Topic Title: HD5970 with Catalyst 14.6 Beta and still no Crossfire
Topic Summary: HD5970 Dual GPU Crossfire disabled
Created On: 05/30/2014 09:26 AM
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 05/30/2014 09:26 AM
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Nemroth2000
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so...here is my problem (and sorry for my english):

i am using a HD5970 (Dual GPU) and since catalyst 14.xx there is no crossfire available. nowhere. i found no option and no way to enable crossfire. GPU-Z and catalyst are saying hardware/crossfire is disabled.

i used every uninstall-utility (amd cleaner, uud, uninstall with catalyst, driver sweeper ect), i read every single tip in the internet...nothing. all other drivers and bios are up-2-date.

for now i am using the 13.8 beta, because it is the latest driver i found supporting crossfire for the HD 5970.

system:

Intel E8400

HD5970 (Dual GPU)

Win 7_64 bit

4gb Ram

 

help needed...



Edited: 05/30/2014 at 12:09 PM by Nemroth2000
 06/01/2014 05:04 AM
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N3on
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I've had the same problem for ages, I found a solution in passing that worked for me:

 

Do you have any other pci slot devices? If so, remove them and leave just your graphics cards and try and see if it fixes it.

 

A little info based on my hardware situation:

My motherboard has 5 PCI/E slots, graphics cards are positioned in slots PCIE2 and PCIE4 which run at 3.0 and 2.0 x16 by default, BUT if something is plugged into PCIE1, PCI3, PCI5 the PCIE4 slot drops to x2. It appears latest ATI drivers do not support x16 and x2 crossfiring.

 06/02/2014 02:03 PM
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Nemroth2000
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unfortunately i have only 1 pci-e slot.

 06/04/2014 09:04 PM
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Kwano7
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Hello Nemroth2000,

I think that I have the same problem as you.

I have a HD6990 on a Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H and I am not able to put the crossfire on for any version of catalyst superior than 13.11 beta 7.

On GPU-z, the crossfire is marked "Disabled" and in CCC, the second adapter is marked "Disabled Adapter". 

In addition to this problem, I have noticed on GPU-z that my second card's bus (on the same PCB) is blocked at Pci-e x1.

Do you have a bus speed limitation on your second card (on the same PCB) like me?

 06/05/2014 03:43 AM
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backFireX64
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@Nemroth2000 and @Kwano7 :

just a thought but, with the drivers that do work for you, if you open catalyst control center -> information -> hardware -> maximum bus setting, is it showing the same value for both cards (x16 for an x16 pcie slot) ?

 

My HD 6990 used to show x16 for both gpus, now it shows x16 and x4 with 14.6 beta1. I have tried earlier drivers and some report x2 and x2 !!! Some shows my linked adapter disabled as well.

 

Either there is an unresolved bug for HD5000 and HD6000 users, or there is a hardware failure on the internal chip (the plx one i think) that controls the internal crossfire and communication between the two gpus (on the pcb).

In either case some catalyst drivers seem to have problems with crossfirex, but also depends on each user pc configuration. It seems to be a dual-graphics card related problem.

I highly suggest to report this to amd support.



-------------------------

gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev.2, core i7 975 3.9ghz (stock voltage), windows 8.1 64-bit, corsair 12gb DDR3 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 RAM, xfx HD 5970 + gigabyte HD 5970 (stock clocks), coolermaster ultimate 900w PSU.
amd catalyst 14.7 RC3 aug12



Edited: 06/05/2014 at 03:58 AM by backFireX64
 06/05/2014 03:54 AM
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backFireX64
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By the way, HWiNFO64 (sensors tab) reports 5000 gbps pcie link speed (x16) for both my gpus under load (ulps disabled), even though ccc and gpuz reports x16 and x4 !!!

Try yours and see if that's the case.



-------------------------

gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev.2, core i7 975 3.9ghz (stock voltage), windows 8.1 64-bit, corsair 12gb DDR3 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 RAM, xfx HD 5970 + gigabyte HD 5970 (stock clocks), coolermaster ultimate 900w PSU.
amd catalyst 14.7 RC3 aug12

 06/05/2014 08:44 AM
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Kwano7
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Hello backFireX64,

