forum. That is a BIG word for user to user. Get it? This is not AMD answering you, just users. Get it? Send a e-mail to AMD if you want their opinion.

 

Good Luck and have a nice day

 

I did not know that this was a peer-to-peer Forum.  I found it when seeking answers on the AMD website and for some strange reason thought AMD somehow sponsored this forum.  

 

 



-------------------------

FKD


A10-5800K ~ ASUS F2 A85-M Pro ~ 2x ASUS HD 6670 ~ 32 GB RAM ~ 128 GB SSD ~ Three LG Monitors (20-24-20) ~ Windows 8 Pro



 


 

 11/05/2012 05:43 PM
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stumped
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Originally posted by: fortkentdad

 

Hey...this is a peer-to-peer forum. That is a BIG word for user to user. Get it? This is not AMD answering you, just users. Get it? Send a e-mail to AMD if you want their opinion.

 

Good Luck and have a nice day

 

I did not know that this was a peer-to-peer Forum.  I found it when seeking answers on the AMD website and for some strange reason thought AMD somehow sponsored this forum.  

 

 

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=444&threadid=161716&enterthread=y



-------------------------

Intel I7 960 @ 3.87ghz *Intel DX58SO *HIS HD6970 2gb *Corsair TX650M *2x4gb Corsair XMS3 *WD Black 1TB *Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit ***Asus N71Jq laptop *Intel I7 720QM Processor *Mobility Radeon HD5730 1gb *8gb Ram *Windows 7 64bit ** Toshiba P75-A7200 * Intel I7-4700MQ * Windows 8.1 64bit


 


 * A clear conscience is usually a sign of bad memory *

 11/05/2012 06:56 PM
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fortkentdad
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Originally posted by: Mime
Originally posted by: fortkentdad

 

But I'm with you on the original question, it would have been nice if I could have still used the APU's graphics capacity and used all three GPU for even better performance but as I understand these systems (and remember I'm a novice system builder) my conclusion is that you cannot go for the Triple Decker GPU performance.

 

Honestly, you're not missing much there.  That's not a knock against the A8's integrated GPU, but just the way this would work out.  Lines have to be drawn somewhere when building all these things, because something which tries to be great at everything ends up not doing very well at anything.

 

It's not at all a given that your machine will become twice as fast in graphics by adding a second video card.  That's the ideal case(ideal if we ignore superlinear scaling, so we will) which is possible if the stars align, everyone gathers around, and someone starts waving a dead chicken while the test is running, but most of the time it isn't going to happen.  With multi-GPU setups being the exception rather than the rule, adding a third or fourth GPU often turns into a game of diminishing returns.

 

Mixing hardware of differing capabilities(in this case, the IGP and your 6670) only makes things worse, because the faster of those two chips will often have to wait for the slower one.

 

I'm not expecting it to be twice as fast.  But I'm hoping it will be at least as fast as a HD7770 would have been.  

 

I went to http://www.3dmark.com/search and compared one HD7770 to two HD6670's on an A10 system and I'm hoping my results will be comparible because it looks like it is reasonable to expect the performance to be in that ball park.  The range of scores for two HD6670's was greater (1600-3232) than the range for one HD7770 (3200-3400) so I guess it depends on how fast you wave that rubber chicken.  (To be fair only 12 system were available with an A10 sporting a HD7770, while 49 systems reported on the 2x HD6670's and only two scored under 2200 and most (45) scored over 3000.   And I think some of those reporting two HD6670's may be counting their APU as one of the HD6670's???

 

My problem was a solution to my mistake of buying a HD6670 without a displayport.  Sure I could have spent $150 for a HD7770 and used it alone and just not used the HD6670, but I'm hoping that by spending the $89 on the HD6670 and crossfiring them I'll get results close to what one HD7770 - which in hindsight would have been a little cheaper ($160 vs $180). And I'll have more v-RAM at a total of 3GB, that should count for something - right??

Now to go and get that rubber chicken.....  



