Topic Title: HD5970 with Catalyst 14.6 Beta and still no Crossfire
Topic Summary: HD5970 Dual GPU Crossfire disabled
Created On: 05/30/2014 09:26 AM
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 06/09/2014 08:46 AM
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backFireX64
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@Kwano 7:

 

 

There is a good program for backing-up gpu bios, reflashing, manually force custom clocks, etc:

RBE - Radeon BIOS editor

 

I would only recommend this for gpu bios extraction and back-up.

 

The important thing to remember when it comes to our choices is that we have learned from our mistakes. With that in mind, a dual-gpu setup seems like a poor choice nowadays. An R9 290X single gpu for example would trash my old HD6990 in both performance and reliability. That includes crossfirex problems because if i wanted to install a second R9 290X i could still benefit from crossfirex but, at the same time it would be really easy to just disable one adapter when i needed to.

There are lots of game benchmarks on the internet from reliable sources that show both amd and nvidia card solutions have similar real-life performance. In addition, there are a lot of hardware and driver problems with each card and each game with both sides as well. Add in price policies along with that.

 

I am dangerously going off topic here, so i'll stop. I think you've got my point.

 

You are right about disabling v-sync when benchmarking.

My Batman Arkham Origins Benchmark final results without v-sync are the following:

min = 48

max = 185

avg = 100

 

I tend to use v-sync even in bencmarks to see how close are avg fps to the desirable 60fps mark, if there is a lot of stuttering, if the frames dip a lot to lower levels etc.

 

As you see, a safe overclock of 950mhz and 1400mhz respectively that i currently use can increase both  minimum fps and max fps. I never overvolt. You do need a good cooler/ heatsink though to have stability and these overclock numbers you see maybe different with other hd6900 chips. One has to test and figure the max or near max overclock.

 

I agree with your argument about how crossfirex works and is affected by pcie bus limitation.

 

Quote:   "What I don't understand is that there are people on the net who have crossfirex of single cards and who have met the same problem"

Yea, it sure is weird.

Maybe it is mobo related ? Don't really think so.

Is there another component on a gpu card pcb that is affecting the way it communicates with the motherboard and malfunctions over time and heat exposure ? Circuits going bad over time ? Don't really know.

I will search and post if i find anything.



-------------------------

gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev.2, core i7 975 3.9ghz (stock voltage), windows 8.1 64-bit, corsair 12gb DDR3 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 RAM, sapphire HD 6990 (stock clocks), coolermaster ultimate 900w PSU.
amd catalyst 14.6 RC2 june23

 06/09/2014 12:46 PM
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backFireX64
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Whoever has the issue as described in the topic , please send a detailed report to the follow link:

 

AMD Customer Care - Raise Support Ticket 

(step 2)

 

 

It only takes 5min of your time to fill the form and let the technicians know about our frustration (politely of course).

 

 

Thank you in advance.



-------------------------

gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev.2, core i7 975 3.9ghz (stock voltage), windows 8.1 64-bit, corsair 12gb DDR3 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 RAM, sapphire HD 6990 (stock clocks), coolermaster ultimate 900w PSU.
amd catalyst 14.6 RC2 june23

 06/12/2014 03:03 PM
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Kwano7
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Hello backFireX64,

Sorry for the late answer.

Earlier in the week, I installed on an old hdd, Windows 7 x64 Sp1 with the latest updates and the latest drivers of my motherboard, with nothing else which could interfer.
But I got the same results with the catalyst 14.6b1 (=> no crossfire).
It appears as well that the strange variable names in properties might be normal in windows 7, lol, but for the values of "PCI current link width" (x16/x1 for me and x16/x4 for you), I don't think so.
I tested again with the catalyst 13.11b9.4, still no crossfire, I noticed again strange pcie bus speeds in CCC (x2 for the both gpus O_o).
AMD_CCC-13.11b9.4
With the 13.11b7, the crossfire was back (but still with the bus speed limitation (x16/x1 in gpu-z) like with the other drivers) and with strange values in CCC (x2 for both gpus O_o).
AMD_CCC-13.11b7
I remembered also that on xubuntu 12.04 x64, when I had installed the proprietary drivers which were proposed, the catalyst 13.something, the crossfire was enabled.
But when I had installed the catalyst 14.4, the crossfire was disabled.