I just tested on HWinfo64 also, it does not report my second card,  I have only GPU #0 and it's reported as pci-express x16, which is normal.
But the second card (the second card on the same PCB) is not reported.
May be, because the crossfire is off.
On Gpu-Z, the second card is reported as "PCI-E 2.0 x16 @ x1 2.0", even after disabling the ulps.
Now, I use 14.6 beta with crossfire disabled unfortunately.
I have tested the second GPU performance on GPU Caps Viewer with a opencl performance test, and I confirm my second gpu is limited by the bus speed in comparaison of the first gpu.
On the CCC, for all the drivers i have tested (crossfire or not), it's reported "PCI Express 2.0 x1" as maximum speed of the bus of the second card.
I think that you might have the same problem as me but the limitation of the bus speed of your second card is less important than mine.
In fact, the bus bandwidth of your second card (Pci-express x4) is 4 times more important than that of my second card (Pci-express x1) because of the limitation.
At Pci Express 2.0, each lane delivers 500 MB/s, so the bus of my second card have only a bandwidth of 500 MB/s (sniff.. ) instead of your 2 GB/s. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express)
In addition to that, I think that the performance loss depends on the need of the application in term of bus bandwidth, pci-express 2.0 x4 might have be generally sufficient...?
If the load of your second gpu is more important than that of the first one, you might have the same limitation.
But you have said: "about the limitation of the  bus, i have a lot of demanding games with 90-99% utilization on both gpus SILMUTANEOUSLY (tested and monitored with msi afterburner osd)", so I can not be sure.
But I noticed that you was able to enable the crossfire with catalyst 14.x despite of this problem.
May be, i was wrong, because i thought that the problem of enabling crossfire with the recent catalyst drivers was at least partially due to this kind of bus speed limitation.

(sorry for my bad english)

 06/05/2014 09:41 AM
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backFireX64
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@Kwano7:

Hello to you too mate and thanks for reading my posts. Your english is fine by the way. Your logic and thinking seems to be rather good too, i might add, which i think is a more important value to a person.

1. Install a driver that crossfirex works (linked adapter enabled in ccc) For clean install (i am sure you already know that but anyways) see:

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=454&threadid=172812&enterthread=y

 

2. Now, if you do not mind, open HWiNFO64 one more time. After finishing examining system config. it will display 2 windows, one large and one smaller that is on top and looks like cpuz and gpuz got married. This little window also shows me only cpu#0 and x16 link speed. Close the little window and you are left with the bigger one. Then find the sensors tab, the one with the big yellow circle with the thunder symbol inside it and press it. It will start analyzing and, when finished, go to the GPU [#0] and the GPU [#1] lines (does the second gpu show for you ?) and find the PCie Link Speed line for each gpu. It should say 5.000 Gbps for the master GPU and 2.500 Gbps for the slave GPU in all 4 columns (min, max etc.), if ULPS is enabled (if the second gpu is in power save mode).

3.  Now, open gpuz and start render test in fullscreen/ crossfirex - press the ? symbol beside the pci bus information (just to be sure that ulps is disabled and keeps that way for a while).

Stop the test, close gpuz and immediately close the hwinfo64 sensors tab window and reopen it so that it refreshes.

You should then see both gpus at 5.000 Gbps.

 

Repeat these steps with a driver that sees your 2nd gpu disabled (crossfire not working) and make a note of the results.

Are they similar ?

 

I know the whole process is a bit of a drag, but it is the only way to make sure of some facts before contacting amd

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

EDIT 1:    Quoting,  "May be, i was wrong, because i thought that the problem of enabling crossfire with the recent catalyst drivers was at least partially due to this kind of bus speed limitation."

 

It may still be cause of recent catalyst drivers.

Don't exclude that possibility yet.

I would not be shocked if i found out that amd has something to do about it in a way that we are kinda forced to upgrade our (already old anyway) hardware.

Remember how the monthly crossfirex application profiles were silently dropped ? Just me thinking out loud here ...

 

EDIT 2:     install the latest drivers of your motherboard, especially the ones about pci controllers and devices. The ones that are posted in your mobo's manufacturer site may not be the latest. You can use a third party software to search for updated drivers. Have a system restore point ready for all cases or a back up image !

 



-------------------------

gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev.2, core i7 975 3.9ghz (stock voltage), windows 8.1 64-bit, corsair 12gb DDR3 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 RAM, xfx HD 5970 + gigabyte HD 5970 (stock clocks), coolermaster ultimate 900w PSU.
amd catalyst 14.7 RC3 aug12



Edited: 06/05/2014 at 10:46 AM by backFireX64
 06/05/2014 10:41 AM
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backFireX64
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Take a look at this link:

 

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/sapphire_hd6990/2.htm

 

See the image below the line that says:

"THE PLX Bridge chip looks to be the same one used on the AMD HD 5970 and is again carrying the AMD logo on it"

 

There is a possibility that this chip is the culprit, if it malfunctions (due to long-term heat or low quality components perhaps ?).

Unfortunately i do not have any engineering knowledge and searching through the internet hasn't helped me yet.

 

If anyone on this forum knows anything more about this chip, i urge you to give some feedback.

It would be really helpful.



