Topic Title: Crosffire R9 290s No Performance Increase
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Created On: 07/25/2014 12:42 AM
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 07/25/2014 12:42 AM
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coho333
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So I just recently got my 2 R9 290s and have tried it out on several different games now only to discover when crossfire is enabled there is no performance increase whatsoever. I have tried everything and have no idea what the issue is. One of my concerns is my motherboard, which ony supports PCIe 2.0. Do I need a motherboard that supports PCIe3.0? The other is my processor. I have an AMD FX-8320 3.5Ghz (4.0 Turbo) and I do have the turbo enabled. Is my processor bottlenecking me? I am really desperate guys and I really need help. I don't have a lot of money to throw at things like this and it makes me sick to my stomach to think it was for nothing. Any and all help is very much appreciated.

What I have tried:

Just about every type of game, BF4, Sleeping Dogs, League of Legends, Total War Rome II, none of which gain a performance boost with crossfire enabled. I tried Unigine Heaven Benchmark and got a very significant performance boost, 30FPS avg increase.

I have disabled and re enabled frame pacing, no difference on either mode. I have made sure the games are in full screen, not windowed or borderless. 

I have made sure both GPUs are working properly and monitor them with GPU-z. 

System specs:

Asus Sabertooth 990Fx AM3+ MoBo (PCIe 2.0 version)

8GB DDR3 1600Mhz RAM

2x R9 290 4GB

850w Corsair PSU

AMD FX-8320 3.5Ghz(4.0Ghz Turbo)

 



Edited: 07/25/2014 at 01:05 AM by coho333
 07/25/2014 01:08 AM
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black_zion
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Are you playing at a resolution of 2560x1600 or higher? If not, then you're not going to notice any increase.

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ASUS Sabertooth 990FX/Gen3 R2, FX-8350 w/ Corsair H60, 8 GiB G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133, XFX HD 7970 Ghz, 512GB Vertex 4, 256GB Vector, 240GB Agility 3, Creative X-Fi Titanium w/ Creative Gigaworks S750, SeaSonic X750, HP ZR2440w, Win 7 Ultimate x64
 07/25/2014 01:27 AM
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coho333
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No I am playing at 1920x1080, do I need to be playing at a higher resolution to get more frames? I mostly wanted this for a 144hz monitor. So would I have to get a 2560x1600 monitor then? 

Also, my cards are in the first and third PCIe slots, both of which are x16 but it says PCIe 2.0 x16 slots: 3 (dual x16 or x16, x8, x8). So does that mean two at a time can be x16 or when two cards are being used the first two slots are x16 and the third and fourth ones are x8?

Edit: I just made an eyefinity group with my two monitors  and tried running BF4 at 3200x900 and the performance was worse with crossfire enabled.



Edited: 07/25/2014 at 01:50 AM by coho333
 07/25/2014 11:09 AM
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Earnhardt
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Then you have done something wrong or have something setup wrong,On BF3 and BF4 I get almost 100% scaling,And thats with my current setup and my prev cards(6950,7870). But remember,Not all games will support/use crossfire.

Also,Depending on where you look.Some sites report needing anywhere from a 500-750W PSU for 1 card and a 850-1000W PSU for crossfire of these cards.Depending on who you believe.So that is another possible Issue.

And yes he should BZ,I play at 1920 X 1200 and get great scaling.Even when I used my 6950 Dirt 3's in crossfire and eyefinity(5760 X 1200) It (BF3) was almost 100% always.

1920X1200 Ultra,Mantle enabled

crossfire enabled 100-120 fps Ultra

crossfire disabled  50-60 fps Ultra.



-------------------------

AMD Phenom II 1100t @4.0Ghz /Asus sabertooth 990fx/2x Gigabyte 3G 7950's in crossfire/500G samsung 840 ssd/16G G-Skill Ripjaw 1600/2-samsung 24" monitors 1920X1200/Corsair AX1200W psu/W7 pro 64,G19 keyboard,Roccat kone pure mouse,Cooler master HAF932,Corsair H100i water cooler,Zalman ram cooler.Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion Series,Logitech Z5500 speakers,Roccat Kave 5.1 headset.