-------------------------

FKD


A10-5800K ~ ASUS F2 A85-M Pro ~ 2x ASUS HD 6670 ~ 32 GB RAM ~ 128 GB SSD ~ Three LG Monitors (20-24-20) ~ Windows 8 Pro



 


 



Edited: 11/05/2012 at 07:02 PM by fortkentdad
 11/05/2012 06:59 PM
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Mime
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Yeah you're probably good for that, and since you've already got the hardware you might as well use it.  Distributed computing certainly has it's uses, and using what you've already got is the whole point behind the whole hybrid SLI/crossfire thing in the first place.  It just doesn't always work quite as well as the sales and marketing staff would like you to think it does. 



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 11/07/2012 06:54 PM
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gnappoman
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I've ordered a second HD6670 and this weekend I'll spend some time and test the system to see how it works with just the A10, the A10 & one HD6670 in dual graphics mode (what I'm using now), the system with the HD6670 but dual graphics disabled so the GPU would only be the HD6670 by itself, and then I'll test the system with the two HD6670's crossfired.  

 

 

 

 

hope u'll try a triple configuration too!

Apparently not.  As I noted above, on the AMD website  they say that 6670's do not support CrossFireX beyond "dual mode".  My take on that statement is you can CrossFire two HD 6670's or a HD 6670 and a A Series APU that accepts the 6670 but not a three way (ie greater than dual) crossfire.

somebody did it

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/4641019

 

Originally posted by: stumped
Originally posted by: gnappoman can you have this sort of "triple crossfire"

or not?

Why can't AMD just answer to this question?

 

BTW

the annoying "buy a more expensive card" is not a technical reply

Hey...this is a peer-to-peer forum. That is a BIG word for user to user. Get it? This is not AMD answering you, just users. Get it? Send a e-mail to AMD if you want their opinion.

Good Luck and have a nice day

U misunderstood what I meant:

AMD should be clear in writing which configurations work with their products, especially about the new ones (hybrid crossfire), because there is a bit of confusion on this.

Lastly please consider that this is the new unique global forum for AMD products, and domain name is forums.amd.com , hence it wouldn't amaze me if someone professional had a look around sometimes..

Have a nice day u too;-)

 



Edited: 11/09/2012 at 07:52 PM by gnappoman
 11/11/2012 12:31 PM
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fortkentdad
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Well I can report that I was able to CrossFireX the two HD 6670's through catalyst. 

screen shot of CrossFireX

 

I also did some benchmarking - I'm a complete novice at benchmarking so I'm not real clear on how good these results are but for those who know I can share the following - notice how Novabench reports my graphics card - maybe my APU is contributing to my graphics output? 

 

NovaBench Score: 821

 


11/10/2012 6:53:58 PM
Microsoft Windows 8 Pro
AMD A105800K APU with Radeon HD Graphics @ 4439 MHz
Graphics Card: AMD Radeon HD 7660D + 6670 Dual Graphics

32204 MB System RAM (Score: 255)
- RAM Speed: 7381 MB/s

CPU Tests (Score: 388)
- Floating Point Operations/Second: 125433444
- Integer Operations/Second: 281899908
- MD5 Hashes Generated/Second: 797503

Graphics Tests (Score: 163)
- 3D Frames Per Second: 492

Hardware Tests (Score: 15)
- Primary Partition Capacity: 1863 GB
- Drive Write Speed: 69 MB/s  

 

And when I tested my FPS on full screen, 4800x900 with one display across three monitors I got 176 FPS.  

But with Cinebench I scored a 41.65 fps.  

When I use FRAPS and run a X-Plane 10, with high graphic setting at 4800-900 I see FPS between 20 & 60.  

 

 

 

 

 



-------------------------

FKD


A10-5800K ~ ASUS F2 A85-M Pro ~ 2x ASUS HD 6670 ~ 32 GB RAM ~ 128 GB SSD ~ Three LG Monitors (20-24-20) ~ Windows 8 Pro



 


 

 11/11/2012 05:39 PM
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gnappoman
Peon

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/24/2012

Wait a second:

Graphics Card: AMD Radeon HD 7660D + 6670 Dual Graphics

So u did succeed in configuring a three way crossfire.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/overclocking-tweaking-benchmarking/57802-novabench-score-my-fkds-new-a10-rig.html

Would you post a 3dmark benchmark, like this?

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/4641019

 12/02/2012 04:29 AM
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gnappoman
Peon

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/24/2012

upp

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