-------------------------

gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev.2, core i7 975 3.9ghz (stock voltage), windows 8.1 64-bit, corsair 12gb DDR3 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 RAM, xfx HD 5970 + gigabyte HD 5970 (stock clocks), coolermaster ultimate 900w PSU.
amd catalyst 14.7 RC3 aug12

 06/05/2014 12:31 PM
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backFireX64
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quoting: 

"I have tested the second GPU performance on GPU Caps Viewer with a opencl performance test, and I confirm my second gpu is limited by the bus speed in comparaison of the first gpu."

Didn't know of this.

Is your OS windows 7 ? Because i run windows 8.1 and i cannot seem to be able to test both gpus, only GPU 1: AMD Radeon HD 6900 Series shows.

Is the program/ site (ozone3d.net) trusted ? It created OCL6908T9.dll in my temp folder when i started ocl bencmark which my anti-virus found as a Packed.Win32.Morphine.a malware. If you think/know it is a false positive, ignore my comment. If not, be cautious.



-------------------------

gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev.2, core i7 975 3.9ghz (stock voltage), windows 8.1 64-bit, corsair 12gb DDR3 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 RAM, xfx HD 5970 + gigabyte HD 5970 (stock clocks), coolermaster ultimate 900w PSU.
amd catalyst 14.7 RC3 aug12

 06/06/2014 04:19 AM
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Kwano7
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Hello backFireX64,

My motherboard's drivers are up to date, I verified again on the Gigabyte's website.
I reinstalled the catalyst 13.11 beta7 driver for the tests, it's the latest driver with which I have crossfire on.
I retried HWiNFO64 as you said, it showed me 5.000 Gbps as the "Pcie speed link" for the both gpus (with ulps off):
HWINFO_CAT13.11b7
With the catalyst 14.6 beta1, I had the same results (with crossfire off unfortunately ).
HWINFO_CAT14.6b1

On GPU-z, the bus speed of the first gpu is marked as "PCI-E 2.0 x16 @ x16 2.0" whereas the second one is marked as "PCI-E 2.0 x16 @ x1 2.0", whatever the driver used (crossfire or not).
GPUZ_N1_CAT13.11b7
GPUZ_N2_CAT13.11b7
GPUZ_N1_CAT14.6b1
GPUZ_N2_CAT14.6b1

But I noticed an interesting thing, with the catalyst 13.11 beta 7 driver installed, on the "Information > Hardware" tab of the CCC, my maximum speed bus for both card is reported as "Pci-express 2.0 x2" like on the screenshot.
CCC_MAT_CAT13.11b7
With the catalyst 14.6 beta1, I have the same bus speed as those are reported on Gpu-Z.
CCC_MAT_CAT14.6b1

\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_

I'm on Windows 7 x64 bits.
For Gpu Caps Viewer, you can download the latest version from the link below.
http://www.geeks3d.com/20140312/gpu-caps-viewer-1-20-1-released/#download

I go on the OpenCL tab, and I select the "AMD Accelerated Parallel Processing" platform.
After, you can choose the gpu on which you want to launch the OpenCL demo, in the block named "OpenCL demos, Device index....".
I choose "CL GPU - 1M Particles" for demo, because this demo requires almost nothing for playing the graphics.
Whatever the chosen device for OpenCL and the selected demo, I think the first gpu is in charge of rendering the graphics, that's why I choose one which seems have the less impact.
GPU_CAPS_Viewer
I got that:
For the first GPU:
GPU_CAPS_Viewer_GPU1
GPU_CAPS_Viewer_GPUZ_GPU1
For the second one:
GPU_CAPS_Viewer_GPU2
GPU_CAPS_Viewer_GPUZ_GPU2
I notice a difference of performance between the 2 gpus, as regards the framerate.


I launched the benchmark from Batman Arkham Origins (with the crossfire enabled, so with the catalyst 13.11b7) and I monitored the charge of the gpus on gpuz. The first gpu's charge was less important than that of the second one, 10 percents less on average.
I took a screenshot of the graphs on gpuz.
GPUZ_BATMAN_ORIGINS_BENCH

When the problem of the limitation of the pcie bus has appeared, I remember that I have noticed a loss of framerate in some old games (at that time).
I have not been playing to some old games for a long time and I have updated my drivers a lot of times, I have thought it was just a driver problem and I have not been taking care of that until that I realized on gpu-z that my pcie bus was blocked at x1, one year ago.
But today, I'm pretty sure that it's a card problem, I have been testing a lot of things in order to resolve that problem but nothing. Maybe, it's due to a cheap chip as you said, it would not surprise me.
However, with the recent drivers (catalyst 14.x), apparently, I have not crossfire anymore also, lol .
I think really that the problem of the bus speed of my card can be the reason why the crossfire is impossible to be enabled with the recent drivers.