Edited: 07/25/2014 at 11:25 AM by Earnhardt
 07/25/2014 11:55 AM
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black_zion
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Yes, but as you know it doesn't matter if you get 60fps or 60000000000fps, if your monitor only can display 60, then there's no effective increase.

-------------------------
ASUS Sabertooth 990FX/Gen3 R2, FX-8350 w/ Corsair H60, 8 GiB G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133, XFX HD 7970 Ghz, 512GB Vertex 4, 256GB Vector, 240GB Agility 3, Creative X-Fi Titanium w/ Creative Gigaworks S750, SeaSonic X750, HP ZR2440w, Win 7 Ultimate x64
 07/25/2014 12:01 PM
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coho333
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My monitor is only 60hz but I was wanting the games to reach 120+FPS so I could get a 144hz monitor in the near future but they bearly break 90 with or without crossfire on.

Is it possible that crossfire capabilities are not working properly because of the PCIe 2.0? Since these cards dont require a bridge that is just about the only thing I can think of.

Edit: I noticed whenever I was downloading something it was taking up a significant amount of processor power and it cause my frames to drop by about 40 on average. Is this a sign of CPU bottleneck?

 

Edit: Here are some GPUZ screenshots:

Crossfire turned off in BF4

 

Crossfire Enabled in bf4

 

GPUz Idle with crossfire enabled:



Edited: 07/25/2014 at 12:57 PM by coho333
 07/25/2014 03:28 PM
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coho333
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I also just tested BF4 and kept an eye on CPU usage and it rarely ever went above 70%. If that eliminates CPU bottleneck then the only two options left are my PSU not being enough or my motherboard not supporting PCIe 3.0 bottlenecking the crossfire. But if I havent had a power issue yet could my PSU still be an issue?

 

 07/25/2014 05:29 PM
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coho333
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Well I have discovered that AMD overdrive and also my device manager do not detect my second card even tho CCC and GPU-Z does.

 07/25/2014 07:14 PM
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coho333
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Ok so I actually did get both of the devices to show on device manager however still not on AMD overdrive. Unless I disable crossfire and have a monitor plugged into each card seperately. Then Overdrive shows I have two cards plugged in. Then when I turn on crossfire, overdrive shows only one GPU. I am so confused. I have tried both cards and both PCIe x16 slots seperately and all are working fine.

 07/25/2014 07:47 PM
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Earnhardt
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Originally posted by: black_zion Yes, but as you know it doesn't matter if you get 60fps or 60000000000fps, if your monitor only can display 60, then there's no effective increase.

Found a really good Article (which I will spend more time reading later) Which I think everyone should read.

http://www.tweakguides.com/Graphics_1.html

 

Putting in the link would probably help



-------------------------

AMD Phenom II 1100t @4.0Ghz /Asus sabertooth 990fx/2x Gigabyte 3G 7950's in crossfire/500G samsung 840 ssd/16G G-Skill Ripjaw 1600/2-samsung 24" monitors 1920X1200/Corsair AX1200W psu/W7 pro 64,G19 keyboard,Roccat kone pure mouse,Cooler master HAF932,Corsair H100i water cooler,Zalman ram cooler.Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion Series,Logitech Z5500 speakers,Roccat Kave 5.1 headset.



Edited: 07/26/2014 at 12:05 AM by Earnhardt
 07/26/2014 04:13 AM
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HoneyBadger84
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Did you reinstall drivers completely when adding the second card? Try to ignore statements like this:

Originally posted by: black_zion Are you playing at a resolution of 2560x1600 or higher? If not, then you're not going to notice any increase.

That is an utterly ridiculous and totally wrong statement. Especially in games like BF4 he should be getting near 100% scaling, as most people do, at 1080p.

 

Edit: your PSU is 100% not the issue.  Reinstall drivers with a cleaning using DDU after uninstall, see if that helps.