So, I think the crossfire problem is a driver problem but not only.

I installed the graphic card in the pcie slot running at x8, gpuz showed me x16/x1, CCC x8/x1, still no crossfire, same bus speed limitation (catalyst 14.6).
AMD_CCC_x8

-------------------

I have disassembled my card and changed the thermal paste for my old Artic Silver 5, I've won at least 10 degrees with the first bios settings.
Thank for the good idea, I should have done this thing since a long time.
But I am going to wait until the problem is resolved, to obtain some overclockings.

I agree with you about bi-gpu cards, I don't think that the technology is ready. We should have to wait for bi-gpu cards are more than two cards linked on the same PCB.

I have watched the Radeon BIOS editor but I saw nothing about the pcie bus speed when I loaded the bios in.

In HWiNFO64, I have noticed in the main windows:
HW64_1
HW64_2
HW64_3
HW64_4
I don't sure about what it means but it seems strange too.
There is something I don't understand in what HW64 marked.
If I understood well, it's the cpu i7 which manage the memory canals and the pci-express ports (mobo).
Northbridge and southbridge don't exist really anymore like in the oldest motherboards (Intel has privatized the mobo, lol).

I think you are right, there could be some cpu/mobo/catalyst conflicts.
I will wait for new drivers but it's so frustrating.

I found another post with a lot of people having problems with crossfire and the latest catalyst drivers:
http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=475&threadid=171407&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

For the bus speed limitation problem, it's an obscure problem.
I should test the card on another motherboard to be sure.
It could be related also to the way that pci-express buses are managed, but why this problem appeared? I don't know, it does not make sense.

 06/12/2014 03:54 PM
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backFireX64
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@Kwano7:

 

Hello mate.

 

Yes, i've seen it before. Good find.

The HWiNFO64 screens are exactly as mine with the difference of the 2nd adapter reporting x4.

Yes, the cpu is ultimately responsible for the management and distribution of lanes. But the internal distribution is handled by the PLX chip which acts as a crossfire bridge between the gpus. Did i get that right ?

I have already tried different chipset drivers as well; nothing seems to work.

I have verified that all my pci and pcie slots work at the specified speed and width, especially the first pcie 2.0 x16 blue slot by testing another dual card (hd 5970 shows x16-x16).

I really don't think it's an internal sensor going bad as well.

We both have tried different driver versions and the results are quite weird.

 

I agree with your reasoning in general, but i will focus my attention, and i quote, to this:

 

"there could be some cpu/mobo/catalyst conflicts"

 

I would understand the conflicts affecting gpu performance or functionality in a 8-year old system like mine, but it is unacceptable that people with newer systems have that kind of problems.

 

I am currently unable to test my card on another stable-good working system, so if you can test this i would be much oblidged.

 

Thanks for the link (i've seen that before but forgotten about) and thank you for the valuable feedback.

 

 

p.s      Have you sent a report to AMD yet ? If you want to test all options first, ok But, please, do so as soon as you can.

Thanks again.

 

 

EDIT 1:   I now wish i was a skillful programmer and/ or tech engineer. I would really like to mess with that PLX chip if only i could cope with the consequences.

 

EDIT 2:    Keep that temperatures down man. Now and ever. Trust me, you won't ever regret it.



-------------------------

gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev.2, core i7 975 3.9ghz (stock voltage), windows 8.1 64-bit, corsair 12gb DDR3 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 RAM, sapphire HD 6990 (stock clocks), coolermaster ultimate 900w PSU.
amd catalyst 14.6 RC2 june23



Edited: 06/12/2014 at 04:03 PM by backFireX64
 06/12/2014 04:11 PM
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backFireX64
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  It appears as well that the strange variable names in properties might be normal in windows 7, lol, but for the values of "PCI current link width" (x16/x1 for me and x16/x4 for you), I don't think so. 