But it must be still confirmed...



Edited: 06/06/2014 at 04:50 AM by Kwano7
 06/06/2014 09:37 AM
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backFireX64
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@Kwano7:        Bonjour, comment vas-tu?

 

Thank you very much for your time, effort and your great response.

You make pros look bad. No, seriously !

Are you sure english is not your native language ?

 

Well, i've read your post thoroughly with great interest and i find that we are in a very similar situation. Let's take it one by one:

 

1. First of all, i noticed your temperature on both gpus is very high, 85-90 degrees C during stress/ load. I assume that you have left the fan on automatic. DON'T .

Assuming again that your HD6990 is a reference card with stock cooler, it is extremely important to manually set the fan (in ccc) higher than the stock 30%, before you load a demanding (for gpu raw power) game. My own preference is 50-70% constant fan rpm.

Now, i know it's gonna be loud, but you should keep the average temperature between 70-78 with 99% usage on both gpus and prolong the lifespan of your card (and that includes all pcb components). In addition, you will make sure that the gpus do not throttle themselves in high levels of heat so that they give you all the "juice" you need in-game.

Vrm heat levels are good already, no worries there.

 

2. Second of all, i see you use the default switch position bios, running at 830 mhz and 1250 for both gpus. Is your card under warranty that does not cover you if you manually move the switch to the second position - overclock bios ?

If that is the case and you do not want to take any risks, then leave it be.

If, however, your warranty period has expired or it covers you in both bios settings, then you MUST (all users that i know do) flip the switch to the second bios (we always first power off pc). That will allow you to run the gpus in new defaults of 880 and 1250 respectively (vcore voltage rises automatically to 1.175 v).

With a fan setting of approx. 70% constant usage, you shall be again in mid 70s on gpu temperature.

So i strongly advice you to run your HD6990 the way it's meant to be played (no pun intended).

I personally have run my card at 930 and 1350 (manually overclocked further) with stock voltages and stock cooler since i bought it years ago only in intense/ demanding games just to have that extra 4 frames average that could make all the difference between a stuttering 54-58 fps or a smooth 60 fps in-game (v-sync and usually ultra settings, aa=off or x2 msaa or fxaa, 1080p).

I now have installed a custom cooler (re-applied fresh good thermal paste as well) with two 120mm fans that cools on air both gpus, vram and regulators (cannot advertize it here, google it and you will know- the "accelerated" one), and run at 950 core, 1375 vram (stock voltage) completely stable. At 100% fan usage, it is virtually silent and keeps my card cooled at load max 75 degrees C on the most demanding titles. It is a must.

 

Sorry for the off-topic but it was crucial.

 

3.  I quote:     

"But I noticed an interesting thing, with the catalyst 13.11 beta 7 driver installed, on the "Information > Hardware" tab of the CCC, my maximum speed bus for both card is reported as "Pci-express 2.0 x2""

Exactly same for me. Both gpus x2 in ccc and a few drivers that i tested ( including beta and 13.12 whql) Weird ?

 

4. It is generally a good advice for anyone that a 15 min break every 1 hour from the pc monitor is really important, especially late at night and when sleepy.

So, with that in mind, i rested, read your post and opened gpu caps again and, voila !!!

Then i run the same "CL GPU - 1M Particles" test for myself and it gives 5-6 frames for both gpus, on catalyst 14.6 beta1, as expected because crossfirex works and ccc reports x16 and x4. Therefore, you are right to point the fact that you seem to have a more severe bus limitation (x1 2.0) than i (x4 2.0) and that, is very unfortunate indeed.     

If you can find a driver suite that gives you similar maximum bus setting values to mine ( that is x16 and x4), then you can retest to see if performance is improved.

Something that worries me is the fact that i actually noticed x16 and x8 with 14.4 whql, i then reinstalled the same drivers and got x16-x4 and then i clean reinstalled windows 8.1 and left with these x16-x4, now only in 14.4 and 14.6 beta1 (and some 1-2 year old - outdated drivers that i really don't want to be stuck with).

 

 

5. I managed to test an older HD5970 (dual-gpu card) that functions really well till today with the latest whql and beta drivers and ccc shown x16 - x16.

This would normally discourage, disappoint and frustrate me but i am not convinced it is some sort of a hardware failure we are experiencing. Will wait for next drivers.

Don't get your hopes down yet.

 

6.  You seem a rather experienced user, but i have to ask just to be sure:

You do clean uninstall and install drivers (in safe mode), don't you ? Also check device manager for hidden display adapters and driver software versions that lurk around. There are many leftovers after a conventional (express ?) uninstall through control panel and i also noticed an AMD folder in Program Files that contains a folder (amdkmpfd) with three files (.cbz, .ibz and .sbz) and is not deleted even with some third party uninstallers. This AMD folder supposedly is responsible for the "PCI Root Bus Lower Filter" as mentioned here:

Topic Title: What are Amdkmpfd files? Can I delete the folder there are in?