-------------------------

CPU: i7 3930k @ 4.6GHz 1.29V (Corsair H110-cooled) ~ Motherboard: Asus RoG Rampage IV Extreme 
RAM: G.Skill Sniper Gaming Series (4x4GB 2133MHz, CL9) ~ PSU: Corsair AX 1200W ~ Case: Enermax Fulmo GT
GPUs: 3x HIS R9 290X Reference (Core) Editions in TriFire, Max Load Temps: 71C/70C/71C during OC testing :-P

 07/26/2014 11:08 AM
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black_zion
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If you have to ignore statements like that then you need to adjust your way of thinking. From Earnhardt's article:

So to come back to the question of how many FPS is enough, in my experience, and for most practical purposes, a framerate of around 60 FPS is completely sufficient as a maximum FPS.


If you have a 60hz monitor, then 60fps is all you need. Also, take the following graph from TweakTown, written in January:



And as I said before:

Yes, but as you know it doesn't matter if you get 60fps or 60000000000fps, if your monitor only can display 60, then there's no effective increase.


-------------------------
ASUS Sabertooth 990FX/Gen3 R2, FX-8350 w/ Corsair H60, 8 GiB G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133, XFX HD 7970 Ghz, 512GB Vertex 4, 256GB Vector, 240GB Agility 3, Creative X-Fi Titanium w/ Creative Gigaworks S750, SeaSonic X750, HP ZR2440w, Win 7 Ultimate x64
 07/26/2014 12:30 PM
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Earnhardt
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Originally posted by: HoneyBadger84

 

 

 

Edit: your PSU is 100% not the issue.  Reinstall drivers with a cleaning using DDU after uninstall, see if that helps.

 

Though It should be unlikely,You can no way rule out 100% that It is not the Issue as many Sites that sell the 290's and review sites recommend up to 1000W PSU's for these cards.

 



-------------------------

AMD Phenom II 1100t @4.0Ghz /Asus sabertooth 990fx/2x Gigabyte 3G 7950's in crossfire/500G samsung 840 ssd/16G G-Skill Ripjaw 1600/2-samsung 24" monitors 1920X1200/Corsair AX1200W psu/W7 pro 64,G19 keyboard,Roccat kone pure mouse,Cooler master HAF932,Corsair H100i water cooler,Zalman ram cooler.Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion Series,Logitech Z5500 speakers,Roccat Kave 5.1 headset.

 07/26/2014 01:13 PM
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black_zion
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A 290 has a TDP of 275w, the FX-8320 comes in at 125w, and the rest of the system 50w-100w depending on cooling. Is running the 850w PSU close to the limit but a PSU issue would be more apt to manifest as BSODs, overheating, or the computer shutting off suddenly due to overcurrent protection. It's probably not the cause in this case, but it will need to be changed soon.

-------------------------
ASUS Sabertooth 990FX/Gen3 R2, FX-8350 w/ Corsair H60, 8 GiB G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133, XFX HD 7970 Ghz, 512GB Vertex 4, 256GB Vector, 240GB Agility 3, Creative X-Fi Titanium w/ Creative Gigaworks S750, SeaSonic X750, HP ZR2440w, Win 7 Ultimate x64
 07/26/2014 02:45 PM
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HoneyBadger84
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Originally posted by: Earnhardt
Originally posted by: HoneyBadger84

Edit: your PSU is 100% not the issue.  Reinstall drivers with a cleaning using DDU after uninstall, see if that helps.

Though It should be unlikely,You can no way rule out 100% that It is not the Issue as many Sites that sell the 290's and review sites recommend up to 1000W PSU's for these cards.

Because they are counting on most people buying POS 1000W PSUs instead of quality brands.  The PSU he has is one of the better 850W units available on the market, so unless the PSU itself is a faulty unit it is NOT the problem.  That is what I meant, which is why I said as long as it has the amperage he needs, he is fine power wise.

 

I do not understand why anyone would say "you're not going to see any performance improvements below 2560x1600" though.  It's clearly evident in pretty much every crossfire review ever written that there are a LARGE number of games that see great Crossfire scaling at 1080p which is exactly the resolution we're talking about here.  Crysis 3 for instance has not excellent, but still good, scaling, at ~53FPS on one card vs ~75FPS on 2, according to reviews.  Then you have games like BF4 which gets in the mid 60s FPS single card vs ~120FPS crossfired, at 1080p.  That opinion is just plain wrong.