 

I only get that values in device manager when i have no driver software installed and only on my 2nd display adapter (reported as "unknown device", i then uninstall the device, reinstall it and comes as "video controller"). My 1st gpu is reported as "Microsoft Basic Display Adapter" and gives the correct pci bus string names and values.

 

 

 Are you sure Kwano7 you don't have any windows, registry or driver installation corruption/ issues ?



-------------------------

gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev.2, core i7 975 3.9ghz (stock voltage), windows 8.1 64-bit, corsair 12gb DDR3 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 RAM, sapphire HD 6990 (stock clocks), coolermaster ultimate 900w PSU.
amd catalyst 14.6 RC2 june23

 06/15/2014 12:22 AM
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Kwano7
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Hello backFireX64

Thanks for the time you are spending here helping people.

Your advices and your experience are useful to a lot of people like me.

Unfortunately, I don't have another motherboard to test, but if I have an occasion, I will try and I will put a feedback here.

On thursday, I sent a report to AMD but I am still waiting for their answer.

"Are you sure Kwano7 you don't have any windows, registry or driver installation corruption/ issues ?"

That's the reason why I have tested on a fresh install of windows 7 sp1 with the latest updates and all the latest drivers of my motherboard and nothing else.

I have installed the catalyst 14.6b1 in the first place (the 13.11b9.4 and 13.11b7 after), but nothing has changed.

In the end: the same pcie bus speed limitation (x16/x1) and the crossfire was still disabled (enabled crossfire with the 13.11b7). Sniff..

I took a look at the properties of the cards, but the variable's names were the same and their values also. O_o

I think that the crossfire problem is a driver problem linked to some other material specifities. Maybe they changed their detection methods in the drivers.

Amd drivers seem to be true black boxes, if someone can do a third-party software to enable crossfirex. I would really apreciate, lol. A bons entendeurs, salut. (A word to the wise.) ^^'

But about the problem of the pcie bus speed, it's not clear at all.



Edited: 06/15/2014 at 12:48 AM by Kwano7
 06/15/2014 03:42 AM
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TempusFugit
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You may be aware, but PCIE link performance can be affected by windows power saving settings and the power demand/settings of the card. Make sure winows power settings are set to High performance  when testing/looking at PCIE connection performance. If possible varify the CPU and PCIE power management settings are set to maximum or off within the advanced settings of the power management plan.

With GPUZ try putting the card on load first (without GPUZ running) and then start GPUZ after the cards are taking >90% load, then check the PCI connection performance/width.



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 06/15/2014 03:55 AM
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backFireX64
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Maybe they changed their detection methods in the drivers.

 

Yes, i'm thinking (or hoping) the same thing.

Unfortunately, i don't have the necessary skills or expertise when it comes to software debugging, yet, so i can only hypothesize.

 

 



-------------------------

gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev.2, core i7 975 3.9ghz (stock voltage), windows 8.1 64-bit, corsair 12gb DDR3 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 RAM, sapphire HD 6990 (stock clocks), coolermaster ultimate 900w PSU.
amd catalyst 14.6 RC2 june23

 06/15/2014 04:06 AM
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backFireX64
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You may be aware, but PCIE link performance can be affected by windows power saving settings and the power demand/settings of the card. Make sure winows power settings are set to High performance  when testing/looking at PCIE connection performance. If possible varify the CPU and PCIE power management settings are set to maximum or off within the advanced settings of the power management plan

 

Very good advice, just not the case here.

 

I looked again, just in case, and "Link State Power Management" under "PCI Express" is set to off. Power plan is set to high performance (active).

 

Thanks TempusFugit for the tip anyway.



-------------------------

gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev.2, core i7 975 3.9ghz (stock voltage), windows 8.1 64-bit, corsair 12gb DDR3 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 RAM, sapphire HD 6990 (stock clocks), coolermaster ultimate 900w PSU.
amd catalyst 14.6 RC2 june23

 06/15/2014 03:18 PM
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Kwano7
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Same thing here.

PCi-express alim

Thanks too TempusFugit.

@backfireX64

I hope AMD will solve at least the crossfire problem with a fix, it would allow me to see a little clearer through it all.