Does this have to do with anything ? Don't know.

But i do not recall this folder to be there in past drivers.

Could be wrong though.

 

7.  I am waiting to get my hands on Batman Arkham Origins and do some benchmarking as i am writing this post, and will get back to you.

 

 

Lastly, i must thank you again Kwano7  for your excellent feedback and urge you to hang around this forum as we all need and appreciate users like yourself.

 

This may be a serious problem with dual-graphics cards and i plead anyone with the technical knowledge, experience and desire to help to step up and give any precious information and feedback regarding this topic.

 

Thanks in advance.

 



-------------------------

gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev.2, core i7 975 3.9ghz (stock voltage), windows 8.1 64-bit, corsair 12gb DDR3 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 RAM, xfx HD 5970 + gigabyte HD 5970 (stock clocks), coolermaster ultimate 900w PSU.
amd catalyst 14.7 RC3 aug12



Edited: 06/06/2014 at 09:52 AM by backFireX64
 06/06/2014 10:35 AM
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backFireX64
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Originally posted by: N3on I've had the same problem for ages, I found a solution in passing that worked for me:

 

 

 

Do you have any other pci slot devices? If so, remove them and leave just your graphics cards and try and see if it fixes it.

 

 

 

A little info based on my hardware situation:

 

My motherboard has 5 PCI/E slots, graphics cards are positioned in slots PCIE2 and PCIE4 which run at 3.0 and 2.0 x16 by default, BUT if something is plugged into PCIE1, PCI3, PCI5 the PCIE4 slot drops to x2. It appears latest ATI drivers do not support x16 and x2 crossfiring.

 

 

 

If what N3on posted is true for others as well, it may be a mobo-card-drivers combination problem that is affecting internal crossfirex chip and in turn affects the pcie link speed. Just a hypothesis.

 

My thanks for N3on, Nemroth2000 and Roivas (see the other thread) as well for their initial feedback, bringing this issue in the forum into life. 

Keep them posts coming !



-------------------------

gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev.2, core i7 975 3.9ghz (stock voltage), windows 8.1 64-bit, corsair 12gb DDR3 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 RAM, xfx HD 5970 + gigabyte HD 5970 (stock clocks), coolermaster ultimate 900w PSU.
amd catalyst 14.7 RC3 aug12



Edited: 06/06/2014 at 10:45 AM by backFireX64
 06/06/2014 10:59 AM
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backFireX64
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 Just tested Crysis 3 on 1080p, fxaa, all ultra except object detail high (on amd catalyst 14.6 beta1):

 

Both gpu 99% utilization constantly.

Both gpu 65 - 73 degrees Celsium temperature (950 mhz) depending on what the gpu was rendering (for 30 min).

Vram 2261 mb approx. on gpu 1 (1400 mhz).

FPS 35-60 variable with v-sync (gave normal stuttering when fps dipped}

 

All measurements taken in-game with latest version of msi afterburner (v3.00).

 

 

It really does not feel as smooth as it has been in the past and i don't mean the inevitable 1-2 fps (if any) loss, cause other, newer games are being prioritized and optimized in latest drivers.



-------------------------

gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev.2, core i7 975 3.9ghz (stock voltage), windows 8.1 64-bit, corsair 12gb DDR3 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 RAM, xfx HD 5970 + gigabyte HD 5970 (stock clocks), coolermaster ultimate 900w PSU.
amd catalyst 14.7 RC3 aug12

 06/06/2014 08:09 PM
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backFireX64
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@Kwano7:

 

I have just tried the benchmark from Batman Arkham Origins myself and monitored the performance in-game with afterburner.

All settings maxed/1080p/v-sync=on, except aa=fxaa high, motion blur=off and physx=off

Both gpu 55-60% average (70% max seen only once during the single player campaign after playing for an hour) utilization constantly.

Both gpu 58-68 degrees Celsium temperature (950 mhz) depending on what the gpu was rendering during the benchmark.

Vram 1450-1600 mb approx. on gpu 1 (1400 mhz).

Min fps 38

Max fps 58

 

There does not seem to be that much of a loss with these results at x16-x4. Crossfirex seems to be working as it should, but considering both gpus are not utilized to the fullest (only 60% average), even when they are rendering demanding scenes that lowers my framerate, i think there is not good enough scaling with the current pre defined crossfirex profile and/or drivers.

 

Taking the above into consideration, it's safe to say that you need to test and find a driver that does not limit you like you have mentioned.