Just an FYI, a 290X crossfire system only draws about 780W with "normal/extreme gaming draw" according to HardOCP's review: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/11/01/amd_radeon_r9_290x_crossfire_video_card_review/9#.U9P36PldXjQ

 

So while yes, a 850W PSU isn't ideal, it is capable of handling the maximum draw as long as he's not OCing the crap out of his video cards, which is what would create the most additional draw out of anything in the system.  Also, keep in mind, again, Corsair doesn't make skimpy PSUs once you get above the 750W range, their quality is top notch, it's not going to break down from being under heavy load for hours on end, that's what they're built to do.

 

Edit 2: and another one for good measure clearly stating 850W of good quality PSU is enough: http://www.legitreviews.com/xfx-radeon-r9-290-crossfire-video-card-review-at-4k-ultra-hd_139418/11



-------------------------

CPU: i7 3930k @ 4.6GHz 1.29V (Corsair H110-cooled) ~ Motherboard: Asus RoG Rampage IV Extreme 
RAM: G.Skill Sniper Gaming Series (4x4GB 2133MHz, CL9) ~ PSU: Corsair AX 1200W ~ Case: Enermax Fulmo GT
GPUs: 3x HIS R9 290X Reference (Core) Editions in TriFire, Max Load Temps: 71C/70C/71C during OC testing :-P



Edited: 07/26/2014 at 02:52 PM by HoneyBadger84
 07/26/2014 03:08 PM
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black_zion
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Never forget power supplies lose ~2% maximum power per year capability.

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ASUS Sabertooth 990FX/Gen3 R2, FX-8350 w/ Corsair H60, 8 GiB G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133, XFX HD 7970 Ghz, 512GB Vertex 4, 256GB Vector, 240GB Agility 3, Creative X-Fi Titanium w/ Creative Gigaworks S750, SeaSonic X750, HP ZR2440w, Win 7 Ultimate x64
 07/28/2014 11:12 AM
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Earnhardt
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Originally posted by: HoneyBadger84

 

Because they are counting on most people buying POS 1000W PSUs instead of quality brands.  

 

Now That Is a ridiculous statement.



-------------------------

AMD Phenom II 1100t @4.0Ghz /Asus sabertooth 990fx/2x Gigabyte 3G 7950's in crossfire/500G samsung 840 ssd/16G G-Skill Ripjaw 1600/2-samsung 24" monitors 1920X1200/Corsair AX1200W psu/W7 pro 64,G19 keyboard,Roccat kone pure mouse,Cooler master HAF932,Corsair H100i water cooler,Zalman ram cooler.Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion Series,Logitech Z5500 speakers,Roccat Kave 5.1 headset.

 07/28/2014 03:18 PM
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black_zion
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I bet he meant to phrase it "They're expecting most people to buy POS 1000w PSUs instead of quality brands." Apevia, Rosewill, AZZA, among others, all make "1000w" PSUs. I don't know about you but I'd be scared to death to run a unit like This APEVIA one in my tower. And even This XION unit which has a total capacity of 1920w spread across 6 rails (overloading hazard), with a 900w limit (90% of total rating, signal flare for CRAP), on a supposed 1000w PSU.

-------------------------
ASUS Sabertooth 990FX/Gen3 R2, FX-8350 w/ Corsair H60, 8 GiB G.SKILL RipjawsX DDR3-2133, XFX HD 7970 Ghz, 512GB Vertex 4, 256GB Vector, 240GB Agility 3, Creative X-Fi Titanium w/ Creative Gigaworks S750, SeaSonic X750, HP ZR2440w, Win 7 Ultimate x64
 07/29/2014 12:34 AM
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coho333
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Well I took a leap of faith and sold my motherboard, CPU, PSU, and some other items I have and bought a bigger PSU, a PCIe 3.0 Intel board and got a 4790k i7. It works perfectly fine now but I am pretty confident the issue was either a CPU bottleneck or the PCIe slots only being 2.0.

 07/29/2014 03:26 AM
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Thanny
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I didn't see this thread earlier, but 70% CPU usage from a game on an 8-core processor (4-core for floating point) sounds very much like a CPU bottleneck.

 

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