 

 06/15/2014 04:33 PM
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backFireX64
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Originally posted by: Kwano7 Same thing here.

 

PCi-express alim

 

Thanks too TempusFugit.

 

@backfireX64

 

I hope AMD will solve at least the crossfire problem with a fix, it would allow me to see a little clearer through it all.

 

 

 

 

Yea.................. half of my bookmarks are now AMD related in anticipation of the next drivers.

 

I was actually thinking about getting a new R series card, but now it's obvious that i'll postpone it for a while for this and other personal reasons.

The problems concerning game optimization are quite understandable and inevitable, since we regularly have to first wait for patches from the developers. The developers/ publishers have the most responsibility, if you ask me.

What's up with the early access games you ask ? Apparently it's the way to the future. And it's paving the way for AAA titles nowadays as well. Buy the Beta version, play the finished game. After 6 months. If we get lucky, that is.

The problems concerning driver optimization are directly affected by the state of the games.

Affected by "the way it's meant to evolve gaming" or whatever.....

I can get used to all that.

 

The driver software bugs and incompatibility issues, though, is something we can all contribute. Take 5-10-20 min, send a little novel about our issues on AMD DRIVER SUPPORT, get their attention. Maybe find a little more about our own system. Maybe rant for a while.

Only way to get better driver support is to poke them, communicate, give them a little feedback then get some.

Then, come to this forum and help each other.

 

 

Thank you.

Respect.



-------------------------

gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev.2, core i7 975 3.9ghz (stock voltage), windows 8.1 64-bit, corsair 12gb DDR3 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 RAM, sapphire HD 6990 (stock clocks), coolermaster ultimate 900w PSU.
amd catalyst 14.6 RC2 june23

 06/18/2014 07:26 PM
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backFireX64
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Well, after posting back and forth a few times with an AMD Support representative, i got a final response:

 



" What a terrible news! In fact quite a few people feedbacked this issue these days. Thus I think you may need to wait for a period of time. In addition, if you want, you can downgrade your OS to Win7 or 8 then use 13.4 which seems good in crossfire.

Sorry to trouble you a lot and thanks for supporting AMD! "


 

I am really glad that more people are giving AMD the necessary feedback, if it is actually true.

My overall experience with AMD tech support was rather good.

I think i'll wait for the next couple of drivers before downgrading and doing some additional testing.

I despise any unnecessary compromises to my os experience.

For all w7 users with similar problems, if you can try 13.4 driver and post back some results, i would be delighted.

 

Thanks.



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gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev.2, core i7 975 3.9ghz (stock voltage), windows 8.1 64-bit, corsair 12gb DDR3 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 RAM, sapphire HD 6990 (stock clocks), coolermaster ultimate 900w PSU.
amd catalyst 14.6 RC2 june23

 06/19/2014 12:18 AM
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Kwano7
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Hello backFireX64,

I installed the catalyst 13.4 driver to test and give a feedback, but I got the same results than with the 13.11beta7: enabled crossfire, Gpu-z x16-x1 (even after launching the render test), strange x2-x2 in CCC.
I launched the Batman Origins Benchmark (there was not crossfire profile for the game, I put the AFR profile), I got:
min 36
max 138
average: 95
And the charge of the gpu1 was less important than the one of the second gpu like with the catalyst 13.11b7.
As a reminder, I have gotten with the catalyst 13.11b7:
min 38
max 131
average: 93

However, I am more and more convinced that my graphic card is faulty.
As you know, I need to test on another motherboard in order to be absolutely sure.
I will keep you informed.

@++

 

 06/19/2014 11:07 AM
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backFireX64
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Originally posted by: Kwano7 Hello backFireX64, I installed the catalyst 13.4 driver to test and give a feedback, but I got the same results than with the 13.11beta7: enabled crossfire, Gpu-z x16-x1 (even after launching the render test), strange x2-x2 in CCC. I launched the Batman Origins Benchmark (there was not crossfire profile for the game, I put the AFR profile), I got: min 36 max 138 average: 95 And the charge of the gpu1 was less important than the one of the second gpu like with the catalyst 13.11b7. As a reminder, I have gotten with the catalyst 13.11b7: min 38 max 131 average: 93 However, I am more and more convinced that my graphic card is faulty. As you know, I need to test on another motherboard in order to be absolutely sure. I will keep you informed.