If that is not feasible, you can always try a full clean install of windows as i did and see what happens (if you don't mind the effort).

Time will tell. Maybe my 2nd gpu wil go x1 over time as well.

I'll keep testing and trying and post any significant discoveries i find.

 

EDIT:    by the way, have you tried changing pcie slots ? What link speed do you see ? I see x8-x4 on my x8 slot.

Are your psu rail voltages (+3v, +5v, +12v)  ok ?

Is your motherboard giving you any problems whatsoever ?



-------------------------

gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev.2, core i7 975 3.9ghz (stock voltage), windows 8.1 64-bit, corsair 12gb DDR3 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 RAM, xfx HD 5970 + gigabyte HD 5970 (stock clocks), coolermaster ultimate 900w PSU.
amd catalyst 14.7 RC3 aug12



Edited: 06/06/2014 at 08:19 PM by backFireX64
 06/08/2014 04:29 AM
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Kwano7
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Salut backFireX64,

Merci. Je vais bien, et toi? Tout va bien? ^^

Firstly, thanks you very much for your help and your advices.
I have already learnt a lot thanks to you, since I am on this forum.
I will try to respond to you, point by point.

1. Yes, I have not changed these parameters. You're right, my card warms too much, I will change that.

2. My card is not under warranty anymore, but because of the heat, I did not want to rise the consumption of the card and because the card becomes too loud on full charge.
Also for the moment, I'm not ready to buy another card, so I am trying to prolong its lifespan but apparently, my HD6990 is taking another decision for me.
Most of time, I'm on linux. I'm on windows for gaming or if I really have not the choice. Today, I'm rather an occasional gamer.
But when I decided to play, I want to play "the way it's meant to be played".
I don't like the marketing politics of Nvidia but I hope I will not be taken by the "green side of the force" after all of that, lol.

3. Yes, I confirm, that looks strange. The reported values in the CCC must be wrong. I think that gpu-z is more reliable than the CCC. When I tested the performance of my gpus on GPU Caps Viewer with the catalysts 13.11b7 or 14.6b1, I got the same results: 5-6 frames for the first gpu and 3-4 frames for the second one, whatever the reported values by the CCC for the Pcie bus speed.
You should not have the same values as me in your CCC (x2 for both cards), this is really crazy. In fact, none of us should have these values in the CCC.

4.Unfortunately, whatever I tried, I got the same values in gpu-z (gpu1 pcie bus speed x16 - gpu2 pcie bus speed x1).
--------------------------------------------
I've tried a lot of things in order to resolve the problem of the Pci-express bus blocked at x1, but nothing has worked:
- disabling ulps,
- changing driver version,
- testing with an old backup of my system (made with acronis true image) dating from september 2012, a long time before the problem appeared (I had the catalyst 12.8 at this time),
- testing on a fresh install of Windows 8.1 (I should have written: Installing Windows 8.1 x64 and the catalyst driver on another HDD for testing),
- cleaning the port and the pins, reseating the card,
- switching Pci-express ports,
- clearing cmos,
- my motherboard have a dual bios, I enabled the backup bios (F5 version, instead of F14) for testing, but nothing.
---------------------------------------------

5. I admit that after having tested all these things, I am more and more convinced that it could be a hardware failure.
But if there are any drivers which can change the reported values on gpu-z and the performance loss I noticed about the gpu2, I will take it.
We will see...

6. Usually, I use the amd cleanup utility or/and DDU in safe mode to delete every driver traces.
Unfortunately, I'm not able to install the drivers in safe mode, it makes me an error.
But I disable my antivirus and my firewall protections until the reboot. 
The last time, I read the page you linked and I tested with Driver Fusion for seeing if anything changed, but I noticed nothing.
I have tested the catalyst 14.6b1 with two of my old backups (after having saved the C: volume, I have overwritten it), one dating from september 2012 (at this time, I had just reinstalled my system), the other one from february 2013. I have tested it also on a fresh install of windows 8.1 x64. In all these cases, with the last catalyst driver, not only I had the pcie bus speed problem (if it's a hardware failure, that's normal), but the crossfire was also disabled and impossible to enable (almost each time, I have updated my motherboard chipset drivers).

7. I am sorry, I should have specified my settings about the benchmark of Batman Arkham Origins.
I ran the game with the same settings as you, except that I put the vsync=off, in order to let the gpus speak.
I don't know if it's really important but I created also a profile in the CCC for Batman Arkham Origins, I limited the tesselation to 2x, because HD6000 series cards are known for their bad performance in tesselation compared to HD7000 series ones.
With those settings and with the catalyst 13.11b7 (crossfire on), I've gotten: min 38, max 131 and average 93.
My complete config is:
Windows 7 x64bits SP1
Core i7 3770K @4.4Ghz
Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H (v.1.0)
4 x 4GB DDR3 Gskills 1866Mhz 9-10-9-28T CR:2T
Pcie x16 -> HD6990
Pcie x1  -> Asus Xonar D2X

I have two others Pci-express x16 ports (one runs at x8, the other one at x4).
I have tested the graphic card on the one which runs at x8 but nothing, I've tested also withdrawing the sound card, same things.
I don't remember well what gpu-z has showed, it seems to me that it was the same values (x16-x1). I will get a try again, when I have time.

If we try to understand how crossfirex works, the two gpus have to be synchronized in order to work together. That's why the less powerful card limits the other one.
It reminds me a manga: Trunks and Sangoten when they merged to form Gotrunks, lol. They have to be the same level. (Souvenirs, souvenirs...)
That means, if the pcie bus speed of my second gpu is limited to x1, even if the first gpu works well alone, the two work together as if their pcie bus speed are limited to x1 in terms of performance.
So if the pcie bus speed of your second gpu is limited to x4, everything should run as if the two cards (in the same PCB) had the same limitation when they work in crossfire.
Concerning the HD6990, the two "cards" are on the same PCB, so they share the same physical port. I don't know well how they share it.
May be, each card take the half of the available lanes (one lane for the gpu1, the other one for the gpu2, one lane for the gpu1...) or one after the other, they take all the lanes (in my opinion, it's the more possible case because it's the easiest to implement).
There must be a chip which acts like a router between the two cards, sharing the bandwidth between them. It's the chip which you was talking about: "THE PLX Bridge chip".
May be, it becomes stupid with the time?
Why? I don't know...
What I don't understand is that there are people on the net who have crossfirex of single cards and who have met the same problem.
Even with one card alone: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/353093-33-hd7950-help.
That makes me crazy.

If the crossfire worked with the latest drivers, I would be less confused but no. Sniff...

I have found an old article about the impact of the pci-express bus speed on framerate in some old games (in french, sorry, but graphics are enough explicit):
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/836-3/crysis-warhead-farcry-2-metro-2033.html



Edited: 06/08/2014 at 05:03 AM by Kwano7
 06/08/2014 07:23 AM
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backFireX64
Elite

Posts: 1044
Joined: 11/14/2010

@Kwano7:

Tout est bien, merci.
Actuellement en attente pour voir les Roland Garros 2014 finale masculine à la télé.

(i hope that google translate works well, cause, unfortunately, my french is near to non-existance)




Thanks for all the info. That's a very good feedback right there.

I tottaly agree with you on everything you' ve said and share similar arguments and conclusions.


Maybe i could try reflashing bios for both my gpus, but i do not think it's that relevant or worth the risk anyway. I don't recommend you to try it either, at least not until we ran out of all options.

I will try a different mobo/ psu when given the chance and i suggest that you do the same if you can. Then compare the results.


Will post if i find anything interesting.

 

EDIT 1:      by the way, i believe you cannot install drivers in safe mode, only remove leftover files and entries in the registry because windows runs with only basic drivers and services. That's why it gives you an error.


EDIT 2:       if it is strictly a hardware problem, shouldn't you be able to have crossfirex enabled and working (even at x1 speed) like me, with the latest drivers ?

Are there other factors interfering ?
Are we missing something here ?
Probably.


EDIT 3:        i should also clarify that both amd and nvidia drivers and gpus are more or less on a par these days. That includes the bad and the good, as every monopoly and oligopoly market functions all over the world.

My advice is to not be too eager to change sides, but absolutely consider and demand better support and quality from vendors and manufacturers.

And dual-gpu solutions have too much issues for me to consider buying again in the future. It is just not worth the trouble.


-------------------------

gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev.2, core i7 975 3.9ghz (stock voltage), windows 8.1 64-bit, corsair 12gb DDR3 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 RAM, xfx HD 5970 + gigabyte HD 5970 (stock clocks), coolermaster ultimate 900w PSU.
amd catalyst 14.7 RC3 aug12



Edited: 06/08/2014 at 08:14 AM by backFireX64
 06/08/2014 09:33 AM
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backFireX64
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@Kwano7:

 

 

Have you by any chance experimented or messed with windows timers, specifically HPET (high precision event timer) ?

 

Example:

http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1075781-tweak-enable-hpet-in-bios-and-os-for-better-performance-and-fps/

 

I only noticed the pcie problem after i forced hpet (in bios 64bit mode and inside windows) as the only timer for windows to use.

It could be purely coincidental though. I don't think i could actually affect gpu hardware or driver performance and behaviour by forcing hpet, but you never know (it can be reverted anyway).