 

@++

 

 

 

 

Hi Kwano7.

 

Thanks for the heads-up man.

Really appreciate it.

 

Well, the response i got from amd could be an automated generated message for all i know, but it' not always the same case for all, you know ?

 

I have scheduled to test my card on a friend's pc next week, not able to do sooner though, and will keep this forum informed as well.

 

Thanks again for the valuable feedback.



-------------------------

gigabyte X58A-UD3R rev.2, core i7 975 3.9ghz (stock voltage), windows 8.1 64-bit, corsair 12gb DDR3 1600mhz 7-7-7-20 RAM, sapphire HD 6990 (stock clocks), coolermaster ultimate 900w PSU.
amd catalyst 14.6 RC2 june23

 06/20/2014 12:43 PM
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Kwano7
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Hello backFireX64,

No problem at all!
I hope you will be able to test on another motherboard.

Finally, I have gotten an answer from AMD.

I replied today, trying to explain all the things I have done for resolving the pcie bus speed problem.
For the crossfire problem, I don't feel that the problem was well understood.
In my answer, I detailled the crossfire's problem and quoted the link to the amd's forum with the other people having the same problem with the recent drivers.

We will see.

 

Edit: @backFireX64 - Sorry, You're right. I have not realized that, lol.

For the moment, I focus on the problem of crossfire with the recent drivers.

We will see...



Edited: 06/20/2014 at 02:54 PM by Kwano7
 06/20/2014 01:15 PM
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backFireX64
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Hello Kwano7. How are you doing man ?

 

 

Well, that's an embarassment for the guy !!!

 

Yea, i replied 2 times, Kwano7, to the technician myself, before we would be on the same page...........

 

They told me, for the same issue, that they were aware of the problem and i had pointed to the same forum links that you did as well. Weird .....

 

I have contacted with amd for a 4th time now and they suggested to call my card's manufacturer, which is sapphire. Typical. But, i guess it's not a bad idea either. Maybe flashing a new gpu bios ? We'll see...

 

I believe a live session with an amd technician would be ideal for these problems.

The most hated game publisher company in the planet, EA, uses that service to a good extent. And they seem to have a lot better support if i make the comparison.

 

Anyway, thanks for your feedback and keep in touch man.



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amd catalyst 14.6 RC2 june23

 06/24/2014 06:35 PM
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backFireX64
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Cossfirex is enabled in 14.6 beta RC2 june23 but the maximum bus setting on the 2nd adapter still reports x4 instead of x16.

 

And overdrive settings are shown as it would show for a single gpu card.

No selection between the 2 gpus.



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amd catalyst 14.6 RC2 june23

 06/29/2014 10:41 AM
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Kwano7
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I have just tested the new catalyst drivers, the 14.6b RC2, I've got the same results as with the catalyst 14.6b1.

No crossfire at all, and same pcie bus speeds in gpu-z and CCC: x16 for the first gpu and x1 for the second gpu.

I've got an answer from the AMD's guys:

For the pcie bus speed problem:

" If the same problem happens with another motherboard, then you need to consider updating or re-flashing the vBIOS, or request a replacement from the card manufacturer, since it's most likely that your graphics card has been faulty."

I agree with that. Unfortunately, I need another motherboard to test.

We will see.

For the crossfire problem:

"If the option existed with older driver version but not with newer version, then it could be determined a driver issue, at least it is a driver issue at your end. As such, I would suggest you, actually as you have been aware, to submit an issue report. The information provided would help our driver team to investigate further. As a workaround, you may need to stay 13.9 which is working fine on your system. We're very sorry for any inconvenience this may cause!"

So, it may be a driver issue, linked to some other material specifities, I think.

We will have to wait certainly for new drivers.

 

 06/29/2014 01:58 PM
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backFireX64
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Thanks for the update Kwano7.



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amd catalyst 14.6 RC2 june23

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