 

"Tweaking" hpet seems to have only a placebo effect and i would not recommend it. It didn't help me with anything. Microsoft refers to it as a debugging procedure anyway (look for useplatformclock [ yes | no ] in http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff542202%28v=vs.85%29.aspx).



-------------------------

gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev.2, core i7 975 3.9ghz (stock voltage), windows 8.1 64-bit, corsair 12gb DDR3 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 RAM, xfx HD 5970 + gigabyte HD 5970 (stock clocks), coolermaster ultimate 900w PSU.
amd catalyst 14.7 RC3 aug12

 06/08/2014 09:59 AM
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backFireX64
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If i open device manager -> display adapters -> amd radeon hd 6900 series -> properties -> details -> select  from the drop down list of "Property":

 

1. For the 1st GPU: "PCI current link width"=00000010

                               "PCI max link width"=00000010

 

2. For the 2nd GPU: "PCI current link width"=00000004

                                 "PCI max link width"=00000010

 

 

Is this normal for a dual-gpu card in a pcie 2.0 x16 slot ?

Current link width for second display adapter is reported to be lower than the 1st.

Are these the same values for you Kwano7 (or everyone else for that matter) ?

 

Please post and let everyone know.

 

 



-------------------------

gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev.2, core i7 975 3.9ghz (stock voltage), windows 8.1 64-bit, corsair 12gb DDR3 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 RAM, xfx HD 5970 + gigabyte HD 5970 (stock clocks), coolermaster ultimate 900w PSU.
amd catalyst 14.7 RC3 aug12

 06/08/2014 11:34 PM
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Kwano7
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Hello backFireX64,

I'm happy if everything is okay.
Google translation helps me too when I am lost in english, so it is not so bad if you understand me well (I hope, lol).
I am not interested so much in tennis, except if some national sportsmen won (like a lot of people, lol).

I have thought also of testing on another motherboard, but the only other one that I had with pci-express ports is dead.
That would have allowed me to clarify the problem.

I believe that I saw somebody who has flashed his second card with the bios which has been extracted from his first card, in order to force the crossfire to be available.
I should find the forum again but I don't recommend it either, it does not seem to me to be the good solution.
In addition to that, it seems to me that the HD6990 has a dual bios as well, I have thought that enabling the OC bios could have resolved the problem but I was wrong.

Unfortunately, with the catalyst's versions from 13.11b7 (non included) to 14.6b1, the crossfire option is not available at all. That is normal for a bi-gpu card but the crossfire should have be enabled by default.
I will try on a fresh install of windows 7 on another support, because there are some things I did not understand.

I know you are right about amd and nvidia, but when I bought my HD6990, I was hesitating between it and the GTX590, however with these problems, it reminds me the choice I have made more often.
But it may be a figment of my imagination, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence (or the force).
Recently, I admit that I don't understand the amd driver logic.

I have read some things about HPET but I have not tried to enable or disable it.
I have read some people who was saying that enabling it can help to get some performance improvements but I have read also some people who was saying the opposite.
So I did not touch it but I looked in my cmos setup and it seems to me at least that it is enabled for the mobo.
But for the OS, I don't know.
I will try to disable it in the bios to test but I am not convinced too because I never modified it.
----------------
I have already taken a look at this, but the last time I have noticed nothing.
In fact, there is no variable with these names, even in french. That would have questioned me.
But thanks to you, finally, I noticed some variables with strange names in the list.
Properties variables
The values you got are in hexadecimal.
"PCI max link width" is normal, for the both cards: "00000010" => 16 in decimal.
"PCI current link width" for your first card is normal: "00000010" => 16 in decimal.
But "PCI current link width" for your second card is: "00000004" => 4 in decimal, the bus speed limitation.

Regarding the values that I have to find, I search for the corresponding variable names on my system, I found this:
"PCI current link width" --> "{3ab22e31-8264-4b4e-9af5-a8d2d8e33e62}{10}"
"PCI max link width" --> "{3ab22e31-8264-4b4e-9af5-a8d2d8e33e62}{12}"
So, with this in mind:
For my first card:
"PCI current link width"=00000010 (x16)
"PCI max link width"=00000010 (x16)
For my second card:
"PCI current link width"=00000001 (x1, sniff.. )
"PCI max link width"=00000010 (x16)

PCI current link width
PCI max link width

What I don't understand is why I have variables with so different names than yours (despite we are on different versions of windows) and above all, why these names look like windows register key names.
I tried to find, in the register, a key named {3ab22e31-8264-4b4e-9af5-a8d2d8e33e62} but nothing.
That would be too easy. ^^
I really will test on a clean installation, it's too strange.



Edited: 06/08/2014 at 11:44 PM by Kwano7
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